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 Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon? 
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
in all fairness that TD catch wouldn't have been stopped by too many DB's in the league. That was a good pass and a GREAT catch. Green was in solid position and even got a hand on the ball.....you just cant win em all.


thats NOT to say im sold on the D though.....They played significantly better than I fear, but the Rams arnt exactly a offensive powerhouse either.

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September 10th, 2012, 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Yesterday was the 50th game in the Mayhew/Schwartz regime so one's assessment of their overall success or failure should not be altered by this single game. I posted earlier that this is "overreaction Monday," and what I meant was that fans everywhere are picking apart their team based on one game. Yesterday's games provide only a tiny glimpse of what will unfold over the course of the season--we can't draw any reasonable conclusions about the overall direction of the organization from one week of play. This is likewise true for discussions of other teams and their players.

There's nothing wrong with discussing the game, but there's a Rams vs. Lions thread for that...

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September 10th, 2012, 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
regularjoe12 wrote:
in all fairness that TD catch wouldn't have been stopped by too many DB's in the league. That was a good pass and a GREAT catch. Green was in solid position and even got a hand on the ball.....you just cant win em all.


thats NOT to say im sold on the D though.....They played significantly better than I fear, but the Rams arnt exactly a offensive powerhouse either.


Sorry joe, but that's just wrong. Green allowed Gibson to easily get behind him, and then NEVER TURNED HIS HEAD AROUND when the ball was thrown. Lions fans used to blast Travis Fisher and Jonathan Wade about exactly the same thing during their stints here. Green was criticized by Schwartz during pre-season for the same thing. It may have been a well thrown pass, but it wasn't so good that it couldn't have been easily batted away by a defender who would have been looking at the freakin' ball.

Green didn't defend that pass. He ran behind Gibson and hoped to get lucky by sticking his hand up. Had he played that the way he SHOULD have played it, the pass may have been broken up. He certainly would have improved his chances of knocking the ball away if he would have done what he was supposed to do.

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September 10th, 2012, 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
We come out flat, unprepared, and get out coached in every way by a far inferior team, yet I'm crazy for stating the Schwartz may not be the guy to take us to the promise land?


I wouldn't put this all on Schwartz and the coaching staff. The Lions drove 77 yards on their first drive before throwing a pick on the goal line. They went 80-yards and scored on their next drive. They didn't look flat to me, one bad pass.

Defensively, we held the Rams to about 66 yards in the first half, again didn't look flat to me.

I don't think we were flat or unprepared, I think we threw 3 first half INTs which primarily fall on Stafford - not the coaching staff.

I realize the score was close but we had twice as many first downs, 429 yads to 251. We averaged more per pass and run play. Heck, we even had only 3 penalties.

I liked the gameplan for the most part on both sides of the ball, our QB just can't make some of those throws.

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September 10th, 2012, 5:22 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Pablo wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
We come out flat, unprepared, and get out coached in every way by a far inferior team, yet I'm crazy for stating the Schwartz may not be the guy to take us to the promise land?


I wouldn't put this all on Schwartz and the coaching staff. The Lions drove 77 yards on their first drive before throwing a pick on the goal line. They went 80-yards and scored on their next drive. They didn't look flat to me, one bad pass.

Defensively, we held the Rams to about 66 yards in the first half, again didn't look flat to me.

I don't think we were flat or unprepared, I think we threw 3 first half INTs which primarily fall on Stafford - not the coaching staff.

I realize the score was close but we had twice as many first downs, 429 yads to 251. We averaged more per pass and run play. Heck, we even had only 3 penalties.

I liked the gameplan for the most part on both sides of the ball, our QB just can't make some of those throws.


Well said Pablo. I like how someone can back something up with stats instead of just saying this guy sucks or that guy sucks.

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September 10th, 2012, 9:19 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Pablo wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
We come out flat, unprepared, and get out coached in every way by a far inferior team, yet I'm crazy for stating the Schwartz may not be the guy to take us to the promise land?


I wouldn't put this all on Schwartz and the coaching staff. The Lions drove 77 yards on their first drive before throwing a pick on the goal line. They went 80-yards and scored on their next drive. They didn't look flat to me, one bad pass.

Defensively, we held the Rams to about 66 yards in the first half, again didn't look flat to me.

I don't think we were flat or unprepared, I think we threw 3 first half INTs which primarily fall on Stafford - not the coaching staff.

I realize the score was close but we had twice as many first downs, 429 yads to 251. We averaged more per pass and run play. Heck, we even had only 3 penalties.

I liked the gameplan for the most part on both sides of the ball, our QB just can't make some of those throws.


IMO our WRs didn't play with energy or get much separation, until the 2nd half. We may have drove the ball well here and there, but there was no sense of urgency. The team looked out of sync on offense, Pett continued to struggle with drops, and Stafford threw three picks

It maddens me that people think interceptions aren't the Qbs fault, or that it was "just one bad pass" (3Xs mind you). "Stafford is great, Stafford is God, Stafford is our hero... Oh crap he's throwing pick after pick... well, that's not his fault" seems to be the mentality - as if it's somehow not apart of the team or his play. People are so willing to admit that Stafford is our entire offense, when he's playing well, but when he's not it largely gets ignored. He was staring down his targets, not making adjustments, and making it easy on the DBs, IMO that falls on the coaching staff for not having him ready for the regular season. It looked to me like we over-looked the Rams for the SF game, and it almost cost us a win from a very beatable team.

I'm glad you said "not all the coaches fault," and I agree. I don't fault them for the game plan, it seemed solid, but I do fault them for the sloppy play of the WRs and TE, and for Staffords lack of energy and preparedness. I also fault them for their lack of ingenuity. It's ok to have a team that's so far superior that you don't need much ingenuity, but Fisher's decision to put their #3 CB on CJ, when they have a former pro-bowl CB in Finnegan on their roster, IMO, is genius and it worked well. You can point out the 6 catches for 111 yards, but to hold CJ TD-less is not easy to do. I can't stand that we never see that kind of creativity out of our coaching staff.

It's true that we moved the ball at ease in the 2nd half, when we needed to, but IMO its the coaches job to get the most out of his players all game. Again, we looked undisciplined and, at times lazy. IMO that's unacceptable. Thankfully the clock manager bailed us out and allowed us to save a T.O., or we may be singing a very different tune.


September 11th, 2012, 1:49 pm
Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
njroar wrote:
Did you watch that game last night? Tracy Porter was getting abused most of the game. He just had a great 4th quarter to make up for it and suddenly everyone forgets. I watched the media and fans belittle him all game and then suddenly praise him. Had they lost, he would have been called out for it. I just find it ironic how you praise him for the same thing you get mad at the fans on this forum for -- only pointing out the good.

Bush had 3.5ypc and 2 TDs compared to Smith's 4.6ypc and 2 TDs... Joique got the 1ypc on the tough TD run. Just showing that the stats didn't make your argument.

No one's settling for mediocrity. You've let your anger at the things they've done differently than you would have liked them to do and only harp on that over and over. You never speak out on anything positive. You find the bad in everything they do, except when it's done your way. Why? I agree that this team still has work to do, but so does every team in the league. No team is complete. I see the weaknesses in SF, we all saw the weaknesses of GB... but most of your posts lately have been to the fact that this team is a complete disaster. If that's how you see it, fine, but getting mad at others because they see things a little more positively makes you look bitter. Did the Lion's ruin your birthday as a child?


I don't see how anyone that watched that game could say that Porter got "abused." In fact, he played a near flawless game.

If you take away his two goal-line carries (carries that he couldn't possibly run for more than 1 yard), Bush averaged 4.0 yards per carry. I realize that's not quite the 4.6 that Smith averaged, but lets wait and see who does it longer, and who stays healthier.

I don't get mad at people for their team views. On the contrary, people generally get mad at me for MY team views. If someone wants to settle for what they're being given, that's fine with me. My only point of contention is that it is an inferior product than what should be put on the field. My point of contention is that our RB corps shouldn't have been ignored, relying on Best was irresponsible at best, we shouldn't have gotten into this pissing match with Cliff hamstringing us into over-paying yet another vet that we ultimately won't be to afford, we need to rely on the LITTLE talent that we actually do "develop," (Willie Young) we should have signed or drafted a CB before taking a #4 WR, and that we shouldn't continue to over-pay vets at deep positions while ignoring needs at key positions in FA and the draft.

If you guys think that Cliff makes our team better than Bush and Porter, so be it, but I vehemently disagree. If you guys think Corey Williams makes our team better than Tracy Porter, that's fine with me. I don't. If you think Broyles makes our team better than drafting a RB or CB, or starting caliber OG, so be it. I don't, period. I don't get mad at anyone for it, but when it seems to come true people say "oh great, now WJB has ammo..." I wish they would say, "GOD DAMMIT! MAYHEW SCREWED US," cause that's what really happened.


September 11th, 2012, 2:39 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
wjb...let me ask you this. Which PLAYER would you have preferred Mayhew select in round two of this past draft?

Now, let me ask this...what makes you think that Mayhew didn't extend an invitation to the agents of Bush and/or Porter to come to Allen Park, and that they respectfully declined?

And before you get all perturbed, remember that I am no happier than you that the Lions are paying Avril $10.6M this year. But I also don't think he's a player they should have just let walk away.

So, I guess I would say answer question number one. Don't give me a position, give me a player. Good GMs don't draft positions, they draft talent.

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September 11th, 2012, 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
njroar wrote:
Did you watch that game last night? Tracy Porter was getting abused most of the game. He just had a great 4th quarter to make up for it and suddenly everyone forgets. I watched the media and fans belittle him all game and then suddenly praise him. Had they lost, he would have been called out for it. I just find it ironic how you praise him for the same thing you get mad at the fans on this forum for -- only pointing out the good.

Bush had 3.5ypc and 2 TDs compared to Smith's 4.6ypc and 2 TDs... Joique got the 1ypc on the tough TD run. Just showing that the stats didn't make your argument.

No one's settling for mediocrity. You've let your anger at the things they've done differently than you would have liked them to do and only harp on that over and over. You never speak out on anything positive. You find the bad in everything they do, except when it's done your way. Why? I agree that this team still has work to do, but so does every team in the league. No team is complete. I see the weaknesses in SF, we all saw the weaknesses of GB... but most of your posts lately have been to the fact that this team is a complete disaster. If that's how you see it, fine, but getting mad at others because they see things a little more positively makes you look bitter. Did the Lion's ruin your birthday as a child?


I don't see how anyone that watched that game could say that Porter got "abused." In fact, he played a near flawless game.

If you take away his two goal-line carries (carries that he couldn't possibly run for more than 1 yard), Bush averaged 4.0 yards per carry. I realize that's not quite the 4.6 that Smith averaged, but lets wait and see who does it longer, and who stays healthier.

I don't get mad at people for their team views. On the contrary, people generally get mad at me for MY team views. If someone wants to settle for what they're being given, that's fine with me. My only point of contention is that it is an inferior product than what should be put on the field. My point of contention is that our RB corps shouldn't have been ignored, relying on Best was irresponsible at best, we shouldn't have gotten into this pissing match with Cliff hamstringing us into over-paying yet another vet that we ultimately won't be to afford, we need to rely on the LITTLE talent that we actually do "develop," (Willie Young) we should have signed or drafted a CB before taking a #4 WR, and that we shouldn't continue to over-pay vets at deep positions while ignoring needs at key positions in FA and the draft.

If you guys think that Cliff makes our team better than Bush and Porter, so be it, but I vehemently disagree. If you guys think Corey Williams makes our team better than Tracy Porter, that's fine with me. I don't. If you think Broyles makes our team better than drafting a RB or CB, or starting caliber OG, so be it. I don't, period. I don't get mad at anyone for it, but when it seems to come true people say "oh great, now WJB has ammo..." I wish they would say, "GOD DAMMIT! MAYHEW SCREWED US," cause that's what really happened.


Or maybe, just MAYBE, Mayhew understood that Nate Burleson wouldn't be under contract for too much longer and he wanted to draft the best WR in college football history to fill his shoes. Just a random thought. IMO, out of all the WRs, CBs, safeties, and offensive linemen on the board, he was easily the most talented player.

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September 11th, 2012, 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
Regarding Broyles, He had the most receptions in NCAA History, that doesnt make him the best. In Fact, had hes not even a #1 receiver type (not built for it). which may have pushed him into the 2nd round anyways. Part of the way he got that record was staying at school, wheras top receiver talents almost always go to the draft early.

That said, he was 1 of the most talented players available when we drafted. He was a round 1 talent, but his Injury dropped him into the 2nd. He very unlikely would have made it to their next pick, and he def fills a role but has a time to adjust/heal (most receivers need a year or so) before stepping in.

When hes starting over burleson next year, or god forbid has to replace titus for getting suspended/kicked off the team for continuing to act like a clown... we will be glad we had him.

I was Ok with the broyles pick but want us to keep perspective.


September 11th, 2012, 5:09 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
m2karateman wrote:
wjb...let me ask you this. Which PLAYER would you have preferred Mayhew select in round two of this past draft?

Now, let me ask this...what makes you think that Mayhew didn't extend an invitation to the agents of Bush and/or Porter to come to Allen Park, and that they respectfully declined?

And before you get all perturbed, remember that I am no happier than you that the Lions are paying Avril $10.6M this year. But I also don't think he's a player they should have just let walk away.

So, I guess I would say answer question number one. Don't give me a position, give me a player. Good GMs don't draft positions, they draft talent.



not to feed the beast but i was upset when Kontz was available in the 2nd and we ddin't take him. a lot of guys had projected us to get him in the first and he was still there for us to get in the 2nd. I was thinking that would have been a perfect oportunity to upgrade our oline in 2 spots...and if i remember correctly Kontz could play center too...

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September 12th, 2012, 10:20 am
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
regularjoe12 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
wjb...let me ask you this. Which PLAYER would you have preferred Mayhew select in round two of this past draft?

Now, let me ask this...what makes you think that Mayhew didn't extend an invitation to the agents of Bush and/or Porter to come to Allen Park, and that they respectfully declined?

And before you get all perturbed, remember that I am no happier than you that the Lions are paying Avril $10.6M this year. But I also don't think he's a player they should have just let walk away.

So, I guess I would say answer question number one. Don't give me a position, give me a player. Good GMs don't draft positions, they draft talent.



not to feed the beast but i was upset when Kontz was available in the 2nd and we ddin't take him. a lot of guys had projected us to get him in the first and he was still there for us to get in the 2nd. I was thinking that would have been a perfect oportunity to upgrade our oline in 2 spots...and if i remember correctly Kontz could play center too...


I was rooting for us to pick up either Peter Konz (who played center at Wisconsin, but is big enough to play guard in the NFL as well) or Vinny Curry from Marshall. I was leaning towards Konz due to need. I saw Konz as someone who could step in immediately and battle both Raiola and Peterman for a starting job. Konz is the backup at guard and center in Atlanta, but I expect him to be a starter by next season, at the latest. Curry is caught up in the numbers game in Philly, who has a plethora of defensive ends in camp now.

Other optional players would have been LaMichael James, LaVonte David, Josh Robinson or Trumaine Johnson.

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September 12th, 2012, 12:55 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
I wanted Konz also, but can see why Mayhew went in the direction he did.

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September 12th, 2012, 1:15 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
kdsberman wrote:
I wanted Konz also, but can see why Mayhew went in the direction he did.


I still dont (unless he REALLY doesn't like Titus and has plans on letting him go if he doesnt change). Broyles is going to have to be some kinda WR for me to appreciate that in particular pick.

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September 12th, 2012, 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Do you think S/M/L can build a championship team soon?
regularjoe12 wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
I wanted Konz also, but can see why Mayhew went in the direction he did.


I still dont (unless he REALLY doesn't like Titus and has plans on letting him go if he doesnt change). Broyles is going to have to be some kinda WR for me to appreciate that in particular pick.


Picture this. We have 1 of the Most profilific Passing Attacks in the NFL. It requires Weapons. While we have 2 good young TEs, Linehan likes his receivers. Burleson is still producing but is slowing down. Imagine if Burleson was gone next season, and we didnt have Broyles....

We'd be putting in a FA WR (think Rashied Davis and his ilk) , Someone like Patrick Edwards from this years PS, or a Rookie Pick like Derrick Williams from the next draft because we NEED a 3rd Rec for this Offense to Flow well.

So while it seems weird to Draft someone ahead of time, BEFORE they become a Need.. thats exactly what Mayhew did. He Drafted Talent, and we wont miss a beat even if Burleson is let go/ Someone (other than CJ) gets injured/ Titus continues to act like a dumbass and gets himself Benched or Suspended.


September 12th, 2012, 1:37 pm
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