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 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Here's a question that seems to be pretty deep:

What is human nature?

Can we escape the laws of nature?

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 16th, 2012, 8:48 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
m2karateman wrote:
UK Lion wrote:


UK....we all die, right? We all know it's coming, but yet most every person alive fears it. How would you choose to die?


Well if I have a choice,
I would like to be shot to death when I'm in my mid 90ies

By a 26 year old
























Jealous husband. :mrgreen:

Frok

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October 16th, 2012, 4:57 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Sorry UK, I didn't see the latter half of your question.

You asked how would I choose to die?

I would choose to die serving my fellow man in the way that my heart is most passionate. Serving. I think the best example is illustrated by our Fire Fighters, Police officers, and Servicemen and women who face death in the course of their duties, and don't fear it.

It doesn't matter what job, how dirty, or what injuries I take from it, because if I am helping someone by providing a need they can't meet, or fix something they can't fix, then my heart rejoices. If in the course of that work my life is called for, then so be it. I don't fear death itself, I fear the hurt for those left behind, namely my wife and daughter.

Having said that, I do all that I can now to demonstrate, communicate and illustrate my love for them by the things I do, and say, and the time spent with them.

So I don't fear death at all, and would stare it straight in the face in the course of conflict, (been there and done that with drug dealers) but in regards to my family, I fear hurting them by losing me. If that makes sense.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 17th, 2012, 9:17 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
First and foremost I would really like to thank you guys for allowing me the opportunity to share my thoughts and faith iwth you; that is no small thing as far as I'm concerned. I know that it's lead to some disagreements and differences of opinion, but when iron sharpens iron, there is always sparks that develop. Having said all of that, a few of you have really caught my heart in some of the questions that you've asked. In my own journey I have been blessed to come in contact with other men who have helped me to see some of the things I've gone through in life, and not all of them were by my own choosing. This November I am preparing to attend a weekend retreat that I've been to once before, and in seeking out preparation materials for it, I was directed to this website.

So I would like to include it here, where you can see for yourself, articles, podcasts, and video conferences at your own leisure. I am hopeful that there are those here who will be willing to take an initial step and look at some of the information. For all of the things Christianity represents, there has been many errors along the way. I can't help but think of the line from "Kingdom of Heaven"

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is here and here and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not." ~ Hospitaler

"You've taught me a lot about religion, your Eminence. ~ Balien"

So please, consider taking a step and looking at some of the information provided, and to those I spoke of, I'll send this as a PM as well. Thanks!

Paul

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 21st, 2012, 3:10 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Duh, I forgot the link...

www.abbafather.com

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 21st, 2012, 3:17 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Human nature is a euphamism that means different things to different people. It really has no concrete meeting to discuss.

I hope I die like my dad's mother - fall asleep at the age of 93 watching TV with a beer in my hand, and just never wake up.


October 22nd, 2012, 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Eric,

I've learned a few things in my 42 years of life, and one of those being, "the tougher the nut, the greater force needed to make it crack." Now if you apply that to your situation in terms of belief, that means that something very drastic is going to be needed to get your attention. I'm not capable of delivering that, nor of knowing exactly where to apply the pressure. I have done all that I know to be nice, to reach out in care and concern, and to even tolerate your barbed comments when everything in me that's human wishes to unload a verbal (albeit typed) tyrade upon you. Trust, after 8 years in the Navy and much more, I know the words.... But that is counterproductive.

Having said that I did learn something that might help you in your issues with the Bible. First and foremost you assume that it speaks it's own truth so it is, "self-referencing" and therefore is not adequate to use as a source. But what if I could share a different perspective that might just stagger your mind a little.

The Bible, was not written by, nor for Western Christians! Now each of the authors of the Bible, and there are over 40 from 4 different continents and 400 years, were all of the middle Eastern, Jewish line of thinking.

There is a teacher in Grand Rapids who has attended Rabbincal School and I think is also a Pastor, as well as a regular teacher. He has put the Bible in a whole new perspective that is UNBELIEVABLY amazing.

The Jewish (Eastern) thinking is Concrete, the Western (Greek) thinking is analytical, so we look at Scripture two different ways.

Example: Looking at a Frog

Westerners will take a frog staple it down, disect it and tell you everything about it. What it ate, how it jumps, how the different systems work and so on.

Easterners will immerse themselves in the environment and document and view the frog in action. They can tell you how it lives, where it's lilly pad is, what it likes to eat, who it's chosen mate is and so on. It's concrete PHYSICAL evidence applied to Scripture.

See the difference? We Westerners have been taught the analytical and so when we read things like "the Spirit was hovering over the waters" we assume that it means this great mass of water. HOWEVER, in Eastern thinking and through appropriate translation, WATERS or the DEEP, represents CHAOS. So think to your Big Bang Sceintific theory, and think of the chaos that is space, post explosion. Then from that things are made. Do you begin to see the point?

There is tremendous translation benefits when we Westerners can begin to understand Scripture from the Eastern (Jewish) perspective, and when the two are combined, Analytical and Concrete, it is a thing of beauty.

Would you be willing to listen to this teacher? I have the cd's and will send them free of charge.

Let me know.

Paul

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 22nd, 2012, 4:08 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
OK, have to admit I took a peak around the site - a little to ecommercy for me but that is what you have to expect these days I guess.

I picked an article about Father Instinct:

Gordon Dalbey wrote:
Nevertheless, as I drove home later, both fear and excitement swept over me. What in the world seized me when I saw my son go under that water? Where did it come from? All rational processes had short-circuited. Something beyond a higher, moral desire to help someone in need, even deeper than animal self-preservation, had activated.
Almost like...instinct!

Even as water from my slacks soaked into the car seat, I straightened up, confident and alert: I have a father instinct!


Surpised me what a "revelation" this was for a father? You see you son drowning and you immediately jump in to save him. If he studied science, he would know from years of evolution species develop "instincts" critical for their survival. Parents of most species (well those that don't create hundreds of eggs/babies at a time) have instincts to protect their offspring.

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October 22nd, 2012, 4:41 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is "ecomercy"?

and Eric, could you explain how and what you meant by euphemism? I got a little confused on this. Thanks fellas!


Pablo: This is just one particular author, and I haven't read him myself, I'm waiting on my order to arrive, but I'm interested in his perspective. At the same time, did you ever read "Epic: the story God is telling"? It really is an interesting and you might enjoy it, if you can truly give it an objective look.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 22nd, 2012, 5:50 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is "ecomercy"?

and Eric, could you explain how and what you meant by euphemism? I got a little confused on this. Thanks fellas!


Pablo: This is just one particular author, and I haven't read him myself, I'm waiting on my order to arrive, but I'm interested in his perspective. At the same time, did you ever read "Epic: the story God is telling"? It really is an interesting and you might enjoy it, if you can truly give it an objective look.


You are not ignorant my friend, I pretty much made up that word. Ecommerce sites sell, sell, sell. You go on that site and a big ad pops up to buy something. There is stuff to buy everywhere as well.

I haven't looked at Epic yet, but I did just want to let you know I took a quick look through the site... Thanks for sharing!

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October 22nd, 2012, 5:56 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Having read much of John eldriges material and accompanying that with my own personal historythere is something to be said about his topics. I really think you would appreciate wild at heart or way of the wild heart the sequel. It explains how we as men are wired and why we think and act as we do. I fully recommend him to anyone and will provide a link to the retreat I am going to so that others can get an idea of what you would find in epic or wild at heart.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 22nd, 2012, 11:25 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Here is the link but when you follow it go to the top screen and grab the boot camp video otherwise you will watch 48minutes of session one. Https://vimeo.com/19792305

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 22nd, 2012, 11:38 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Eric and Pablo: You two have been the most noted in saying that you need "concrete" evidence of God in order to believe right? So does the perspective from Ray Vander laan (RVL) do anything, or catch your attention?

The frog example was his, and used to teach how our perspectives vary between cultures, but when he started talking about concrete evidence I immediately thought of you two.

However, the difficulty in this is that if you've built yourself this nice, safe, scientific world full of all of the reason that you choose not to believe, when you come into contact with something that has the potential to challenge it, the possibility exists that you'll distance yourself from it, or disregard it, in order to shore up the world of belief that you've created for yourself.

I'm not being argumentative here, I'm asking if the potential of a different perspective would be interesting enough to you to consider looking at the Bible in a different light, therefore opening up the possibilities of believing in God, and coming to know him personally. What are your thoughts please?

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 24th, 2012, 8:06 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
What is it about God that is so concerning or scary to non-believers?

This comes from a line of thought from another thread and I'm curious as to why people who formerly had SOME understanding of God, and have since walked away, are finding it hard to believe in God?

I don't ask this to ridicule, and I didn't ask about Christianity, because there is much that has been done wrong in Christianity. In fact, once example comes from the middle East now.

As a foreigner you can travel to out of the way places in the Middle East (Muslim Countries) and be received very well. You'll be greeted, cared for, and fed even if it was the last of their food, because it's a sin not to. But the same reception can not be said of most Christianity, ESPECIALLY within the United States. This is a small example but powerful in the stating, and much to the shame of organized Christian churches.

So let's return to the focal point, what is so concerning about God?

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


October 30th, 2012, 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
What is it about God that is so concerning or scary to non-believers?


Two words - Santa Claus

What is scary about Santa Claus? Nothing. The exact same thing as God, we don't fear something that doesn't exit. (In fact, it is believers that find God so scary so you have this a little backwards).

What is concerning about Santa Claus? Nothing. However there are a lot of concerns about those who do.

With your current beliefs in Santa, imagine a country in which...

- 80-90% of the country believed in him
- your money said "In Santa We Trust"
- your national anthem said "On Nation Under Santa"
- to prove you were telling the truth in court, you had to put your hand on a Christmas list and say "So Help Me Santa"
- Since you didn't believe in Santa, you were part of the least trusted group in the country
- historically, more people were killed in the name of Santa than any other cause
- those who believed were convinced that when the elves come they are only going to take the believers and the world would be destroyed
- believers splintered off into many different factions, all assuming theirs was the only true path - ever other believer had it wrong
- believers

So let me ask you this, why as a former believer of Santa did you walk away? Why are you finding it so hard to believe in Santa now?

Answer this question and you have your answer...

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October 30th, 2012, 12:39 pm
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