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 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo,

That's not entirely true, because all you did was take the very questions I asked, substituted your own example (Santa) and then told me that in answering your questions, I would find the answer to my own.

So if God is not scary, why is it such a tremendously sensitive subject with Atheist? Why is it attacked so regularly by Atheists? If God does not exist, then what are they attacking?

I've heard of Bible burnings, and Crucifixes in jars of urine is considered art, and much more. I find it interesting that a segment of society that does not believe in the existance of God, is so adamantly fighting anything that might represent a God that does not exist. Manger scenes, crosses, 10 Commandments, and so on.....

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October 30th, 2012, 2:42 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Pablo,

That's not entirely true, because all you did was take the very questions I asked, substituted your own example (Santa) and then told me that in answering your questions, I would find the answer to my own.

So if God is not scary, why is it such a tremendously sensitive subject with Atheist? Why is it attacked so regularly by Atheists? If God does not exist, then what are they attacking?

I've heard of Bible burnings, and Crucifixes in jars of urine is considered art, and much more. I find it interesting that a segment of society that does not believe in the existance of God, is so adamantly fighting anything that might represent a God that does not exist. Manger scenes, crosses, 10 Commandments, and so on.....


I substituted Santa because to a non-believer like me - he is as real as God. Feel free to substitute anything you used to believe in and no longer do. The tooth fairy works as well for me. I don't mean this to be insulting, because I realize you see God on a very different level than you ever did Santa, but IMO I've come to similar conclusions. You also have to overcome a little fear. If I no longer believe in Santa, do I no longer get gifts? If I no longer believe in God, do I spend an eternity in hell?

Why is God a sensitive issue? What you seem to fail to understand is that how the Atheist acts are almost always "reactions" to something rather than a proactive act against Christianity. Let me try a more extreme example.

What if some form of Satan worship ruled our land? Would you be OK with players praying to him before every sporting event? Would you be OK spending currency with our trust pledged to him on it? Would yo be OK putting your hand on some sort of Satanic manuscript in court and pledging that you would tell the truth in his honor? What if our leader, the president, had to make a similar pledge before taking office? What if our nation was one, under Satan? What if we had holidays that celebrated his birth, with Satanic symbolism all the rage? What if every other car in front of you had a pentagram on it instead of a fish?

Would you just sit back and never react to the Satanic worship that surrounded you endlessly?

You talk about Bible burnings, but what about churches that burn Qurans? What in your faith is so threatened by the Muslim belief that Christians attack it?

I almost laughed when I read your post since the book my wife, a Christian, is currently reading is entitled "Fear of the Lord". It isn't non-believers who think God is scary, it is believers who do... Honestly, as someone who has read the Bible I understand - the God in that book is often downright scary!

I've broken free of the fear, part of the process of becomming a non-believer. It was a liberating experience for me and I'm never going back brother unless I'm shown evidence to the contrary.

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October 30th, 2012, 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
If you want my absolute honest view, it is that my responsibility to God is to do as he did, show love. That means turn the other cheek when I'm struck or attacked, and so on. Do NOT misinterpret and think door mat here! But if someone says something that is hurtful or attacking, instead of insighting the riot by adding my opinion to the fight, I take the brunt of the attack, and continue to love them despite the attacks. It's tough to do, and I've had to do it many times, some even here!

I find it interesting that crosses were well established in places like the Mojave Desert that were erected as memorials for veterans by veterans, and the Cross stood there for almost 80 years or more. Atheist were "offended" by a cross in the desert and sued to have it removed. When that failed they removed it themselves, and when someone replaced it, the government stepped in stopped it all, (if I remember this right. The ACLJ did the case earlier this year.) What about the case where a Cross was discovered in the middle of the WTC's on the 9/11 date or shortly thereafter. It gave peace and solace to many whether they believed or not, but when the Cross was taken and was going to be put in the 9/11 museum some atheists were made "physically ill" by the sight of the Cross. See what I'm saying?

And just so you know we already live in a satanic society, sex, drugs, rock and roll baby, morality is archaeic and has pretty much left prime time television. And although Christians don't like it, they are still subject to it, and can either throw awway their tv's or not subscribe. Personal choice there.

There's no fear on my part in my relationship with God, because it's personal, viable, and alive and so I am "rightly related" to him and therefore secure in that relationship. For those who don't believe, I'm seen as a radical, but that's fine.

Oops, got to go....

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October 30th, 2012, 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
If you want my absolute honest view, it is that my responsibility to God is to do as he did, show love.


Brother, you continue to be so selective when it comes to your faith it astonishes me. Your God, according to the Bible, showed a lot more than love - try frustration, anger, revenge, etc... How can you forget all these?

Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT wrote:
"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings."


Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT wrote:
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".


1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT wrote:
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.


Deuteronomy 7:16-24 NLT wrote:
You must destroy all the nations the LORD your God hands over to you. Show them no mercy and do not worship their gods. If you do, they will trap you. Perhaps you will think to yourselves, 'How can we ever conquer these nations that are so much more powerful than we are?' But don't be afraid of them! Just remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all the land of Egypt. Remember the great terrors the LORD your God sent against them. You saw it all with your own eyes! And remember the miraculous signs and wonders, and the amazing power he used when he brought you out of Egypt. The LORD your God will use this same power against the people you fear. And then the LORD your God will send hornets to drive out the few survivors still hiding from you! "No, do not be afraid of those nations, for the LORD your God is among you, and he is a great and awesome God. The LORD your God will drive those nations out ahead of you little by little. You will not clear them away all at once, for if you did, the wild animals would multiply too quickly for you. But the LORD your God will hand them over to you. He will throw them into complete confusion until they are destroyed. He will put their kings in your power, and you will erase their names from the face of the earth. No one will be able to stand against you, and you will destroy them all.


Love, pretty tough to find in these and I can post hundreds if not thousands more. In addition, if you don't FEAR the man behind these than I can only assume you have no grasp of what is contained throughout the Bible.

And in honor of Sandy yesterday, lets not forget who created this mighty storm...

Nahum 1:2-8 NLT wrote:
The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night.


Love?

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October 30th, 2012, 6:09 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Fear is respect. You don't jump into a tiger pen because you fear what that animal can do to you...ie. respect his ability to tear you limb from limb. People ask me, 'do you want your kids to fear you?', and my response is a very quick "YES". I want my children to understand the results of their misbehaving, and where it will come from.

So fear of the Lord is respect. It is a respect of what can be done to you if you act outside the rules He sets forth.

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October 30th, 2012, 6:12 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
m2karateman wrote:
Fear is respect. You don't jump into a tiger pen because you fear what that animal can do to you...ie. respect his ability to tear you limb from limb. People ask me, 'do you want your kids to fear you?', and my response is a very quick "YES". I want my children to understand the results of their misbehaving, and where it will come from.

So fear of the Lord is respect. It is a respect of what can be done to you if you act outside the rules He sets forth.


I agree M2K and don't see how you can believe and not also fear God at the same time. In addition, you can both love and fear someone...

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October 30th, 2012, 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo:

Sorry I didn't see that you'd responded till just a few minutes ago, so I'm just getting to answer your question now.

The Bible is a tale of two halves. 1: the Old Testament, is commonly known as the time of the Law, it applies to the Jews predominantly, but carries with it many lessons that can be taught and learned by the non-Jew (sorry the word escapes me)

What you've quoted are God's responses, and let me remind you, that you are reading from the ENGLISH/WESTERN translation. In other words, much of what was translated back in the day was done from the Greek or Western perspective which is more "analytical." Ray Vander Laan has taught quite extensively on this, and ads a very interesting perspective to how Christians can better understand the Jewish word, written by Jewish authors, for a Jewish audience, translated to non-Jews via the Greek thought process and translations. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

2: The New Testament was the story of Jesus, his arrival, life, ministry, and death for the redemption of all man kind, and then starts what is predominantly called the "Church Age." There is a timeline out there that illustrates this fairly well and it shows the age break downs through the Book of Daniel, and his prophecy of weeks I believe it was. There is a period of time that is put together that denotes the Jewish Old Testament up to the birth of Jesus Christ. Then this starts the church age which I've mentioned, that is ROUGHLY 2000 years. The difficulty in that is what year is the starting point, and that has been argued and discussed by people much smarter than I. THen there is the remaining "week of Daniel" which is the time of judgment, and it's at this time that the anti-Christ comes into view, deals are made with Israel, and so on.

So to answer your question, I focus my FAITH on the teaching of Jesus. This is where the Love comes in. I am a child of God, by the redeeming blood of Christ. He paid our penalty for all man kind, and because I've accepted the offer, I'm welcomed into the family. When God the father sees me, He sees me through the sacrifice of his son. So it's like I'm splattered with red stains, but the blood of Jesus is the filter by which God looks upon humanity, the reds cancel each other out, and I'm seen as clean becaue of Jesus. Rudimentary, but do you understand the picture?

So I try to live my life like Jesus did, serving, loving, teaching, helping, and so on. KEEP IN MIND I AM A WORK IN PROCESS. Just because I've accepted the call upon my life does not mean that I'm instantly perfect, just forgiven. So I will still make mistakes, and says things that piss people off. I will still be rough around the edges in some ways, and have struggles with things that upset me, but I still do my best to follow the example of Jesus in doing what he did.



Oh and just so you know, Old Testament, the time of the Law was not a time of grace. There was the law given to God's chosen people, and breaking that law was punishable by death. Many of the nations you cited, were pagan nations that were off shoots of the Jewish heritage in some ways shapes or forms. Many of them like the Edomites, were the offspring of Esau, brother of Jacob. They were evil in their practices, and a hindrance to God's people. So if God decided he was tired of such a nation, he disposed of them as He chose.

The time of Grace came under the church age, that is why man kind has been allowed to run amuck. This is why sin is so rampant throughout the world in many ways and forms, and God has not "done anything." He is bound by His own word and will not do anything until the time of Judgment, and that's when the gloves will come off.

This is why I continue to try and reach out to many of you in hopes that you will at least take the step in faith. It just takes ONE step in belief and faith, and God will meet you the rest of the way. Please don't put me or any other Christian on a pedastal, we're all men, and subject to failing, but I can promise you that I try with everything I have in me, to do as I see in Jesus.

Again, test the fruits of the tree........... If I preached Christianity, but was sharing the latest dirty jokes, and pushing Sly's pictures in the "girlie thread", or even coarse speech, you would have grounds to call me a hypocrit. But have you not seen a difference between "DEVILDOC" and "WarEr4Christ?"

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November 1st, 2012, 11:23 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
So you are going to pick and choose what parts of God to emmulate? Interesting and convenient!

You are also saying that God "inspired" all those people to write the Bible (you always like to quote how many, on how many continents, and over how many years - BUT - he has no influence over the subsequent translations? Interesting and convenient yet again!

You also claim it takes just one step in belief and faith - yet as many of us have pointed out we once did believe. God obviously never meet us the rest of the way. Interesting and convenient!

You also claimed that it is those of us who "don't know God" that Fear him, yet as believers like M2K point out they are the one's who Fear him even if out of respect. I see no retort - interesting and convenient!

It seems like everything relating to belief has to be selective only when it fits and ignored when it doesn't to make things work - interesting and convenient isn't it... Just sayin!

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November 2nd, 2012, 12:11 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I just went through and posted this large response to each of your questions and the interenet tripped and erased the entire response so I'm NOT ignoring you, but I'm not going to restate the response either. It's obviously pointless. For someone who is so well versed in the word, you really don't know the WORD at all. With your extensive knowledge and ability to pull up Scripture which is impressive by the way, you are missing out on so much because you lack the relationship.

It's kind of like having all the book knowledge, but never doing anything physical with it.

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November 2nd, 2012, 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I just went through and posted this large response to each of your questions and the interenet tripped and erased the entire response so I'm NOT ignoring you, but I'm not going to restate the response either. It's obviously pointless. For someone who is so well versed in the word, you really don't know the WORD at all. With your extensive knowledge and ability to pull up Scripture which is impressive by the way, you are missing out on so much because you lack the relationship.

It's kind of like having all the book knowledge, but never doing anything physical with it.


Well we know who to blame for your post being lost don't we! :lol:

I actually like your argument and because of that I'm going to flip it back on you. At one point, when I was a believer, I was pretty well versed. Call it booksmart. As I questioned things, I read scripture much closer. I was becoming more booksmart.

Problem was, all my book smarts (and experience to that point) came from one book. Imagine having a stack of encyclopedias - but you only ever read and study the "A" volume. You believe everything in "A", back lack the background of books "B" - "Z" to add context truly critical to understand the whole picture. In-other-words, I would have obtained limited booksmarts due to the only volume I studied.

It is the same with the Bible my friend. You obviously undestand the story of Jesus, it has changed your life and you are a better man for it. Unfortunately not having read the other volumes your sight is narrowly targeted on one piece of information. Other scripture exist that isn't presented in the canon. Now, to really understand Jesus you have to go beyond scripture and look at where he comes from. In order to grasp that, you really need to study all the previous belief systems that his story comes from. I've pointed out how many almost exact "Jesus-like" figures existed before him. When you truly study them the picture starts to become clear. Jesus isn't just a character from the Bible, he is a compilation of many characters from many other belief systems. When you start to look at volumes B-Z, volume A takes on a different meaning.

Now the "relationship" you speak about, no matter how real it seems to you, is based upon just one bit of information that you have built your belief system around. This relationship, however, does not make it real. Let's take Santa again. I had a relationship with him as a child, I believed him to be true. I wrote letters, he brought gifts. Oh, what a special relationship it was. In my heart, Santa was real and I loved him and he loved me (well, so long as I was on the "nice" list - kind of funny he has a "nice" and "naughty" list just like your God isn't it, only your list determines the afterlife).

This "relationship" you suggest has existed in every belief system known to man at this point. Does that "prove" them all to be true OR does this "prove" that a percieved relationship can seem very real, true or not. Obviously it proves the later unless your willing to admit all those other belief systems were/are also true.

What you are asking me (personally, I can't speak for others) is akin to you going back to believing in Santa. KNOWING what you now know that can't happen. KNOWING what I know now (and you can call it book knowledge if you want, but honestly I've also gone down a path and you are dismissing my path and the knowledge that has replaced beliefs because not everything I've learned has come from books), it can't happen.

What it is going to take you to believe in Santa again. Believers might point to all the signs much like you do. They might point out the website by NORAD which tracks his actual sleigh movements - seems like pretty solid evidence doesn't it. How about the half eaten cookies or glass of milk which disappears on XMAS eve. The evidence is there if you are looking for it. The same is true of your belief my friend given your starting point when examining evidence/proof.

Until you are willing to really put your faith to the test, start from scratch, and read every volume from A-Z you will be stuck believing the stories told in volume A.

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November 2nd, 2012, 4:29 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo:

I really appreciate the challenges you pose because it does cause me to seek the deeper levels of my own faith. I've said many times within this very thread that I can not explain, nor adequately describe the personal interaction that I have had with the Lord. I know it sounds crazy, I carry that burden willingly, but that does not take away from what I've seen and experienced with my own eyes.

Having said that, I am aware that there are other "books" of the Bible that have been left out, and some would even go so far as to add portions of the dead sea scrolls, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Here's my thing, I can not accurately speak to those questions, I'm not trained in it, nor will I be, so I speak from what I know, and that is my personal relationship with Jesus. It's what I know, it's what I experience, and what I've tried to tap into and share with others here.

You and several others have admitted to originating from the Catholic faith predominantly, but there have been some others. What I've tried to communicate is that many of the organized religions which has caused so much disdain and distaste amongst members here, is RITUAL driven. I just happened to see with my own eyes a documentary about some other world religions, one of which had these people spinning a prayer wheel. When asked why they did it, the common answer was I don't know, but it's what is required of our worship. There was no reverance, no real worship, it was just going through the motions. Let's consider the Jews and the wailing wall. You've admitted to having friends who are Jewish so what do they tell you about the Wailing Wall? They dress in their traditional garb, and wail their prayers sometimes in a rocking motion, or rhythm for what? Because this is how they believe they are talking to God? I'm not ridiculing here, I'm trying to point out that organized religions have RITUALS, that have removed the RELATIONSHIP from the religion.

As a born again Christian, I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. He offered a gift of eternal life through His sacrifice. I can not earn it, pay it back, or live a life of the best works possible to deserve it. I can only receive it. Because I have accepted this offer, I have become a "slave to righteousness" to quote the Apostle Paul. My life is not my own, so from that day to present has been a journey of me becoming less, and Him more, like John the Baptist stated. It's a radical life, filled iwth ridicule, and angst, and many hurts. But it is the life I've been called to. I, ME, MYSELF, made the choice to accept Jesus and to pursue him. The Cross is not the stopping point, it is actually the gate with which we enter into the journey.

Now I could look at the Krishna's, and Pagan's, and Buddhists, and so on, but in some way shape or form, these are works driven. If I do this, I will obtain inner peace, or become a better person in my next life, as compared to a slug if I'm foul in this one. Works driven. Jesus says, decide! "I've paid the price that no man could pay, I've bridged the gap." Humanly speaking we try to earn, or pay for our way, and there is no price that we can pay; the ticket has already been purchased we just need to take it.

I am not going to judge another religion and harangue it's believers because they don't believe as I do, but I will do my best to make a friend, be a friend, and lead a friend to Christ.

By your interpretation I should open my mind and taste all of the other fruits out there, but in truth, didn't Adam and Eve get in trouble for the same thing? Were the other fruits just not good enough so they had to have more? Why is it Eve had to go and change what God had said? Why is it that Adam let the serpent deceive his wife? Why did he not attack and kill the serpent that endangered their lives?

As I've said, I speak of what I know, and that is my own personal relationship with Jesus. I know that I could bombard you and many others with Scripture, and I could point fingers and be a nuisance Bible thumper, OR I could get involved in your lives, establish friendships and mutual respect, and as the Lord allows, interject faith into our discussions. The results are not my responsibility, but the effort of carrying you in prayer, and conversating as I'm allowed is.

I wish with all of my heart that I had all of the answers that you and many others request. I yearn to have God show himself to you in a way that you could see it and recognize Him, but I'm powerless to do that. That is unless, you were to see that to the best of my ability, I am being the hands and feet of Christ, so taht you see Him in me, through me, and in my words. I mean seriously, have you ever been loved by someone you haven't met? I'm not offering you things of the flesh, or Russian girlfriends or anything twisted like that. I have offered love that flows through my heart from the father. A brotherly love that cares for you, cares about what happens to you and yours, and I receive no benefits in return. Let's face it, we've never met in person, and probably never will, but why in the WORLD would you and several others receive the Love and Care of someone you never met, who requires nothing of you? I mean you could suddenly have a change of heart and decide your are going to ask Jesus into your heart and life this very moment, and I'd never know it. I can only do and say what is laid upon my heart, and you and several others have become people that I am carrying before the Lord in prayer, because He has impressed you upon my heart. We have never known each other before, and outside of the Lions, do we really have anything in common? Are we beer drinking buddies? Do we go on family vacations? No, no, and no! You and these others have been impressed upon my heart, and so I am doing what I know to do, and leaving and trusting the results up to him.

So again, as much as it frustrates you, I am only sharing MY relationship with Jesus, because that is the only basis from which I am sure of, and that I can share with you that is authentic. Be blessed brother..... That's about all I can say to this point.

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November 2nd, 2012, 9:03 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
By your interpretation I should open my mind and taste all of the other fruits out there, but in truth, didn't Adam and Eve get in trouble for the same thing? Were the other fruits just not good enough so they had to have more? Why is it Eve had to go and change what God had said? Why is it that Adam let the serpent deceive his wife? Why did he not attack and kill the serpent that endangered their lives?


First, I'm not asking you to taste other fruits - I asking you to take a much deeper dive into your own faith. To truly understand something, to have a complete picture, you have to understand where it originates from. As I've pointed out, the story of Jesus does not originate from the Bible, the story you believe is one of the latest versions of earlier versions which themselves were plagiarized from even ealier versions. The story you base your belief on is a "remake" much like a movie. A few details may have been changed (and the number is remarkably low), but the story is essentially the exact same. The clear lack of any originality is startling and should give even the most ardent believer at least some reason to pause and examine the truth behind it. Your God, by all measures, is an original and full of creativity if you give him credit for the entire universe.

For example lets turn to the Egyptians, take the story of Horus - born of a virgin, Isis. Only begotten son of the God Osiris. Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star. Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21). In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human. Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” An angel tells Jesus’ father to: “Arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30. Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded. Walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, restored sight to the blind. Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days.

Sound familiar? There is a reason for that... Would you like to see almost the same figure for the Greeks, or Indians, or pick your group - they all have a Christ like figure well before Christ ever "existed". Well, in reality you did pick a group - the Jews. You just happen to dismiss all others as not true fully believing yours is true. Problem is, you only ever considered ONE of these stories as true and it is perhaps the least original of all...

If you really want to know Jesus, you need to really understand where he comes from (hint, it isn't the Bible)...

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November 5th, 2012, 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Ah HA! I see that we are approaching this from the wrong direction, and maybe we need to step back and look at this from the other side of the coin.

To this point, we've been discussing Jesus, and there is A LOT of misunderstanding, and theory, and conjecture, and "stories" about him so let's look at another character from the same story but with a different persona.

Satan, Lucifer, yup bad dude #1.

Prior to humanity, God was in Heaven with all of the angels, and one angel in particular was created for a special purpose. But then Lucifer was found to have pride in him. Ezekiel 28:15

So here we have the #1 angel in the kingdom of God, no one is stronger, brighter, more beautiful or perfect than he is, except God. But because he was proud, he wanted to be God. So he started the rebellion which created a War in Heaven. It isn't discussed much, but it is present, and that's because it pertained to a Spiritual Realm and not the physical.

Here, take a look at someone else's leg work on this subject because I don't have the time at work to put it down, and this seems pretty interesting.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/lucifer.html

What I would like to say though is that AFTER this time, is when the time of Man came into play. Thus starts Genesis 1 and on into present.

So do you see the chronology here? There is a time that always has been in the Spiritual realm, a time that mortals can not fathom or understand. Then the physical realm (our reality) was created, and because Satan could NOT attack and or defeat God, he attacks those who bear the image of God, man and woman.

Since the dawn of that time there have been two struggles:

1. against humanity and the increasing evil nature of humanity
2. the deception of satan doesn't exist. If satan can fool humanity into thinking he doesn't exist, then it makes it infinitely more easy to discredit the existence of God.

Now to your point about the stories throughout the cultures.

Satan is an ETERNAL being. Since his creation, PRIOR TO MAN, he has been around. Now after the war in heaven in which 1/3 of the angels were cast down to the newly created Earth, you now have interaction between angelic and human. Some angels took earthly wives and their offspring became the Nephulum or heroes and giants of ancient times. You also have the great Deceiver in Satan who knows God in all three parts, and can corrupt the message.

Have you ever played the telephone game? One person makes a comment by whispering it in the ear of another, and then by the time it gets to the end its altogether different?

So take Satan who is the deceiver and give him the rights and authority to affect the Earth as he is the "god of this age" and tell me he isn't going to corrupt the story to discredit the one and only person who can come to save all of humanity?

By the way, I have something that MIGHT be enlightening to you and others in regards to your comment about being "believers" who've chosen to walk away for other things.

I have to compile my information and I will try to post it tonight. Don't worry it's not a verbal barrage of Scripture, but it is very interesting about transformation.

Be blessed brother and thank you for the continued opportunity to share my thoughts and ideas, as well as beliefs with you. Beleive it or not, it does strengthen my faith because of how hard I have to dig and search in order to share with you. Plus, the struggles of carrying all of you, drive me to the Lord in prayer which is also a good thing.

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November 6th, 2012, 9:39 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Must have hit a nerve, when you belief in Jesus gets tested a little we see deflection - nice tactic.

Then again, we can also look to many previous incarnations (and more recent versions) of "horned beast' in ealier beliefs that lead the Jews/Christians to Satan.

For example, we have Baphomet and imagined Pagen deity (and lets be honest, the Christians have often associated Pagens and Wicca with the Devil)

Does this guy have a familiar look?

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Buddhism has Mara. You can also look up a host of similar evil beings such as Azazel, Beelzebub, Belial, Mastema, Sammael - Hebrew traditions are particularly found of such devious souls.

For a big list of demons check out wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_theological_demons

In-other-words, neither the concept of Jesus or Satan are unique to Christianity. Both concepts are taken from earlier belief systems, pretty surprising how much the Christian version of God lacks creativity. You would think the "creator" would exhibit some semblance of originality, but if we are to believe the Bible to be true he obviously is nothing more than a reproduction of earlier belief systems.

Honestly, I believe God would be an original - don't you?

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November 6th, 2012, 11:31 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
pablo you must have more intreset in faith than you let on. You've been in the same convo for years now....


and just to add My .02 cents.....that is NOT the devil described in the bible. Remember Satan was an angel.

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November 6th, 2012, 11:39 am
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