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 Off-Season Moves 
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Modmin Dude
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Post Off-Season Moves
Freep wrote:
Lions signed Ashlee Palmer, Don Carey to contract extensions
January 3, 2013
By Dave Birkett

The Detroit Lions worked out contract extensions with two defensive players before the end of the regular season, keeping linebacker Ashlee Palmer and safety Don Carey off the market.

Palmer, a backup linebacker and one of the Lions’ best special-teams players, signed a two-year extension with base salaries of $1 million for 2013 and $1.25 million for 2014.

He started two games, wins over the Seattle Seahawks and Jacksonville Jaguars when DeAndre Levy was out with a pulled hamstring, led the Lions with 14 special-teams tackles and was named to Pro Football Focus’ all-pro team on special teams.

Carey, who signed through 2013, started six of the last seven games at safety with Louis Delmas (knee) and Amari Spievey (concussion) bothered by injuries.

He had two interceptions in a loss to the Indianapolis Colts, and should at least be a backup safety and special-teams contributor next year with both Delmas (unrestricted) and Spievey (restricted) headed for free agency.

Lions general manager Martin Mayhew said Spievey was cleared to return to physical activity when he met with a neurologist on Monday.

The Lions still have 23 players who’ll be unrestricted free agents in what should be a busy March.

Unrestricted (23) -- Cliff Avril, Gosder Cherilus, Louis Delmas, Justin Durant, Drayton Florence, Andre Fluellen, Dylan Gandy, Jason Hanson, Nick Harris, Jerome Harrison, Will Heller, Sammie Hill, Corey Hilliard, Chris Houston, Lawrence Jackson, Jacob Lacey, Pat Lee, DeAndre Levy, Stefan Logan, Don Muhlbach, Kassim Osgood, Ashlee Palmer, Kevin Smith, Corey Williams

Restricted (3) – Jason Fox, Amari Spievey, Willie Young

Exclusive rights (4) – Joique Bell, Shaun Chapas, Kris Durham, Ricardo Silva

http://www.freep.com/article/20130103/S ... it%20Lions

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January 3rd, 2013, 9:18 am
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
Could we please FT Avril and trade him now... I'm so done with that whole saga.


January 3rd, 2013, 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
Should have done that last year, but for some reason the staff and a lot of fans even though that has no bearing saw him as irreplaceable. There were enough DE hungry teams that were in better cap position than Detroit that at best would have probably given up a late 1st and probably no worse than a couple of 2nd rounders.


January 3rd, 2013, 4:10 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
sweetd20 wrote:
Should have done that last year, but for some reason the staff and a lot of fans even though that has no bearing saw him as irreplaceable. There were enough DE hungry teams that were in better cap position than Detroit that at best would have probably given up a late 1st and probably no worse than a couple of 2nd rounders.


I agree completely. The Jags would have loved an opportunity to trade a 2nd round pick for him last year, and we could have done wonders with his freed up cap space in FA.

Some say that Javid Best was Mayhew's biggest blunder last off-season, I contend that Avril's blunder was far, far worse.


January 3rd, 2013, 4:12 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Could we please FT Avril and trade him now... I'm so done with that whole saga.


Mayhew said he probably wont tag anyone.

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January 3rd, 2013, 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Could we please FT Avril and trade him now... I'm so done with that whole saga.


Mayhew said he probably wont tag anyone.


That's retarded... That's like saying you have a wild card in your hand, but you're going to play it straight. It's like saying I have a coordless drill in my tool bag, but I'm going to rock it out with this garbage screwdriver. The FT is nothing more than a tool for GMs to allow them to keep their good players from walking. Not using the FT means Avril will probably be gone, and we will get nothing for him (unless we do the unthinkable and grossly over-pay for him).


January 3rd, 2013, 4:30 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Could we please FT Avril and trade him now... I'm so done with that whole saga.


Mayhew said he probably wont tag anyone.


That's retarded... That's like saying you have a wild card in your hand, but you're going to play it straight. It's like saying I have a coordless drill in my tool bag, but I'm going to rock it out with this garbage screwdriver. The FT is nothing more than a tool for GMs to allow them to keep their good players from walking. Not using the FT means Avril will probably be gone, and we will get nothing for him (unless we do the unthinkable and grossly over-pay for him).


Hey im just telling you what I read. I agree that its dumb not to use it, but still.

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January 3rd, 2013, 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
Can they even afford to FT Avril again? Since he was tagged already doesn't the cap number jump super high to tag him again?

Probably be a good idea to just tag Delmas and if they can't work out something reasonable considering his injury history then just float him out there for anything they can get. Delmas probably still has some value even with his injuries.


January 3rd, 2013, 9:41 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
rao wrote:
Can they even afford to FT Avril again? Since he was tagged already doesn't the cap number jump super high to tag him again?

Probably be a good idea to just tag Delmas and if they can't work out something reasonable considering his injury history then just float him out there for anything they can get. Delmas probably still has some value even with his injuries.


And FTing Delmas would be cheaper too. Not sure what the franchise number is for safeties next year.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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January 3rd, 2013, 9:44 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
kdsberman wrote:
rao wrote:
Can they even afford to FT Avril again? Since he was tagged already doesn't the cap number jump super high to tag him again?

Probably be a good idea to just tag Delmas and if they can't work out something reasonable considering his injury history then just float him out there for anything they can get. Delmas probably still has some value even with his injuries.


And FTing Delmas would be cheaper too. Not sure what the franchise number is for safeties next year.


I think it was around 6 mil for safeties maybe 6.5. I don't think it could be more than that.


January 3rd, 2013, 9:56 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
rao wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
rao wrote:
Can they even afford to FT Avril again? Since he was tagged already doesn't the cap number jump super high to tag him again?

Probably be a good idea to just tag Delmas and if they can't work out something reasonable considering his injury history then just float him out there for anything they can get. Delmas probably still has some value even with his injuries.


And FTing Delmas would be cheaper too. Not sure what the franchise number is for safeties next year.


I think it was around 6 mil for safeties maybe 6.5. I don't think it could be more than that.


If we tag Delmas I'll go freaking BANANAS!!!

Delmas is no where near worth top 5 safety money. You could legitimately consider it with Avril, and at least Avril has SHOWN talent. Delmas has shown flashes of POTENTIAL, but he has never been consistent, he can't cover to save his hide, and he frequently takes poor angles and gets beat deep. At least Avril has proven to be a legitimate starting caliber DE that can stay healthy.

IMO we should tag and trade Avril ASAP. I don't care what we get for him, and he should be in on the plan. We should tell him upfront, look, we're trying to get you a long term deal, but we don't want to let you walk without getting any compensation for you. I don't care if it's a 3rd to 5th rounder (I really think he's worth about a second rounder), we should tag and trade him.


January 4th, 2013, 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
Hey Im not supporting the idea of tagging Delmas, i was just saying he would be cheaper.

I would be all for tagging and trading Avril, but the Lions already said they arent going to use the franchise tag. Again, not supporting it, just stating the facts.

Unfortunately, I see the Lions letting Avril walk, therefore getting NOTHING out of the deal.

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January 4th, 2013, 2:40 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
kdsberman wrote:
Hey Im not supporting the idea of tagging Delmas, i was just saying he would be cheaper.

I would be all for tagging and trading Avril, but the Lions already said they arent going to use the franchise tag. Again, not supporting it, just stating the facts.

Unfortunately, I see the Lions letting Avril walk, therefore getting NOTHING out of the deal.



I'm not shooting the messenger, I'm just pointing out facts too! :arrow: :idea:

I see us doing worse... I see us actually signing that bum for $12 million per year, and really screwing us. I'd much rather have Jake Long for a reasonable salary and draft a DE than over-pay Avril.


January 4th, 2013, 2:45 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Hey Im not supporting the idea of tagging Delmas, i was just saying he would be cheaper.

I would be all for tagging and trading Avril, but the Lions already said they arent going to use the franchise tag. Again, not supporting it, just stating the facts.

Unfortunately, I see the Lions letting Avril walk, therefore getting NOTHING out of the deal.



I'm not shooting the messenger, I'm just pointing out facts too! :arrow: :idea:

I see us doing worse... I see us actually signing that bum for $12 million per year, and really screwing us. I'd much rather have Jake Long for a reasonable salary and draft a DE than over-pay Avril.


i think if you tag Avril than Avril can sign the franchise tender and you may be stuck with him at $12 million. More likely Mayhew is going to offer him something in that same $8-10 million range - hopefully on the lower end of that. If he doesnt take it he ll go somewhere else for about that same price range. I expect KVB to be gone, Willie Young to get a 1 year deal as a RFA, LoJack to get a 1-2 year deal. If Avril walks them most definitely that 1st round pick will be used for a DE, if not then there may be some more flexibility with the pick but DE would still remain a need.

Im thinking that if Avril is re-signed then neither Levy or Durant will be back. Whitehead or T.Lewis would have to win one of those spots and perhaps Ashlee Palmer would be a backup plan at the other spot. Maybe R. Lewis will fit in the DE or OLB picture somewhere also.

In the secondary I think they will bring back both Don Carey and Spievey. Spievey wont be expensive since he s a RFA. Delmas will probably easily sign for something less than the franchise tag on a 1 year deal with incentives for staying healthy. That would leave one spot for a starter. Chris Houston needs to be resigned. Im not particularly concerned with bringing back any of the Florence, Lacey, Bartell veteran group if Bentley, Green, Greenwood are all healthy but there needs to be an addition to that group as well. If Eric Wright gets cut by Tampa Bay maybe he could be acquired cheap although the off the field stuff doesnt look good but a player similar to Wright that is at least starter quality is needed at corner.


January 4th, 2013, 3:45 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
I think two of the key moves will be to not resign Avril (or tag him and trade him which does not seem likely) and resigning Stafford to a long term deal and spreading out his cap hit. There are other cap issues (KVB and Nate but I do not believe there is much savings there due to them already being reworked). As for the UFAs I think their future with the team will be based as much on ability as reaonability with their salary demands.
Avril- Already said I do not think he is more than a speed edge rushere who does not defend the run very well at the point. It seems to make sense to use the 1st round pick to replace him which will save cap space (new rookie structure more friendly for high picks) and should net a more complete player at the DE position. With as much attention as Suh and Fairley, which causes the DEs to be singled all the time, the DEs should thrive with the talent inside. I think drafting a DE here to replace Avril will make the whole defense better.
Cherilus- Here is a guy who depending on what he believes he is worth might be worth retaining. After his microfracture surgery he stayed healthy and played adequately. I believe the future of Backus and the teams' grading of Fox (and his ability to stay healthy) play a significant role in the Lions interest in Cherilus. If Backus stays then Reif can just start at RT and you can let Cherilus go. If Backus stays another year and Fox is graded higher then Cherilus is let go. The only real senerio where he stays is if Backus is let go and the Lions grade on Cherilus is higher than Fox. In the end I believe they will let him walk and play either Fox or Reif at RT next year.
Delmas- Whether he stays or leaves I believe that the 2nd or 3rd round pick (depending on value) needs to be a safety with playmaking ability. I would prefer that he resigns with the team, for a reasonable salary, and is paired with a talented rookie. He takes some terrible angles at times but does have playmaking ability and is a leader on the field. If he can be paired with a talented safety I think it will make him better and the defense stronger.
Durant and Levy-I do not believe that both will be back next year and it may be that they are both let go. I did not notice much of a drop off when Palmer started a few games which I think says more about the lack of play making ability of Durant and Levy than it says for Palmer's prowess. It may be necessary to resign one of them (reasonably), let Palmer or Whitehead start on the other side and address this in 2014.
Houston-If possible (I have not looked at the available FAs) here is where the defense can get solidified. With a playmaking DE and safety added through the draft already and the cap savings from Avril and Stafford's new deal I think they need to make every effort to sign a legit #1 CB in FA. I know that FA is not the best way to build a team, however they have a plus #2 CB in Houston and enough with some of the younger players to fill nickel and dime roles but need a playmaker at CB.

As for the other UFAs: Give Hanson some competition and go with him if he can still perform. Resign Heller for depth and he knows the system. Try to resign Sammie Hill (I do not think he is an every down DT but he is very good in the rotation) but he has talent, is young and some team will probably overpay for him. Resign Hilliard for depth and he knows the system. Jackso see Hilliard and Heller. Resign Osgood he is an outstanding ST player. Kevin Smith can be productive in a certain role but if there is a RB with more ST ability then let him walk. Williams has value as a rotation DT but his pay needs to be adjusted for a reduced role.

As for the RFA I believe that they should all be retained as they all have potential and may still have some upside. Fox may start at RT in 2014 after Backus leaves and Reif is at LT. I may be in the minority but I believe that Spievey has the abilities to be a playmaker at safety. He takes some bad angles (can be fixed) but has good range and ball skills so he is a valuable reserve if Delmas is the starter. Young is a good rotation guy but not a starter.

Exclusive rights guys: Bell deserves a roster spot after his play last year. Silva should be invited to camp and could be a good back-up safety/ST player.

With these moves I think it adds at least 3 playmakers to the defense to go with Suh, Fairly, Tulloch, Delmas and Houston. There could be another addition if and OLB can be found in rounds 4-7. This improves the pressure, ball skills, speed and general play making ability of the defense. Offensively they need a back to replace Best which should be the 2nd or 3rd pick, whichever is not the safety pick. The line will unfortunately only have minor changes (RT) which should be fine for pass pro but still will not open holes in the run game. Leshore may be an effective option even behind this line if they run more of a cutback scheme where he can read and make one cut. The real question mark to me will be the receivers other than Calvin. I would bring Burleson back, he may not be a game changer but he still has RAC skills. I liked what I saw from Broyles but how effective will he be next year after surgery? Young is a knucklehead but he should be given another chance. He has ability and no matter what we think that is king in the NFL. If he comes back and is the same then cut him and move on but at some point you figure he will mature.


January 4th, 2013, 4:16 pm
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