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 GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day) 
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
m2karateman wrote:
(which is a STUPID F#$&*ING RULE, by the way).


Everyone thinks the rules are f***ing stupid. It's getting hard to watch the NFL this year with such BS calls/non calls in not only Lions games, but others as well.

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November 25th, 2012, 11:30 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
A friend and I were talking about this new rule development and I had a thought. If throwing the challenge flag on an automatically reviewed play makes it unreviewable, wouldn't it make sense to throw the flag if your team scored or got a t.o. On a questionable play?


Take the bears game for example....they had a deflection that hit the ground but it appeared as if it was kicked to the db so it was called a pick and got a huge return...wouldn't it of been smart for lovie to challenge the spot of the ball? Challenging an auto replay makes it unreviewable doesn't it? That play doesn't get looked at again and the bears get a free t.o for the small price of 15 yards.

It's a huge reason that rule needs to be done with....unless I'm misunderstanding how that rule works.

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November 26th, 2012, 8:37 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
regularjoe12 wrote:
A friend and I were talking about this new rule development and I had a thought. If throwing the challenge flag on an automatically reviewed play makes it unreviewable, wouldn't it make sense to throw the flag if your team scored or got a t.o. On a questionable play?


Take the bears game for example....they had a deflection that hit the ground but it appeared as if it was kicked to the db so it was called a pick and got a huge return...wouldn't it of been smart for lovie to challenge the spot of the ball? Challenging an auto replay makes it unreviewable doesn't it? That play doesn't get looked at again and the bears get a free t.o for the small price of 15 yards.

It's a huge reason that rule needs to be done with....unless I'm misunderstanding how that rule works.


It's only unreviewable if your team would benefit from the overturned call.

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November 26th, 2012, 9:32 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Freep wrote:
Riley Reiff's 1st start with Lions goes smoothly
November 26, 2012

Riley Reiff earned mostly high marks for his first career start at left tackle in Thursday's overtime loss to the Texans.

Reiff was called for one first-quarter penalty for illegal hands to the face but didn't allow a sack and held his own in largely one-on-one blocking situations, playing all 89 snaps in place of the injured Jeff Backus.

"It obviously hurts not having Jeff, but I think Riley went in there and played great ball," left guard Rob Sims said after the game. "I think he went in there and whoever was in there, he went in there and attacked them and played them and handled himself very professional.

"There's always going to be some growing pains, too. There's going to be a couple plays that you miss during the game. That's for the vets of 12 years or a rookie, but he handled business. He's fearless. That's the thing about him: He's fearless."

Reiff was matched up primarily with outside linebacker Connor Barwin, and though a tight end often lined up to his side, he rarely got help.

Barwin finished the game with just two tackles and one quarterback hit, but he did get Reiff off-balance with an inside move and beat him back outside midway through the fourth quarter, forcing Matthew Stafford to step up in the pocket where J.J. Watt buried him for a sack.

Watt, the front-runner for defensive player of the year, gave Reiff some trouble on running plays early, beating him inside twice in the first quarter to blow up Mikel Leshoure carries that went for 1-yard gains.

But Reiff, who played exclusively as a sixth offensive lineman and often lined up as an H-back through the first 10 games, had good blocks on the Lions' two longest plays of overtime, running Barwin past Stafford on a 40-yard pass to Ryan Broyles to open the extra period and walling off Watt on a 14-yard Stafford pass to Tony Scheffler.

Backus' availability for this week's game against the Colts isn't known, and Lions coach Jim Schwartz wouldn't say Thursday who starts once Backus' strained hamstring is healed.

"That's way too hypothetical," Schwartz said. "But Jeff's always come back and he's worked really hard to do that and he's an incredibly tough guy, so we'll just have to wait and see."

Contact Dave Birkett: 313-222-2037 or dbirkett@freepress.com. Follow him on Twitter @davebirkett.

http://www.freep.com/article/20121126/S ... 1049/rss14
Could we have seen the last of Backus?

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November 26th, 2012, 11:36 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
thelomasbrowns wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
A friend and I were talking about this new rule development and I had a thought. If throwing the challenge flag on an automatically reviewed play makes it unreviewable, wouldn't it make sense to throw the flag if your team scored or got a t.o. On a questionable play?


Take the bears game for example....they had a deflection that hit the ground but it appeared as if it was kicked to the db so it was called a pick and got a huge return...wouldn't it of been smart for lovie to challenge the spot of the ball? Challenging an auto replay makes it unreviewable doesn't it? That play doesn't get looked at again and the bears get a free t.o for the small price of 15 yards.

It's a huge reason that rule needs to be done with....unless I'm misunderstanding how that rule works.


It's only unreviewable if your team would benefit from the overturned call.


If the challenge is of the spot (which could benefit your team) and prevents the review itself, then how could it be determined that the review wouldnt help your team therefore the review should be allowed. Or are they admitting that they review the play anyways, and just dont apply the call they know should be overturned if it would benefit the penalized team?

Regardless. its amazing this retarded rule was put into place anyways. I understand what they wanted to prevent, but a 15 yd penalty would have been fine to prevent it from being a tool to use. Comboing the "refusal to review" on top of the penalty makes a situation that understandably could come up a few times this year (Throwing the flag on an auto-review play... remember those rules Just changed and previously those were the most challenged plays in the NFL (TDs/TOs) since its understandable somoene could forget in the heat of the moment, Now becomes the most damaging penalty in the NFL, even worse than a PI/NON PI on a 50yd pass in determining the outcome of a game. Way to go NFL, they can't even implement new rules without screwing someone over.

The Lions had 2 games given to the other team this year, and are 4-7. Without getting screwed vs Houston or Tennesee the Lions would be 6-5, even with as bad of mistakes as they have made this year.


November 26th, 2012, 2:56 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
DJ-B wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
A friend and I were talking about this new rule development and I had a thought. If throwing the challenge flag on an automatically reviewed play makes it unreviewable, wouldn't it make sense to throw the flag if your team scored or got a t.o. On a questionable play?


Take the bears game for example....they had a deflection that hit the ground but it appeared as if it was kicked to the db so it was called a pick and got a huge return...wouldn't it of been smart for lovie to challenge the spot of the ball? Challenging an auto replay makes it unreviewable doesn't it? That play doesn't get looked at again and the bears get a free t.o for the small price of 15 yards.

It's a huge reason that rule needs to be done with....unless I'm misunderstanding how that rule works.


It's only unreviewable if your team would benefit from the overturned call.


If the challenge is of the spot (which could benefit your team) and prevents the review itself, then how could it be determined that the review wouldnt help your team therefore the review should be allowed. Or are they admitting that they review the play anyways, and just dont apply the call they know should be overturned if it would benefit the penalized team?

Regardless. its amazing this retarded rule was put into place anyways. I understand what they wanted to prevent, but a 15 yd penalty would have been fine to prevent it from being a tool to use. Comboing the "refusal to review" on top of the penalty makes a situation that understandably could come up a few times this year (Throwing the flag on an auto-review play... remember those rules Just changed and previously those were the most challenged plays in the NFL (TDs/TOs) since its understandable somoene could forget in the heat of the moment, Now becomes the most damaging penalty in the NFL, even worse than a PI/NON PI on a 50yd pass in determining the outcome of a game. Way to go NFL, they can't even implement new rules without screwing someone over.

The Lions had 2 games given to the other team this year, and are 4-7. Without getting screwed vs Houston or Tennesee the Lions would be 6-5, even with as bad of mistakes as they have made this year.


But DJ, the bottom line is, it IS a rule, it's a rule for ALL the NFL teams, this rule cost the Colts too on a big play from a rookie HC, and NO OTHER TEAM (to the best of my knowledge), has had this rule cost them. Meaning, no other team has a HC DUMB ENOUGH to NOT follow the rule.

You can blame it on the refs all you want, but the bottom line is this team lacks the attention to detail, and discipline necessary to be successful in the NFL, period. Our execution sucks, our discipline sucks, our game management sucks, our timeout management sucks, our clock management sucks, our route running sucks, our run blocking sucks, our pass defense sucks, our lack of blitzing sucks, our offensive game plan sucks, our ability to alter our defensive game plan sucks, and anything to do with our special teams not named Jason Hansen sucks. That's all on the HC and Coordinators.


November 26th, 2012, 3:09 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
I Agree Schwartz over-reacted and shouldnt have thrown the flag but calls that bad are few and far between, and usually arent on such huge plays. Bad Rules are bad rules, and this 1 is bad enough they are considering changing it id-Season. that alone is an indictment that the NFL didnt really think it through and realized how bad it is.

Also, Atlanta made the same mistake a few weeks ago and it cost them a turnover. They won that game in the final minutes by a very slim margin, so a huge deal wasnt made of it.

Look at it this way.

1) Old Days - No Replay
2) Add Replay -
3) Notice how many calls are blown - See Opportunity to Improve Replay Use with Challenges
3) Institute Challenge Options - Primarily Targetting High Momentum plays (TDs, TOs, Spots on 3rd/4th Down) to make sure we "Get it right"
4) Realize there is a Minor loophole where a coach could use a challenge to delay the game
5) Institute a Poorly designed Patch to that loophole that Makes it 1 of the most damaging penalties possible during a game
6) Enhance Replay Value by Making all TDs and TOs auto-reviewed .. previously the Most commonly Challenged Plays

Is it really a suprise that 3 teams have already been cornholed by this terrible thought process that was just meant to "make sure we get it right, but without a loophole".


November 26th, 2012, 3:28 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
DJ-B wrote:
I Agree Schwartz over-reacted and shouldnt have thrown the flag but calls that bad are few and far between, and usually arent on such huge plays. Bad Rules are bad rules, and this 1 is bad enough they are considering changing it id-Season. that alone is an indictment that the NFL didnt really think it through and realized how bad it is.

Also, Atlanta made the same mistake a few weeks ago and it cost them a turnover. They won that game in the final minutes by a very slim margin, so a huge deal wasnt made of it.

Look at it this way.

1) Old Days - No Replay
2) Add Replay -
3) Notice how many calls are blown - See Opportunity to Improve Replay Use with Challenges
3) Institute Challenge Options - Primarily Targetting High Momentum plays (TDs, TOs, Spots on 3rd/4th Down) to make sure we "Get it right"
4) Realize there is a Minor loophole where a coach could use a challenge to delay the game
5) Institute a Poorly designed Patch to that loophole that Makes it 1 of the most damaging penalties possible during a game
6) Enhance Replay Value by Making all TDs and TOs auto-reviewed .. previously the Most commonly Challenged Plays

Is it really a suprise that 3 teams have already been cornholed by this terrible thought process that was just meant to "make sure we get it right, but without a loophole".


I'm sorry, I can't agree with #5, especially in light of #6. All Schwartz had to do was NOTHING to get the play reviewed. He's too damn stupid and emotional to do nothing, so he had to act like a jackass and chuck the red flag. His fault, not a problem with the rule.


November 26th, 2012, 3:30 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'm sorry, I can't agree with #5, especially in light of #6. All Schwartz had to do was NOTHING to get the play reviewed. He's too damn stupid and emotional to do nothing, so he had to act like a jackass and chuck the red flag. His fault, not a problem with the rule.
Not too mention, when this same type of thing happened last year during the 49er game and Harbaugh challenged an unchallengable call, Schwartz was seen saying 'Know the (*)*@# rules'.
Ah, gotta love the irony :lol: ](*,)

Oh...and apparently all head coaches are reminded of this rule prior to kickoff 8-[ ](*,)

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November 26th, 2012, 3:46 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
TheRealWags wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
I'm sorry, I can't agree with #5, especially in light of #6. All Schwartz had to do was NOTHING to get the play reviewed. He's too damn stupid and emotional to do nothing, so he had to act like a jackass and chuck the red flag. His fault, not a problem with the rule.
Not too mention, when this same type of thing happened last year during the 49er game and Harbaugh challenged an unchallengable call, Schwartz was seen saying 'Know the (*)*@# rules'.
Ah, gotta love the irony :lol: ](*,)

Oh...and apparently all head coaches are reminded of this rule prior to kickoff 8-[ ](*,)


Yea, there's a Youtube video of Schwartz yelling "know the f*#king rules" and the Niners fans blew it up with comments about what a jackass Schwartz is.

As much as we want to blame everyone else (which is part of the problem in Detroit... that's literally WHY we have this "woe is me" attitude and feel "entitled" to have these wins, and we literally ALLOW and ENABLE it to continue), the problem is right here in our house, period. Until we realize that, and until we're committed to fixing it, it will perpetuate. I don't think this team makes the playoffs again under Schwartz.


November 26th, 2012, 3:55 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Mike Smith made the same error a few weeks ago.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/18/mike-smith-wipes-out-review-by-throwing-red-flag/

It's definitely a boneheaded move--coaches have to know the rules--but Schwartz is definitely not the only coach to mistakenly challenge a play that would have been reviewed anyway. And other coaches (like Jim Harbaugh) have made the same mistake but were fortunate that the mistake didn't cost them a TD.

With all that said, the rule has got to change. If a coach tosses out the challenge flag on a play that will be reviewed anyway, what's the harm? Just pick up the flag on the way to the replay booth and hand it back to the coach. No harm done. I don't even think it warrants a penalty.

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November 26th, 2012, 4:08 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
mwill2 wrote:
Mike Smith made the same error a few weeks ago.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/18/mike-smith-wipes-out-review-by-throwing-red-flag/

It's definitely a boneheaded move--coaches have to know the rules--but Schwartz is definitely not the only coach to mistakenly challenge a play that would have been reviewed anyway. And other coaches (like Jim Harbaugh) have made the same mistake but were fortunate that the mistake didn't cost them a TD.

With all that said, the rule has got to change. If a coach tosses out the challenge flag on a play that will be reviewed anyway, what's the harm? Just pick up the flag on the way to the replay booth and hand it back to the coach. No harm done. I don't even think it warrants a penalty.


It's because coaches were tossing the flag and picking it back up, or using the review process to delay the game. That's why it's a rule in the first place. On plays where a runner is down by contact, or where the loss of forward momentum caused the play to be ruled dead, coaches were tossing the flag, asking if they could challenge the spot of the ball (when everyone knows you can't under those circumstances), just so their defense could get in a quick rest or they could get their personnel set. It's not right, and the rule precludes the practice.

You can say that it has no bearing on a TD play, but what if the other team wants to run a quick 2pnt conversion and catch the opposing team off-guard?


November 26th, 2012, 4:21 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
wjb21ndtown wrote:
He's too damn stupid and emotional


I think you are half right here WJB. From all accounts Schwartz is very intelligent, he is commonly described as such by those who have worked with him in the past. Now his "emotional intelligence" is another story... I've managed a lot of people who are very smart but their emotions get the best of them, that appears to be the case with our coach thus far.

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November 26th, 2012, 4:38 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Pablo wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
He's too damn stupid and emotional


I think you are half right here WJB. From all accounts Schwartz is very intelligent, he is commonly described as such by those who have worked with him in the past. Now his "emotional intelligence" is another story... I've managed a lot of people who are very smart but their emotions get the best of them, that appears to be the case with our coach thus far.


That's exactly what I'm talking about Pablo... What's worse is, I think he projects his immaturity or "emotional stupidity" on his players as well. IMO that's why Titus, Suh, Pett, etc. act the way they do. We blame everyone but ourselves for our mistakes, and that precludes us from getting better. After all, if it's the refs fault we lost, why do we need to work harder in practice? You can't "practice" enough to get the refs on your side. Until Schwartz and the majority of his malcontent co-horts get on the "it's my team, the reason we're losing is because of me" bandwagon, this team isn't going anywhere.

It's the difference between Doug Collins and Larry Brown... Schwartz is the former, we need the latter.


November 26th, 2012, 4:48 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Pablo wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
He's too damn stupid and emotional


I think you are half right here WJB. From all accounts Schwartz is very intelligent, he is commonly described as such by those who have worked with him in the past. Now his "emotional intelligence" is another story... I've managed a lot of people who are very smart but their emotions get the best of them, that appears to be the case with our coach thus far.


That's exactly what I'm talking about Pablo... What's worse is, I think he projects his immaturity or "emotional stupidity" on his players as well. IMO that's why Titus, Suh, Pett, etc. act the way they do. We blame everyone but ourselves for our mistakes, and that precludes us from getting better. After all, if it's the refs fault we lost, why do we need to work harder in practice? You can't "practice" enough to get the refs on your side. Until Schwartz and the majority of his malcontent co-horts get on the "it's my team, the reason we're losing is because of me" bandwagon, this team isn't going anywhere.

It's the difference between Doug Collins and Larry Brown... Schwartz is the former, we need the latter.

I agree, and I said it right after the whole thing went down, it's Schwartz's job to know the rules, so he blew it. As for firing him, I have to agree that our lack of improvement and lack of discipline is a big concern. I said a long time ago that I didn't think much was done to improve this team last off season, combine that with poor coaching it apprears we are back in line for a high draft pick. Any good receivers in this year's draft?

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November 26th, 2012, 5:39 pm
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