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 Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams 
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
njroar wrote:
I just wanted to point out that it isn't as easy as saying "false." There really is some substance behind some of the questions, and then there is some crazy thrown in by some that is then used to label the entire thing. Like i said... it's interesting. I laugh at both sides sometimes. The ones that refuse to admit there's questions and we should take everything said as gospel, and those that say the questions prove it's true. Like most things, I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There's definitely something he doesn't want out there otherwise it wouldn't be locked away.
Agreed. There is much to be discussed, now if that could only happen without the partisan rhetoric being thrown in we might actually be able to get somewhere....yeah, I'm not holding my breath either :shock: :wink: ](*,)

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September 10th, 2012, 1:09 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
but...on the bright side.....we now have the term "birthers" which is almost as funny as the term "mouth breathers"


lol

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September 10th, 2012, 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Actually my choice would be a Strong Conservative. The Libertarian party is too Liberal in their stance on drugs, and morality.
What EXACTLY do you have take issue with them on?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I'm not asking for a theocracy, I'm asking for a party that will defend the country, it's borders, and allow us citizens to live our lives.
This sounds very much like the Libertarian Party mantra.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The Democrats are big government and intrusive into my life, and do NOT want individualism, nor will they allow me to obtain the highest of my ability that I wish to work towards.
Any facts to support these claims? And no, anecdotal stories do not count.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
KEEP IN MIND I WORK IN INNER CITY, I DEAL WITH INNE CITY HOUSING, and so I HAVE A FRONT LINE VIEW of the age of Entitlement.
KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU'RE ONLY SEEING 1 COMMUNITIES EXAMPLE, DOES THAT MEAN ALL COMMUNITIES ARE THE SAME?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I see on a daily basis what government dependency breeds, and it's more dependency. The government provides, housing, health care, food, utilities, cell phones, and so why should I have to work? Meanwhile, these same families have the X boxes and movies(bootleg or otherwise), smoke cigarettes, drink the all the alcohol they can handle, breed as many kids as they wish, because there is no incentive to make your own way. I want the ability to make my own way, do for my family to the best of my ability, and raise me family as I see fit.
I'm sure we could discuss for days on end the circle of dependency (chicked or egg type thing) That said, are you suggesting that Americans should not be allowed to smoke, drink, play video games, watch movies, have families? With respect, for someone that spouts "Judge not, lest ye be judged", you're sounding VERY judgmental, then again perhaps I'm reading into it.....
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I'm not totally sold on the Republican party, they just happen to best represent my Conservative values more than any other. If I had to choose a party to associate with it would be a Tea Party Conservative, and until they are strong enough, and big enough to be a Third Party, and NOT absorbed by the RNC, then that's where I'm at.
IMO they will become a 'faction' or caucus of the GOP, think Christian Coalition, Blue Dog Dems, etc
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I signed my name on a contract that allowed you and anyone else to vote for whoever you wish. I would not ask you to do anything else than vote your convictions. BUT, much like Perot did in 92, a third party does draw the more left leaning or Moderate voters away from the righter Conservatives.
With respect, why is it a bad thing to have the moderate or middle ground votes voice themselves? Isn't that what our Democratic Republic is about? Us being able to voice our opinions? If either of the major parties do not align with us, then are we to just not vote?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
This weakens the right to some extent which allows a lethal leftist government currently in power, to possibly maintain control.
or perhaps, you know, the other parties could adjust their platforms and thinking to garner the votes of said moderates...just a thought
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Getting this ILLEGAL PRESIDENT OUT OF OFFICE SHOULD BE THE ONLY FOCUS OF ANY CONSERVATIVE.
Already being discussed.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The Liberals, and especially BO are a one worlder mentality and as I said, they don't want the USA to be exceptional, they want us to fall in line. Rommey and Ryan are Self AVOWED, and PROVEN to be ANTI-ONE WORLDERS.
May I ask you something? Why do you feel as though US is 'exceptional'? Aren't we all (humans) created equal? If so, then what makes someone born withing the border of the USA more 'exceptional' than someone born withing the borders of Great Britain or Italy or Germay or....?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Romney is a businessman like Perot, and did wonders with his money. He knows how to make it, he KNOWS how to make jobs, and
The US Govt is not a business. In the business world there are decision makers and if someone doesn't agree with them, they can be replaced with someone that does. In the Govt world that's not the case...unless you think the POTUS can and will fire US Citizens....
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Ryan is a BULLDOG on budgets, and wanting to run this country OF THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE>
Look at Ryan's voting record. It is VERY different from the rhetoric he has been espousing. He is partly responsible for our current economic situation...what makes you think he 'means it' this time? What proof do you have to convince you of this?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I wasn't really sold on Romney at first, but the more I've heard him, the more I've looked into his character, the more I like him. I was always taught not to judge a book by it's cover, but that doesn't mean you can't make a determination based upon content. If a tree produces bad fruit you cut it down and burn it up. Look at the fruit of the two men vying for our vote!

One: division, divisive rhetoric, large government, controlling policies, extreme regulations, wealth distribution, crib to coffin entitlements, lies and deceit, unmet promises, extreme debt, and more deception. Do as I say not as I do!

Two: transparent to the requirement, family oriented, country oriented, successful businessman, public servant, willing to serve anyone even at his own costs, good friend (according to those around him), truthfull, driven, dedicated, and much more.

If you look at the people around these two men, can you honestly NOT SEE the differences? You know the list, one is inclusive of enemies of the State, and the other is inclusive of strong leaders, and friends.
With respect, that is what YOU personally see in each candidate, though it may not be what others see.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
So please forgive me if you were offended by my reference to a wasted vote, but until the Tea party Conservatives have their own free standing party, a vote for anything else could have the same results as Perot of 92, WHO I VOTED FOR AT THAT TIME. My thinking was who better to run a business than a successful businessman, hmmm, deja vu?
I too voted Perot because I thought a businessman would be great to run the Country; now I look back and see how naive I was back then. As I said above, a government is not like a business and therefore cannot (and should not) be run like one.

It is me or is the 'new wave' of ABB (Anybody but Barack) sounding eerily similar to the 'old' ABB (Anybody but Bush) crowd? :confused: Hell, the OG ABBers said Bush was Fascist and now Obama is Socialist. Rhetoric and propaganda are great, huh? ](*,)

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September 10th, 2012, 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
Wags: thanks for asking and I'll do my best to address each.

1. My issue with the Libertarians is probably best summed up in this from their own website. "Tolerant: The Libertarian Party is for all who don't want to push other people around and don't want to be pushed around themselves. Live and let live is the Libertarian way."

Let me say that I live in an area of the US where "tolerance" is the mantra of the day, and it flows through the belief system, the ways of doing business, and these same people are "Christian" but very, VERY, Liberal. Mennonite, Amish, Brethren, Church of the Brethren and more. It's a turn the other cheek mentality taken to the extreme.

This rubs me raw because I think Aaron Tippin said it best, "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything." Freedom comes with a price, and that price is usually blood. From what I understand (take with a grain of salt) the Libertarian belief on freedom does NOT maintain a standard of freedom, but allows all to express themselves according to how they see fit. Think anarchist if taken to the extreme. My belief is based around all have freedom, BUT that freedom is governed by decency and moral ethics. This will probably curl the toe hairs on some people but the moral and ethical standard of the US, prior to the 60's as a GENERAL rule produced the strongest generations. KEEP IN MIND, that we had very UGLY National sins, bigotry, and thought processes that we did not deal with nor address appropriately. This is where my Christian beliefs mix in, and that will sour some people so I won't post them.

2. Do I really need to state the obvious? IRS has currently started hiring up to 30,000 new employees, to be the enforcement arm of the new Obamacare law/tax. Here maybe this will help a little? http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/25/news/ec ... /index.htm

3. I'm not seeing one community I'm seeing several from the Nation. I work for a community development corp. so we get numbers from around the nation to compare ourselves with. Being 1.5 hours from Chitown also allows me to see entitlements at their worst. A vast majority of my clientele jump between Chitwon and Elkhart/South Bend. It is very sad to see, and I've been to Detroit several times as well, and back home to Battle Creek. So maybe that's just regional thinking? But Hurricane Katrina demonstrated some very ugly truths about another region of the US, so maybe it's an Urban thing?

4. I'm not suggesting that infringing on personal freedom is okay; that is the implication right? But as I've said in other posts, welfare should be workfare that allows people an opportunity to receive the needed assistance, without losing their dignity, and eliminating the ability for welfare as a career. I, personally have drawn up ideas and plans that would use education, hard work, and volunteer programs to do many of the "civil service" projects that cause nightmares for large cities. If I can do it as Mr. Nobody, why can we not do it nationally?

5. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not suggesting anyone's freedom to vote their convictions be taken away. I'm just saying that in this 2 party system the obvious wrong path of socialism, entitlements, regulation, penalty on job creators, and taxing the wealthy who pay 70% of the taxes anyway needs to be defeated. Why do Liberal Democrats scream and fight so loudly when you start to guarantee voter id's? Even the DNC required Photo ID to get in, and then you had to show it a minimum of 3 times by most reports? Didn't this create undo stress and strain on it's delegate base? Didn't they have to travel extreme distances to get to Charlotte?
I'm not trying to be Mr. Obvious here, but let's stop all the smoke and mirrors, ACORN was caught being fraudulent with voter registration, they've been forced out of business (actually heard they changed their name). Voter Fraud happens, and when you require Voter ID that reduces the chance of fraud, which allows votes to be cast in certain areas with a greater ease of deception. How about the Black Panthers intimidating voters in certain precincts in Philly? Do you see the point? Voting is a priviledge paid for by the blood of veterans and more for hundreds of years. Because this is a priviledge, why is it a hardship to ensure that ONLY Americans are voting, and not illegal aliens, or convicts, or dead people, or any other kind of fraud?

6. The exceptional status of the United States is that we offer Freedom for ALL. If you come to the United States from Mars, and you wish to become a citizen through the legal process, wish to learn the language, and contribute to our society then there isn't a problem. Each nation should strive for exceptionalism, and freedom, what's the problem with that? I don't have one, I encourage it, and am encouraged by it. My problem is with one worlders that they want to eliminate borders, establish one world law, and subject all mankind to standards that we don't have a say so in. I'm not comfortable with that, and it's probably a trust issue, not to mention my Christian beliefs in the detriment of a one world government.

7. Okay, maybe business wasn't the best word to use, so let me use another that applies better. LEADERSHIP. At present, BO is a leadership by committee and NOT example. Do as I say, not as I do! Again this is probably a perspective thing, but he's spent a lot of American tax payer money jet setting Europe, playing golf, and who knows what else. Romney has led by example (may be perspective again) but judge the tree by it's fruits.

Barak: Entitlements, anti-Americanism (communist mentors, and grandparents), deception, lies (fast and furious), and so on. Plus who does he surround himself with? Soros, and more known self avowed enemies of the state. Van Jones, and others.

Mitt: business, numerous stories of self sacrifice, service, looking out for his fellow man or woman. He's successfully saved companies and built a fortune doing it. Remember John Maxwell's statement about trimming fat in order to save a company. That means that companies or plants may have to close non-producing areas in order to help save the corporation as a whole.

Case in point: I served as Moderator for my home church for 3 years. Going in we had SEVERE shake up, the Pastor left, we were without a leader and still had to run the facility. So in the midst of this time, we brought in a new Pastor, negotiated his salary, and watched our membership reduce from 80 to about 40 families. Needless to say, that kills a church budget quickly. Our leadership needed to trim fat, so we looked at our out sourced services, and started pulling things in house. We recycled bulletins, and offering envelopes, reduced hours, changed certain outsourced services to pay better rates for same services. Everything said and done we have been able to keep our doors open, maintain a VITAL commissary ministry that meets the food needs for seniors and families in our area often reaching 1000 families a quarter. A leader is able to see the vision, share the vision, and help the populace work towards the vision.

For the country, our current President has not only come up with a vision that is contrary to the will of the populace (Obamacare negative rating 67% of the US) so instead of being able to lead, their comes all the kickbacks, purchases, and strong arming, and when that doesn't work, he just side steps the Constitution of the USA to suit his needs.

So I don't know about your eyes, but my head hurts and I think I dropped my fingers, but I hope that I've been able to share my thoughts in a way that is understandable, and helps to answer your questions.

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September 10th, 2012, 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
WarEr4Christ - Thx for the response, I will respond later when I have more time.

Peace

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September 11th, 2012, 9:48 am
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Wags: thanks for asking and I'll do my best to address each.

1. My issue with the Libertarians is probably best summed up in this from their own website. "Tolerant: The Libertarian Party is for all who don't want to push other people around and don't want to be pushed around themselves. Live and let live is the Libertarian way."

Let me say that I live in an area of the US where "tolerance" is the mantra of the day, and it flows through the belief system, the ways of doing business, and these same people are "Christian" but very, VERY, Liberal. Mennonite, Amish, Brethren, Church of the Brethren and more. It's a turn the other cheek mentality taken to the extreme.
This is from the current Platform:
Quote:
PREAMBLE

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.

These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.

http://www.lp.org/platform
I suppose one could 'read into' that most anything including anarchy, though I'm sure one could 'read into' the Rep Platform that they're fascist or that the Dems' are Socialists. None of this is true or factual.
IMO 'reading into' is dangerous as it takes the person's (who is 'reading into') bias and perception into account. They aren't truth or fact based.
That said, I would think the bolded part would be a good thing. Don't force your views on me and I won't force mine on you. What would be wrong with that?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
This rubs me raw because I think Aaron Tippin said it best, "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."
While Aaron may have written a song about it, It looks like Malcom X is the one who said it (as well as Star Jones' book title)
Quote:
If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.
Malcolm X
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... 0FUi3g4.99
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Freedom comes with a price, and that price is usually blood. From what I understand (take with a grain of salt) the Libertarian belief on freedom does NOT maintain a standard of freedom, but allows all to express themselves according to how they see fit. Think anarchist if taken to the extreme. My belief is based around all have freedom, BUT that freedom is governed by decency and moral ethics. This will probably curl the toe hairs on some people but the moral and ethical standard of the US, prior to the 60's as a GENERAL rule produced the strongest generations. KEEP IN MIND, that we had very UGLY National sins, bigotry, and thought processes that we did not deal with nor address appropriately. This is where my Christian beliefs mix in, and that will sour some people so I won't post them.
Again, from the Libertarian Platform:
Quote:
We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life -- accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action -- accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property -- accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
2. Do I really need to state the obvious? IRS has currently started hiring up to 30,000 new employees, to be the enforcement arm of the new Obamacare law/tax. Here maybe this will help a little? http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/25/news/ec ... /index.htm
I'll agree with the bigger govt part of your statement, however what proof of the following do you have?
Quote:
The Democrats intrusive into my life, and do NOT want individualism, nor will they allow me to obtain the highest of my ability that I wish to work towards.
Intrusive is perception, isn't it? How exactly do they NOT want individualism? How exactly will they not allow you to obtain the highest of your ability? Perhaps these are YOUR perception as well.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
3. I'm not seeing one community I'm seeing several from the Nation. I work for a community development corp. so we get numbers from around the nation to compare ourselves with. Being 1.5 hours from Chitown also allows me to see entitlements at their worst. A vast majority of my clientele jump between Chitwon and Elkhart/South Bend. It is very sad to see, and I've been to Detroit several times as well, and back home to Battle Creek. So maybe that's just regional thinking? But Hurricane Katrina demonstrated some very ugly truths about another region of the US, so maybe it's an Urban thing?
First off, can we agree that 'numbers' or 'statistics' can be manipulated to show anything the author wants? When you travel to Detroit & Battle Creek are you doing so for business or personal reasons? If personal, then may I suggest that what you 'see' could again be skewed because of perception? If business, what hard data / proof do you have to show that those areas are the same or similar to Chicago? Further, if the data is indeed comparable between Chicago, Detroit & Battle Creek then may I suggest searching outside that region? Look to the East, West, North and South as well.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
4. I'm not suggesting that infringing on personal freedom is okay; that is the implication right? But as I've said in other posts, welfare should be workfare that allows people an opportunity to receive the needed assistance, without losing their dignity, and eliminating the ability for welfare as a career. I, personally have drawn up ideas and plans that would use education, hard work, and volunteer programs to do many of the "civil service" projects that cause nightmares for large cities. If I can do it as Mr. Nobody, why can we not do it nationally?
Absolutely agree that welfare should be a 'hand-up' and not a 'hand-out'. How far have YOU taken your plans? With respect, if they're so good, then why don't you run for office or contact someone that has and get on a committee?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
5. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not suggesting anyone's freedom to vote their convictions be taken away. I'm just saying that in this 2 party system the obvious wrong path of socialism, entitlements, regulation, penalty on job creators, and taxing the wealthy who pay 70% of the taxes anyway needs to be defeated.
Hate to sound like a broken record, but again perception on the 'obvious socialism' rant (yes it is now a rant). And for the record, do you know who the real 'job creators' are? They are you and me, the US American consumer. How you ask? Simple, without the needed demand, nothing gets made. If there is no demand for qidgets, the widget company isn't going to hire anyone to make them, are they?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Why do Liberal Democrats scream and fight so loudly when you start to guarantee voter id's? Even the DNC required Photo ID to get in, and then you had to show it a minimum of 3 times by most reports? Didn't this create undo stress and strain on it's delegate base? Didn't they have to travel extreme distances to get to Charlotte?
I'm not trying to be Mr. Obvious here, but let's stop all the smoke and mirrors, ACORN was caught being fraudulent with voter registration, they've been forced out of business (actually heard they changed their name). Voter Fraud happens, and when you require Voter ID that reduces the chance of fraud, which allows votes to be cast in certain areas with a greater ease of deception. How about the Black Panthers intimidating voters in certain precincts in Philly? Do you see the point? Voting is a priviledge paid for by the blood of veterans and more for hundreds of years. Because this is a priviledge, why is it a hardship to ensure that ONLY Americans are voting, and not illegal aliens, or convicts, or dead people, or any other kind of fraud?
Agreed. The voting system in this Country is broken and needs to be fixed ASAP; sadly with the private entities of the RNC & DNC running the show, I don't see it being changed anytime soon.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
6. The exceptional status of the United States is that we offer Freedom for ALL. If you come to the United States from Mars, and you wish to become a citizen through the legal process, wish to learn the language, and contribute to our society then there isn't a problem. Each nation should strive for exceptionalism, and freedom, what's the problem with that? I don't have one, I encourage it, and am encouraged by it.
Can we then agree that 'American Exceptionalism' is an idea, perhaps a 'mantra' or 'way of life'?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
My problem is with one worlders that they want to eliminate borders, establish one world law, and subject all mankind to standards that we don't have a say so in. I'm not comfortable with that, and it's probably a trust issue, not to mention my Christian beliefs in the detriment of a one world government.
Just for clarification, you trust the corrupt political system we currently have in place more-so than your fellow man? And how are your Christian beliefs in the detriment of one world govt? Isn't part of the goal to convert all humans to Christianity? Would you be in favor of a Christian-led one world govt?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
7. Okay, maybe business wasn't the best word to use, so let me use another that applies better. LEADERSHIP. At present, BO is a leadership by committee and NOT example.
This I can agree 110% with, but its not only Obama, it was Bush as well. There has been a void in leadership in Washington DC for YEARS, not just the past 3+
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Do as I say, not as I do! Again this is probably a perspective thing, but he's spent a lot of American tax payer money jet setting Europe, playing golf, and who knows what else. Romney has led by example (may be perspective again) but judge the tree by it's fruits.

Barak: Entitlements, anti-Americanism (communist mentors, and grandparents), deception, lies (fast and furious), and so on. Plus who does he surround himself with? Soros, and more known self avowed enemies of the state. Van Jones, and others.

Mitt: business, numerous stories of self sacrifice, service, looking out for his fellow man or woman. He's successfully saved companies and built a fortune doing it. Remember John Maxwell's statement about trimming fat in order to save a company. That means that companies or plants may have to close non-producing areas in order to help save the corporation as a whole.

Case in point: I served as Moderator for my home church for 3 years. Going in we had SEVERE shake up, the Pastor left, we were without a leader and still had to run the facility. So in the midst of this time, we brought in a new Pastor, negotiated his salary, and watched our membership reduce from 80 to about 40 families. Needless to say, that kills a church budget quickly. Our leadership needed to trim fat, so we looked at our out sourced services, and started pulling things in house. We recycled bulletins, and offering envelopes, reduced hours, changed certain outsourced services to pay better rates for same services. Everything said and done we have been able to keep our doors open, maintain a VITAL commissary ministry that meets the food needs for seniors and families in our area often reaching 1000 families a quarter. A leader is able to see the vision, share the vision, and help the populace work towards the vision.

For the country, our current President has not only come up with a vision that is contrary to the will of the populace (Obamacare negative rating 67% of the US) so instead of being able to lead, their comes all the kickbacks, purchases, and strong arming, and when that doesn't work, he just side steps the Constitution of the USA to suit his needs.

So I don't know about your eyes, but my head hurts and I think I dropped my fingers, but I hope that I've been able to share my thoughts in a way that is understandable, and helps to answer your questions.
The rest here you bring up several valid points, but again you seem to call out Obama, but not his predecessors for doing the same things (travel, golf/recreation, executive order to bypass the Constitution, etc) It has been happening for decades and what is (at least) one thing that's been in common during all this time? Republicans & Democrats. The system is broken and needs to be fixed. Voting for the same 2 PRIVATE organization choices is NOT the answer.

(Has it sunk in yet that the RNC & DNC are PRIVATE and not PUBLIC like the rest of the government????)

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September 11th, 2012, 5:13 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
Quote:
Intrusive is perception, isn't it? How exactly do they NOT want individualism? How exactly will they not allow you to obtain the highest of your ability? Perhaps these are YOUR perception as well.


Wags, I see what you're saying but it all boils down to perception. My views, your views, anyone's views are taken from our environment. How does this affect me? How do the laws and regulations placed upon me, affect my life? I either like them or don't and then act accordingly.

In Obama's own speech from the DNC he stated that (this isn't verbatum) if given a chance at the next four years, he will ensure that everyone be given a chance to be a part of the middle class. Again, not verbatum.....

Communism's founders saw life as a Utopia. The government owns everything, and will partition it out to ALL people so that no one will own anything, and all will be equal. On paper it sounded beautiful, and almost like paradise, in practice it was very evil, and filled with lies.

First: who was the government? Why were they allowed a higher standard than all the "equal" people beneath them?

Second: Let's look at the track record of BO for his time in office. He has been an advocate for the "poor" ensuring through government programs that they get their fair share. In one perspective he's destroying the middle class, the back bone of this country by putting us all on one level except for government employees. Sounds very similar to a communist doctrine doesn't it?

Third: Who were his father figures and mentors growing up? Who shaped his world view as a young ma? A STRONG Communist, and friend of his Grandfather's. Then mix that with the Muslim upbringing he had in foreign countries under his father. Neither is particular friend of the US, and would be safe to say that we have a wolf in sheeps clothing sitting in office.

Fourth: What has caught my eye about the R2 group is the integrity, and honesty of the candidate. Romney who I didn't like at first, and shown me something in his actions, in his character, and his DEEP love for this country. Obama, does NOT love this country as illustrated by his own actions. He does not wish for the US to thrive, or grow, or continue to be the beacon of Hope and Freedom for the world, he wishes for us to fall in line.

Fifth: There is a difference in all men coming to know God through Christ as it is a RELATIONSHIP. God is the Father figure in our lives and will and does interact with his children accordingly. A one world government will not, and does not. Do I really need to illustrate the corruption of the UN to show what a "government" run by fallen men will do? Absolute power corrupts absolutely! So if you ask me whether or not I want to be subject to the powers of the UN as my "world government" I will grab my "don't tread on my flag" and tell that baby blue, beat the weapons into plow shares crowd to go stuff themselves. I don't and won't trust the UN for anything!

Maybe we have been approaching this from the wrong angle, because in truth it isn't about country, or individualism, it's about World view. I see the world through man as being corrupt and in need of a Savior. We were once in relationship with God as Father, but that relationship was severed and corrupted. Since that time our corruption has only deepend, and where man is trying to establish himself as God.

But I've got to head back to work so I'll check in later.

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September 12th, 2012, 8:22 am
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Maybe we have been approaching this from the wrong angle, because in truth it isn't about country, or individualism, it's about World view. I see the world through man as being corrupt and in need of a Savior. We were once in relationship with God as Father, but that relationship was severed and corrupted. Since that time our corruption has only deepend, and where man is trying to establish himself as God.
Perhaps...I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Peace

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September 12th, 2012, 9:59 am
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Maybe we have been approaching this from the wrong angle, because in truth it isn't about country, or individualism, it's about World view. I see the world through man as being corrupt and in need of a Savior. We were once in relationship with God as Father, but that relationship was severed and corrupted. Since that time our corruption has only deepend, and where man is trying to establish himself as God.


Man's relationship with God as Father didn't last past the first two people on Earth, it has been corrupt for all the billions of people since. Perhaps we don't need a savior, but a better creator - seems like epic fail to me. :lol:

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September 12th, 2012, 10:22 am
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
Seriously, you're gonna go there?

So let me respond, your son does something REALLY, outside the ballpark stupid, that compromises your entire relationship with him as son, so do you just kill him, then start over?

1. I doubt any child could do something so drastic, but it's an illustration.

2. Only the Muslims kill there own children for "disrespecting the faith, or family" and by NO MEANS NOT ALL MUSLIMS.

3. Why is it so hard to think that a loving father, who has ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY, could not move Heaven and Earth, to redeem his created children? Oh wait, he did! He allowed his Son Jesus to become flesh, therefore the perfect sacrifice needed to redeem all mankind. I know it's SO simple that's it's impossible to believe, but that doesn't keep it from being the truth.

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September 12th, 2012, 12:45 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Seriously, you're gonna go there?

So let me respond, your son does something REALLY, outside the ballpark stupid, that compromises your entire relationship with him as son, so do you just kill him, then start over?

1. I doubt any child could do something so drastic, but it's an illustration.

2. Only the Muslims kill there own children for "disrespecting the faith, or family" and by NO MEANS NOT ALL MUSLIMS.

3. Why is it so hard to think that a loving father, who has ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY, could not move Heaven and Earth, to redeem his created children? Oh wait, he did! He allowed his Son Jesus to become flesh, therefore the perfect sacrifice needed to redeem all mankind. I know it's SO simple that's it's impossible to believe, but that doesn't keep it from being the truth.


Sure, lets go there....

First, I can think of much more egregious sins than taking a bit out of apple.

Secondly, if if my son did something pretty awful - I'm not taking his perfect everlasting life and turning it into sin, pain and a death sentance. If you want to speak "Truth" - well the simple truth is a "loving father" wouldn't respond in this manner.

Third, you mean to tell me that no Christian man has ever killed his son for disrepspecting his faith or his family? (if you would like me to post link after link of such acts I'm happy to do so)

Fourth, remember when our loving God told Abraham to kill his son Isaac? (even if this is just a test, how cruel can you be?)

Fifth, its hard to believe that any "loving father" knowingly puts his children in harms way.

Sixth, if his "son" indeed did "redeem" all of mankind - wouldn't we go back to the same point we were at prior to the sin? Because after all this redemption I don't think we live near perfect eternal lives.

Seventh, well lets just say it isn't so simple after all. If it was, we would all know him and not need to believe in anything.

I've got a lot more points, but I'll let you rebuttal these first. Plus, this is a thread about politics isn't it? :twisted:

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September 12th, 2012, 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
Pablo wrote:
Plus, this is a thread about politics isn't it? :twisted:
It WAS :confused: :shock: ](*,)

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September 12th, 2012, 3:15 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Plus, this is a thread about politics isn't it? :twisted:
It WAS :confused: :shock: ](*,)



You have the power...you have the ability. you know you want to move it move it. :wink:

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September 12th, 2012, 3:28 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
regularjoe12 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Plus, this is a thread about politics isn't it? :twisted:
It WAS :confused: :shock: ](*,)



You have the power...you have the ability. you know you want to move it move it. :wink:


OK, lets get back to talking how Obama will be in office another 4 years and what those who call themselves conservatives/Republicans are going to do for 2016?

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September 12th, 2012, 3:45 pm
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Post Re: Dirty politics GOP style By Juan Williams
regularjoe12 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Plus, this is a thread about politics isn't it? :twisted:
It WAS :confused: :shock: ](*,)
You have the power...you have the ability. you know you want to move it move it. :wink:
While that may be, Senior Pablo es Papa Grande in these parts :wink: :mrgreen:

Lol

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September 12th, 2012, 3:47 pm
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