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 GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I 
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Post GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Post all your thoughts about the presidential debate in this thread.

Who wins, who loses, and most importantly who wins the undecided voters over???

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October 3rd, 2012, 5:54 pm
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Just finished watching the debate and I think Romney did better. He was more aggressive and came off as more fired up than Obama did. I think it was a good performance by him and will definitely fire up the republicans for him.

My bet is that Obama comes back and does much better in the next debate, and then it's a toss up in the last one.

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October 3rd, 2012, 10:48 pm
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
I'll save everyone's time:

Obama will win.

The Presidency is an overrated posistion anyway.


October 3rd, 2012, 11:43 pm
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Blue,

Aren't you English? So are you comparing the Presidency to the Queen? She's just a figured isn't she? It's the PM, House of Lords and Commons that do most of the work isn't it? Just curious.

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October 4th, 2012, 7:57 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Gotta give Romney credit, he certainly took round one pretty decisively.

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October 4th, 2012, 9:28 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Pablo wrote:
Post all your thoughts about the presidential debate in this thread.

Who wins, who loses, and most importantly who wins the undecided voters over???
Corporations win. Public loses. Undecided are still undecided.

Romney came out firing, but still didn't give many, if any, specifics on his many plans. Obama looked rusty and will be better prepared for part deux.

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October 4th, 2012, 9:55 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
All debates prove is who the better liar is.


October 4th, 2012, 10:00 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
BillySims wrote:
All debates prove is who the better liar is.


This

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October 4th, 2012, 2:02 pm
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Blue,

Aren't you English? So are you comparing the Presidency to the Queen? She's just a figured isn't she? It's the PM, House of Lords and Commons that do most of the work isn't it? Just curious.


Born and raised in the US.

But to answer your question, in the parliamentary system the PM and the house of commons does most of the work of governing. The monarch is purely symbolic, and the House of Lords has little power left I believe.

My point about the Presidency is that it's simply a vastly overrated office. Yes, whoever holds it is perhaps the most powerful person on earth. But, the way the system is setup, there's really not much difference in the outcomes.

Romney or Obama simply can't govern all that much differently. To get where they are, they had to go through a nomination process which naturally screens anyone out with "radical" ideas (Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich for example). Now, they have to win a general election, further ensuring that they water-down their ideology.

And, once they get in office, they have limited political capital. Hell, they might get no capital at all. Obama has able to accomplish virtually nothing since 2010. If he were to get re-elected but face a Republican House/Senate, it's unlikely he'd be able to get much done in a second term.

Think about it, what did Obama really do in office?

Bailout the auto companies/banks (GWB started this process...most Republicans were on board)
Passed a stimulus bill (lots of Republicans on board)
Invade Libya (lots of Republicans on board)
Pass Obamacare (extremely watered down version of the socialist system I'm sure Obama would've liked)

...and that's pretty much it. He accomplished about 4 things, only one of which was notably liberal.

Likewise, if Romney should win, he'll probably get to enact about 3 or 4 minor things.

What I'm trying to say, bottom line, is that who holds the Presidency is of very little importance to your life. The balance of power in congress, or who your local politicians are much more important.

That's why I'm amazed that people get so worked up over it. The other parts of the ballot are much more consequential.

But, back to what you said as a symbol. Ironically I think most of the President's power does, in fact, come from symbolism -- setting the tone for the country, so-to-speak. What they can actually do is very limited when you actually think about it objectively.


October 4th, 2012, 11:50 pm
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Blueskies wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Blue,

Aren't you English? So are you comparing the Presidency to the Queen? She's just a figured isn't she? It's the PM, House of Lords and Commons that do most of the work isn't it? Just curious.


Born and raised in the US.

But to answer your question, in the parliamentary system the PM and the house of commons does most of the work of governing. The monarch is purely symbolic, and the House of Lords has little power left I believe.

My point about the Presidency is that it's simply a vastly overrated office. Yes, whoever holds it is perhaps the most powerful person on earth. But, the way the system is setup, there's really not much difference in the outcomes.

Romney or Obama simply can't govern all that much differently. To get where they are, they had to go through a nomination process which naturally screens anyone out with "radical" ideas (Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich for example). Now, they have to win a general election, further ensuring that they water-down their ideology.

And, once they get in office, they have limited political capital. Hell, they might get no capital at all. Obama has able to accomplish virtually nothing since 2010. If he were to get re-elected but face a Republican House/Senate, it's unlikely he'd be able to get much done in a second term.

Think about it, what did Obama really do in office?

Bailout the auto companies/banks (GWB started this process...most Republicans were on board)
Passed a stimulus bill (lots of Republicans on board)
Invade Libya (lots of Republicans on board)
Pass Obamacare (extremely watered down version of the socialist system I'm sure Obama would've liked)

...and that's pretty much it. He accomplished about 4 things, only one of which was notably liberal.

Likewise, if Romney should win, he'll probably get to enact about 3 or 4 minor things.

What I'm trying to say, bottom line, is that who holds the Presidency is of very little importance to your life. The balance of power in congress, or who your local politicians are much more important.

That's why I'm amazed that people get so worked up over it. The other parts of the ballot are much more consequential.

But, back to what you said as a symbol. Ironically I think most of the President's power does, in fact, come from symbolism -- setting the tone for the country, so-to-speak. What they can actually do is very limited when you actually think about it objectively.


I completely agree. The President sets the tone and is supposed to lead. They can set goals and have final veto power, but they don't make laws.

Obama's problem was that he had a chance to build political capital his first two years, but as Rahm said "We have the votes, F*ck em", his approach to pushing Obamacare killed any hope for cooperation until the election. It's an unmentioned courtesy that you should at least include the other side even if you don't need them or it will be used against you when the advantage is lost. And thus 2010 until now happened.

If Obama wins and the Repubs still own House or Senate, expect more of the same unless he seriously tries to appease them. If Romney wins, he'll have a chance to make things work. If the Repubs somehow control all three and he does the same thing Obama did, once Dems get control of something it'll continue.

Political capital isn't given easily. Obama got what he asked for by shutting out the other side in an undertaking as big as healthcare. A phony televised meeting, that said "you're not in power, so you'll accept what we give you" isn't how to work in the system of DC. If he wins, Romney needs to bridge the gap quick, or it won't change anytime soon.

As for the debate, what the dem pundits said about it says it all. Bill Maher saying Obama looks like he needs a teleprompter is bad. Andrew Sullivan saying it was disastrous and could have cost the election is devastating. MSNBC were all shaking their heads. Al Gore blamed it on the altitude...


October 5th, 2012, 12:20 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Blue:

I watched some of the debate, like the first 20 minute, 15 minute topic, and then I shut it off, because I really didn't want to get all worked up about it. Having said that, my impression having watched that part was that Romney showed vision, and passion, and a deep desire for the position, and the experience to run this country. Obama seemed less interested, less engaged, and was just trying to continue to tarnish Romney with supposed misinformation. I didn't see any passion, or vision from our President, and that's what a leader does. He has a vision and he communicates it to those underneath his position and then he steps back and encourages people to get on board and keep going.

From all appearances, one is a leader, the other and organizer and this country will only pull out of the tailspin, IF a leader can show us the way. That means tough times ahead, difficult choices, tightening of the belt and so on. From all I hear of Reagan's Presidency is that his frist two years were brutal, but then it suddenly started to flip, and the next two years were such a complete difference that it allowed him to win in a landslide, against Mondale.

To your previous point, the President sits judges on the bench and with many of those who now occupy a bench, they have a well noted agenda. So instead of interpeting the law, they legislate from the bench, so out of a 1/3 power system for each, 2/3 thirds side with the President (probably not that much but you get the idea), and then when you mix in Congress, the HOR is the only voted officials that are not in the Liberal agenda. So most of the power sits in Obama's pocket, and when you mix in a national media that is obviously Liberal, they tend to sway the hearts and minds of those who are incapable or just don't care to do the research.

The only thing that has rescued us to this point is the Constitution and how our government was set up, but even now parts of that have been side stepped or ignored because it doesn follow the course that has been set by our current President.

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October 5th, 2012, 8:56 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Unemployment just fell to 7.8% (lowest since Jan 09'), good news for Obama's reelection bid.

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October 5th, 2012, 10:03 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Pablo wrote:
Unemployment just fell to 7.8% (lowest since Jan 09'), good news for Obama's reelection bid.


I read that as well and thought the same thing.

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October 5th, 2012, 10:40 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Pablo wrote:
Unemployment just fell to 7.8% (lowest since Jan 09'), good news for Obama's reelection bid.


Except that the numbers don't add up. It would have taken 575k jobs added this month to drop that amount. It added 114k.

Revisions and increasing participation rate are manipulations like we expect from Chicago.


October 5th, 2012, 11:23 am
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Post Re: GAMEDAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney Debate I
Actually upon further inspection, it's not even a numbers manipulation that caused the drop, but simply gaming the system.

They surveyed people who left the workforce, and found 800k people who found work. That is good news by itself, but the problem is since they left the workforce, they weren't included in the unemployment %. To be accurate you have to add them to the workforce, which would have increased the unemployment %, and then add them as jobs, which would be a wash.

The arithmetic doesn't add up and the American people aren't that stupid.


October 5th, 2012, 11:39 am
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