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 Zeitgeist 
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Post Zeitgeist
This is a film very well thought out and in the past decade of my life outside the Detroit Lions, reinforces several of the ideas I've had that are very very far outside the lines.

I dare you to watch it, Netflix has it, Amazon has it.

I dare you to have an open mind, and post your thoughts here

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October 7th, 2012, 1:16 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Mostly bogus, partially true. Kinda like a Michael Moore film but more entertaining.

Whatever you do, don't watch the second one -- that's just all crap.


October 7th, 2012, 3:59 pm
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
what's the premise without giving the plot or movie away?

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October 7th, 2012, 7:19 pm
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Blueskies wrote:
Mostly bogus, partially true. Kinda like a Michael Moore film but more entertaining.

Whatever you do, don't watch the second one -- that's just all crap.


What part do you think is bogus? the zodiac theory and pagan symbolism appear to be historically accurate. The second one I have believed to be true since shortly after it happened, same with WWII and WWI - And don't get me started on the 3rd one and the monetary system.... just sayin

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October 7th, 2012, 10:32 pm
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
WarEr4Christ wrote:
what's the premise without giving the plot or movie away?



It is a documentary - 3 parts. First part systematically breaks down organized religion. The second part challenges the accuracy of the media reports following 9/11 , the bombing of pearl harbor, and some ship that sunk that got the U.S. into WWI. Part 3 is a depiction of the faults with the monetary system which, according to the documentary and other histoircal documentation is set up to fail.

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October 7th, 2012, 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Ferris wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Mostly bogus, partially true. Kinda like a Michael Moore film but more entertaining.

Whatever you do, don't watch the second one -- that's just all crap.


What part do you think is bogus? the zodiac theory and pagan symbolism appear to be historically accurate. The second one I have believed to be true since shortly after it happened, same with WWII and WWI - And don't get me started on the 3rd one and the monetary system.... just sayin


No real need for me to break it down here. Just google around. The movie offended enough people to generate quite a few scholarly rebuttals.

The movie's basic premise is "you are being lied to."

Part I says Christianity is crap and a direct plaugerism of early pagan religions
Part II questions the official 9/11 story
Part III talks about the Fed, the monetary system, the financial system, etc.

Entertaining movie. Everyone should give it a whirl but lots of hard and fast with the facts (ala Moore).


October 7th, 2012, 11:05 pm
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Ferris wrote:
This is a film very well thought out and in the past decade of my life outside the Detroit Lions, reinforces several of the ideas I've had that are very very far outside the lines.

I dare you to watch it, Netflix has it, Amazon has it.

I dare you to have an open mind, and post your thoughts here
First I've heard of it; sounds interesting, will have to check it out some time. Thx!

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October 8th, 2012, 10:02 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist


nobody was pissed off, so I can only assume nobody watched. Cuz I'd be pissed if I just found out what I spent my whole life obsessing over was really a lie.

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October 29th, 2012, 2:14 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Well while I didn't watch the movie that screen shot alone tells me they didn't do enough homework. While Christ's birthday is celebrated on dec. 25th, it's pretty common knowlegde that it's not the day he was actually born. I suddenly lost interest in what they have to say...


October 29th, 2012, 3:42 pm
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
regularjoe12 wrote:
Well while I didn't watch the movie that screen shot alone tells me they didn't do enough homework. While Christ's birthday is celebrated on dec. 25th, it's pretty common knowlegde that it's not the day he was actually born. I suddenly lost interest in what they have to say...


I guess if you mean 0 AD (jan. 1, 0A.D.) when the precession of the equinox changed ages during it's 2160 year cycle, then yes, The bible lies. Common knowledge? enlighten me.

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October 30th, 2012, 12:23 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Ferris wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
Well while I didn't watch the movie that screen shot alone tells me they didn't do enough homework. While Christ's birthday is celebrated on dec. 25th, it's pretty common knowlegde that it's not the day he was actually born. I suddenly lost interest in what they have to say...


I guess if you mean 0 AD (jan. 1, 0A.D.) when the precession of the equinox changed ages during it's 2160 year cycle, then yes, The bible lies. Common knowledge? enlighten me.

Ferris, the items outlined in this video aren't new news. They have been discussed over and over, on this board and many other places. I think that's what regularjoe12 means by it being "common knowledge". I'm not trying to belittle you or anything like that, just pointing out that while I understand this may be new to you, it's not new to people who have been looking at religion for a long time. My contention is that the writers of the bible adapted stories (that had been around for centuries) to their own times. They added a few of their own twists, and voila, new belief system. That said, none of that matters to christian believers. Simply because they believe and they have faith. Neither of those require evidence, at least not physical evidence. When a person truly believes something to be true, they will adapt or rationalize any set of circumstances to be justification for said beliefs. We see it all the time with every religion. This is primarily why I am no longer religious after having been raised in a Catholic household. I saw that things that didn't make sense to me, and when I questioned them, I wasn't presented with evidence, I was told that this is just how they are and that I should have faith. Then as I got older, and I looked more into it myself, I saw it truly to be just that: a matter of faith and belief. Either a person believes or they don't. It's not a matter of evidence or anything like that. No rational argument will ever sway a true believer, because they can always find ways to fit circumstances to their belief system. Or, if all else fails, they simply say "I don't believe that". I've seen this multiple times with my own family. Just recently in a discussion with my Mom, in an attempt to simply inform her of the science behind a few things, she refused to even consider that science could have discovered new things that contradict long-standing positions of the church. Her response was simply: "I don't believe that". When I asked why she didn't believe, she said "because I don't". End of story. This is a similar position to many people who are religious, and is why I don't try to change anyone's mind. If someone asks why I do or don't believe something, I'll explain why, but only from the standpoint of trying to inform them, not change their mind. Trying to change a believer's mind is a futile effort in my opinion.

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October 30th, 2012, 1:28 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Thanks for posting, but as RegJoe said, the moment they came out with Jesus being born on 12/25 they lost the credibility. On top of that if you are looking back to AD or the year zero as your starting point, I don't believe that is factual either. (I haven't researched that last part, so I won't lay claim that my opinion is truth). The calendar is an invention of man, ie Caesar really, used to denote time, and seasons. I have not read any point of Scripture that makes mention of days or months. What I have read are certain festival times, done in particular times of the year as means for celebrations, and that's generally old testament.

One point that I'd like to make, and KEEP IN MIND I DID NOT WATCH THIS, is that a lot of effort is being made to prove that Satan does not exists. Truth has now become situational, and the demand for a common truth, which has generally been a Biblical based truth standard, is now seen as intolerant. The funny thing about "tolerance" is that it's a one way street. It's preached as if it's small, furry, woodland creatures, unicorns and rainbows, but as soon as truth interrupts that false belief, the teeth come out and I'm intolerant.

If you would really like to get an accurate reading on timelines, there is a website and 1 hour dvd that you can get that will give you an ACCURATE timeline of many of the common truths, myths, and stories known to man, including the birth, and death of Jesus.

The Bethlehem star project has done a fantastic job of using known science, and astronomy, and the laws of physics to back date and pin point commonly known stories. Here take a look for yourself:

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/

and here is an 8 minute video that is an introductory video and contains some of what he's talking about. I have seen the video and the science backs up the Scriptural stories, it is amazing. I hope you enjoy it, it's very informative......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MP7Kl1_Y4Q

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October 30th, 2012, 8:27 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
TDJ:

I read through your response, and I wanted to add something that you may not be aware of, and I wasn't until recently. What is interesting is that American Christianity, in fact any Judeo Christian religion outside of the Jewish thinking, is and can only look at Scripture half way.

Case in point:

The Bible was written by over 40 men of all educational levels, from 4 different continents, over the course of 1600 years I think it was.... But they were Jewish, or understood the Jewish mindset, but I believe the first statement to be true in that they were Jewish.

Now here's the interesting party:

Jewish thinking and translation is CONCRETE, based upon fact and written as such.

Non-Jewish or "Greek" thinking is analytical, and is also based upon fact but it disects what is written, translates it, and then brings the knowledge out.

Case in point:

Take a frog for instance.

For us to understand a frog we take a dead one, staple it to a board and disect it, learning what each part does, what it had for food, what each muscle does, how big the brain is and so on.

In Jewish thinking they immerse themselves in the environment and look at things literally. The frogs life is documented so that they know where it likes to live, what it likes to eat, what's it's favorite lilly pad, girlfriend, life cycles etc.

Can you see the difference? The difference is context, one literal one analytical, both correct just different.

Now apply that to our critical thinking especially in the US. How many people have said, I will not believe unless I see? What if they are misinterpreting what they see, because they don't realize they see it?
Ray Vander laan is a high school teacher in Grand Rapids, he's also a Pastor from the Dutch Reformed church, and a Rabbi. He has gone to great lengths to explain Scripture through the context of the Jewish perspective to American Christians, therefore illustrating a whole new perspective that we could not see before. It is amazing.

Case in point #2, in Genesis the opening Scriptures speak of the Spirit hovering over the waters, and many including myself thought that meant a large mass of water from which earth was formed. But in Jewish thinking the waters, or the deep depending how it's translated, actually refers to CHAOS. What is space, especially the origin but "chaos." Now think of the arguments that have been generated by the big bang theory. I've participated in them so I know how heated they can become. But the big bang theory is one of CHAOS!!!

Can you see the perspectives? It's quite amazing, and if any of you are interested in Ray's cd's I'll make copies and send them out free of charge, just PM me and give me an address.

Be blessed fellas and thanks for being hungry, the truth is out there we just have to be willing to look.

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October 30th, 2012, 8:47 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Be blessed fellas and thanks for being hungry, the truth is out there we just have to be willing to look.


So are we to assume you are also "willing to look"? What did you think of the video or did you not watch it?

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October 30th, 2012, 10:01 am
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Post Re: Zeitgeist
Actually, I did look for a little while, but what is the context of "look"?

Are you asking me to look in order that I might question what I already know from personal experience? I'll look, and did for a little bit, and if time permits I'll go back and look some more. But I happen to find it interesting the amount of audacity, pride, and mere rebellion that we finite humanity, have towards an infinite God who is not bound by the laws of physics, gravity, yadda, yadda, yadda. If nothing else, POTUS has shown us very clearly that he's not bound by the law of the land, even though he's authored one of them. (sorry had to throw that in there :P).

Seriously though, we are finite, and we are proud and do have an audacious attitude when it comes to God, based upon our huan thinking. Just because we can't believe it, it must not be true, and we'll kick over any stone in order to find a modicum of proof to support our corrupted thinking, because the alternative would mean that we're actually responsible for the evil we commit, and therefore punishable according to what's written. Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant, and many who declare there is no God, do so because the concept of a God would shatter the safe, secure framework of our own little worlds we've created for ourselves.

And we may want to reign this topic in and move it to the Christianity thread if we keep down these lines, just because I really don't want to be verbally assualted for changing the thread, for having brought in SCIENTIFIC information that confirms Scripture, stories, and myths and puts them in a new perspective. But I'll leave that up to the room, and I'll get back to you with questions and observations about the rest of this group of peoples thinking on God.

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October 30th, 2012, 12:00 pm
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