View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 25th, 2014, 12:24 am



Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Who will you vote for? 

Who will you vote for?
Barack Obama 21%  21%  [ 4 ]
Mitt Romney 53%  53%  [ 10 ]
Some dipshit who has zero chance of winning 26%  26%  [ 5 ]
Undecided 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 19

 Who will you vote for? 
Author Message
Hall of Fame Player
User avatar

Joined: May 7th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Posts: 7443
Location: Earth/Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
I already voted via absentee ballot. I don't like Romney much at all. But, I cannot in good conscience vote for Obama. So, I plugged my nose and voted for the lessor of two evils and voted for Romney.


October 31st, 2012, 12:52 am
Profile
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
Blueskies wrote:
There are couple of underlying assumptions here I would dispute.

First, you assume that defense/war spending has some kind of positive return. It doesn't. Military spending has long-term negative consequences. Our construction bases in Saudi Arabia, for example, leads to catastrophes like 9/11. Our funding of foreign dictators stirs up resentment against our country. Every engineer that works for the military isn't an engineer that could work for an auto company or an electronics company. Military spending is wasteful and damaging. No doubt it is a necessary evil to some extent, but we way overspent and have overspent for the last 50 years. The military budget should be across-the-board cut by at least 50% tomorrow.

Second, I personally don't agree with the line of reasoning, but any intelligent liberal would turn your argument around on you very easily. You say that entitlement spending is a waste of money and has no social returns -- liberals would argue that it creates a better society which fosters a higher standard of living and a more civilized nation. Keeping old people off the street through social security, for example, creates a society where we hold ourselves to a certain level of responsibility.


Defense spending does have a positive return. It lends stability and power to our nation. We absolutely have to maintain our military. That doesn't mean that we have to have bases in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Cuba, Japan, Germany, etc., but it does mean that we need state of the art equipment and the ability to protect ourselves.

I believe the size of our armed forces (i.e. the number of employees that we have working for them) is too large, and I agree that along those lines the budget is grossly inflated. However, I believe that we need to update and build new ships, planes, tanks, etc. and stay on the cutting edge of science.

Of course a Liberal is going to have that view. It's not really turning my reasoning around, it's just a philosophical difference. Liberals believe that people are inherently motivated and will work if given the opportunity. Conservatives believe that people are inherently lazy and poverty will motivate them to be successful. I think history has proven the latter to be the more correct approach.


November 2nd, 2012, 3:34 pm
Commissioner of the NFL – Roger Goodell
User avatar

Joined: August 7th, 2004, 4:47 am
Posts: 10943
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
I would completely agree with Pablo's analysis of this if it were four years ago, but it's not. Times have changed, but they haven't changed fast enough for most to see. Behind the scenes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. While most of the talking heads are concentrated upon the Presidential election, they fail to focus upon the lesser races. THAT'S where the fiscal conservatives are taking over. Delegates, County Party Chairs, State Reps, etc. It's only a matter of time.

From my perspective, stopping Obama's radical socialist agenda is the key. While I have no illusion that Romney will reverse that trend, he will atleast slow it. This country can't afford another four years like the last. Is that ideal? No. But atleast it's better then the alternative.

_________________
Image


November 3rd, 2012, 3:24 pm
Profile
Rookie Player of the Year
User avatar

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 2311
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
slybri19 wrote:
I would completely agree with Pablo's analysis of this if it were four years ago, but it's not. Times have changed, but they haven't changed fast enough for most to see. Behind the scenes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. While most of the talking heads are concentrated upon the Presidential election, they fail to focus upon the lesser races. THAT'S where the fiscal conservatives are taking over. Delegates, County Party Chairs, State Reps, etc. It's only a matter of time.

From my perspective, stopping Obama's radical socialist agenda is the key. While I have no illusion that Romney will reverse that trend, he will atleast slow it. This country can't afford another four years like the last. Is that ideal? No. But atleast it's better then the alternative.


Does the Tea Party masterplan include botching a Senate takeover? Because they already did it once and seem to be cruising to a second self-inflicted disaster.

_________________
Driver of the Jim Caldwell bandwagon. Climb aboard.


November 6th, 2012, 4:54 pm
Profile
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
thelomasbrowns wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I would completely agree with Pablo's analysis of this if it were four years ago, but it's not. Times have changed, but they haven't changed fast enough for most to see. Behind the scenes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. While most of the talking heads are concentrated upon the Presidential election, they fail to focus upon the lesser races. THAT'S where the fiscal conservatives are taking over. Delegates, County Party Chairs, State Reps, etc. It's only a matter of time.

From my perspective, stopping Obama's radical socialist agenda is the key. While I have no illusion that Romney will reverse that trend, he will atleast slow it. This country can't afford another four years like the last. Is that ideal? No. But atleast it's better then the alternative.


Does the Tea Party masterplan include botching a Senate takeover? Because they already did it once and seem to be cruising to a second self-inflicted disaster.


How did they botch a takeover? They can't force people to vote their way. If they didn't get elected it wasn't for lack of effort.

What I think Sly means is that the GOP or Republican party is evolving and it is becoming the party of small and limited government. I believe it too, but most on here won't agree just yet. I agree that we have to see the GOP be willing to cut military spending to really believe, and really reduce the deficit.


November 6th, 2012, 5:09 pm
Rookie Player of the Year
User avatar

Joined: August 24th, 2010, 9:54 pm
Posts: 2311
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I would completely agree with Pablo's analysis of this if it were four years ago, but it's not. Times have changed, but they haven't changed fast enough for most to see. Behind the scenes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. While most of the talking heads are concentrated upon the Presidential election, they fail to focus upon the lesser races. THAT'S where the fiscal conservatives are taking over. Delegates, County Party Chairs, State Reps, etc. It's only a matter of time.

From my perspective, stopping Obama's radical socialist agenda is the key. While I have no illusion that Romney will reverse that trend, he will atleast slow it. This country can't afford another four years like the last. Is that ideal? No. But atleast it's better then the alternative.


Does the Tea Party masterplan include botching a Senate takeover? Because they already did it once and seem to be cruising to a second self-inflicted disaster.


How did they botch a takeover?


Some of the greatest hits:
ImageImageImage

_________________
Driver of the Jim Caldwell bandwagon. Climb aboard.


November 6th, 2012, 5:12 pm
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3827
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I would completely agree with Pablo's analysis of this if it were four years ago, but it's not. Times have changed, but they haven't changed fast enough for most to see. Behind the scenes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. While most of the talking heads are concentrated upon the Presidential election, they fail to focus upon the lesser races. THAT'S where the fiscal conservatives are taking over. Delegates, County Party Chairs, State Reps, etc. It's only a matter of time.

From my perspective, stopping Obama's radical socialist agenda is the key. While I have no illusion that Romney will reverse that trend, he will atleast slow it. This country can't afford another four years like the last. Is that ideal? No. But atleast it's better then the alternative.


Does the Tea Party masterplan include botching a Senate takeover? Because they already did it once and seem to be cruising to a second self-inflicted disaster.


How did they botch a takeover? They can't force people to vote their way. If they didn't get elected it wasn't for lack of effort.

What I think Sly means is that the GOP or Republican party is evolving and it is becoming the party of small and limited government. I believe it too, but most on here won't agree just yet. I agree that we have to see the GOP be willing to cut military spending to really believe, and really reduce the deficit.



i just wanted to stress that word. I hope you are right about the GOP....but im still a doubter of the party. certain candidates im a huge fan of...but the party comes off as democrats in a republicans clothing IMO right now.

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


November 6th, 2012, 5:14 pm
Profile
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
I would completely agree with Pablo's analysis of this if it were four years ago, but it's not. Times have changed, but they haven't changed fast enough for most to see. Behind the scenes, the Tea Party is taking over the GOP. While most of the talking heads are concentrated upon the Presidential election, they fail to focus upon the lesser races. THAT'S where the fiscal conservatives are taking over. Delegates, County Party Chairs, State Reps, etc. It's only a matter of time.

From my perspective, stopping Obama's radical socialist agenda is the key. While I have no illusion that Romney will reverse that trend, he will atleast slow it. This country can't afford another four years like the last. Is that ideal? No. But atleast it's better then the alternative.


Does the Tea Party masterplan include botching a Senate takeover? Because they already did it once and seem to be cruising to a second self-inflicted disaster.


How did they botch a takeover? They can't force people to vote their way. If they didn't get elected it wasn't for lack of effort.

What I think Sly means is that the GOP or Republican party is evolving and it is becoming the party of small and limited government. I believe it too, but most on here won't agree just yet. I agree that we have to see the GOP be willing to cut military spending to really believe, and really reduce the deficit.



i just wanted to stress that word. I hope you are right about the GOP....but im still a doubter of the party. certain candidates im a huge fan of...but the party comes off as democrats in a republicans clothing IMO right now.


I don't disagree. All I can do is point to Democrats becoming increasingly socialist (so don't vote for them!... If they're "all the same" at least vote for the least socialist of the two!), and Reps are at least professing a message of smaller govt. and reduced spending, at the behest of the American people.

I think the GOP "gets it," I think they know where the American public wants them to be, and I think they see the outrage growing in hard working Americans that want the entitlement spending, growing government and national deficit stopped.


November 6th, 2012, 5:18 pm
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3827
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
I promise you i did not Vote Obama....you wont be haapy with who i did vote for (hint it wasn't "Obama White" either) But it was not a democrats. I didnt vote for sa single dem this election. there were a few guys I didnt know. when in doubt i voted libertarian lol

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


November 6th, 2012, 5:23 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: August 21st, 2005, 3:36 am
Posts: 3142
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
Well Sly, I think the results show that you're completely wrong about the tea party. They aren't taking over anything. Look at the results for the tea party candidates:

Mourdock: lost
Cruz: won
Scott Brown: lost
Josh Mandel: lost
Walsh: lost

and so on...

In fact I'm trying to go through races to find tea party candidates who won, and it's difficult. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that nearly all of the tea party candidates lost. Am I wrong about that? Assuming I'm not, how exactly is the tea party transforming or taking over the republican party? Seems to me they're being pretty strongly rejected.

And I say all this as someone who doesn't like either the republican or democrat parties. I didn't vote for either.

_________________
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson


November 7th, 2012, 1:01 am
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1166
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
The democrats must be delighted that not only have the republicans lost, but they appear ready to completely misunderstand the reason why they lost.

Whilst it may be comforting to believe that Obama is simply a socialist president, appealing to those who receives entitlements, and that a lurch further to the right (or "more assertively articulating" right wing ideas) will see them good, this strategy will only spell further problems for the GOP.

They need to recognise that Obama has succesfully taken the middle ground, that it is this ground where elections are won or lost, and that less extremism, not more, will see them with a better chance of election next time.


November 7th, 2012, 10:58 am
Profile
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
UK Lion wrote:
The democrats must be delighted that not only have the republicans lost, but they appear ready to completely misunderstand the reason why they lost.

Whilst it may be comforting to believe that Obama is simply a socialist president, appealing to those who receives entitlements, and that a lurch further to the right (or "more assertively articulating" right wing ideas) will see them good, this strategy will only spell further problems for the GOP.

They need to recognise that Obama has succesfully taken the middle ground, that it is this ground where elections are won or lost, and that less extremism, not more, will see them with a better chance of election next time.


UK, I really don't think you get it. Obama didn't "take the middle ground," in fact, he didn't take any ground. He along with the media successfully stemmed off positive policy directives with negative attacks and, well, bullshit and lies. That's the bottom line. Obama was allowed to sit there and lie directly to the faces of the American public, and the media failed to do anything about it. It was utterly disgusting watching the last election cycle.


November 7th, 2012, 5:57 pm
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
Well Sly, I think the results show that you're completely wrong about the tea party. They aren't taking over anything. Look at the results for the tea party candidates:

Mourdock: lost
Cruz: won
Scott Brown: lost
Josh Mandel: lost
Walsh: lost

and so on...

In fact I'm trying to go through races to find tea party candidates who won, and it's difficult. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that nearly all of the tea party candidates lost. Am I wrong about that? Assuming I'm not, how exactly is the tea party transforming or taking over the republican party? Seems to me they're being pretty strongly rejected.

And I say all this as someone who doesn't like either the republican or democrat parties. I didn't vote for either.


Like I said TDJ, it depends what Sly meant by "takeover." I think Sly just meant that the Tea Party philosophy of balancing the budget, reducing taxes, making American more business friendly, and getting away from Religion, defense spending, etc. seems to be taking over the GOP.


November 7th, 2012, 5:58 pm
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1166
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
The democrats must be delighted that not only have the republicans lost, but they appear ready to completely misunderstand the reason why they lost.

Whilst it may be comforting to believe that Obama is simply a socialist president, appealing to those who receives entitlements, and that a lurch further to the right (or "more assertively articulating" right wing ideas) will see them good, this strategy will only spell further problems for the GOP.

They need to recognise that Obama has succesfully taken the middle ground, that it is this ground where elections are won or lost, and that less extremism, not more, will see them with a better chance of election next time.


UK, I really don't think you get it. Obama didn't "take the middle ground," in fact, he didn't take any ground. He along with the media successfully stemmed off positive policy directives with negative attacks and, well, bullshit and lies. That's the bottom line. Obama was allowed to sit there and lie directly to the faces of the American public, and the media failed to do anything about it. It was utterly disgusting watching the last election cycle.

It's easier to accept a loss by saying "he won because he cheated" than it is to say "he won because he did better".

It's harder to work out how to win yourself in future by saying "he won because he cheated" than it is to say "he won because he did better, how can I?".

I think that the Rep party is a confused hodge podge of various different stances, many of which are unattractive to the electorate. Is it the Tea Party, is it a small government Libitarian style party, is it a religious conservative party etc? Truth is, very few of those stances will garner the broad based support needed. Many of them will turn off, and have turned off, the broad based support needed.

Being the party of evangelical white men doesn't win you presidential elections in the US any more. Embracing the religious right won some gains in the short term, with the Bush presidency, but will, I believe, cost the Rep party in the long term. It's narrowed its base too much.

Perhaps claiming Obama claimed the middle ground is a stretch, but suggesting the Republicans vacated it (whether on economic or social issues) is not IMO.


November 7th, 2012, 6:13 pm
Profile
ST Coordinator – Danny Crossman
User avatar

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 am
Posts: 3827
Location: Davison Mi
Post Re: Who will you vote for?
UK Lion wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
The democrats must be delighted that not only have the republicans lost, but they appear ready to completely misunderstand the reason why they lost.

Whilst it may be comforting to believe that Obama is simply a socialist president, appealing to those who receives entitlements, and that a lurch further to the right (or "more assertively articulating" right wing ideas) will see them good, this strategy will only spell further problems for the GOP.

They need to recognise that Obama has succesfully taken the middle ground, that it is this ground where elections are won or lost, and that less extremism, not more, will see them with a better chance of election next time.


UK, I really don't think you get it. Obama didn't "take the middle ground," in fact, he didn't take any ground. He along with the media successfully stemmed off positive policy directives with negative attacks and, well, bullshit and lies. That's the bottom line. Obama was allowed to sit there and lie directly to the faces of the American public, and the media failed to do anything about it. It was utterly disgusting watching the last election cycle.

It's easier to accept a loss by saying "he won because he cheated" than it is to say "he won because he did better".

It's harder to work out how to win yourself in future by saying "he won because he cheated" than it is to say "he won because he did better, how can I?".

I think that the Rep party is a confused hodge podge of various different stances, many of which are unattractive to the electorate. Is it the Tea Party, is it a small government Libitarian style party, is it a religious conservative party etc? Truth is, very few of those stances will garner the broad based support needed. Many of them will turn off, and have turned off, the broad based support needed.

Being the party of evangelical white men doesn't win you presidential elections in the US any more. Embracing the religious right won some gains in the short term, with the Bush presidency, but will, I believe, cost the Rep party in the long term. It's narrowed its base too much.

Perhaps claiming Obama claimed the middle ground is a stretch, but suggesting the Republicans vacated it (whether on economic or social issues) is not IMO.

I disagree UK..where Obama cleared the Gap was with the Latino vote...which is a VASTLY gorwing demographic here. republicans alienated them with the hard stance on imigration. As you pointed out you can not win with just the white male vote... you need "minorities" as well.

_________________
2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion


November 7th, 2012, 6:44 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.