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 GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day) 
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Whats funny is I agree this is the Lions and Schwartz fault. However whether or not it is a terrible rule is a seperate discussion, and that is the point I was making.

Currently the Accidentally (or purposefully) throwing a Challenge flag on a play already being challenged has the potential to be the worst penalty in a game. Worse than penalties that include players being ejected for Intentional Violence. Worse then Launching yourself Helmet to helmet into a QB after the whistle. Worse than tackling a receiver 40yds downfield because you coudlnt keep up with him.

All for an act that because the 15yd penalty already makes it not worth doing intentionally is most likely an accident.

its moronic and they obviously never thought that part of the rule through, or they wouldnt be discussing changing it MID_SEASOn for the havoc it has caused in multiple games.

The Lions earned this loss, with or without the refs, but pretending that a very poor rule that left the refs no choice but to screw the Lions didnt have an impact on it requires either ignorance or feigned ignorance to illistrate your point. Your point is our Coaches should know better, and to that point I don't disagree at all.


November 26th, 2012, 6:23 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
DJ-B wrote:
Whats funny is I agree this is the Lions and Schwartz fault. However whether or not it is a terrible rule is a seperate discussion, and that is the point I was making.

Currently the Accidentally (or purposefully) throwing a Challenge flag on a play already being challenged has the potential to be the worst penalty in a game. Worse than penalties that include players being ejected for Intentional Violence. Worse then Launching yourself Helmet to helmet into a QB after the whistle. Worse than tackling a receiver 40yds downfield because you coudlnt keep up with him.

All for an act that because the 15yd penalty already makes it not worth doing intentionally is most likely an accident.

its moronic and they obviously never thought that part of the rule through, or they wouldnt be discussing changing it MID_SEASOn for the havoc it has caused in multiple games.

The Lions earned this loss, with or without the refs, but pretending that a very poor rule that left the refs no choice but to screw the Lions didnt have an impact on it requires either ignorance or feigned ignorance to illistrate your point. Your point is our Coaches should know better, and to that point I don't disagree at all.


No DJ-B, it's still just a 15 yard penalty. That's no different than saying a P.I. non-call, holding call, etc. can be worse than a game ejection, etc. Both can cost a TD.


November 26th, 2012, 6:27 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
wjb21ndtown wrote:
No DJ-B, it's still just a 15 yard penalty. That's no different than saying a P.I. non-call, holding call, etc. can be worse than a game ejection, etc. Both can cost a TD.


Those are judgment calls which it is impossible to be correct on 100% of time. This was a procedural call where you do have 100% control over what happened and can fix the rules to prevent this stupid issue from repeating (and it will be).

The Penalty is not a 15yd penalty. Its a 15 yd Penalty PLUS Refusal to Review (Or in reality Reviewing but Ignoring the outcome if it is in Challengers favor). It is essentially a Double-Penalty for what in all 3 cases where its been applied were an accident from a coach.

If it wasnt a bad rule and poorly set up, why would the league already be looking at it and considering changing it mid-season, right after it had a huge impact on a game.

Should there be a Penalty, YES. In my opinion 15 yds is still too much considering other than PI that is the largest penalty allotment in the game, on par with headhunting and other Personal fouls, but yes there needs to be a penalty to prevent the possibility of intentional delays.

However there is no reason to add a caveat that we should intentionally ignore that a BAD CALL was made in the 1st place by the field crew, and we have the technology to review it, IN FACT WE WERE GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY REVIEW IT BECAUSE GETTING IT RIGHT IS THAT IMPORTANT.... but Now we arent even though the entire country knows what happened, all because of an understandable accident that made little to no impact (in fact none because of part 1 of the Penalty negating any advantage).

Does this take the fault off the Lions/Schwartz... NO... But even the guys who enforced the rule realize it was stupid and wrong and want it changed ASAP... Are you seriously arguing with me because you think it should remain in place the way it is written? I know you are a smart guy, so I have to assume you see the absurdity of that argument, when even the guys who made the rule in the 1st place disagree with you.


November 26th, 2012, 6:37 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
DJ-B wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
No DJ-B, it's still just a 15 yard penalty. That's no different than saying a P.I. non-call, holding call, etc. can be worse than a game ejection, etc. Both can cost a TD.


Those are judgment calls which it is impossible to be correct on 100% of time. This was a procedural call where you do have 100% control over what happened and can fix the rules to prevent this stupid issue from repeating (and it will be).

The Penalty is not a 15yd penalty. Its a 15 yd Penalty PLUS Refusal to Review (Or in reality Reviewing but Ignoring the outcome if it is in Challengers favor). It is essentially a Double-Penalty for what in all 3 cases where its been applied were an accident from a coach.

If it wasnt a bad rule and poorly set up, why would the league already be looking at it and considering changing it mid-season, right after it had a huge impact on a game.

Should there be a Penalty, YES. In my opinion 15 yds is still too much considering other than PI that is the largest penalty allotment in the game, on par with headhunting and other Personal fouls, but yes there needs to be a penalty to prevent the possibility of intentional delays.

However there is no reason to add a caveat that we should intentionally ignore that a BAD CALL was made in the 1st place by the field crew, and we have the technology to review it, IN FACT WE WERE GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY REVIEW IT BECAUSE GETTING IT RIGHT IS THAT IMPORTANT.... but Now we arent even though the entire country knows what happened, all because of an understandable accident that made little to no impact (in fact none because of part 1 of the Penalty negating any advantage).

Does this take the fault off the Lions/Schwartz... NO... But even the guys who enforced the rule realize it was stupid and wrong and want it changed ASAP... Are you seriously arguing with me because you think it should remain in place the way it is written? I know you are a smart guy, so I have to assume you see the absurdity of that argument, when even the guys who made the rule in the 1st place disagree with you.


If they want to tweak the rule, I'm fine with it, but I don't think anyone is looking to do-away with the rule. The league is "looking into it" because of the fan outrage. It's not like they're independently saying "oh crap, we made a mistake." I think 15 yards is fair, assessed at the opposing teams discretion (for the extra point, or at kickoff, or possibly even after the kickoff). What's a 5 yard penalty going to do in that instance? Nothing...

Again, as stands I don't think it's a bad rule. All a coach has to do is be able to control himself for it to NEVER be in effect.


November 27th, 2012, 3:33 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
I've heard so many people judge Schwartz after this start, and I honestly think it's uncalled for.

Hypothetically, what record do you guys think we'd have if Bill Belichick was the head coach?

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November 27th, 2012, 4:05 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Shotty wrote:
I've heard so many people judge Schwartz after this start, and I honestly think it's uncalled for.

Hypothetically, what record do you guys think we'd have if Bill Belichick was the head coach?


Honestly, 8-3, and our team may look completely different were he our coach. We may not have Titus or Pett on this squad if Billicheck were our coach.


November 27th, 2012, 4:19 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
I've heard so many people judge Schwartz after this start, and I honestly think it's uncalled for.

Hypothetically, what record do you guys think we'd have if Bill Belichick was the head coach?


Honestly, 8-3, and our team may look completely different were he our coach. We may not have Titus or Pett on this squad if Billicheck were our coach.


Definitely true about Titus and Pett... Thinking logically, he's easily the best HC at pointing out little things game by game, ESPECIALLY against division rivals and 8-3 wouldn't be out of the question at all, maybe even 9-2.

Just to verify, you also don't think this team is going ANYWHERE with Schwartz as the HC?

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November 27th, 2012, 4:25 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
I've heard so many people judge Schwartz after this start, and I honestly think it's uncalled for.

Hypothetically, what record do you guys think we'd have if Bill Belichick was the head coach?


Honestly, 8-3, and our team may look completely different were he our coach. We may not have Titus or Pett on this squad if Billicheck were our coach.


Definitely true about Titus and Pett... Thinking logically, he's easily the best HC at pointing out little things game by game, ESPECIALLY against division rivals and 8-3 wouldn't be out of the question at all, maybe even 9-2.

Just to verify, you also don't think this team is going ANYWHERE with Schwartz as the HC?


Nope!, his personality, IMO, is the cause of the majority of our problems, Titus acting up, Pett not being accountible, CJ dogging it, Suh misbehaving, and Stafford not playing well all fall on his shoulders in my eyes. He encourages these guys to act like buffoons, and he enables them by sticking up for them, even in the face of unthinkable acts such as shoving refs or stomping/kicking people. He won't even make a soft statement against his players, he tries to be their "friend" first, and it's killing this team.

I don't think we ever make the playoffs again while Schwartz is our HC.


November 27th, 2012, 4:29 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
We won't get anywhere with Jim I agree. I consider anywhere as winning the SB, it's the only thing that matters. I think it's been proven you can take a horrible team and turn it around in a year now as many teams have done it recently. Getting to that next step is the hard part, and when you have the talent the Lions do and continue to make the same mistakes every year I think a change is needed.


Look at our roster and compare with other good teams, we are not far off and im some areas superiour to most teams. We just need disciplined coaching.


November 27th, 2012, 4:54 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
hamma77 wrote:
We won't get anywhere with Jim I agree. I consider anywhere as winning the SB, it's the only thing that matters. I think it's been proven you can take a horrible team and turn it around in a year now as many teams have done it recently. Getting to that next step is the hard part, and when you have the talent the Lions do and continue to make the same mistakes every year I think a change is needed.


Look at our roster and compare with other good teams, we are not far off and im some areas superiour to most teams. We just need disciplined coaching.


Great point. Miami went 1-15 in 08, 11-5 in 09 with a new hc, and became irrelevant since. They easily went from awful to good, but didn't have the coaching staff to take the most important step. We need a Jeff Fisher, BB,Andy Reid, Mike Tomlinson, Jon Harbaugh type coach to get the team under total control and focused on football and not buffoonery on and off the field.

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November 27th, 2012, 5:54 pm
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Shotty wrote:
hamma77 wrote:
We won't get anywhere with Jim I agree. I consider anywhere as winning the SB, it's the only thing that matters. I think it's been proven you can take a horrible team and turn it around in a year now as many teams have done it recently. Getting to that next step is the hard part, and when you have the talent the Lions do and continue to make the same mistakes every year I think a change is needed.


Look at our roster and compare with other good teams, we are not far off and im some areas superiour to most teams. We just need disciplined coaching.


Great point. Miami went 1-15 in 08, 11-5 in 09 with a new hc, and became irrelevant since. They easily went from awful to good, but didn't have the coaching staff to take the most important step. We need a Jeff Fisher, BB,Andy Reid, Mike Tomlinson, Jon Harbaugh type coach to get the team under total control and focused on football and not buffoonery on and off the field.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but there is something I want to point out here. Of the coaches you mentioned, only BB and Tomlin (Tomlinson is a player) have ever won it all. The others you mentioned are all good coaches who haven't been able to get their teams to the championship level. They might be an improvement over what we have now (not Reid though. I don't like him at all), but I don't think they are the type of coach you want.

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November 28th, 2012, 1:58 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Schwartz has made his fair share of mistakes but no coach is perfect. Give him 5-6 years to see how he grows. BB wasn't a coaching genius off the bat with Cleveland. It took years for Cowher to win and the same for Landry. I think part of the lions problem has been stability. I think for the most part their draft picks have been good. They have made some mistakes but who hasn't. Belicheck has made a ton of bad draft choices but he gets passes. The only coaches that may be available that I'd want over Schwartz are Peyton and Cowher. If you can't get them stay the course. @wjb you said that a team may want to hurry on a 2pt conversion. The scoring team has to let the defense get their personnel in. You can't have a surprise 2pt unless its a fake fg.


November 28th, 2012, 3:05 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
Let move the coach discuss here: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16343&p=226357#p226357

Thx

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November 28th, 2012, 9:08 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
So frustrating because with one more play (or one less play in the case of the bogus TD run), we beat the best team in the AFC and one of the best in the NFL. We can play with any team but just can't seem to make plays when it counts.

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November 28th, 2012, 10:55 am
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Post Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions vs. Texans (Thanksgiving Day)
thelomasbrowns wrote:
So frustrating because with one more play (or one less play in the case of the bogus TD run), we beat the best team in the AFC and one of the best in the NFL. We can play with any team but just can't seem to make plays when it counts.


That's what lack of discipline and emotional control does to team. There's 11 guys out there, and four guys on the sidelines that really matter. All it takes is one of them to not be part of the bigger picture and it all falls apart.


November 28th, 2012, 5:04 pm
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