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 2013 Offseason Plan 
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
Ok, so lets say the draft happens tomorrow. Luke Joeckel is the top rated OT. Philly picks one spot ahead of us. I have a very hard time believing they pass on him. Does anyone really believe we should go offense STILL in this scenario?

If Joeckel is there and we take him to be our LT, fine. Im ok with that. But if hes not there, it has GOT to be defense unless we trade down. And even at that point, would we want another "next tier" OT? Thats what we did last year and people are complaining about it.

So again, at this point, if its Joeckel then fine. If not, its GOTTA be defense or trade down and OG.

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December 26th, 2012, 5:17 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
kdsberman wrote:
Ok, so lets say the draft happens tomorrow. Luke Joeckel is the top rated OT. Philly picks one spot ahead of us. I have a very hard time believing they pass on him. Does anyone really believe we should go offense STILL in this scenario?

If Joeckel is there and we take him to be our LT, fine. Im ok with that. But if hes not there, it has GOT to be defense unless we trade down. And even at that point, would we want another "next tier" OT? Thats what we did last year and people are complaining about it.

So again, at this point, if its Joeckel then fine. If not, its GOTTA be defense or trade down and OG.


This is how I see it. This is probably where Schwartz and Mayhew have the top guys in their BPA list, not judging by what scheme they'd fit best in:

1. Luke Joeckel
2. Bjoern Werner
3. Jarvis Jones
4. Manti T'eo
5. Damontre Moore
6. Star Lotulelei
7. Dee Milliner

I think it'll go like this:

KC: Geno
Jax: Werner
Oakland: Dee Milliner
Philly: Luke Joeckel
Lions: Star (top DT, maybe throw Suh & Fairley at ends and allow release of Avril and KVB, build a 3-4 from there), Damontre Moore (IMO easily the best 3-4 OLB/DE), T'eo (mystery, could be a diamond in the rough), or trade down.

That's simply based on RAW talent. IMO, it's Joeckel, MAYBE T'eo, or a trade-down. Milliner just doesn't have that ability of those top 5 worthy CBs (C-Woodson, for example). He hasn't done enough, but that can change depending on how he plays in the BCS game.

My pick? Try trading Philly our 3rd round pick and next year's 3rd for their spot to grab Joeckel. He's really, really good.

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December 26th, 2012, 5:56 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
Shotty wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Ok, so lets say the draft happens tomorrow. Luke Joeckel is the top rated OT. Philly picks one spot ahead of us. I have a very hard time believing they pass on him. Does anyone really believe we should go offense STILL in this scenario?

If Joeckel is there and we take him to be our LT, fine. Im ok with that. But if hes not there, it has GOT to be defense unless we trade down. And even at that point, would we want another "next tier" OT? Thats what we did last year and people are complaining about it.

So again, at this point, if its Joeckel then fine. If not, its GOTTA be defense or trade down and OG.


This is how I see it. This is probably where Schwartz and Mayhew have the top guys in their BPA list, not judging by what scheme they'd fit best in:

1. Luke Joeckel
2. Bjoern Werner
3. Jarvis Jones
4. Manti T'eo
5. Damontre Moore
6. Star Lotulelei
7. Dee Milliner

I think it'll go like this:

KC: Geno
Jax: Werner
Oakland: Dee Milliner
Philly: Luke Joeckel
Lions: Star (top DT, maybe throw Suh & Fairley at ends and allow release of Avril and KVB, build a 3-4 from there), Damontre Moore (IMO easily the best 3-4 OLB/DE), T'eo (mystery, could be a diamond in the rough), or trade down.

That's simply based on RAW talent. IMO, it's Joeckel, MAYBE T'eo, or a trade-down. Milliner just doesn't have that ability of those top 5 worthy CBs (C-Woodson, for example). He hasn't done enough, but that can change depending on how he plays in the BCS game.

My pick? Try trading Philly our 3rd round pick and next year's 3rd for their spot to grab Joeckel. He's really, really good.


It's tough to say what Oakland will do, but I really don't think they reach for Milliner that bad. Their DL is old as dirt, they allowed 4.5 yp carry, and the most points per game in the NFL. Not to mention that Richard Seymore is 33 years old. I think they'd take Star over Milliner.

FWIW, no way in hell Phili makes that trade...

If the draft works out this way I'd prefer dropping back to around 7 or so and taking who's left of Warner, T'eo, Milliner, or maybe drop back to 15 and take Eric Reid?


December 26th, 2012, 6:17 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
philly needs a QB. no way they pass on one that early in the draft.

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December 26th, 2012, 6:20 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
regularjoe12 wrote:
philly needs a QB. no way they pass on one that early in the draft.


IMO Phili isn't taking the 2nd best Qb at #4 overall, I can't see them taking Matt Barkley that high. Maybe his stock rises after the combine or something, but IMO it'd be a pretty big reach, and their OL still sucks.


December 26th, 2012, 6:53 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
Shotty wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Ok, so lets say the draft happens tomorrow. Luke Joeckel is the top rated OT. Philly picks one spot ahead of us. I have a very hard time believing they pass on him. Does anyone really believe we should go offense STILL in this scenario?

If Joeckel is there and we take him to be our LT, fine. Im ok with that. But if hes not there, it has GOT to be defense unless we trade down. And even at that point, would we want another "next tier" OT? Thats what we did last year and people are complaining about it.

So again, at this point, if its Joeckel then fine. If not, its GOTTA be defense or trade down and OG.


This is how I see it. This is probably where Schwartz and Mayhew have the top guys in their BPA list, not judging by what scheme they'd fit best in:

1. Luke Joeckel
2. Bjoern Werner
3. Jarvis Jones
4. Manti T'eo
5. Damontre Moore
6. Star Lotulelei
7. Dee Milliner

I think it'll go like this:

KC: Geno
Jax: Werner
Oakland: Dee Milliner
Philly: Luke Joeckel
Lions: Star (top DT, maybe throw Suh & Fairley at ends and allow release of Avril and KVB, build a 3-4 from there), Damontre Moore (IMO easily the best 3-4 OLB/DE), T'eo (mystery, could be a diamond in the rough), or trade down.

That's simply based on RAW talent. IMO, it's Joeckel, MAYBE T'eo, or a trade-down. Milliner just doesn't have that ability of those top 5 worthy CBs (C-Woodson, for example). He hasn't done enough, but that can change depending on how he plays in the BCS game.

My pick? Try trading Philly our 3rd round pick and next year's 3rd for their spot to grab Joeckel. He's really, really good.


Oakland wouldnt pass on Star.

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December 26th, 2012, 6:56 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
philly needs a QB. no way they pass on one that early in the draft.


IMO Phili isn't taking the 2nd best Qb at #4 overall, I can't see them taking Matt Barkley that high. Maybe his stock rises after the combine or something, but IMO it'd be a pretty big reach, and their OL still sucks.


common sense says your right, but when it comes to QB's and teams in DIRE need of one, they'll take what they can get. the only way I see them passing on a QB is if they get one in free agency. (And if they get a quality QB in free agency....well..then shame on Arizona!)

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December 26th, 2012, 6:57 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
philly needs a QB. no way they pass on one that early in the draft.


IMO Phili isn't taking the 2nd best Qb at #4 overall, I can't see them taking Matt Barkley that high. Maybe his stock rises after the combine or something, but IMO it'd be a pretty big reach, and their OL still sucks.


common sense says your right, but when it comes to QB's and teams in DIRE need of one, they'll take what they can get. the only way I see them passing on a QB is if they get one in free agency. (And if they get a quality QB in free agency....well..then shame on Arizona!)


Well, I don't know if he would be willing, but rather than cutting Vick they could always ask him to restructure. I don't see them paying him the $15 million he's due in salary next year, but if he's willing to take a more reasonable number, with new staff and a better OL they may be able to do something in Phili.

Without an OL you're sunk, period. I think most teams know that.


December 26th, 2012, 7:40 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
philly needs a QB. no way they pass on one that early in the draft.


IMO Phili isn't taking the 2nd best Qb at #4 overall, I can't see them taking Matt Barkley that high. Maybe his stock rises after the combine or something, but IMO it'd be a pretty big reach, and their OL still sucks.


i agree with you. it probably depends on a couple of things. No 1 - who will be the Philly coach next year. Philly may only go for a coach that is willing to work with Nick Foles on developing him into a starter. No 2 - what is the status of Jason Peters. Big man is coming off an achilles tear but he was an exceptional athlete at LT prior to the injury, so even if there is a dropoff he may very well still be a solid player.

on the other hand, i think barkley is better than what people are giving him credit for. he s got an idiot for a head coach and he s flashed talent since day 1 at USC. still his stock seems to be in that late 1st/early 2nd range so No 4 at this point doesnt seem likely but we all know things change as the draft approaches especially with the QBs.


December 27th, 2012, 9:07 am
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
I think Philly takes Joeckel hands down. They have Peters who is coming off injury and Demetress Bell who has been terrible since joining their team. They can get a QB in the second or third and they may go with Foles.

In that scenario, I'd like to see us trade down a few spots and nab Milliner. He may not be in the Patrick Peterson class, but he's better than anything we have.


December 27th, 2012, 5:36 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
It really does seem like every year we screw ourselves just bad enough to miss out on "the guy." I mean, sure we got Suh and CJ years where we got "no brainer picks," but every other year (except last year maybe, but then we dropped the ball with the draft pick) we're just a couple spots away from the guy that we "really need."

If the draft goes that way and Luke is in fact gone (remember though, Phili has been known to blow some "no brainer" picks), I'd prefer a trade down too. I'd like to see us get into the 7-9 range, or even further down to the 9-15 range. At 7-9 I'd target Warner/T'eo, further down I'd go Milliner/Reid.

That said, I'd strongly consider trading UP with Oakland. You can't trade up with Phili, they want the same guy we do, but Oakland's player will likely be there after Phili picks regardless. We NEED a solid LT, and Luke looks like a franchise type player that you can build your team and your OL around.

I'm not sold on Taylor Lewan being the player that some make him out to be. Sure the Mich line didn't give up that many sacks, but most of our "passing plays" still hold the ability to take off on the ground.

I know you guys think we need more bodies (and thus picks), but the bottom line is we need more talent, and we're going to have a talent loss/void when Backus leaves. He was only marginally effective last year, and he got hurt, he's not going to get any better. Our offense sputtered and struggled with the OL that we had out there last year, take arguably the best OLman off of that line and replace him with a 2nd round rookie, Reif who's struggled in pass blocking, or a mediocre FA, and IMO our offense will look putrid.


December 27th, 2012, 6:15 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
I dont think there s just "one guy" in the draft that could help the Lions. Sure Joeckel is a great player but I wouldnt discount Lewan. He s extremely light on his feet for a LT, one of the elite athletes in the draft. Moves much better than Joeckel. He s not as strong probably but his feet let you do some nice things with him moving around the pocket, reaching ends to seal the edge and getting upfield. Whoever gets Lewan is getting a stud who in some ways is better than Joeckel.


December 27th, 2012, 9:58 pm
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
The Legend wrote:
I dont think there s just "one guy" in the draft that could help the Lions. Sure Joeckel is a great player but I wouldnt discount Lewan. He s extremely light on his feet for a LT, one of the elite athletes in the draft. Moves much better than Joeckel. He s not as strong probably but his feet let you do some nice things with him moving around the pocket, reaching ends to seal the edge and getting upfield. Whoever gets Lewan is getting a stud who in some ways is better than Joeckel.


It just scares me that the UofM line has struggled, they play an unconventional style of play, and they're #s are going to be inflated because of their style of play. Would Lewand's stock be as high if UofM's line didn't give up 15 sacks, and instead gave up 30 sacks? That's what scares me. It's just tough to evaluate talent when you're comparing apples to oranges (different styles of play, seeing what an apple is going to do when he's playing like an orange).

On top of that, no Senior Bowl for Lewand to evaluate in a different scheme against top competition, and I see Lewand more as a "developmental player." I think he'll be a bit like Joe Staley, who took, IMO, took 3 years to be a really good LT. He was better his second season, but struggled his first. He's a stud LT now, but do we have three years to give the guy? I guess it's better than relying on Reif, that I don't see ever being a LT, and a guy that I think should anchor our strong side, but I'm not sold that it's the best move for the team (again, three years down the road, I agree, but we have a LOT going on that's going to be huge in the next three years).


December 28th, 2012, 12:04 am
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
wjb21ndtown wrote:
The Legend wrote:
I dont think there s just "one guy" in the draft that could help the Lions. Sure Joeckel is a great player but I wouldnt discount Lewan. He s extremely light on his feet for a LT, one of the elite athletes in the draft. Moves much better than Joeckel. He s not as strong probably but his feet let you do some nice things with him moving around the pocket, reaching ends to seal the edge and getting upfield. Whoever gets Lewan is getting a stud who in some ways is better than Joeckel.


It just scares me that the UofM line has struggled, they play an unconventional style of play, and they're #s are going to be inflated because of their style of play. Would Lewand's stock be as high if UofM's line didn't give up 15 sacks, and instead gave up 30 sacks? That's what scares me. It's just tough to evaluate talent when you're comparing apples to oranges (different styles of play, seeing what an apple is going to do when he's playing like an orange).

On top of that, no Senior Bowl for Lewand to evaluate in a different scheme against top competition, and I see Lewand more as a "developmental player." I think he'll be a bit like Joe Staley, who took, IMO, took 3 years to be a really good LT. He was better his second season, but struggled his first. He's a stud LT now, but do we have three years to give the guy? I guess it's better than relying on Reif, that I don't see ever being a LT, and a guy that I think should anchor our strong side, but I'm not sold that it's the best move for the team (again, three years down the road, I agree, but we have a LOT going on that's going to be huge in the next three years).


Lewan's going to get more of a test than the Senior Bowl could provide when he goes up against South Carolina's Clowney in the bowl game. Clowney is probably already better than 50% of the NFLs DEs and will be a top 5 pick when he comes out in the 2014 draft.


December 28th, 2012, 9:57 am
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Post Re: 2013 Offseason Plan
wjb21ndtown wrote:
If the draft goes that way and Luke is in fact gone (remember though, Phili has been known to blow some "no brainer" picks), I'd prefer a trade down too. I'd like to see us get into the 7-9 range, or even further down to the 9-15 range. At 7-9 I'd target Warner/T'eo, further down I'd go Milliner/Reid.


Wait a second. You fried me for suggesting this team trades down, now you want to?

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December 28th, 2012, 3:11 pm
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