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 GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I 
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
Killwill25 wrote:
I'm glad we have a bye, next week. I can't stomach any more Lion's football. Crossman should be fired 10 minutes ago, and we could use the bye to let the new guy settle in. It just pisses me off that the defense shows up and gives up only 6pts and we still lose.



If it wasnt for the 2 P.I. Calls on Bentley those 2 FG's wouldnt have even happened. The D really stepped up....only to watch ST crap the bed..so disturbing.

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October 1st, 2012, 9:22 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
Bentley looked as if I was wrong about him in the pre season. But, that was then, this is for real. In the first 4 games, whenever the other team had to have a 1st down, they went at Bentley and got the 1st. He is now appearing to be the turd I thought he was.

We are now 1-3. Not many teams have ever come back from that and made the playoffs. Plus, we just lost to the Vikings in OUR HOUSE. They just came into our house and pulled our pants down in front of company and then stood there laughing at us.

SEASON OVER

It kills me to say that. But, @ Philly and then @ Chicago will leave us at 1-5. And Wayne Fontes isn't our HC anymore. So, I don't expect to see us win out the rest of the way to come up with a miracle finish to make the playoffs.

We're back in familiar territory. It's time to start tracking our draft pick and watching the mock drafts.

Hey MAYHEW!!!!!

You think you can finally fix the Defensive backfield for real? HUH? Until you fix it, we won't be going anywhere. And while your at it, IT MIGHT BE TIME TO FIRE THE IDIOT IN CHARGE OF SPECIAL TEAMS!!!! Apparently, he thought he had to recruit SPECIAL teams players from the local SPECIAL OLYMPICS!!!!!

RANT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


October 1st, 2012, 6:03 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
BillySims wrote:
Bentley looked as if I was wrong about him in the pre season. But, that was then, this is for real. In the first 4 games, whenever the other team had to have a 1st down, they went at Bentley and got the 1st. He is now appearing to be the turd I thought he was.

We are now 1-3. Not many teams have ever come back from that and made the playoffs. Plus, we just lost to the Vikings in OUR HOUSE. They just came into our house and pulled our pants down in front of company and then stood there laughing at us.

SEASON OVER

It kills me to say that. But, @ Philly and then @ Chicago will leave us at 1-5. And Wayne Fontes isn't our HC anymore. So, I don't expect to see us win out the rest of the way to come up with a miracle finish to make the playoffs.

We're back in familiar territory. It's time to start tracking our draft pick and watching the mock drafts.

Hey MAYHEW!!!!!

You think you can finally fix the Defensive backfield for real? HUH? Until you fix it, we won't be going anywhere. And while your at it, IT MIGHT BE TIME TO FIRE THE IDIOT IN CHARGE OF SPECIAL TEAMS!!!! Apparently, he thought he had to recruit SPECIAL teams players from the local SPECIAL OLYMPICS!!!!!

RANT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh for Christ's sake, calm the #$& down.

Bentley is a ROOKIE...OK?! He's gonna make mistakes, and that's something to be expected. It's unfortunate that he was put into a position that he has to start and face some seasoned WRs, but we pretty much knew that was going to be the case.

I agree that the Lions have to take a more focused approach to the improvement of the secondary. It's been an after thought for over a decade when it comes to the draft, and they need to start making their draft picks count more in that regard. Grabbing talent is all well and good, but when your first two picks aren't seeing the field much on game day, I consider those picks to be something of a waste, at least for that season.

What bothers me more about the three consecutive losses is the lack of urgency in the team. They don't seem like they are playing with any emotion or panic. That includes the coaches. I don't know what the heck happened after that win against St. Louis, but it seems like it just drained the life out of the whole team.

Scary thought: This team is only 14 seconds away from starting this season 0-4.

And with the comments made by Percy Harvin after the game about the kick off return, and how they planned for it....well, that is a COACHING issue, not a player issue. When the players are doing the exact same things that allowed a TD on a return the previous week, I attribute that to poor coaching and poor schemes. Any coverage scheme which RELIES on a rookie sixth round pick to get off a block to make the play, or the return is taken to the house is a BAD scheme.

Crossman is a jackhole, and he must go.

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October 2nd, 2012, 3:41 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Bentley looked as if I was wrong about him in the pre season. But, that was then, this is for real. In the first 4 games, whenever the other team had to have a 1st down, they went at Bentley and got the 1st. He is now appearing to be the turd I thought he was.

We are now 1-3. Not many teams have ever come back from that and made the playoffs. Plus, we just lost to the Vikings in OUR HOUSE. They just came into our house and pulled our pants down in front of company and then stood there laughing at us.

SEASON OVER

It kills me to say that. But, @ Philly and then @ Chicago will leave us at 1-5. And Wayne Fontes isn't our HC anymore. So, I don't expect to see us win out the rest of the way to come up with a miracle finish to make the playoffs.

We're back in familiar territory. It's time to start tracking our draft pick and watching the mock drafts.

Hey MAYHEW!!!!!

You think you can finally fix the Defensive backfield for real? HUH? Until you fix it, we won't be going anywhere. And while your at it, IT MIGHT BE TIME TO FIRE THE IDIOT IN CHARGE OF SPECIAL TEAMS!!!! Apparently, he thought he had to recruit SPECIAL teams players from the local SPECIAL OLYMPICS!!!!!

RANT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh for Christ's sake, calm the #$& down.

Bentley is a ROOKIE...OK?! He's gonna make mistakes, and that's something to be expected. It's unfortunate that he was put into a position that he has to start and face some seasoned WRs, but we pretty much knew that was going to be the case.

I agree that the Lions have to take a more focused approach to the improvement of the secondary. It's been an after thought for over a decade when it comes to the draft, and they need to start making their draft picks count more in that regard. Grabbing talent is all well and good, but when your first two picks aren't seeing the field much on game day, I consider those picks to be something of a waste, at least for that season.

What bothers me more about the three consecutive losses is the lack of urgency in the team. They don't seem like they are playing with any emotion or panic. That includes the coaches. I don't know what the heck happened after that win against St. Louis, but it seems like it just drained the life out of the whole team.

Scary thought: This team is only 14 seconds away from starting this season 0-4.

And with the comments made by Percy Harvin after the game about the kick off return, and how they planned for it....well, that is a COACHING issue, not a player issue. When the players are doing the exact same things that allowed a TD on a return the previous week, I attribute that to poor coaching and poor schemes. Any coverage scheme which RELIES on a rookie sixth round pick to get off a block to make the play, or the return is taken to the house is a BAD scheme.

Crossman is a jackhole, and he must go.


I'm perfectly calm. I have simply, over the years come to the belief that unless you draft a CB in the 1st or early second round, you will only be getting a Nickle corner AT BEST. I flat out HATE that the Lions, as an organization, going way back to the Wayne Fontes era, seems to think they can find a shutdown corner later than the first 2 rounds. Is there the occasional exception to the rule? Yes. Have the Lions ever stumbled upon that exception? NOPE! Not in my lifetime. IMHO, if you don't draft a CB in the first 2 rounds, you might as well wait until 5th round to draft one because that is where you should find your Nickle corners. To use a 3rd or 4th round pick on a nickle corner is a wasted pick IMHO. I don't see Bentley ever being better than a nickle corner. I hope I'm wrong. I hope the Lions finally tripped on a shutdown CB after the 2nd round. But, it's just a bit hard to believe that something that has never happened before will happen. Like the Super Bowl. I'll believe it when I see it with the Lions in it.


October 3rd, 2012, 1:05 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
There are always late round CBs just like every other position that excel and become top notch players, but unfortunately for the last couple decades the Lions think every mid-late round CB is going to solve the problem. Eventually the gamble needs to be taken on a potential elite CB in the 1st round.


October 3rd, 2012, 8:36 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
I don't disagree entirely, but I feel this warrants repeating. As has been said on many other threads, the Lions did try to trade up to get Peterson, but Arizona wanted too much. So it's not as if they haven't had it in mind or tried to make it happen. Sometimes things just don't fall the right way to get a first round CB.

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October 3rd, 2012, 9:20 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
sweetd20 wrote:
There are always late round CBs just like every other position that excel and become top notch players, but unfortunately for the last couple decades the Lions think every mid-late round CB is going to solve the problem. Eventually the gamble needs to be taken on a potential elite CB in the 1st round.


And likewise first and second round corners don't always become shutdown corners in the NFL. I can go back through the first 45 picks in the last five drafts, and there are probably more CB busts in those picks than ones that have emerged as good starting CBs, let alone shutdown corners.
So here's a list of those players, taken in the first 45 picks, taken over the drafts from '07 to '11

2007
D. Revis
L. Hall
A. Ross
C. Houston

2008
L. McKelvin
D. Rodgers-Cromartie
A. Talib
M. Jenkins
A. Cason
B. Flowers
T. Porter

2009
M. Jenkins
V. Davis
A. Smith
D. Butler
J. Byrd

2010
J. Haden
K. Jackson
D. McCourty
K. Wilson
P. Robinson
C. Cook

2011
P. Peterson
P. Akumara
J. Smith
R. Dowling
A. Williams

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October 3rd, 2012, 9:30 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
Corners aren't the problem. Our corners have played solid. You want to blame Bentley for the pass interference calls, fine, but they weren't the desperation type of interference calls you usually see. Both receiver and corner were battling and he got too aggressive. He wasn't beat. Even the one catch Simpson got on him, it was a perfectly thrown pass and perfectly timed jump. It wasn't like Bentley was out of position.

Our corners are responsible for two TDs. 1 on Green when he wasn't given any safety help against the Rams, and the crazy Nate Washington TD where Wendling went for the tipped ball that never got tipped instead of going for the sure touchdown.

Houston has been targeted more since he's been back then Bentley has in three games. So who are defenses focusing on? For some reason, teams think Houston is the weak link. It was the same thing last year when he was targeted more than Wright. Houston is holding QB's to a 54 rating right now.

They've given up receptions, but when you have a DL that is being told to stop the run first then get after passer, the pass rush seems slower which is going to open receivers. Catches will happen. It's where the catches happen that count.

But safety.... they are absolutely killing us. It says a lot when Silva gets signed off practice squad and had the best performance over anyone else all season at safety.

Drafting a corner only helps if Houston doesn't resign. Anyone they draft at safety starts to make an impact immediately. And safety isn't very deep this year. Maybe 2 guys worth 1st/2nd round pick than rest fall to 4th and beyond.


October 3rd, 2012, 9:32 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
njroar wrote:
Corners aren't the problem. Our corners have played solid. You want to blame Bentley for the pass interference calls, fine, but they weren't the desperation type of interference calls you usually see. Both receiver and corner were battling and he got too aggressive. He wasn't beat. Even the one catch Simpson got on him, it was a perfectly thrown pass and perfectly timed jump. It wasn't like Bentley was out of position.

Our corners are responsible for two TDs. 1 on Green when he wasn't given any safety help against the Rams, and the crazy Nate Washington TD where Wendling went for the tipped ball that never got tipped instead of going for the sure touchdown.

Houston has been targeted more since he's been back then Bentley has in three games. So who are defenses focusing on? For some reason, teams think Houston is the weak link. It was the same thing last year when he was targeted more than Wright. Houston is holding QB's to a 54 rating right now.

They've given up receptions, but when you have a DL that is being told to stop the run first then get after passer, the pass rush seems slower which is going to open receivers. Catches will happen. It's where the catches happen that count.

But safety.... they are absolutely killing us. It says a lot when Silva gets signed off practice squad and had the best performance over anyone else all season at safety.

Drafting a corner only helps if Houston doesn't resign. Anyone they draft at safety starts to make an impact immediately. And safety isn't very deep this year. Maybe 2 guys worth 1st/2nd round pick than rest fall to 4th and beyond.


=D>

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October 3rd, 2012, 12:40 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
njroar wrote:
Corners aren't the problem. Our corners have played solid. You want to blame Bentley for the pass interference calls, fine, but they weren't the desperation type of interference calls you usually see. Both receiver and corner were battling and he got too aggressive. He wasn't beat. Even the one catch Simpson got on him, it was a perfectly thrown pass and perfectly timed jump. It wasn't like Bentley was out of position.

Our corners are responsible for two TDs. 1 on Green when he wasn't given any safety help against the Rams, and the crazy Nate Washington TD where Wendling went for the tipped ball that never got tipped instead of going for the sure touchdown.

Houston has been targeted more since he's been back then Bentley has in three games. So who are defenses focusing on? For some reason, teams think Houston is the weak link. It was the same thing last year when he was targeted more than Wright. Houston is holding QB's to a 54 rating right now.

They've given up receptions, but when you have a DL that is being told to stop the run first then get after passer, the pass rush seems slower which is going to open receivers. Catches will happen. It's where the catches happen that count.

But safety.... they are absolutely killing us. It says a lot when Silva gets signed off practice squad and had the best performance over anyone else all season at safety.

Drafting a corner only helps if Houston doesn't resign. Anyone they draft at safety starts to make an impact immediately. And safety isn't very deep this year. Maybe 2 guys worth 1st/2nd round pick than rest fall to 4th and beyond.


I'll give you some things, but the "our corners are solid" line I just can't give ya. Bentley never turned to look for the ball on those 3 passes, as corner if you are running full sprint and not looking for the ball you are beat, period. Bentley never got his head around to locate the ball, because he couldn't take his eye off the receiver. That catch by Washington was a nice catch and not much that could be done on that, but you can't be serious when you say our CB's are solid? Our whole secondary is crap, Houston is above average and that's about it.

What I will give you is the DLine comment, while we are surprisingly effective against the run, we are giving up passes due to lack of pressure. I totally agree with you. No pressure gives the opposing QB and WR's time to run routes and make adjustments, which is hard for the CB's and Safeties to adjust to the longer they have to run with the WR.

We need another Houston type CB and two hard hitting, safeties that can cover the backfied, close the gap and cover ground.

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October 3rd, 2012, 10:44 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
TNLionsFanatic wrote:
and two hard hitting, safeties that can cover the backfied, close the gap and cover ground.


Heck with the hard hitting. This is 2012's NFL. We need ball hawk type safeties.

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October 3rd, 2012, 11:31 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
kdsberman wrote:
TNLionsFanatic wrote:
and two hard hitting, safeties that can cover the backfied, close the gap and cover ground.


Heck with the hard hitting. This is 2012's NFL. We need ball hawk type safeties.


Agreed. I don't want to ever see someone try to lay the wood and whiff when all they have to do is wrap them up and bring them down.


October 3rd, 2012, 11:38 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Vikings I
TNLionsFanatic wrote:
njroar wrote:
Corners aren't the problem. Our corners have played solid. You want to blame Bentley for the pass interference calls, fine, but they weren't the desperation type of interference calls you usually see. Both receiver and corner were battling and he got too aggressive. He wasn't beat. Even the one catch Simpson got on him, it was a perfectly thrown pass and perfectly timed jump. It wasn't like Bentley was out of position.

Our corners are responsible for two TDs. 1 on Green when he wasn't given any safety help against the Rams, and the crazy Nate Washington TD where Wendling went for the tipped ball that never got tipped instead of going for the sure touchdown.

Houston has been targeted more since he's been back then Bentley has in three games. So who are defenses focusing on? For some reason, teams think Houston is the weak link. It was the same thing last year when he was targeted more than Wright. Houston is holding QB's to a 54 rating right now.

They've given up receptions, but when you have a DL that is being told to stop the run first then get after passer, the pass rush seems slower which is going to open receivers. Catches will happen. It's where the catches happen that count.

But safety.... they are absolutely killing us. It says a lot when Silva gets signed off practice squad and had the best performance over anyone else all season at safety.

Drafting a corner only helps if Houston doesn't resign. Anyone they draft at safety starts to make an impact immediately. And safety isn't very deep this year. Maybe 2 guys worth 1st/2nd round pick than rest fall to 4th and beyond.


I'll give you some things, but the "our corners are solid" line I just can't give ya. Bentley never turned to look for the ball on those 3 passes, as corner if you are running full sprint and not looking for the ball you are beat, period. Bentley never got his head around to locate the ball, because he couldn't take his eye off the receiver. That catch by Washington was a nice catch and not much that could be done on that, but you can't be serious when you say our CB's are solid? Our whole secondary is crap, Houston is above average and that's about it.

What I will give you is the DLine comment, while we are surprisingly effective against the run, we are giving up passes due to lack of pressure. I totally agree with you. No pressure gives the opposing QB and WR's time to run routes and make adjustments, which is hard for the CB's and Safeties to adjust to the longer they have to run with the WR.

We need another Houston type CB and two hard hitting, safeties that can cover the backfied, close the gap and cover ground.


The head turning is a pet peeve of mine, but it depends on the coverage. Learning to read the receiver is something you pick up. This isn't college anymore, the receivers are all better. Unlike Green and corners in the past, he gets his hands in there at the right time. Ball Hawks always turn. Watch some other games and you'll see a lot of good corners playing the receiver and not the ball, and that's the difference. He is a rookie, so we all know he has things to learn.
Both pass interferences were frustrating because Simpson wasn't catching either of those.

So by solid, I meant they weren't the ones costing us the game. Lacey at the 1 or 2 would cost us. Green would cost us. Houston and Bentley aren't costing us. Add Florence to those 3 and the corner group is solid. Perfect? No. And I know Bentley will have lapses. As a rookie it's going to happen. Even the best get burned now and then.

And yes, we need two safeties, but not hard hitting unless they're built for it. The hard hitting comes against the run. We need safeties that can play the ball. They take better angles and get themselves in better position to make plays. The hard hitters don't do that. Taylor Mays is a hard hitter and always out of position. There are no more Ronnie Lotts in the world. But then again, Ronnie was a converted corner.

That might be an option, but not Amari Speivey option, but corners that have actually played safety in college and can play both. With our injury issues, it all would be solved by players that could swap either way. Would actually confuse offenses. I think that's what made Peterson such an attractive draft option for the front office.


October 3rd, 2012, 11:49 pm
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