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 Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon? 
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
VERY VERY well said M2.



The Legend wrote:
but its much easier to take a garbage team and improve it.

If its SOO easy, why couldnt Millen do it??? He had a garbage team every year but never once was it ever better the next year.

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September 6th, 2012, 1:24 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
kdsberman wrote:
VERY VERY well said M2.

The Legend wrote:
but its much easier to take a garbage team and improve it.

If its SOO easy, why couldnt Millen do it??? He had a garbage team every year but never once was it ever better the next year.


Like I said KDS - Matt Millen literally ran this team as a part-time job. He lived and stayed in Penn while he was the GM of the Lions. You can't do that, flat out.

The Bills are (or were) managed by a management firm in Grosse Pointe, MI. Ever notice how they perpetually suck? IMO, it's not a job that can be done off-site, period.


Shotty wrote:
Mayhew has managed this team for 3 years. Are you expecting a 5 star roster this fast? The 49ers needed 6 turnovers just to be IN POSITION to have a game-winning drive, which they completed. They allowed Brees to throw for 462 yards against their damn defense. The Saints didn't destroy us. We were in position to go up 21-7 if the refs didn't blow the whistle, and the Saints took until the 4th quarter to pull away. That was also with Houston and Delmas playing with hurt bum knees and 3 dropped picks. That game could've been ours if we capitalized on all of the Saints which we didn't. IMO, Avril will be gone next offseason and Willie Young will replace him. KVB will remain our RE until a replacement (likely from the draft or Lawrence Jackson) comes in. Think about it like this. WY won't start this year. If Avril has a great season with 15+ sacks and some forced fumbles, he'll probably get big money. If he doesn't have a very good season, which I think he won't, he'll be cut and WY will step in. Now, the hustle in this is that WY can't demand a huge contract since he probably won't get much playing time as a backup so he won't have proved himself. We can sign WY to a contract worth $2-5 mill a year and pick up some true talent in FA with the remaining money. Same with Raiola. Yes, he signed a 4 year, $20 million contract, but that was because no one was there to step in at the time. When this contract is over, I'd be shocked if he's resigned. This team is built for the future. So far, we have our QB, WRs, TE, T, DTs, and DEs of the future, and possibly our LBs and CB if T. Lewis/T. Whitehead continue solid progression and Dwight Bentley continues progressing fast. I think that by next season's start we'll have new starters at strong safety and outside linebacker to replace Levy and Speivey/Coleman, and by the way, I've never liked Levy much either.

IMHO, the Lions just don't want to cut vets with ridiculous contract, like Raiola, Burleson, and Corey Williams because the base players are so young and need some leadership for a few more years, and the best part is Raiola can be easily replaced for a cheap contract, Burleson can easily be replaced as soon as next season by Titus Young, and Corey Williams can be replaced by Nick Fairley. This team may not be great now, but once the Lions have some cap freedom after cutting some of these veteran vocal leaders, I'm sure Mayhew will make the moves to bring them to greatness.


After three offseasons you own the team, regardless as to how you got it. Good vets (Sims, Williams, etc.) are generally available for later round draft picks if you can afford them. Teams need to cut them for cap reasons all the time. Three off-seasons is nearly a full side of the ball with 1st to 3rd round draft picks, add in the talent we had and the FAs and trades, and Mayhew owns this squad. Want more proof that it should only take three years? We're virtually capped out. We really can't AFFORD more talent. Acquiring talent is easy, keeping it and managing it is a different story, and that's what Mayhew is about to be faced with, and IMO, that's what he screwed the pooch with regarding Avril. A team like New England would have let Avril walk, IMO.

Schotty, Raiola never should have been resigned. His 5 million per year is utterly ridiculous for his performance. We should have drafted Alex Mack and been done with it. You can argue not wanting to go with younger talent if you want to, but what about reasonable FAs? What about replacing Nate for Manningham, who is making about 1/2 of what Nate is making? Do you really think that Nate is 2xs as good as Manningham? I don't. In fact, if anything I'd say that Manningham is BETTER than Nate. What about letting Cory Williams walk and giving some of OUR seasoned, proven guys, like SLH more playing time? How about using that money to sign Tracy Porter (seasoned, somewhat proven vet that would clearly be a starting CB for us)? Or Michael Bush? How about NOT relying on guys that have proven themselves unrelaible (Best)? That was nothing short of moronic to go into this season relying on Best being healthy, let alone STAYING healthy. Stupid, just plain stupid. And no one can say I'm using hindsight to justify my position. I put everything out there months in advance as to what I would do differently.


Shotty wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
And to comment on what Harbaugh did in his short tenure with the Niners compared to Mayhew...Dont you remember when Mayhew took over they had Calvin Johnson.....THATS IT. At least Harbaugh had some players to work with.


That's an understatement. He had a defense led by the best defensive player in the league and good players at every single defensive position, and on offense a top 10 RB and top 5 TE to build around. Wish our coaching staff could've worked with that team.

The thing is that Mayhew is slowly building a great roster. He's putting everything into place by getting players who can have solid roles or be, at the very least, solid backups. Last offseason before any signings or the draft, ILB, OLB, CB, G, and T. We have 2 solid replacements in Tulloch and Durant, Dwight Bentley looks to be our CB of the future, and Riley Reiff will be either our G or T of the future because of the versatility he brings. Once he starts and a few more changes are made across the offensive line, it'll be solid at run and pass blocking. Getting players to immediately or later fill 4 of the 5 needed positions is pretty good if you ask me.


You know what's hilarious about this? Go back and research ON THIS SITE. I said that SF was much better and had tons more talent than us two years ago, and VIRTUALLY EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD DISAGREED. Time and time again its amazing how much smarter I look two years out. People on here stated that SF had NO Qb and we had Stafford, they called the RB situation a "push" debated the OL with me, and said the only person SF had on D was Patrick Willis. Remember, when Harbaugh was hired Vernon Davis was a malcontent that wasn't sure if he was ever going to play again for SF. He was rumored to be had on the cheap, but no one really wanted him. I thought we should offer something for him, and people called me crazy and called him a cancer, so which is it? Is he a football God, or a horrible, horrible man?



allenslions wrote:
your whole argument starts off with a false statement .the 49ers were 8-8 prior to there 6-10 season.but just like a lawyer you change the facts to prove your argument.they also feast on an amazingly weak division.so dont try to compare what they have done to what we have got done in the last few years.


Sue me... They were 3-13 somewhere in there... I do this by memory for the most part, and I know Singletary was horrible given the talent he had, but everyone disagreed with me.

Weak division? Yea, cause Chicago and Minny are world beaters, right? The bottom line is we failed to beat virtually any team with a winning record (did we win one game against a team with a winning record?). IMO fans are going to get a wakeup call this year. I don't think they're going to be horrible, but I don't think we will do as well. I think 9 wins.



m2karateman wrote:
wjb...my whole post was driven by this statement that you made:

Quote:
Mayhew may have worked some good trades for us, but IMO is drafting hasn't been great at all, and good teams draft well. I'm also not impressed with our scouting department.


So, yes, you give Mayhew credit for some good trades.....but in my opinion that's simply not enough credit. He has brokered some GREAT deals, solidifying the left guard position, our top cover corner spot, a starting DT spot and a capable backup QB spot with chump change draft picks. He moved Roy Williams out of here for a kings ransom of picks. Those alone are more than most GMs do in a decade. He did all that in less than two years.


I've said before M2, it's not hard to get some decent vets that can play for late round draft picks. What did Chicago just pick up their #1 Wr for what? Two 3rd rounders? And we "stole" Cory Williams, a backup DT? Are you kidding me? It's not hard to find a team that will trade a cap casualty or a player that doesn't fit their system for a later round draft pick. Teams do it all the time.


m2karateman wrote:
He inherited a roster that was a joke, that most NCAA DI college teams would have blown away. In three seasons he added enough talent to take us to the playoffs. You want to claim the team accomplished more last season than they are really capable of. I say that's horseshit. Teams accomplish what they accomplish.


Like I said, did we have one win against a team with a winning record? I could be wrong, but I don't think we did. Sure, we beat the teams we should have beat, and that's saying something, because it wasn't always that way here, but we're not as good as people on here think we are, period.


m2karateman wrote:
As for the comparison to the 49ers, even you must know that was a really bad comparison. The only thing keeping the 49ers from being a better team was that Mike Singletary isn't an NFL head coach. His constant changes to his assistants, his mishandling of players and game situations kept a pretty decent roster of players from accomplishing more. Harbaugh, first off, is NOT a GM and he didn't build that roster. He got a bunch of accomplished talent when he took that job, and one of the reasons he took the SF job was because of the talent on the roster. He knew he wouldn't have to do much to be able to win a weak division. Going 13-3 is a division with Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis is about the same as going 10-6 in a division with the Packers and Bears, if you ask me. Put the Lions in the NFC West and that's about a guaranteed five wins in the division for them.


Again, go back and look. I said before the SF was good and I predicted they would be a great team under Harbaugh and people on here kicked and screamed. NOT BETTER THAN THEIR BELOVED LIONS!!! NO WAY WJB!!!


m2karateman wrote:
It all comes down to this....any of us can second guess picks after the fact. I do it all the time. There have been times when I've been right, and times when I've been wrong. Same goes for you. The difference is, our guesses have no effect on the roster, and nobody can criticize us because nobody remembers our guesses.


I second guess picks BEFORE they fail, not after, and you know it. Hahaha... maybe no one remembers your second guesses, I get them thrown in my face all the time.


m2karateman wrote:
Criticizing the scouting department....for what?


For drafting players like Javid Best and Brandon Pettigrew when we could have had Alex Mack and a host of other players for Best. I expect Mayhew to have a total approach to the team. I don't think he has handled the OL well. I think he's severely mismanaged the OL. The reason I'm so pissed about the Alex Mack pick isn't just because Alex Mack is a great OC, it's because we're over-paying an aging Dominic Raiola and it's hurting the team, our OL is old, we need replacements for virtually everyone on the OL (Backus, Raiola, and Sims are all over 30, Peterman sucks, and Cherilus sucks). Reiff MAY replace ONE of those guys, but what about the other four positions? IMO that's just flat out irresponsible, and we had a 23 year old pro-bowl guard sitting there when took a TE. We could have signed or drafted a TE later. I understand needing to get a TE, but that's what the damn third round is for.

m2karateman wrote:
I guess my question would be...exactly what more do you expect Mayhew to do in such a short period of time, starting with such a lousy roster and handicapped by deals given to players before he was hired (such as Raiola)?


I already said what I would have done with Raiola.

m2karateman wrote:
You want to harp on Mayhew for the handling of the Cliff Avril situation. I'm not a big fan of what happened either. But tell me, what was he supposed to have done? NOT tag him and let him walk for nothing? A fair offer was made, and Avril rejected it. You can't broker a deal for a player not under contract.


My contention is that he should have saw it coming. I know I did, and once again, I WAS CALLED CRAZY FOR IT. I told everyone what kind of contract he was going to demand and everyone said "no, not Cliff, $6.5-8.5 will get it done. Not Cliff, he likes us..." Yea freakin' right... Stevie Wonder should have seen that coming, and again, no hind sight here buddy... All foresight...

m2karateman wrote:
And you keep bringing up the Michael Bush and Tracy Porter thing as if they were clamoring to come here, but we simply didn't have the money to pay them. There's no guarantee that either of them would have signed a deal here. If they had let Avril walk, and then didn't get Porter/Bush, you would have complained about how Mayhew didn't do enough to get them here, or whatever.

Face it wjb....and I've said this before...if things aren't done EXACTLY the way you feel they should be done, you complain endlessly. UK Lion is right, you are a glass half empty, and what's in there is poison kind of guy. There are times where what you would have wanted likely would garner better results. But all of us can say that about a pick here or a FA signing there.

The end result is that the Lions went to the playoffs, with a relatively young roster, and they have the possibility of doing the same again. He's accomplished a ton of good in his short tenure here. If the Lions don't make the playoffs this season, so be it. I think they have a legitimate shot at it. That's far better than knowing they have no shot at it whatsoever.


I would agree with you IF either Porter or Bush went to a better situation. Neither did. Bush went to Chicago to be their 2nd/3rd string RB, Porter went to the Broncos for $2.5 million dollars. The two of them signed for a combined $5 million and we would have had $10 to spend, coming off of a playoff year.

But you're wrong about me complaining if they don't do things "my way." I didn't want Stafford, and I was adamant about it. Now he's one of my favorite Lions. I have no problem admitting my faults, but I do get pissed when I say how I would handle a situation, we handle it differently and it blows up right in our damn faces.


September 6th, 2012, 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Chicago is a playoff team when healthy...your getting annoyed, so i wont hold it against you, but we beat them BEFORE Forte and Culter got hurt. Denver made the playoffs. Dallas was a SMIDGE away from beating the SB champions and taking their playoff spot, with Oakland and San DIego being those bubble type teams who are prolly around an 8-8 team.


your argument about who should of won and lost and who did is irrelevant. we DID win...AND we won against some pretty decent teams. we're not a SB team yet, but the only one who seems upset by that so far is you.

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September 6th, 2012, 4:37 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Avril aside, your argument for releasing vets that make more than comparable talent elsewhere fails to take into account how much they would count against the cap even if released. The greater shift to guaranteed money and the restructuring basically wouldn't give us much cap room to sign someone cheaper. Dom and Nate fall under those categories. Nate did it when we didn't have any other options at receiver, and it wouldn't be worth it to cut him now. It would free up nothing.

You also have to realize that after the 0-16 seasons, people weren't lining up to come to Detroit. There were quite a few players that publicly scoffed at playing in Detroit. You still had Cedric Benson saying it this year. We have no clue if Porter was or wasn't called. I've seen undrafted free agents tweet negatively about having to deal with the weather, so you think vets with other options don't take that into consideration? It isn't Mayhew's fault by default.

As for the 49ers two years ago... Vernon Davis turned it around because of Singletary. Prior to that he was potential. When you talk about a player that has potential means he didn't reach it yet, or might never reach it. Singletary was a horrible head coach, but he was a great player motivator. He helped some of those players on their way to reaching their potential, but when Harbaugh took over, no one would expect everything to click. Alex Smith played mistake free football for the first time in 7 seasons. He got lucky. The team got lucky with a +28 turnover ratio. They have a decent team, but you can't place them in the high powered offense category. They won low scoring games. Stafford threw for more touchdowns than (41) their entire team scored including INT's, Punt and kickoff returns (36). I'm not saying they are a bad team by any means, but they aren't a better all around team then we are. They have just as many question marks and questions surrounding them.


September 6th, 2012, 5:33 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
njroar wrote:
Avril aside, your argument for releasing vets that make more than comparable talent elsewhere fails to take into account how much they would count against the cap even if released. The greater shift to guaranteed money and the restructuring basically wouldn't give us much cap room to sign someone cheaper. Dom and Nate fall under those categories. Nate did it when we didn't have any other options at receiver, and it wouldn't be worth it to cut him now. It would free up nothing.

You also have to realize that after the 0-16 seasons, people weren't lining up to come to Detroit. There were quite a few players that publicly scoffed at playing in Detroit. You still had Cedric Benson saying it this year. We have no clue if Porter was or wasn't called. I've seen undrafted free agents tweet negatively about having to deal with the weather, so you think vets with other options don't take that into consideration? It isn't Mayhew's fault by default.

As for the 49ers two years ago... Vernon Davis turned it around because of Singletary. Prior to that he was potential. When you talk about a player that has potential means he didn't reach it yet, or might never reach it. Singletary was a horrible head coach, but he was a great player motivator. He helped some of those players on their way to reaching their potential, but when Harbaugh took over, no one would expect everything to click. Alex Smith played mistake free football for the first time in 7 seasons. He got lucky. The team got lucky with a +28 turnover ratio. They have a decent team, but you can't place them in the high powered offense category. They won low scoring games. Stafford threw for more touchdowns than (41) their entire team scored including INT's, Punt and kickoff returns (36). I'm not saying they are a bad team by any means, but they aren't a better all around team then we are. They have just as many question marks and questions surrounding them.



But SF does have a SIGNIFICANTLY better D. a great D makes you a playoff contender, just ask Chicago and their mediocre Offense (through last year)

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September 6th, 2012, 5:53 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
i would just like to say that Tracy Porter is not that good. he had the great play in the SB and Favre threw it right to him in th NFCC. but since then, what has he done other than get put on marshawn Lynch's highlight tape? if you look at what he did last season and the season before, Jacob Lacey probably is a better CB. i know its a little off topic but i cant believe the love some have for that guy. i would take any CB on our roster over Tracy Porter. he will get exposed badly with Denver

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September 6th, 2012, 10:46 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Here's a reason to love Mayhew's approach: he doesn't spend $4M on a sub-par nickel corner when he could get a similar player (Lacey) for $1.3M.

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September 7th, 2012, 12:49 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I would agree with you IF either Porter or Bush went to a better situation. Neither did. Bush went to Chicago to be their 2nd/3rd string RB, Porter went to the Broncos for $2.5 million dollars. The two of them signed for a combined $5 million and we would have had $10 to spend, coming off of a playoff year.


Porter signed for $4M, one year. Bush signed a 4-yr, $14M deal. If you look at the details, the value is about $3.8M/year, assuming he's on the 2013 roster. The two combined would have cost just under $8M this year.

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September 7th, 2012, 1:01 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
To those above, COMPLETELY agree. Signing Bush, IMO, would've been a stupid move. We might already have someone just as good in Leshoure, so what's the point of paying 3-4 million a year for him? And Porter is a completely average CB. Seen him get burned so much it's not even funny.

It's just unreal how many players we have now who are getting paid a lot of money and can be easily replaced.

Cliff Avril: $10.6 million / Willie Young
Corey Williams: $4.9 million / SLH
Jeff Backus: $7.9 million or Stephen Peterman: $2.725 million / Riley Reiff
Nate Burleson: around $13 million through 2013/2014 / Titus Young
Dominic Raiola: $5 million / Jason Fox, and if not I'm sure a FA center could be found for the same or a lower price who's just as good if not better than Raiola.

That's probably around $25 million in possible cap space. Just imagine if all of them became the starters next offseason and we had $20 mill+ to blow.

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September 7th, 2012, 2:58 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Shotty wrote:
To those above, COMPLETELY agree. Signing Bush, IMO, would've been a stupid move. We might already have someone just as good in Leshoure, so what's the point of paying 3-4 million a year for him? And Porter is a completely average CB. Seen him get burned so much it's not even funny.

It's just unreal how many players we have now who are getting paid a lot of money and can be easily replaced.

Cliff Avril: $10.6 million / Willie Young
Corey Williams: $4.9 million / SLH
Jeff Backus: $7.9 million or Stephen Peterman: $2.725 million / Riley Reiff
Nate Burleson: around $13 million through 2013/2014 / Titus Young
Dominic Raiola: $5 million / Jason Fox, and if not I'm sure a FA center could be found for the same or a lower price who's just as good if not better than Raiola.

That's probably around $25 million in possible cap space. Just imagine if all of them became the starters next offseason and we had $20 mill+ to blow.


I think we already have a replacement for Raiola on the PS, and that's Rodney Austin. He played extremely well during pre-season, and he could easily have been kept on the regular roster as a backup guard/center along with Dylan Gandy. Austin was much better than Dan Gerberry, and I thought he played better than Gandy was well.

As for all the other names you bring up, it's excellent information and spot on. Let us not forget that KVB is another person who is going to be a pretty decent cap hit next year, and we have his eventual replacement on the roster in the form of either Lawrence Jackson or Ronnell Lewis.

Good teams keep elite players, but when good players over price themselves they are either traded or given their release. The Lions will have to start doing that and trust that they can draft or sign a suitable replacement at a much more affordable price.

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September 8th, 2012, 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
m2karateman wrote:
Shotty wrote:
To those above, COMPLETELY agree. Signing Bush, IMO, would've been a stupid move. We might already have someone just as good in Leshoure, so what's the point of paying 3-4 million a year for him? And Porter is a completely average CB. Seen him get burned so much it's not even funny.

It's just unreal how many players we have now who are getting paid a lot of money and can be easily replaced.

Cliff Avril: $10.6 million / Willie Young
Corey Williams: $4.9 million / SLH
Jeff Backus: $7.9 million or Stephen Peterman: $2.725 million / Riley Reiff
Nate Burleson: around $13 million through 2013/2014 / Titus Young
Dominic Raiola: $5 million / Jason Fox, and if not I'm sure a FA center could be found for the same or a lower price who's just as good if not better than Raiola.

That's probably around $25 million in possible cap space. Just imagine if all of them became the starters next offseason and we had $20 mill+ to blow.


I think we already have a replacement for Raiola on the PS, and that's Rodney Austin. He played extremely well during pre-season, and he could easily have been kept on the regular roster as a backup guard/center along with Dylan Gandy. Austin was much better than Dan Gerberry, and I thought he played better than Gandy was well.

As for all the other names you bring up, it's excellent information and spot on. Let us not forget that KVB is another person who is going to be a pretty decent cap hit next year, and we have his eventual replacement on the roster in the form of either Lawrence Jackson or Ronnell Lewis.

Good teams keep elite players, but when good players over price themselves they are either traded or given their release. The Lions will have to start doing that and trust that they can draft or sign a suitable replacement at a much more affordable price.


Yeah, forgot about KVB. I honestly didn't list him because I think his leadership is very valuable. He was said to be the one to lift Nick Fairley out of the hole he got himself into with the arrests. If he is released or cut, I just hope another player just like him (veteran, occasional playmaker, great team mate) is signed.

Whether all of these replacements happen in 1 or 3 off-seasons, there will be at least 1 season where we have a super-team loaded with young replacements and top FAs in all of our current holes. That's why Mayhew's drafting is so invaluable.

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September 8th, 2012, 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
kdsberman wrote:
VERY VERY well said M2.



The Legend wrote:
but its much easier to take a garbage team and improve it.

If its SOO easy, why couldnt Millen do it??? He had a garbage team every year but never once was it ever better the next year.


Millen was terrible and drafted injured and redflagged players in any round. he would get offerred overwhelming deals and take non impact 1st rd players like Ernie Sims instead. He would start rolling the dice on his sleepers in round 2 that were likely available well into rounds 5. 6, 7. He would go on the radio and chat with people out of football about his cowardly team. He would tell his coach that he was keeping a former player and then cut that player 2-3 days later even after the coach already told the player they were keeping him. He would then get smoked by that player and call him a derogatory name then claim his intent was to complement that player. He would tell his coach he s keeping him, then fire him. He would not follow league rules in hiring processes. He would let his coaches bring in veteran QBs and then overrule there personnel decisions. He consistently ignored his scouts. Honestly should I go on? Really I could but Im starting to break into a fever and chills thinking about it... The biggest thing that shows you how bad Millen was is that the only real change in upper management from pre Millen to post Millen was removing Millen and promoting Mayhew. The scouting dept is largely the same. They did add James Harris I suppose, but we dont hear about him too much. Maybe allenslions can fill you in on how bad Millen era really was. your last sentence makes little sense and all you need to do is look at the records and note the fluctuations.

finally, do you honestly disagree with the point of my post? i'm not belittling what mayhew has done so far but his most difficult tasks with the lions still lie in the future.


September 9th, 2012, 1:06 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Shotty wrote:
To those above, COMPLETELY agree. Signing Bush, IMO, would've been a stupid move. We might already have someone just as good in Leshoure, so what's the point of paying 3-4 million a year for him? And Porter is a completely average CB. Seen him get burned so much it's not even funny.

It's just unreal how many players we have now who are getting paid a lot of money and can be easily replaced.

Cliff Avril: $10.6 million / Willie Young
Corey Williams: $4.9 million / SLH
Jeff Backus: $7.9 million or Stephen Peterman: $2.725 million / Riley Reiff
Nate Burleson: around $13 million through 2013/2014 / Titus Young
Dominic Raiola: $5 million / Jason Fox, and if not I'm sure a FA center could be found for the same or a lower price who's just as good if not better than Raiola.

That's probably around $25 million in possible cap space. Just imagine if all of them became the starters next offseason and we had $20 mill+ to blow.


you cant just obsess about how much a player is making. at some point you have to put good reliable players with a track record on the field. "easily replaced" is just your opinion and you are using it way too freely. Cliff Avril 10.6 million was a key player on the 1st playoff team in 12 years around here and is only 26 years old. His deal is for 1 year, there s no liability there. Willie Young shows promise but he has 3.5 career sacks and is OLDER than Avril. He could break out but its hard to imagine him ever being better than Avril, firstly he had a light workload last year and was slowed down by injuries. Lets see him put it togethter a little more before we hand him the keys. If he does do a great job we ll get him for 1 more year at reasonable cost since he ll be a RFA and then he ll be asking for the same money as Avril. I d like to see this team in 2013 play w Avril vs 1st or 2nd rd pick/Lewis at one DE and Jackson/Young at the other. They will save some money from the cap when KVB puts the cleats up and all indications are that he isnt able to recover from minor injuries as quickly. SLH is a good player but they arent cutting Corey Williams when Fairley remains a huge question mark. They will have 8 lineman rotating in and out, thats part of Schwartz philosophy so if you are going to cut Corey Williams or Avril then you better use a pick to have someone sitting there that can fill Willie Young or Sammie Hill s backup/rotational role. As has been pointed out on this site multiple times the team is facing impending salary cap doom after the season with many starters hitting FA. It was absolutely a necessity to draft quantity at LB and CB in the hope that a couple of those guys will be ready in a year and save off the cost of resigning vets.

Jeff Backus - if you watched any preseason you would know that Reiff isnt quite ready yet especially in pass protection which for this team is the most important trait for an OL. Again when Reiff is ready than Backus can be let go and then you get some cap space. There are no young backups on the interior line so Peterman is your man. There s no replacement for him on this roster. Burleson is the successful answer to a long line of bad veteran FA signings/failed draft picks that were brought in to be No 2 or complementary WRs Az Hakim, Tai Streets, Bill Schroeder, Kevin Johnson, Bryant Johnson, blah blah blah. Burleson has some flaws but is a solid player overall. He will be replaced soon but Titus Young was wrong on his route adjustments too often last year and has shown maturity problems in games and off the field (delmas incident). Also in case you dont watch formations, this team is dying to put out good 3 WR sets so dont expect Burleson gone until both Young and Broyles show they are ready for heavy duty. Did you really want to put an oft injured totally unexperienced tackle prospect and have him replace a veteran center. After reading that one, Im not sure why I even bothered writing this post. You clearly are still learning the sport.

The point is, you are better off if you can let some of these roster decisions work themselves out naturally by the development of the younger players. Forcing the issue with a calculator isnt the smartest way to do it, let it work itself out on the football field and when they younger players show they are ready then reward them with playing time and free up the veterans so you can add in other areas. Making the moves you suggest would leave Matt Stafford at risk and without another reliable WR, the DL would have a much less potent pass rush. Those are the keys to this team and I applaud Mayhew for squeezing it all under this years cap.


September 9th, 2012, 1:44 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
mwill2, njroar - bravo to both of you. solid posts all over this site. njroar if you told me you were a scout i would find that more believable than well lets just stop there.

m2k - you made a couple of good points but I think wjb s opinion that Mayhew makes good trades but not sold yet on the drafting part is a reasonable one. you kind of lost me when you said you think most D1 NCAA team could beat Millen's Lions? that kind of statement just makes one stop reading.

wjb - i dont agree with everything you write and i think you d rather take credit for pointing out mistakes than saying right on with draft picks you like or agree with (something that others on this site clearly get irritated by) but i agree with your criticisms on below post.


Quote:
For drafting players like Javid Best and Brandon Pettigrew when we could have had Alex Mack and a host of other players for Best. I expect Mayhew to have a total approach to the team. I don't think he has handled the OL well. I think he's severely mismanaged the OL. The reason I'm so pissed about the Alex Mack pick isn't just because Alex Mack is a great OC, it's because we're over-paying an aging Dominic Raiola and it's hurting the team, our OL is old, we need replacements for virtually everyone on the OL (Backus, Raiola, and Sims are all over 30, Peterman sucks, and Cherilus sucks). Reiff MAY replace ONE of those guys, but what about the other four positions? IMO that's just flat out irresponsible, and we had a 23 year old pro-bowl guard sitting there when took a TE. We could have signed or drafted a TE later. I understand needing to get a TE, but that's what the damn third round is for.


ignoring the jahvid best med report clearly has backfired. best s talents are great and fit the offense but its got to be considered a bust pick. with regards to the OL, there was a discussion on here during the 2010 6-10 season and people were suggesting moves on the OL. I didnt disagree but I thought that the way the front office had handled the OL seemed to indicate that they were content with their players on the OL and that has largely proved true. They are disguising mediocre/average talent on the OL mostly by the quickness with which Stafford throws the ball. I d like to see a stat on how often Stafford gets hit when he has held onto the ball longer than 3 seconds. In the current usage, they are credited as a decent OL for the pass but are poor at run blocking. Maybe Mayhew thinks they are actually good or him and Linehan have worked together with the strategy. Whatever it is, Mayhew has had many opportunities to upgrade on the OL and has stayed pretty much status quo. His attempts at fixing the running game have been mostly by spending resources on the runners. This is a purely hindisight thought but how much better would the team be if they had used the Best and Leshoure draft picks on OL instead and running Kevin Smith and the saved Peterman/Raiola money on a FA runner? As for the TE, I think Pettigrew has become a decent TE but some of that is because of the scheme and QB. Put Pett on another team and Im not sure he s as well known or as highly thought of. He has not been the type of consistently dominant blocker that he was advertised as. You make an excellent point with where Pettigrew was drafted. Players like Graham, Gronkowski, Hernandez, etc are more impactful and none were 1st rounders.

anyway for all the attacks you got on this thread i thought id point out that i thought those were reasonable criticisms.


September 9th, 2012, 2:12 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Mayhew s drafts: I think many of you are a little too quick anointing some of the draft picks as the best thing since sliced bread.

2009: Stafford/Pettigrew/Delmas/Williams/Levy/Hill/A. Brown/Murtha

Stafford was the key pick but I think even Millen would ve made this pick. Mayhew did however hire Schwartz/Linehand/Gunther so Ill give him some credit for that pick bc I could see Millen hiring someone like Rich Rod running spread option and then forcing him to work with Stafford. 2008 is by far Mayhew s best draft. I think the Pettigrew pick is a little overrated but still a decent one. Delmas and Hill picks were great. He s gotten something out of Levy so I ll give him credit but I dont think Levy is a good player. Williams is the only real bust here. Delmas and Hill were very good picks.

2010: Suh/Best/Spievey/Fox/Young/Toone

Suh a no brainer. Millen would ve taken him. Spievey, Fox, Toone not looking like good picks and Best looking like a bust. Young potentially a great pick in rd 7.

2011: Fairley/Young/Leshoure/Hogue/Culbreath

Young looking like the only decent pick and even he has had his issues. Fairley/Leshoure arent busts yet but they ve proven questionable at least from a character perspective. Hogue already is being outplayed by PS players. Culbreath gone.

2012: Reiff/Broyles/Bentley/Lewis/Whitehead/Greenwood/Green/Lewis

1st 3 picks looking like they will contribute early and others have all made the team so this has been good so far. A chance to make up any ground lost in 2010/11.

Overall Id say he nailed the 2009 draft but the 2010 draft kinda flopped. 2011 looks like it could flop. 2012 probably wont flop but thats based on early returns, potentially he got a couple solid players late which is a huge plus.

Overall its like a B- drafting to this point.


September 9th, 2012, 2:40 am
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