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 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Why would he be original if it all started with him? If he's the creator, wouldn't every belief in him just differ in interpretation as cultures different, but maintain the same core? It's really no different than our interpretation of Sunday's game. We all believe it was a win. Some believe it's because CJ was able to go and that opened up the running game. Other's believe it was because the Jags were just that bad. And there's multiple other reasons that could be associated to the same core knowledge that it was a win.

God isn't visible, so our imaginations try to picture that as best we can. You can ask 100 people to imagine the same thing and you'd get 100 different variations of that thing. You could ask 5 painters to paint the Eiffel Tower and you'd get 5 different paintings. This doesn't show that people are copying others, especially since many of the cultures and religions you mentioned never had contact with each other. It just shows that they had common inspiration. We're individuals. Variance but similar is to be expected.


November 6th, 2012, 11:42 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
njroar wrote:
Why would he be original if it all started with him? If he's the creator, wouldn't every belief in him just differ in interpretation as cultures different, but maintain the same core? It's really no different than our interpretation of Sunday's game. We all believe it was a win. Some believe it's because CJ was able to go and that opened up the running game. Other's believe it was because the Jags were just that bad. And there's multiple other reasons that could be associated to the same core knowledge that it was a win.

God isn't visible, so our imaginations try to picture that as best we can. You can ask 100 people to imagine the same thing and you'd get 100 different variations of that thing. You could ask 5 painters to paint the Eiffel Tower and you'd get 5 different paintings. This doesn't show that people are copying others, especially since many of the cultures and religions you mentioned never had contact with each other. It just shows that they had common inspiration. We're individuals. Variance but similar is to be expected.


But the Bible is claimed to be the "inspired" word of God - not of that of a collection of individuals. Other than that your logic is sound and likely does tell the story of how the Bible came together. It is based on a common inspiration, man's inherent need to "believe" in something. Since it is truly mans work, the similarity is indeed expected.

Now to your example of the Eiffel Tower, that is a man created structure. Would you happen to have a problem if a few years later God inspired a monument somewhere else, say Spain - the men claimed that designed it happened to get divine inspiration from the big man himself. Yet this creation looked like this?

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Personally, I'd have a hard time buying that essentially a carbon copy design was "God Inspired" - but then again, I don't have a strong interest to believe in the premise that he exists so it is easy for me to spot an unoriginal duplicate.

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November 6th, 2012, 11:52 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
My post wasn't about the Bible itself. Just about the deities that you described from other religions. I was just pointing out that the commonality of other religions to Christianity, especially the ones that predate it. Some of the examples of things stolen from other religions would only be possible if they had actual contact with each other and for some, it wasn't possible.


November 6th, 2012, 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
njroar wrote:
My post wasn't about the Bible itself. Just about the deities that you described from other religions. I was just pointing out that the commonality of other religions to Christianity, especially the ones that predate it. Some of the examples of things stolen from other religions would only be possible if they had actual contact with each other and for some, it wasn't possible.


Actually, when I point out the Jesus-like figures - most of them do originate from that part of the world so communication was not only possible, it was very common and followed trade routes. I'm not pulling Jesus-like figures from Mayans or Aztecs, but rather the Egyptians, Greeks, Indians, etc.

Most of the similar belief systems ranged from Northern Africa into Southern Asia. Draw a line on a map from the Western Sahara through Southern China and you will find many similarities in the dieties the worshipped.

There is an obvious reason why and you captured some of that in your post.

regularjoe12 wrote:
pablo you must have more intreset in faith than you let on. You've been in the same convo for years now....


I do have quite a bit of interest in faith. I've been trying to get WE4C to expand his understanding of Jesus for a couple of years now - I'd be facinated to see how he would view his "relationship" if he ever truly grasped the real bigger picture at play. I was hoping that since he keeps giving me things to look at (which I often had), he would reciprocate but that obviously hasn't happened nor is it likely to.

As such, I'll back out of this thread for awhile and focus what is really important in life - Lions football of course!

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November 6th, 2012, 12:14 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I guess I'm just too dense, and unbending, because I can't see this "bigger picture" that I supposedly need to see in order to enhance my relationship with Jesus, oh excuse me, God.

It sounds as if I'm standing on the edge of this great forest, but this dog gone tree is in my way so I can't see it. Somebody got a chain saw?

What exactly am I being offered here that enhances my relationship? Or what am I not seeing that is limiting my ability to see?

Because according to my faith, I'm pursuing Jesus, the Son of God, and I'm doing what I've been called to do, and that's to make a difference in the lives of those I've been given charge over. Sometimes I win, most times I don't but in all times, I am determined to be and do as I see my father being and doing.



Question: If Jesus came into this human realm, blowing the doors off, smoking his enemies, wiping out the saducees, and pharisees, and kicking the Romans to the curb, would he be easier to worship then? Is the fact that he came so humbly, lived humbly, worked with the poor, through the poor, and for humanity that was outside of the successful so hard to believe in him?

I mean think of it: a humble man, who was reported to be the son of God, turns water into wine in front of witnesses, heals people, raises the dead, and ministers to those in desperate need, and all of it witnessed and documented, and it's just TOO far fetched to believe?

It goes back to the straw man that Eric likes to poke holes in.... claiming some kind of uber intelligence as to why this theory fails.

If there is no God, and I live like there is, blessing people according to what I understand, see, and feel, that's a bonus. When I die, I get to be worm food like everyone else except, the world has been a better place because of the people who've been blessed by my presence in their lives, if only for a moment.

But if there is a God and I live like there is, blessing people according to what I understand, see, and feel, that's a bonus too! Because I will have been found obedient in what I was charged to do, and when I die, I'm ushered into the presence of God. So either way is a win/win proposition for me.

BUT, if I blow by example 2 living how I want to, doing my thing, and there is a God, I'm suddenly without an excuse for my actions and entitled to judgment. UH Oh!

So rest assured I live my life KNOWING there is a God, and doing my best to serve Him out of love for Him, and then mankind. Nothing that I do is focused on me, and I don't benefit from serving the Lord by driving Cadillac's and expensive suits, or airplanes and makeup. Just a simple man wiht a strong work ethic that seeks to live by example, serve out of love, and do what needs to be done regardless of how ugly or dirty.

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November 6th, 2012, 3:17 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo: the other day I alluded to having some more information based upon one of our recent conversations. In that conversation and I paraphrase, you had stated something to the effect of you and other former believers…. What has caught my attention in that, and therefore led to this posting is about transformation. I’m not sure if I spoke of it or not, but when a person makes a decision to accept Jesus into their lives and heart, a transformation takes place. Our old nature is taken off, and a new nature is put on.

Could I at this point ask a question? Was it a Catholic church, or some other well established organized faith? The reason I ask is that we humans have a tendency to establish rules and regulations in order to create boundaries. It’s like a safety mechanism, and it satisfies our need for comfort, by understanding what we are allowed to do, and not allowed to do.

So now we have Rules and Regulations, or Rituals that we do because that’s what we’ve always done, and if done long enough we can’t really tell you why we originally started doing them. At this point if an inquisitive mind wants to know why we do such and such, and there are no answers that adequately explain why things are done, the inquisitive mind becomes disenfranchised and generally walks away. OR, you have a scenario where people get tired of the same old rituals and there’s no life to their faith, so anything outside of a dead faith seems more appealing. Now please keep in mind that these are general scenarios, and that there are as many more as there are people who’ve walked away, but these are the easiest to discuss.

Let me show you an example from Scripture: Colossians 3: 1-10,” Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God’s right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is our life, is revealed to the whole world you will share in all his glory. So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. Because of these sins, the anger of God is coming. You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and foul language. Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds. Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him.”

You have also asked me whether I pick and choose the attributes of Jesus that I choose to follow and that answer is no. Everyday is a battle for me, a battle to submit my will, my sinful nature to the will of God. Sometimes it’s a victory, sometimes a defeat but it’s always a battle. Because I’ve made the decision to follow Christ, He is my target, He is my shepherd and I’m doing what I can to follow him, wherever he goes. But sometimes He goes to places I don’t want to go, either because of fear, or anger, or selfishness, or whatever, so then the battle begins, and sometimes it rages for a long time, but IF I am to follow Christ, my will MUST submit to his.

Because of what I’ve experienced and know, and what the Lord has impressed upon my heart with those of you in here that I’m praying for, I feel a strong desire to continue to share, discuss, pray for as I’m allowed.

2 Corinthians 5:11, 13-20, “Because we understand our fearful responsibility to the Lord, we work hard to persuade others.” 13 – 20, “If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. Either way, Christ’s love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life. He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them. So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun! And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him. For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!” For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.”

There’s more to say but this is enough for now, be blessed fellas, I’m still praying!!!

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 8th, 2012, 9:32 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I just thought I'd share link to an article I wrote, I hope you enjoy it.

Be blessed and have a wonderful Thanksgiving Day.

Go Lions, EAT TEXANS!

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November 21st, 2012, 3:56 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pablo wrote:
njroar wrote:
My post wasn't about the Bible itself. Just about the deities that you described from other religions. I was just pointing out that the commonality of other religions to Christianity, especially the ones that predate it. Some of the examples of things stolen from other religions would only be possible if they had actual contact with each other and for some, it wasn't possible.


Actually, when I point out the Jesus-like figures - most of them do originate from that part of the world so communication was not only possible, it was very common and followed trade routes. I'm not pulling Jesus-like figures from Mayans or Aztecs, but rather the Egyptians, Greeks, Indians, etc.

Most of the similar belief systems ranged from Northern Africa into Southern Asia. Draw a line on a map from the Western Sahara through Southern China and you will find many similarities in the dieties the worshipped.

There is an obvious reason why and you captured some of that in your post.

regularjoe12 wrote:
pablo you must have more intreset in faith than you let on. You've been in the same convo for years now....


I do have quite a bit of interest in faith. I've been trying to get WE4C to expand his understanding of Jesus for a couple of years now - I'd be facinated to see how he would view his "relationship" if he ever truly grasped the real bigger picture at play. I was hoping that since he keeps giving me things to look at (which I often had), he would reciprocate but that obviously hasn't happened nor is it likely to.

As such, I'll back out of this thread for awhile and focus what is really important in life - Lions football of course!



I too have tried to open his mind to a broader way of thinking and dont believe I've had much luck. It doesn't really bother me, as I truly believe he has the best intentions at heart. He just doesn't realize that you can't preach to skeptics. Preaching only teaches the mind that's open to it. To a skeptic it sounds too much like as sales pitch....heck I'm a born again and most of the time they do to me too. Too often bible verses are used as weapons, and far too many real weapons have been created in the name of faith throughout history that people have a reason to be sceptic!

But that doesn't make what he's trying to say any less untru.....ok I can't finish that one...to many dooms day theories....how bout....sinsere, or heartfelt. He has found something great and he loves it so much that he wants to share it with everyone, including those he considers his friends. He's really the same old story in today's consumer products. He's got a great product....but bad marketing plans! Lol

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November 21st, 2012, 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
It continues to be painfully obvious that we're speaking a different langauge, but that's cool, its more amusing than anything else.

I have looked at Pablos recommended "information" but my responses continue to be refuted and that just continues to verify that our perspectives are different.

Having said that, I posted the article because it is MY own story. That is the only thing that I can truly reference and know for certain. As Pablo already knows, I have logged numerous things that I've learned and gone through, that have been written down so that others can see it if they wish. The article was the latest "revelation" in my on going journey and it is my hope that through my experiences someone else might learn something. It's like a pathfinder leaving a trail for those behind him.

My intentions are and have been good. I care deeply for those I consider "friends" on this board, and I continue to lift you before the Lord. My hope is that one day this will become clear, and it will be easier to communicate. Till then, I will continue to share my story in hopes that someone will take the chance to follow.

Happy Thanksgiving y'all, and may the Lord bless us each and everyone!

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 23rd, 2012, 11:45 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Okay here's one for Pablo!

Horizontal evolution vs. Vertical evolution

Where's the evidence?


I heard the term the other day and thought, "Wow, that makes so much sense", but before fully buying into the theory I went to Google and pulled it up. While looking at it, I came across an article AGAINST the Institution for Creation Research by Jack Scanlon.

The article went on to discuss the differences between the two macro and micro evolution, and then proceeded to suggest that macro (vertical evolution) is actually micro (horizontal evolution) + time. Although that is a convenient excuse it still does not answer the question of where's the physical proof in skeletal remains, fossils, or dna?

Please advise....

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 3rd, 2012, 10:45 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
does not answer the question of where's the physical proof in skeletal remains, fossils, or dna?

Please advise....


Physical proof is not always 100%, some is lost over time. Different timeframes and geographical climates are more favorable to evidence than others. You get a full Whoolly Mammoth thanks to the cold climate perserving the fossil record.

We continue to piece together more and more of the evolutionary tree every day. Some of these sciences are only a few hundred years old, while DNA science is even newer and we have only begun to map out most species.

I'm not sure why this matters, if 100% evidence for evolution existed belief systems would simply shift to accomodate them like all the other scientific findings. It is easy to go back and "reinterpret" vauge readings to have new meaning.

I have personally never understood why evolution in anyway disproves creationism, it just puts a different spin on how creationism occured...

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December 3rd, 2012, 7:31 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination but I really struggle with the lack of evidence from ape to man. It is assumed that because we are 98% similar that we are from the same tree.

In a rudimentary explanation, if I have a forest of pine trees, there all the same family line but aren't there different variations?

What brought this to mind and why I've included it hear is that the NATURAL way is "the strong shall survive". The die off due to disease, or are food on hoof for other predators, but the natural sequence is that the strong survive and feed on the weak. By way of horizontal evolution, the weak adapt in order to survive but they don't change vertically.

I brought this up because: one, it was interesting, and two evolution is used to disprove the Creation theory. This in turn is used to counter claim the Bible, and then travels into many other lines of thought.

I was interested in getting you opinion on this mainly because I know that we've discussed evolution, amicably, before and you've even watched some information from the ICR before. I wasn't looking for a debate per se, I just wanted to see what others had to say about the two different forms of DNA.

Now to my next question: Science has proven through Macro DNA I believe it was that we (humanity) originate from a single birth mother, and they were able to trace that through female DNA structures. What is the difference there between the two DNA types structures that they've talked about for evolution?

Please keep in mind I am a knuckle dragger, and evolved to quit drooling and now speak sentences, so speak slowly please.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 4th, 2012, 9:27 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination but I really struggle with the lack of evidence from ape to man. It is assumed that because we are 98% similar that we are from the same tree.

In a rudimentary explanation, if I have a forest of pine trees, there all the same family line but aren't there different variations?

What brought this to mind and why I've included it hear is that the NATURAL way is "the strong shall survive". The die off due to disease, or are food on hoof for other predators, but the natural sequence is that the strong survive and feed on the weak. By way of horizontal evolution, the weak adapt in order to survive but they don't change vertically.

I brought this up because: one, it was interesting, and two evolution is used to disprove the Creation theory. This in turn is used to counter claim the Bible, and then travels into many other lines of thought.

I was interested in getting you opinion on this mainly because I know that we've discussed evolution, amicably, before and you've even watched some information from the ICR before. I wasn't looking for a debate per se, I just wanted to see what others had to say about the two different forms of DNA.

Now to my next question: Science has proven through Macro DNA I believe it was that we (humanity) originate from a single birth mother, and they were able to trace that through female DNA structures. What is the difference there between the two DNA types structures that they've talked about for evolution?

Please keep in mind I am a knuckle dragger, and evolved to quit drooling and now speak sentences, so speak slowly please.



Very good questions w4c. I'm impressed.

I agree with Pablo's question about why theologists think that evolution is against creationism. It kind of baffles my mind. To me evolution is just common sense.

If you were the all powerful one creating a world nd all it's beings, would you create 100 different breads of dogs...or just a few and give them the ability to adapt and evolve to any environment they find themselves in? From a loving god perspective, wouldn't it just be the loving thing to do, to give your creation the ability to be able to change as the world and their environment changes?

You can't deny that as a species we are getting taller, our skulls are changing to the point that the back wisdom teeth don't even fit anymore. The spleen is basically useless for anything other than exploding.

On a side note, it has been a long time since I've had any formal education on the subject, but I thought the modern theory is, while we are a cousin to the primate line, they no longer believe we are a descendant of them anymore.

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December 4th, 2012, 8:11 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
"Yeah me", I'm now "smarter people that I" approved!!! :P

I like your question about the dogs but in response I was curious about something.

What if the different breeds of dogs were necessary to propagate the species instead of getting the genetic mutations of interbreeding? In looking at the Amish community, they would inter-marry sometimes too closely, and this caused severe disformaties and genetic mutations to the point that they were having to branch out to Amish communities in Pennsylvania to add some variety to the gene pool. Wouldn't that apply with animals too?

I don't really have a problem with evolutionists per se, especially since there is so much evidence for horizontal evolution, which is what you were talking about in our skulls changing and so on. But there is zero evidence for vertical evolution, and trying to say that time plus horizontal evolution equals vertical evolution is a cop out. The fact that we can find physical evidence from "millions" of years ago that help illustrate horizontal evolution, but can't find any evidence of vertical evolution, leads me to ask, "How much time do you need?"

Evolutionist, or militant evolutionist, use that theory and people's (such as my own) ignorance to disprove creationism, because to authenticate a creation story is to realize that man is NOT the supreme being, but a created entity, which in turns means that there is someone greater than us. This someone, God, has told Creationists the story, proven the point of all the questions from dinosaurs to present in writing, but also given us a story of what IS going to happen. However, we (mankind) do not wish to believe that story, because that means we are powerless and finite, and therefore can not control our destiny as a species.

Let's go back to mankind and look at the genetic variations and from what I remember there is a formula for blood types. Take a man and woman and bring them together, the breeding of two different blood types goes into the mix with the man being on the lower vertical leg and the woman on the horizontal leg. Between the two you have a 1 in 4 chance of a particular blood type. I don't remember the exact breakdown, but it's quite interesting. As for DNA, I'm sure its even more complex, and interesting to those who aren't knuckledraggers and droolers like myself.

Oh and from what I understand the Spleen is storage unit for Red Blood Cells, and also participates in the creation of new RBC's too. It, by itself, contains about 1 liter of blood, along with 1 liter per Femur, out of a total of 6 to 8 liters per human body. That's why a ruptured spleen is so dangerous!

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 5th, 2012, 9:34 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I don't know about y'all but I miss the story lines. This one in particular tho often reworked, still remains interesting and convicting.

So listen to Paul Harvy and Good Day!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Az0okaHig

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February 15th, 2013, 10:17 am
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