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Post Re: 49ers
Really? You have the choice of 49ers Dline and the Lions Dline and you're taking the 49ers? Doubt it... You'd be a fool...

49ers are a more rounded team and that is what I am getting at... The Lions are built to be dominant up front on defense and score quickly through the air on offense... We have all of our resources tied up in those 2 areas... If those players in those areas perform like they're supposed to, like what the designers of this team intended, then regardless of how balanced of a team the 49ers are, it simply won't matter... They're supposed to be THAT dominant... If they aren't then SF wins all day...[/quote]




Rodgers>>>>>>>>>stafford for one, we're at home on a Sunday night, and other than megatron green bay has the much better offense and look how we played against their offense at lambeau. Also your secondary is trash, our oline needs to play well and we'll be fine.


September 12th, 2012, 4:53 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
take away Calvin and you have nothing but we will see is it sunday yet :arrow:


September 12th, 2012, 4:55 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
5x49er wrote:
Quote:
Really? You have the choice of 49ers Dline and the Lions Dline and you're taking the 49ers? Doubt it... You'd be a fool...

49ers are a more rounded team and that is what I am getting at... The Lions are built to be dominant up front on defense and score quickly through the air on offense... We have all of our resources tied up in those 2 areas... If those players in those areas perform like they're supposed to, like what the designers of this team intended, then regardless of how balanced of a team the 49ers are, it simply won't matter... They're supposed to be THAT dominant... If they aren't then SF wins all day...
Rodgers>>>>>>>>>stafford for one, we're at home on a Sunday night, and other than megatron green bay has the much better offense and look how we played against their offense at lambeau. Also your secondary is trash, our oline needs to play well and we'll be fine.
O'rly? Doesn't seem so lately...
ESPN wrote:
On the Packers' drop in explosiveness
September, 11, 2012
By Kevin Seifert | ESPN.com

You might not believe this even if I tell you and back it up with facts and remind you that I have nothing to gain by pulling your chain.

OK, here goes.

As you probably know, the Packers are 1-3 in quarterback Aaron Rodgers' past four starts, including January's playoff loss to the New York Giants. Here is what you might not realize: Over that stretch, the Packers' downfield passing offense has plummeted to the absolute bottom of the NFL's rankings.

That's right. At this moment, no team is having a harder time being explosive than the Packers. The Packers!
Quote:
Aaron Rodgers Passing

Rodgers' stats when throwing the ball 15 yards or more downfield over the past 24 games (including the postseason).
19-game win streak Since
Comp pct 55.5 25.8*
TD-Int 18-3 2-2
Yds/att 16.5 8.1
Tot. QBR 99.2 17.4*
*NFL worst (min. 25 plays/attempts)
Source: ESPN Stats & Information

Anecdotally, I think we would all agree their offensive production has slowed since the Kansas City Chiefs ended a 19-game winning streak last December. But the drop in efficiency and production of their best attribute has been acute, and it continued into Sunday's season-opening loss to the San Francisco 49ers.

ESPN Stats & Information defines downfield throws as those that travel at least 15 yards in the air past the line of scrimmage. As the first chart shows, Rodgers' completion percentage has fallen by more than half in those situations to 25.8, and his Total Quarterback Rating (QBR) has dropped to 17.4 (on a scale of 0-100). Both figures are league lows for starters with at least 25 plays/attempts over that stretch.

In short, Rodgers and the Packers hit a wall at full speed and haven't recovered. They were setting NFL records for downfield efficiency during their winning streak, but most recently they were reduced to dumping off 20 of their 30 completions to receiver Randall Cobb and tight end Jermichael Finley (for a total of 124 yards) against the 49ers.

To be clear, a reduced ability to hit big plays shouldn't be a death knell for any team, even in a passing league. For the Packers, however, it has been their team-wide identity during one of the most successful periods in team history, and it has helped cover for deficiencies in other areas of the team. In response, the Packers must find an antidote or make substantive adjustments to their approach.

I don't expect that to be an easy job during a short week of preparation for an opponent, the Chicago Bears, that has stood up well against the Packers' downfield passing throughout Rodgers' career. As the second chart shows, Rodgers has a 65.7 passer rating on throws of 15-plus air yards against the Bears and a 102.7 passer rating against everyone else.
Quote:
Aaron Rodgers: Career passing 15+ air yards
Opponent Games* Comp. Att. Pct. Yards TD INT Rating
All but Bears 55 182 407 44.7 5,858 40 21 102.7
Bears 8 20 53 37.7 552 2 3 65.9
* Regular-season games
Source: ESPN Stats & Information

(Thanks to ESPN's Keith Hawkins, Jason Starrett and John McTigue for their research.)

Those are the facts. Naturally, the far more difficult task is understanding what has happened and how it can be fixed. There isn't likely to be one "magic bullet" answer other than to say defenses are prioritizing the deep pass and taking their chances with other aspects of the Packers' offense.

The 49ers, for one, used a secondary with exceptional man-to-man coverage skills, combined with deep safeties, to limit the Packers' downfield chances. They displayed little regard for the Packers' running game, and the Packers complied by calling only nine running plays (all to tailback Cedric Benson) and going without a running back on the field for more than half (31 of 61) of their plays.

"Their key thing was to keep us up front," said receiver Jordy Nelson, who caught five passes for 64 yards. "They don't want to give up any big plays. They did a good job of making us go the long way. That's tough against a defense like that. Going 10 yards at a time, three downs to get a first down. It makes it real tough on us. But it's going to be no different on Thursday. Chicago is going to do the same thing. They'll keep us in front."

Said Rodgers: "We didn’t have the opportunity to take a lot of shots downfield, but when we did, they made some plays on it."

Indeed, Rodgers directed three deep sideline passes in the first half of Sunday's game. None of them were ideal matchups. All were to receiver James Jones, who is talented but must be considered the Packers' third-best downfield threat after Nelson and Greg Jennings. Two of the passes fell incomplete, largely because Rodgers couldn't drop the ball into the tiniest of windows available because of coverage from cornerbacks Tarell Brown and Chris Culliver. On the third, Jones committed offensive pass interference to create space to make the catch.

(Jones did haul in a 49-yard pass in the fourth quarter to set up the Packers' final score.)

For the most part, the 49ers played their safeties deep and kept Nelson and Jennings in front of them. Case in point: Safety Dashon Goldson stymied one of the Packers' most successful downfield routes by diagnosing a play-action post to Nelson early in the third quarter.

To be clear, the 49ers might have the NFL's best defense. But even a moderate defense can take steps to take away a single weapon. If you were the Bears or anyone else, why wouldn't you play as deep as possible and challenge the Packers to beat you with short passes and a running game they sometimes ignore?

These are some of the questions the Packers must face in this short week. Do they still want to be a downfield team? Or did their extensive game plan for Cobb on Sunday indicate their planned response to defenses that sit back to take away the big play? And would that mean for a defense? Its margin for error is lower when not protected by an explosive offense.

Four games isn't a huge sample size. When it carries over from one season to the next, however, it's fair to call it a trend. But like all trends, it can be stopped, redirected or reversed. Let's see what the Packers come up with.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... losiveness

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September 12th, 2012, 5:07 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
5x49er wrote:
take away Calvin and you have nothing but we will see is it sunday yet :arrow:


Im going to file you under "not much of a football guy"

You seem to know about 1/2 the story then act like you know it all..

other than Rodgers what exactly does green bays offense have better than us???


a running game? with cedric benson? i think not.

finley & pett are a wash...

Id actually prefer our line over thiers...but they are close enough to be debatable

Calvin is light years ahead of jennings, but Nelson is light years ahead of Nate, so I'd call that a wash

But keep talkin, yer making yerself look smarter and smarter

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September 12th, 2012, 5:11 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
Murtyle wrote:
49ers wrote:
Murtyle wrote:
I think if you asked most people if they'd rather have our stars or your stars, they'd take ours.

Whoa... I don't think so. I don't think it's even close. QB and WR, advantage Lions. Pretty much everything else, advantage 49ers.


Really? You have the choice of 49ers Dline and the Lions Dline and you're taking the 49ers? Doubt it... You'd be a fool...

49ers are a more rounded team and that is what I am getting at... The Lions are built to be dominant up front on defense and score quickly through the air on offense... We have all of our resources tied up in those 2 areas... If those players in those areas perform like they're supposed to, like what the designers of this team intended, then regardless of how balanced of a team the 49ers are, it simply won't matter... They're supposed to be THAT dominant... If they aren't then SF wins all day...


Lets compare our front 4 to your front 4...

DE Avril, DT Suh, DT Fairley and DE Vanden Bosch

DE McDonald, DT Sopoaga, DE Justin Smith, OLB Aldon Smith

I'd take McDonald over Vanden Bosch, both are talented underrated ballers, but McDonald has a few more tackles and finished with 5.5 sacks which is pretty damn good for a 3-4 end.

I'd say Sopoaga is better than Fairley... mostly because I havent seen anything of Fairley, is he a run stopping DT? a pass rushing DT? I just havent seen him play. Sopoaga fills his role very well as a run stopper and line clogger. He does the dirty work. He lacks pass rush ability but shines at everything else.

I personally like Justin Smith over Suh, both are regarded as the best at their position, Suh is younger, Smith is smarter more experienced, both are incredibly strong. I really think this is a wash with most experts taking Suh because of youth and pass rush ability. Although you'd never know Smith was 30 some odd years old because he sure doesnt play like it. He is practically indestructible Smith doesnt have the same pass rush ability, but he is a dominant run stopper... 49ers had no problem running on suh last year, but we've all seen what he's done to QB's Jay Cutler, Jake Delhomme, etc lol

As far as Avril and Aldon goes... Avril strikes me as your main pass rusher, he's getting better every year and strikes me as the more rounded player. Aldon has proven himself to be an incredibly talented pass rusher, more so than Avril. At this point it comes down to what you need. Aldon is a better fit for the niners, he counters our more run stopping player in Sopoaga.

I see the Lions line as a very balanced line with no player really specializing in a particular type of play while the niners have 2 balanced DE's a run stopping DT and a pass rushing OLB.


I do have to say this... everybody thinks Patrick Willis is our best player but in reality its Justin Smith. When he got kicked out of a Chargers game for hitting a ref our Defense collapsed. Patrick Willis has been hurt before and we replace him with guys like Larry Grant and you'd never notice the difference in our D. In fact Willis sat out a couple plays against the packers while Bowman remained on the field.

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September 12th, 2012, 5:46 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
compairing a 3-4 line to a 4-3 line is kind of like compairing apples to oranges isnt it?

I mean ends in a 3 -4 arnt designed to rush the qb, but in our d (especially the wide 9) thats their sole job...

I still give the D-line edge to us,mostly due to one thing you left out....depth. 2-3 of out backup linemen could start on most teams . Hill could start on yours without a notable dropoff from Smith IMO.

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September 12th, 2012, 5:58 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
regularjoe12 wrote:
compairing a 3-4 line to a 4-3 line is kind of like compairing apples to oranges isnt it?

I mean ends in a 3 -4 arnt designed to rush the qb, but in our d (especially the wide 9) thats their sole job...

I still give the D-line edge to us,mostly due to one thing you left out....depth. 2-3 of out backup linemen could start on most teams . Hill could start on yours without a notable dropoff from Smith IMO.


It is comparing apples to oranges and I struggled trying to compare lol

I tried to compare them by their performances in their system. thats why when I got down to Cliff and Aldon I couldnt even do it lol, Avril wouldn't fit on our D really at all, and Aldon might be a little small for a DE on your team. I think Sopoaga would be useless on your team. I've never seen a more dominant lineman in a niner uniform than Justin Smith. When it comes to 3-4 lineman you really cant judge them on stats like you can 4-3 DE's or 3-4 OLB's you have to watch them on tape, and Justin is a monster just like Suh is. The day Smith is done our D will lose its dominance unless we find a viable replacement. I love Aldon Smith but in hindsight JJ Watt is like Justin Smith 2.0. If we could have landed him our D would be set for years to come. You dont find 3-4 DE like Watt, Ngata or Smith often.

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September 12th, 2012, 6:21 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
modninerfan wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
compairing a 3-4 line to a 4-3 line is kind of like compairing apples to oranges isnt it?

I mean ends in a 3 -4 arnt designed to rush the qb, but in our d (especially the wide 9) thats their sole job...

I still give the D-line edge to us,mostly due to one thing you left out....depth. 2-3 of out backup linemen could start on most teams . Hill could start on yours without a notable dropoff from Smith IMO.


It is comparing apples to oranges and I struggled trying to compare lol

I tried to compare them by their performances in their system. thats why when I got down to Cliff and Aldon I couldnt even do it lol, Avril wouldn't fit on our D really at all, and Aldon might be a little small for a DE on your team. I think Sopoaga would be useless on your team. I've never seen a more dominant lineman in a niner uniform than Justin Smith. When it comes to 3-4 lineman you really cant judge them on stats like you can 4-3 DE's or 3-4 OLB's you have to watch them on tape, and Justin is a monster just like Suh is. The day Smith is done our D will lose its dominance unless we find a viable replacement. I love Aldon Smith but in hindsight JJ Watt is like Justin Smith 2.0. If we could have landed him our D would be set for years to come. You dont find 3-4 DE like Watt, Ngata or Smith often.


Yeah, it's a tough comparison to make. the 3-4 rushing LB isn't in the same role as the DE in that spot. Also, fairley is part of the depth, actually Suh's sub and Corey Williams is the more run oriented DT with Sammie Hill as the sub there. Our DL's main strength is the depth. 3 more DEs rotate in, 2 regularly with Lawrence Jackson and Willie Young who could easily start on most teams. And then with Fairley and Hill behind the DTs, you just end up with fresh legs against your Oline the entire time. They might not dominate the line every play, but they'll wear you down, especially late in the game. That's the advantage of the line. It doesn't need superior talent when it's bringing consistent pressure.

It's a tough game to call because it's always against matchups. It's easy to figure out if everyone's in the same position, but Suh for example is playing both DT spots and some snaps at DE. How does Suh match up against Anthony Davis? It's hard to scheme for that also, without switching the formation and tipping your hand. We threw 400 some passes under 10 yards, so it's just like that screen game that you said would work so well. Our poor running game last season put that into our game plan. If the running game can't get going, expect a lot of that.

Regardless of who's beaten who, that's never a good measure of how your team matches up with the current opponent. We played recently, so you know what we do, we know what you do. It's gonna come down to every player doing their assignment and who beats who along that line. Who calls the better gameplan because I think these teams match up well.


September 12th, 2012, 7:59 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
5x49er wrote:
take away Calvin and you have nothing but we will see is it sunday yet :arrow:


Yup, this guy has just confirmed he knows nothing about football. Nothing. These are the kinds of people Id like to have a one on one conversation with on the phone, that way when I ask them a football related question, they dont have all sorts of time to look up the answer like they can on a message board.

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September 12th, 2012, 8:57 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
regularjoe12 wrote:
Throw in defense line too and I'll agree with you. I think we have a slight edge on you there as well. other than that, I'd KILL for your defense and RB situation.

Ehhhh, the reason give you that is because we run a 3-4, and you run a 4-3. That's not even comparable. Front 7 is what I rated, and I think we have that advantage because of the linebackers.

The front 4 for the Lions, however, is one of the best in the NFL for sure.

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September 12th, 2012, 8:59 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
kdsberman wrote:
5x49er wrote:
take away Calvin and you have nothing but we will see is it sunday yet :arrow:
Yup, this guy has just confirmed he knows nothing about football. Nothing. These are the kinds of people Id like to have a one on one conversation with on the phone, that way when I ask them a football related question, they dont have all sorts of time to look up the answer like they can on a message board.

Should I search all the "stop Frank Gore and the 49ers have nothing" comments that this forum posted last year? :P

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the app worked OK, but it is hard to draft while driving.


September 12th, 2012, 9:00 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
49ers wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
5x49er wrote:
take away Calvin and you have nothing but we will see is it sunday yet :arrow:
Yup, this guy has just confirmed he knows nothing about football. Nothing. These are the kinds of people Id like to have a one on one conversation with on the phone, that way when I ask them a football related question, they dont have all sorts of time to look up the answer like they can on a message board.

Should I search all the "stop Frank Gore and the 49ers have nothing" comments that this forum posted last year? :P


Yes please do it.


September 12th, 2012, 9:08 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
49ers wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
5x49er wrote:
take away Calvin and you have nothing but we will see is it sunday yet :arrow:
Yup, this guy has just confirmed he knows nothing about football. Nothing. These are the kinds of people Id like to have a one on one conversation with on the phone, that way when I ask them a football related question, they dont have all sorts of time to look up the answer like they can on a message board.

Should I search all the "stop Frank Gore and the 49ers have nothing" comments that this forum posted last year? :P


Hey we make inaccurate predictions too. Just ask how many of us said that drafting Aaron Curry in 2009 would do this team better than drafting Stafford.

Those comments last year were before the Niners got Moss, Manningham, Jacobs, etc. And before another full year of the Niners putting together a good offense. I would still say last year that if they stop Gore, they have a good chance. Things are different this year. Much different. But this 5x49er guy SHOULD know what the offense is capable of, even without Calvin, yet he still posts BS like that. Thats all im sayin.

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September 12th, 2012, 9:10 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
49ers wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
5x49er wrote:
take away Calvin and you have nothing but we will see is it sunday yet :arrow:
Yup, this guy has just confirmed he knows nothing about football. Nothing. These are the kinds of people Id like to have a one on one conversation with on the phone, that way when I ask them a football related question, they dont have all sorts of time to look up the answer like they can on a message board.

Should I search all the "stop Frank Gore and the 49ers have nothing" comments that this forum posted last year? :P


Well, in all fairness, we didn't prove that incorrect....we didn't exactly stop Gore :wink:

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September 12th, 2012, 9:29 pm
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Post Re: 49ers
kdsberman wrote:
Hey we make inaccurate predictions too. Just ask how many of us said that drafting Aaron Curry in 2009 would do this team better than drafting Stafford.

Well I wouldn't call that a prediction... more like a strategy.... but that's not the point. The point I was trying to make, is that non-Lions fans see your team as one-dimensional through 1 player (CJ) the same way non-49er fans see our team with Gore. And if it angers you and you know that to be incorrect, we feel the same way. If you take away Gore, that would be a HUGE setback, but we'd still put up numbers. I'm sure it's the same with CJ.

regularjoe12 wrote:
Well, in all fairness, we didn't prove that incorrect....we didn't exactly stop Gore :wink:

haha! Well put.

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September 12th, 2012, 9:37 pm
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