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 Trying to fix run game 
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
Ferris wrote:
With the concussion history I don't think Best should be ALLOWED to play football anymore. Get rid of him before he becomes part of the lawsuit.

He could come back, and play some good games, but he risking the rest of his life to do so, and he is a huge red light for the rest of the NFL. I want him back as much as anyone, but not to see the man go through it all over again.

I agree with M2k, It's run it's course.


Actually, I believe he could sue the league if he were denied the right to continue his career. He could sue for lost wages from a normal career at normal raises and at a normal 3% inflation for a RB with above average ability. He could claim that the only reason he can't play anymore is because of the leagues fear of concussion lawsuits. And he would be right.

Calvin got a concussion in the Viking game. Is everyone prepared to part with him if he gets another concussion? You better be careful with how you deal with it for one player, because, it will set precedent for all players.

Simple fix. If Best wants to continue playing, he needs to sign, (as well as his parents, Wife [she also waves any claims on their children's behalf], and siblings),

a concussion waver form with witnesses and have it notarized. Then, he would not be able to come back later and sue the NFL.


October 11th, 2012, 6:53 pm
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
BillySims wrote:
Ferris wrote:
With the concussion history I don't think Best should be ALLOWED to play football anymore. Get rid of him before he becomes part of the lawsuit.

He could come back, and play some good games, but he risking the rest of his life to do so, and he is a huge red light for the rest of the NFL. I want him back as much as anyone, but not to see the man go through it all over again.

I agree with M2k, It's run it's course.


Actually, I believe he could sue the league if he were denied the right to continue his career. He could sue for lost wages from a normal career at normal raises and at a normal 3% inflation for a RB with above average ability. He could claim that the only reason he can't play anymore is because of the leagues fear of concussion lawsuits. And he would be right.

Calvin got a concussion in the Viking game. Is everyone prepared to part with him if he gets another concussion? You better be careful with how you deal with it for one player, because, it will set precedent for all players.

Simple fix. If Best wants to continue playing, he needs to sign, (as well as his parents, Wife [she also waves any claims on their children's behalf], and siblings),

a concussion waver form with witnesses and have it notarized. Then, he would not be able to come back later and sue the NFL.


I don't think that would be the case Billy. Just because someone has medical clearance to continue doesn't mean that the teams MUST allow him to play. There are plenty of guys out there who haven't been signed by any teams that haven't had the medical issues Best has had. They have no legal recourse, nor does Best if the Lions were to release him and the other teams chose not to take on the risk.

Besides which, even if he signs the waiver, he could later claim he wasn't in his right mind because of the concussions. It may be far fetched, but that's something that a lawyer would pursue when all other options are gone.

Ben Graham was released from the team after he got injured. He was given an injury settlement and released. It's common place. The Lions could do exactly the same thing with Best. And if they did, and he accepted it, he'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on.

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October 12th, 2012, 9:03 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Ferris wrote:
With the concussion history I don't think Best should be ALLOWED to play football anymore. Get rid of him before he becomes part of the lawsuit.

He could come back, and play some good games, but he risking the rest of his life to do so, and he is a huge red light for the rest of the NFL. I want him back as much as anyone, but not to see the man go through it all over again.

I agree with M2k, It's run it's course.


Actually, I believe he could sue the league if he were denied the right to continue his career. He could sue for lost wages from a normal career at normal raises and at a normal 3% inflation for a RB with above average ability. He could claim that the only reason he can't play anymore is because of the leagues fear of concussion lawsuits. And he would be right.

Calvin got a concussion in the Viking game. Is everyone prepared to part with him if he gets another concussion? You better be careful with how you deal with it for one player, because, it will set precedent for all players.

Simple fix. If Best wants to continue playing, he needs to sign, (as well as his parents, Wife [she also waves any claims on their children's behalf], and siblings),

a concussion waver form with witnesses and have it notarized. Then, he would not be able to come back later and sue the NFL.


I don't think that would be the case Billy. Just because someone has medical clearance to continue doesn't mean that the teams MUST allow him to play. There are plenty of guys out there who haven't been signed by any teams that haven't had the medical issues Best has had. They have no legal recourse, nor does Best if the Lions were to release him and the other teams chose not to take on the risk.

Besides which, even if he signs the waiver, he could later claim he wasn't in his right mind because of the concussions. It may be far fetched, but that's something that a lawyer would pursue when all other options are gone.

Ben Graham was released from the team after he got injured. He was given an injury settlement and released. It's common place. The Lions could do exactly the same thing with Best. And if they did, and he accepted it, he'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on.


Yeah, the injury settlement would be the waiver. He couldn't join the concussion lawsuit because he's the response to it.

As for Calvin... he did not have a concussion. Any hit to the head or perceived to hit the head is flagged by an outside person that requires the team to check the player. If Calvin had gotten a concussion, he never would have been permitted to return to the field. Teams are going to be punished if a player gets back on after showing any symptoms.


October 12th, 2012, 10:08 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
njroar wrote:
As for Calvin... he did not have a concussion. Any hit to the head or perceived to hit the head is flagged by an outside person that requires the team to check the player. If Calvin had gotten a concussion, he never would have been permitted to return to the field. Teams are going to be punished if a player gets back on after showing any symptoms.
Are you sure about that? Sounds like Calvin is saying he had a concussion and played despite it, though Schwartz does seem to disagree:
MLive wrote:
Detroit Lions WR Calvin Johnson says he played against Vikings despite concussion
By Anwar S. Richardson | arichar2@mlive.com
on October 11, 2012 at 3:00 PM,
updated October 11, 2012 at 3:08 PM

ALLEN PARK -- Calvin Johnson passed a concussion test to resume playing for the Detroit Lions against the Minnesota Vikings nearly two weeks ago.

How he passed it is somewhat unclear.

Johnson talked about his brutal helmet-to-helmet collision with Minnesota Vikings linebacker Chad Greenway on September 30 during an interview on 97.1 The Ticket on Thursday. The receiver admitted he had sustained a concussion, but played through it. Greenway was fined $21,000 by the NFL for his hit.

When asked to confirm if he suffered a concussion after today's practice by local media members, Johnson did not shy away from his radio comments.

"Yeah, you could tell. It was obvious," Johnson said. "I said exactly what I meant, but I guess you could take it out of context. What I meant when I said you have to keep going is you can't be afraid to go over the middle. Not that you get concussed you have to keep playing.

"We know you can't do that if you don't pass the test, but you can't be afraid to keep on going over the middle and doing what we've been doing."

While Johnson admits to having a concussion, Lions coach Jim Schwartz passionately denied the receiver sustained a brain injury against Minnesota.

"Our evaluation was he was not concussed," Schwartz said. "He was thoroughly checked. We were very strong in our evaluation. He was cleared to go back in the game, and he was on a protocol after that, and he was cleared then.

"We're very strong in our evaluation, and as an organization, we have some credibility when it comes to concussions. So just leave it there."

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/20 ... cart_river
I'd have to go with the player on this one. IMO he would know more than anyone if he was concussed or not.

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October 12th, 2012, 10:20 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
and more:
ESPN wrote:
Calvin Johnson: I played concussed
Updated: October 11, 2012, 9:17 PM ET
ESPN.com news services

Detroit Lions wide receiver Calvin Johnson said Thursday he returned to a game against the Minnesota Vikings earlier this season after suffering a concussion.

Johnson told the Detroit Free Press he suffered a concussion on a helmet-to-helmet hit from Chad Greenway. Johnson was slow to get up and was tested for a concussion on the sideline.

"Yeah, yeah, he knocked me good," Johnson told the Free Press. "You could tell. It was obvious."

Lions coach Jim Schwartz said Johnson cleared the concussion test, and therefore was allowed to return to the game, according to the report.

"Our evaluation was that he was not concussed," Schwartz told the Free Press. "He was thoroughly checked. We're very strong in our evaluation. He was cleared to go back in the game, and he was on a protocol after that, and he was cleared then. We're very strong in our evaluation, and we are, as an organization, I think we have some credibility when it comes to concussions."

According to NFL protocol, a player suspected of having a concussion must be tested by medical personnel. If a concussion is diagnosed, the player is then removed from the sideline and can't return to the game.

Johnson, in a Thursday interview with WXYT-FM (97.1) in Detroit, said playing with concussions is simply a part of the game.

"It's a part of football," Johnson said. "You get concussed, you gotta keep on playing."

Johnson later clarified those comments, stating he actually meant that, as a receiver, he can't be scared to go over the middle.

"Not that if you're concussed that you've got to keep playing," Johnson said following practice. "We know we can't do that if we don't pass the test. I was just saying that you can't be afraid to keep on going over the middle and doing what we've been doing."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/84927 ... ing-report
Just a thought, but maybe the 'test' isn't as reliable as originally thought (or led to believe)

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October 12th, 2012, 10:51 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
If the test wasn't reliable, why has Best been out for as long as he has been then? You ever stub your toe and immediately thought "omg I broke my toe." We're not doctors, so we often believe the worst. He wanted to play, but he didn't make the decision. He showed no symptoms, but he could have been feeling similar effects. I don't deny he believes it, but the doctors are independent now, not team oriented that check.

If the test were easy to bypass, it would eliminate the lawsuit in a heartbeat since the players would then be held liable if they were found to be bypassing it. Regardless, on those types of hits, the brain gets shaken. What we understand concussions to be comes into question in cases like this. If the medical definition of one is being used by a league, but players are still feeling some effects, than the very nature of what a concussion is needs to be looked at or we're just going to have solutions that don't really solve the core issue they're trying to fix.


October 12th, 2012, 1:05 pm
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
njroar wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Ferris wrote:
With the concussion history I don't think Best should be ALLOWED to play football anymore. Get rid of him before he becomes part of the lawsuit.

He could come back, and play some good games, but he risking the rest of his life to do so, and he is a huge red light for the rest of the NFL. I want him back as much as anyone, but not to see the man go through it all over again.

I agree with M2k, It's run it's course.


Actually, I believe he could sue the league if he were denied the right to continue his career. He could sue for lost wages from a normal career at normal raises and at a normal 3% inflation for a RB with above average ability. He could claim that the only reason he can't play anymore is because of the leagues fear of concussion lawsuits. And he would be right.

Calvin got a concussion in the Viking game. Is everyone prepared to part with him if he gets another concussion? You better be careful with how you deal with it for one player, because, it will set precedent for all players.

Simple fix. If Best wants to continue playing, he needs to sign, (as well as his parents, Wife [she also waves any claims on their children's behalf], and siblings),

a concussion waver form with witnesses and have it notarized. Then, he would not be able to come back later and sue the NFL.


I don't think that would be the case Billy. Just because someone has medical clearance to continue doesn't mean that the teams MUST allow him to play. There are plenty of guys out there who haven't been signed by any teams that haven't had the medical issues Best has had. They have no legal recourse, nor does Best if the Lions were to release him and the other teams chose not to take on the risk.

Besides which, even if he signs the waiver, he could later claim he wasn't in his right mind because of the concussions. It may be far fetched, but that's something that a lawyer would pursue when all other options are gone.

Ben Graham was released from the team after he got injured. He was given an injury settlement and released. It's common place. The Lions could do exactly the same thing with Best. And if they did, and he accepted it, he'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on.


Yeah, the injury settlement would be the waiver. He couldn't join the concussion lawsuit because he's the response to it.

As for Calvin... he did not have a concussion. Any hit to the head or perceived to hit the head is flagged by an outside person that requires the team to check the player. If Calvin had gotten a concussion, he never would have been permitted to return to the field. Teams are going to be punished if a player gets back on after showing any symptoms.


UMMMM. Then you are calling Calvin a liar. Calvin, himself, admitted that he got a concussion on that hit.

Quote:
Calvin Johnson: I played concussed
Updated: October 11, 2012, 9:17 PM ET
ESPN.com news services


That article is in this very thread. You may want to read it.


October 12th, 2012, 7:06 pm
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
BillySims wrote:
njroar wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Ferris wrote:
With the concussion history I don't think Best should be ALLOWED to play football anymore. Get rid of him before he becomes part of the lawsuit.

He could come back, and play some good games, but he risking the rest of his life to do so, and he is a huge red light for the rest of the NFL. I want him back as much as anyone, but not to see the man go through it all over again.

I agree with M2k, It's run it's course.


Actually, I believe he could sue the league if he were denied the right to continue his career. He could sue for lost wages from a normal career at normal raises and at a normal 3% inflation for a RB with above average ability. He could claim that the only reason he can't play anymore is because of the leagues fear of concussion lawsuits. And he would be right.

Calvin got a concussion in the Viking game. Is everyone prepared to part with him if he gets another concussion? You better be careful with how you deal with it for one player, because, it will set precedent for all players.

Simple fix. If Best wants to continue playing, he needs to sign, (as well as his parents, Wife [she also waves any claims on their children's behalf], and siblings),

a concussion waver form with witnesses and have it notarized. Then, he would not be able to come back later and sue the NFL.


I don't think that would be the case Billy. Just because someone has medical clearance to continue doesn't mean that the teams MUST allow him to play. There are plenty of guys out there who haven't been signed by any teams that haven't had the medical issues Best has had. They have no legal recourse, nor does Best if the Lions were to release him and the other teams chose not to take on the risk.

Besides which, even if he signs the waiver, he could later claim he wasn't in his right mind because of the concussions. It may be far fetched, but that's something that a lawyer would pursue when all other options are gone.

Ben Graham was released from the team after he got injured. He was given an injury settlement and released. It's common place. The Lions could do exactly the same thing with Best. And if they did, and he accepted it, he'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on.


Yeah, the injury settlement would be the waiver. He couldn't join the concussion lawsuit because he's the response to it.

As for Calvin... he did not have a concussion. Any hit to the head or perceived to hit the head is flagged by an outside person that requires the team to check the player. If Calvin had gotten a concussion, he never would have been permitted to return to the field. Teams are going to be punished if a player gets back on after showing any symptoms.


UMMMM. Then you are calling Calvin a liar. Calvin, himself, admitted that he got a concussion on that hit.

Quote:
Calvin Johnson: I played concussed
Updated: October 11, 2012, 9:17 PM ET
ESPN.com news services


That article is in this very thread. You may want to read it.


Calvin doesn't know if he got a concussion or not. You can't self diagnose a concussion.

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October 13th, 2012, 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
njroar wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
BillySims wrote:
Ferris wrote:
With the concussion history I don't think Best should be ALLOWED to play football anymore. Get rid of him before he becomes part of the lawsuit.

He could come back, and play some good games, but he risking the rest of his life to do so, and he is a huge red light for the rest of the NFL. I want him back as much as anyone, but not to see the man go through it all over again.

I agree with M2k, It's run it's course.


Actually, I believe he could sue the league if he were denied the right to continue his career. He could sue for lost wages from a normal career at normal raises and at a normal 3% inflation for a RB with above average ability. He could claim that the only reason he can't play anymore is because of the leagues fear of concussion lawsuits. And he would be right.

Calvin got a concussion in the Viking game. Is everyone prepared to part with him if he gets another concussion? You better be careful with how you deal with it for one player, because, it will set precedent for all players.

Simple fix. If Best wants to continue playing, he needs to sign, (as well as his parents, Wife [she also waves any claims on their children's behalf], and siblings),

a concussion waver form with witnesses and have it notarized. Then, he would not be able to come back later and sue the NFL.


I don't think that would be the case Billy. Just because someone has medical clearance to continue doesn't mean that the teams MUST allow him to play. There are plenty of guys out there who haven't been signed by any teams that haven't had the medical issues Best has had. They have no legal recourse, nor does Best if the Lions were to release him and the other teams chose not to take on the risk.

Besides which, even if he signs the waiver, he could later claim he wasn't in his right mind because of the concussions. It may be far fetched, but that's something that a lawyer would pursue when all other options are gone.

Ben Graham was released from the team after he got injured. He was given an injury settlement and released. It's common place. The Lions could do exactly the same thing with Best. And if they did, and he accepted it, he'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on.


Yeah, the injury settlement would be the waiver. He couldn't join the concussion lawsuit because he's the response to it.

As for Calvin... he did not have a concussion. Any hit to the head or perceived to hit the head is flagged by an outside person that requires the team to check the player. If Calvin had gotten a concussion, he never would have been permitted to return to the field. Teams are going to be punished if a player gets back on after showing any symptoms.


UMMMM. Then you are calling Calvin a liar. Calvin, himself, admitted that he got a concussion on that hit.

Quote:
Calvin Johnson: I played concussed
Updated: October 11, 2012, 9:17 PM ET
ESPN.com news services


That article is in this very thread. You may want to read it.


Calvin doesn't know if he got a concussion or not. You can't self diagnose a concussion.


That's a load of crap. I have had a concussion. While you may not realize that you are concussed at the time, you most certainly know that something is not right. And later, once the cobwebs have cleared, you know that you were concussed. You don't need a doctor to tell you because you know it already.


October 13th, 2012, 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
BillySims wrote:
m2karateman wrote:

Calvin doesn't know if he got a concussion or not. You can't self diagnose a concussion.


That's a load of crap. I have had a concussion. While you may not realize that you are concussed at the time, you most certainly know that something is not right. And later, once the cobwebs have cleared, you know that you were concussed. You don't need a doctor to tell you because you know it already.


Billy, I've had a couple concussions in my day. I've also had times when I've gotten hit hard a got my bell rung. They don't feel too different from one another, in the short term. However, to a medical professional they are quite different. Calvin was cleared to return to play by the medical professionals. I'll take their word over his, thank you very much. He might be able to say he THINKS he had a concussion, but he obviously is wrong. Each person handles that type of injury differently. Some people suffer concussions much easier than others. There are plenty of folks who feel they've suffered a concussion, but haven't. And then there are those who think they are fine, when in fact they have suffered a concussion and didn't realize it.

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October 13th, 2012, 2:42 pm
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
http://www.detroitlions.com/news/articl ... 2b2478f357

Quote:
The Lions learned Monday that running back Jahvid Best has not been given clearance to return to the practice field from independent neurologists, which leaves both his season and career in jeopardy.

"After today's consultation with medical experts, including representatives from our medical and training staffs, it has been determined that Jahvid will not be permitted to return to play at this time," Lions General Manager Martin Mayhew said in a statement.

"Throughout this entire process we always have placed the highest priority on what is best for Jahvid from a health and safety standpoint," Mayhew continued.

"While today's decision is disappointing from a football perspective, we fully and entirely respect and support this recommendation."

Best said last week he wouldn't consider retirement if he wasn't cleared for a return, though.

"No," he said. "Then we'll have to sit back down and have more discussions and see where we can go from there."

Mayhew affirmed those remarks in his statement today.

"Jahvid will continue to work with our medical and training staffs with the hope that he ultimately will be cleared to return to the playing field," he said.

Though it doesn't appear that will be this season after his latest setback, the window hasn't closed yet, according to Lions head coach Jim Schwartz.

"There's still time," he said in an interview on the Lions Review Show on 97.1 The Ticket. "We don't have to activate him from PUP yet, there's still a couple more weeks and then there's a three-week practice window, so that time hasn't run out."

The sands in the hourglass are getting pretty low, though.

Tuesday will be one year to the day since Best suffered his most recent concussion in a Week 6 loss to the 49ers. It's uncertain how much can really change in a matter of weeks when it hasn't changed over the course of the last year.

Best previously went through the protocol to try and return to the field three months prior to last week's tests, with the same result: no clearance.

"It's nothing that we can control. We move on," Schwartz said. "You can't worry about what you don't have. You have to worry about what you do have and make the best of it. We have to prepare to play Chicago without him."

Best said in the offseason the concussion he suffered against the 49ers last season was the third of his career.

He suffered one against the Browns in the preseason last year and a devastating one that ended his college career at Cal. The one he suffered in college against Oregon State was the only one in which he was knocked unconscious, he said.

In the locker room last week, Best told reporters he was in the top physical condition of his life and hadn't had a symptom in "months."

Only Best, the Lions front office and his medical team know exactly what's preventing him from returning to the field.

Best cited "personal reasons" for not wanting to get into any specifics about his case when talking to reporters, saying each case was unique, but he seemed optimistic he'd get clearance to return.

This is a big blow to a Lions offense that has yet to have an "explosive" run play (20 yards or more) this season. Best is a big-play threat and probably the second-best mismatch they can utilize outside of receiver Calvin Johnson.

In 22 career games, Best has rushed for 945 yards with six touchdowns. He also has 774 receiving yards and three more touchdowns.


EDIT: To be discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16137

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October 16th, 2012, 11:53 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
The biggest loss from not having Best wasn't in the run game but in the passing game. When they would utilize him on screen plays and wheel routes it drew S coverage down opening up throws over the top and drawing LBs opening up throws over the middle for Young and the TEs.


October 17th, 2012, 8:13 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
Any chance you think they try and get another Jahvid Best-type player in the 2013 draft?

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October 17th, 2012, 10:01 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
kdsberman wrote:
Any chance you think they try and get another Jahvid Best-type player in the 2013 draft?


I think they do. However, I hope it's a later round pick and not a top pick as I feel the secondary and OL should be addressed early.

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October 17th, 2012, 11:05 am
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Post Re: Trying to fix run game
LionsFan4Life wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Any chance you think they try and get another Jahvid Best-type player in the 2013 draft?


I think they do. However, I hope it's a later round pick and not a top pick as I feel the secondary and OL should be addressed early.


Exactly. Speed backs can be had in the fourth and fifth rounds. We don't need someone to carry the load, just someone who can scare the opposing team with his speed and receiving ability. A Darren Sproles type runner would be great.

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October 17th, 2012, 6:15 pm
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