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 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
TheRealWags wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
@ Wags: C'mere You! Group hug!!!

Couldn't find the emoticon sorry
Then Wags would be.......

Sulu (George Takei)?
Well heelllllllooooooooo! Lol
Image


I was having a crappy day today, but that made me laugh. Thanks! :mrgreen: :lol:


September 28th, 2012, 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Fellas:

We've discussed many things and turned them all sorts of ways to get different perspectives, but I must say that this has got to be the best discription of why, and what God the Father did for mankind.

This is a 10 minute video called the bridge, and it's done as an allegory in hopes that we can see the emotion, and the choices that needed to be made, in order that humanity could be rescued. I MUST WARN YOU this video is painful to watch, especially as a father, but the truth is deep.

I would appreciate you take a few minutes to view it, so that we can discuss the thoughts behind it. It's not a religious video, so you're not going to be bombarded with religious symetry, but it is a very strong allegory, and I think it bears much meaning. Would you take a look?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oZYi1j_Z8g

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Last edited by TheRealWags on October 11th, 2012, 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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October 11th, 2012, 11:04 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Thanks for making me get all choked up.

Powerful




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October 11th, 2012, 2:42 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
The interesting thing about this movie, and the allegory that it seems to represent is that Humanity had a beautiful relationship with our Heavenly Father at one time. But just like the boy we were separated from our Heavenly Father and the only way we could be "saved" was at the cost of His own. Jesus had to become one of us, in order that he could be the final atonement for us all.

I've done a LITTLE research on some of the other known world religions and what strikes me is the comparison between them and Him. What I mean is: Buddha says that he would SHOW you the way to enlightenment, Jesus said, "I AM the way, and the TRUTH, and the Light." I forget some of the rest right off hand but I'll try to look them up, so we can do a side by side.

But what catches my interest is not what he did, or professed, but what he said. What do we, all of humanity, do about what he said? He being Jesus!

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 11th, 2012, 3:09 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Quote:
I've done a LITTLE research on some of the other known world religions and what strikes me is the comparison between them and Him. What I mean is: Buddha says that he would SHOW you the way to enlightenment, Jesus said, "I AM the way, and the TRUTH, and the Light." I forget some of the rest right off hand but I'll try to look them up, so we can do a side by side.



Thats close W4C but not quite right.

the path to enlightment and peace in Buddism is through the self.
whereas in Christianity it's through Jesus.

But then Im nitpicking... :wink:

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October 11th, 2012, 3:25 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
regularjoe12 wrote:
Quote:
I've done a LITTLE research on some of the other known world religions and what strikes me is the comparison between them and Him. What I mean is: Buddha says that he would SHOW you the way to enlightenment, Jesus said, "I AM the way, and the TRUTH, and the Light." I forget some of the rest right off hand but I'll try to look them up, so we can do a side by side.



Thats close W4C but not quite right.

the path to enlightment and peace in Buddism is through the self.
whereas in Christianity it's through Jesus.

But then Im nitpicking... :wink:



And Buddha didn't die as the perfect sacrifice to atone for your sins.


October 11th, 2012, 6:29 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Genuine question this, I'm not being facetious I promise: why is Jesus' "sacrifice" said to be so great? He knew he would get resurrected, he knew he would have eternal life and he knew that he would save all of mankind. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If he hadn't have done it, it'd have been a bit selfish, no? So why all the praise for doing it?

It's made out to be the biggest ever sacrifice. Around us we see bigger sacrifices every day of people putting their lives at risk, to save one person, with no guarantee of resurrection.


October 12th, 2012, 8:01 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Actually it's a very good question and thank you for asking it. If you go through the Gospels you see that for the majority of Jesus' life he was not fully aware of his mission. What I mean is, up until the age of twelve-ish (normal for Jewish boys) he was a normal child. But then when his parents made the pilgrimage to the temple, he was left behind. During that time, he learned, listened and debated many of the "pastors and teachers" of the day.

Now fast forward to the time of John the Baptists, and Jesus is Baptised. At that moment, as pointed out by many recorded witnesses in the Bible, God spoke, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased." After that point Jesus was taken away to the "desert" for a period of fasting and training. Then came the 3 temptations.

After returning from this, Jesus goes to the wedding feast, and his mother KNOWING who he was, called upon him to do something about the lack of wine. Jesus stated, but my time has not yet come, but then performed the miracle of water into wine.

Now my chronological record may be off, because I don't have my Bible here at work, nor the time to research it, so I'm going off of memory. But it is my opinion that once God announced who Jesus was, and Jesus knew who he was in flesh, then his ministry started, and his power to conduct miracles began.

So what makes Jesus so special is that he had to become one of us, human, live and endure the same struggles that we go through, and still remain pure. He did it by the power, and authority given to him by His Heavenly Father. So when the time came for his crucifixion, he was pure and blameless before God. At that moment, the sins of the world, past, present, and future were laid upon him. He bore the guilt for all that we've done, and do, or will do. Sin requires a blood sacrifice to purify, as seen by Jewish culture over the course of time. The blood covers the stain of sin, or better yet acts as a filter. Kind of like the red lense glasses that filter out all the red dots so you can see the green secret code word.

So when Jesus says, "I am the way" that means IF we come to Him by faith, and accept his offer of forgiveness, by faith, He will forgive us, and that's where the relationship starts.

Remember our discussion about if your spouse steps out of the marriage bounds, but because of your love for her you don't wish to let her go, IF she comes to you and apologizes and changes her ways, the relationship can rebuild. But if she doesn't the relationship dies.... We are the "spouse" in this picture, we committed the infidelity through rebellion, and we've born the pain ever since.

So really it's not Selfish, as much as it's the truest act of SelfLESSness the world has ever seen. The only other thing close would be those in the military who've honorably given their lives so their buddies could live. It's beautiful and painful in the same breath!

I hope that helps!

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 12th, 2012, 9:06 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
UK Lion wrote:
Genuine question this, I'm not being facetious I promise: why is Jesus' "sacrifice" said to be so great? He knew he would get resurrected, he knew he would have eternal life and he knew that he would save all of mankind. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If he hadn't have done it, it'd have been a bit selfish, no? So why all the praise for doing it?

It's made out to be the biggest ever sacrifice. Around us we see bigger sacrifices every day of people putting their lives at risk, to save one person, with no guarantee of resurrection.

I see where you are comming from, but saying it like that is similar to saying that it should be expected that Oprah should buy us all new cars. She has the money, it wouldnt hurt her a bit, so that would be no sacrifice on her behalf....

Jesus didnt HAVE to come down and suffer like he did. Like you said, he knew it was comming, and he knew it was comming from the very people he was trying to redeem. He could have opted to leave things as they are and keep with the status quo, and stay with a system that would darn near guarentee no one makes it into heaven. The big sacrifice comes from the beating he took from people when he clearly didn't have to do so. Did you see passions of the Christ? God or no that guy took a BEATING! When you consider he could have just stayed on his throan and said "well i guess they're screwed", you get an idea of the sacrifice he made.

As for your anaolgy about regular people dying being a bit more of a sacrifice, if you are saying there is a god and a heaven, dont those people have the same eternal life as jesus? Just cuz he had the power of resurection doesn't change the idea that the eternal life part is the afterlife. Actually living kinda sucked for the man, it's the afterlife that is the reward/everlasting life.


Hope that made as much sense to you as it does in my head O:)

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October 12th, 2012, 9:16 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
UK Lion wrote:
Genuine question this, I'm not being facetious I promise: why is Jesus' "sacrifice" said to be so great? He knew he would get resurrected, he knew he would have eternal life and he knew that he would save all of mankind. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If he hadn't have done it, it'd have been a bit selfish, no? So why all the praise for doing it?

It's made out to be the biggest ever sacrifice. Around us we see bigger sacrifices every day of people putting their lives at risk, to save one person, with no guarantee of resurrection.


and in the 9th hour in a loud voice Jesus proclaimed "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" Sounds like even Jesus had questions about his dad when it all came down to it...

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October 12th, 2012, 10:14 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
Genuine question this, I'm not being facetious I promise: why is Jesus' "sacrifice" said to be so great? He knew he would get resurrected, he knew he would have eternal life and he knew that he would save all of mankind. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If he hadn't have done it, it'd have been a bit selfish, no? So why all the praise for doing it?

It's made out to be the biggest ever sacrifice. Around us we see bigger sacrifices every day of people putting their lives at risk, to save one person, with no guarantee of resurrection.


and in the 9th hour in a loud voice Jesus proclaimed "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" Sounds like even Jesus had questions about his dad when it all came down to it...


Depends on what you mean...

He never doubted the existance of the father, but it did apear that in a moment of anguish he wasn't sure what the whole plan was, I'll give you that.

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October 12th, 2012, 10:25 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
EXCELLENT!

I'm glad you asked that Pablo!

Imagine this scenario, and it may be a bit of a stretch but go with it. Imagine you and your son are dressed in your best white tuxes, your other son, the devilish one has chosen to go play in the mud outside. Your one son, seeing where his brother is going, intercepts him, but in the process gets filthy dirty. He knows the gravity of the situation, he knows that he isn't supposed to be dirty, but it's too late, he's filthy. So he come's running, crying to you, Dad, his hero. But you can't get dirty, you're in your lily white tux too, so as soon as you seem coming you try to intercept him. It pains you because you want to comfort your heartbroken son, but you can't touch him or you'll both be soiled.
Do you see the co-relation?

God, is pure and holy, sin is foul! Because mankind could not save itself, the sacrifice had to come from a "sacrificial lamb" that was pure as well. You've said that you are friends with many Jewish people, and that you know something of their beliefs so let me ask you this. When the Jews used to (I'm unsure if they still do) perform the the sacrifice of atonement once a year, a sacrificial lamb was brought it. It was a lamb without blemish or defect, it was perfect. Then the person bringing that lamb had his sins transferred to that lamb via ceremony, and the lamb was slaughtered.

Jesus is the Lamb of God, he was perfect in that he did not sin. He offered himself up to be that sacrifice for mankind, because in our sinful nature we could not do it ourselves. So in the 9th hour he is calling out to his father, asking why have you forsaken me. Their relationship has been severed because of the sin of the world laid upon him. God can not associate with sin, nor have it in his presence. So His son, who is now laiden with sin, can not be in his presence. Thus the statement!

When Jesus arose on the third day, he was restored to his rightful place as the Son of God, and he is the first of many brothers and sisters. This is why I speak of relationship so much! Jesus says, I no longer call you friend, but instead call you brothers. That means that when I choose to accept Jesus into my life, and I CHOOSE to change things about my life that conflict with that relationship, I am adopted into the family of God. I become a "son of God" via Jesus, and therefore we are in relationship. Make sense?

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October 12th, 2012, 10:38 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
UK,

I think another thing that may be missing in your question is the interpretation or context.

Of all that sacrifices that has gone on, and I think of the military more specifically, the circumstances are different. In the case of Jesus there was a trial, a judgement, and then a reversal of judgment and finally a wash by the governing authority. Jesus did not deserve the trial, there was proven to be no facts for which he deserved what they wanted which was death. Ultimately, he was crucified for all of humanity. I think the difference here is as if all of humanity was standing before a firing squad, and we are guilty and deserving of the penalty, no matter how good we are or have been, and Jesus says, "Wait, I'll take that bullet!" and did.

The difference I see here is in the context, in that in a military setting someone is making a split decision out of reaction and love, and it ultimately costs them their lives. Jesus made a decision because if He did not do what needed to be done, humanity could never be good enough to close the void between us and God. Does this make sense?

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 13th, 2012, 10:13 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
UK Lion wrote:
Genuine question this, I'm not being facetious I promise: why is Jesus' "sacrifice" said to be so great? He knew he would get resurrected, he knew he would have eternal life and he knew that he would save all of mankind. Seems like a no-brainer to me. If he hadn't have done it, it'd have been a bit selfish, no? So why all the praise for doing it?

It's made out to be the biggest ever sacrifice. Around us we see bigger sacrifices every day of people putting their lives at risk, to save one person, with no guarantee of resurrection.



UK....we all die, right? We all know it's coming, but yet most every person alive fears it. How would you choose to die? Would you choose to go quietly, without pain, in your sleep at a ripe old age after having been able to live a healthy, comfortable life? Or would you choose to be tortured, whipped, beaten for days before being hoisted onto a cross, ridiculed by soldiers, speared in the side, and being given nothing to drink while on that cross but vinegar from a soiled sponge?

Knowing that He was going to be resurrected didn't prevent Jesus' human side from wanting to avoid the pain that would come to him. Even in the Garden, just prior to His arrest, Jesus questioned His Father, wanting to know if there wasn't some other way to go about this. I don't know that Jesus feared death. I think He simply didn't want to go through all the suffering prior to it, just like any of us.

As for the "my God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" question, I would lend that to Jesus wanting His Father to take away His pain and allow His death. Jesus was still in His human form, and still felt pain. I think at that point (or well before it) any person would be asking for release from their pain.

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October 15th, 2012, 9:44 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Yesterday, our interim Pastor was speaking out of the book of Matthew in which the Bible talked about the time when two men would be working in the field and one would be taken and one would not. The point was that WHEN the time comes, there will be people who just come up "missing". As I thought about this, I thought about all of you whom I'm praying for, and I wanted you to know that I have no power, or authority of my own. But my heart is so burdened for you to see the Love of God through me, that I have chosen to bear that burden in hopes that one day you too, could be welcomed into the family. God does not love me any more than he loves you, or than he would love any human that walks this Earth. He came for all men, whether they were Communist, Muslim, satanists, or whichever label we could place on one another. We each bear the image of God in human form, according to our design, and we all have the availability to be children of God, despite the hurts and struggles we've gone through in life.

Even though no man, nor angel knows the day or the hour with which the return of Christ is coming, I wanted you each to know that I am doing all that I can to bring your names and lives before the one who can do something. It is my self-imposed responsibility to do the work, and my hope that the results will be a blessing to us all.

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October 15th, 2012, 10:39 am
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