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 GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney 
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney
By a show of votes, how many have ever had VA medical care?

Anyone?

VA care IS government healthcare, and up until the resurgence of war in the middle East care was middle of the road at best.

Could someone who's so gifted please do a comparison of the Medical Care of these countries that run a Socialized HC system.

Canada
England,
Russia

We could probably do more countries, but that would take A LOT of time. What interests me, is that each of these countries have a HC system that they don't have to pay for. But how many times have we heard of people being unable to get seen, or appointments?

Has anyone ever lived in government housing? middle of the road
Government food? pretty good stuff for generic

What I'm saying as a Conservative, is that what is being created is DEPENDENCY!

We've discussed this before, if the government covers housing, medical, food, utilities, cell phones, where is the incentive to work generated? Uncle Sam pays for everything whether you work or not, so why work?

Now create that dependency, and you have CONTROL over your population. I'm amazed at how many people were so anti-patriot act, but have actually said very little about what's going on now. Welcome to the plantation!

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November 15th, 2012, 5:54 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney
TheRealWags wrote:
frok wrote:
The owner of the company I work for said before the election if Obama wins again she would not expand the business more. There were plans in the talking stages of another 200 + jobs within the next 2 years now.......who knows
Something I'm a bit curious about when I hear stuff like this. One would think that a company would consider expanding if the demand or need is there, right? Likewise if the demand / need wasn't enough, they would have to consider contracting / cutting back. That being said, can someone explain to why a different resident of the White House, who most consider to be a figure head as Congress has the real power, would have any effect on demand or need for a company?


Expansion can only be done where it's afforded. Even if there is higher demand, if they can't afford to expand, or if the profits of expanding is outweighed by the cost, you don't do it, period. Look at all of the companies cutting employees AND hours in the wake of the election and in anticipation of Obamacare. The list is long, and it's not without merit.

regularjoe12 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
frok wrote:
The owner of the company I work for said before the election if Obama wins again she would not expand the business more. There were plans in the talking stages of another 200 + jobs within the next 2 years now.......who knows
Something I'm a bit curious about when I hear stuff like this. One would think that a company would consider expanding if the demand or need is there, right? Likewise if the demand / need wasn't enough, they would have to consider contracting / cutting back. That being said, can someone explain to why a different resident of the White House, who most consider to be a figure head as Congress has the real power, would have any effect on demand or need for a company?


I assume he is talking about the increased cost that having 200+ more full time employement plus benefits would entail....but i cant be sure cuz if the company is that big, they probably already offer health insurance....so im a little confused as well.


RJ, the problem is that most of these companies offer programs that SHARE the expense of the program with the employee. For example, my Cousin works for ARS, they make seats for the G6 Jet. It's a relatively small business (less than 200 employees), and the EMPLOYEES pay approximately $2,400 for their health care per year. Obama care does requires that the employee receive BETTER health care than most minimum plans currently offer, which will up the price. The employer has a choice, 1) offer the higher care, share the costs, and eat the expenses, which will piss off the current employees, or 2) cut the benefits altogether, pay the $2k penalty (which may be more than the employer is currently contributing), which will also piss off the employees. It's a lose-lose proposition, so companies are contracting and/or holding off on expanding to see how it all plays out.

I don't believe a company can pick and choose which employees it wishes to cover under the old plan, and which employees it will "pay the penalty on" or choose to not cover. I could be wrong about that, however, but if I am right, it is a detrimental proposition. Employees NEVER want to receive less for the same work. In prior factories I have worked at, even when the employer tried to get rid of BAD BEHAVIOR (impromptu cigarette breaks, impromptu coffee breaks, installing cameras to curb theft, etc) employees ALWAYS reacted negatively. New employees have a different attitude, after all, they CHOSE the job based on the job being better than what they had. I think it would be easier if "new" employees could not be covered, while old employees could remain covered, but like I said, I could be wrong about the entire premise, but part of the problem is, I don't really believe that ANYONE can answer my question properly right now. Literally NO ONE knows what this bill looks like, including the businesses that have to pay for it (which is a problem in and of itself for an over-arching HUGE piece of legislation that NO ONE knows what's really in it), and businesses HATE instability (which is inherent in an environment of not knowing).


thelomasbrowns wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
frok wrote:
The owner of the company I work for said before the election if Obama wins again she would not expand the business more. There were plans in the talking stages of another 200 + jobs within the next 2 years now.......who knows
Something I'm a bit curious about when I hear stuff like this. One would think that a company would consider expanding if the demand or need is there, right? Likewise if the demand / need wasn't enough, they would have to consider contracting / cutting back. That being said, can someone explain to why a different resident of the White House, who most consider to be a figure head as Congress has the real power, would have any effect on demand or need for a company?


Bill Kristol said in 1993 that Republicans had to defeat Clinton's healthcare plan not because it was disastrous, but because once it was in place, people would like it too much and vote for Democrats. Romneycare is very popular in Massachusetts.

The Democrats made a political blunder when they scheduled the most obvious benefits of the health care plan to phase in in 2014, and already half the country wants to keep it. Once it's fully implemented, expect that to rise to 75% or higher. That's why Republicans and their Chamber of Commerce buddies are so scared.


I doubt it. It's much more going to be the case that we're looking how to get rid of that pile of sh!t piece of legislation in 4 years, if not sooner. The reason the "benefits" were put off is because he didn't want people to see the "effects" before the election, period. The Dems put every position they wanted in there and shoved it through Congress. They could have had it accelerate sooner IF they wanted to, they didn't, and for good reason.


November 15th, 2012, 6:30 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney
Thanks for the input wjb. Good points.


Sadly once obamacare is implemented it will never go away. If the powers that be truely care it will be tinkered with massively over then next decade, but once it's here, it will be here to stay. If tweaked right, it may not be all that bad. But that going to take politians who are willing to put the benefit of the country above politics...

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November 15th, 2012, 7:58 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney
From reading the discussion here, you would never guess that much of the concept of Obamacare & its mandates (and the program it was copied FROM in Mass) ... originated with the Heritage Foundation - a conservative think tank.

All this bluster from business about Obamacare is just that - bluster.

The Republicans are full of fact-free bluster. It is astonishing the ideas and "fact-free facts" that get institutionalized within the Republican echo chamber.

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November 17th, 2012, 6:35 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney
"There's a world of difference between truth and facts. Facts can obscure the truth." Maya Angelou

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November 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney
WarEr4Christ wrote:
"There's a world of difference between truth and facts. Facts can obscure the truth." Maya Angelou


Well ... I'm quite confident that quote should not be used - ever - by a Republican.

I suggest you ask Maya's permission first, and explain the context to her to check if she agrees with your use of her words. Because that's just another example of a well-meant quote - twisted by a knave, to make a trap for fools.

Believe me, my man - Maya was not criticizing equality and and freedcom-loving and truth-seeking people on behalf of the willfully ignorant. She was talking about how bullshit data hides truths like racism... that exist in euphamisms like Paul Ryan's "the *Urban* vote is why we lost"... that's YOUR side, my man. Not Maya's.


November 17th, 2012, 10:11 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney
Funny how your freedom loving truth seeking people comment sounds so VERY much like the "peace loving people" of the democractic republic of whichever communist nation you would like to choose.

I also find it amusing that you've used truth seeking when this administration has been anything but truthfully and transparent. But then again I cant expect a whole lot of integrity from the likes of Bill Maher.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 17th, 2012, 11:34 pm
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