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 Biggest Need next year? 
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
Long would be nice but as important as a good LT is I think tthe idea of needing a premier guy is overrated. What's more important is having good balance along the O-line and a good O-line coach. There have been a lot of recent Super Bowl champs that have done so with good to really good LTs not the top 5 $$$ earners. I think Reiff can get the job done with a better G next to him, the same thing went for Backus and I was never a fan of him. Backus may have never been great but he was good enough if they could have put a G with at least equal talent next to him. Sims has been good and Backus has looked good with being injured and old, it also helps at Stafford has a quick release. But as far as a LT goes I think thats behind one if not two Gs and maybe even a C.


The issue is, we need a true starting caliber LT, and Long may be the only one available if Jockel is gone. And remember, cutting Backus saves us $3 mill. Take Longs cap # for this year and minus it by $3 mill, cause that's what we'd be saving with his replacement.

That said, it's also more likely that we get a premier pass rusher out of the first round than a premier LT.

When you're factoring in what level of LT we "need" or should have, you also have to consider how many pass attempts we make every year. A premier LT isn't as important in Baltimore.


We have so many pass attmepts because we are always behind and playing catch up.

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January 4th, 2013, 9:14 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
Long would be nice but as important as a good LT is I think tthe idea of needing a premier guy is overrated. What's more important is having good balance along the O-line and a good O-line coach. There have been a lot of recent Super Bowl champs that have done so with good to really good LTs not the top 5 $$$ earners. I think Reiff can get the job done with a better G next to him, the same thing went for Backus and I was never a fan of him. Backus may have never been great but he was good enough if they could have put a G with at least equal talent next to him. Sims has been good and Backus has looked good with being injured and old, it also helps at Stafford has a quick release. But as far as a LT goes I think thats behind one if not two Gs and maybe even a C.


The issue is, we need a true starting caliber LT, and Long may be the only one available if Jockel is gone. And remember, cutting Backus saves us $3 mill. Take Longs cap # for this year and minus it by $3 mill, cause that's what we'd be saving with his replacement.

That said, it's also more likely that we get a premier pass rusher out of the first round than a premier LT.

When you're factoring in what level of LT we "need" or should have, you also have to consider how many pass attempts we make every year. A premier LT isn't as important in Baltimore.


We have so many pass attmepts because we are always behind and playing catch up.


Why do we have so many 3 and outs? Why can't we pick up a yard on 3rd and 1? Why can't we pick up 2 on a 3rd and 2? Why can't we run the ball with any consistency when we need first downs to close a 1/2 or to close out a game without giving the opposition's offense a chance to step on the field?


January 4th, 2013, 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
Long would be nice but as important as a good LT is I think tthe idea of needing a premier guy is overrated. What's more important is having good balance along the O-line and a good O-line coach. There have been a lot of recent Super Bowl champs that have done so with good to really good LTs not the top 5 $$$ earners. I think Reiff can get the job done with a better G next to him, the same thing went for Backus and I was never a fan of him. Backus may have never been great but he was good enough if they could have put a G with at least equal talent next to him. Sims has been good and Backus has looked good with being injured and old, it also helps at Stafford has a quick release. But as far as a LT goes I think thats behind one if not two Gs and maybe even a C.


The issue is, we need a true starting caliber LT, and Long may be the only one available if Jockel is gone. And remember, cutting Backus saves us $3 mill. Take Longs cap # for this year and minus it by $3 mill, cause that's what we'd be saving with his replacement.

That said, it's also more likely that we get a premier pass rusher out of the first round than a premier LT.

When you're factoring in what level of LT we "need" or should have, you also have to consider how many pass attempts we make every year. A premier LT isn't as important in Baltimore.


We have so many pass attmepts because we are always behind and playing catch up.


Why do we have so many 3 and outs? Why can't we pick up a yard on 3rd and 1? Why can't we pick up 2 on a 3rd and 2? Why can't we run the ball with any consistency when we need first downs to close a 1/2 or to close out a game without giving the opposition's offense a chance to step on the field?


Thats a good question, and none of us know the answer. Is it Linehan? Poor interior O-line play? Stafford? Thats been a topic of debate since the first quarter of the season. Me? I think its a combination of it all. But saying that drafting a LT will solve it all is kinda crazy IMO. But as im typing this im watching Luke Joeckel and he is taking every person he goes against right out of the play. He looks very good.

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January 4th, 2013, 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
Long would be nice but as important as a good LT is I think tthe idea of needing a premier guy is overrated. What's more important is having good balance along the O-line and a good O-line coach. There have been a lot of recent Super Bowl champs that have done so with good to really good LTs not the top 5 $$$ earners. I think Reiff can get the job done with a better G next to him, the same thing went for Backus and I was never a fan of him. Backus may have never been great but he was good enough if they could have put a G with at least equal talent next to him. Sims has been good and Backus has looked good with being injured and old, it also helps at Stafford has a quick release. But as far as a LT goes I think thats behind one if not two Gs and maybe even a C.


The issue is, we need a true starting caliber LT, and Long may be the only one available if Jockel is gone. And remember, cutting Backus saves us $3 mill. Take Longs cap # for this year and minus it by $3 mill, cause that's what we'd be saving with his replacement.

That said, it's also more likely that we get a premier pass rusher out of the first round than a premier LT.

When you're factoring in what level of LT we "need" or should have, you also have to consider how many pass attempts we make every year. A premier LT isn't as important in Baltimore.


We have so many pass attmepts because we are always behind and playing catch up.


And why are we always playing catch up? Oh yeah! Our defense can't stop anyone. Not even the local powder puff team.


January 4th, 2013, 9:56 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
Long would be nice but as important as a good LT is I think tthe idea of needing a premier guy is overrated. What's more important is having good balance along the O-line and a good O-line coach. There have been a lot of recent Super Bowl champs that have done so with good to really good LTs not the top 5 $$$ earners. I think Reiff can get the job done with a better G next to him, the same thing went for Backus and I was never a fan of him. Backus may have never been great but he was good enough if they could have put a G with at least equal talent next to him. Sims has been good and Backus has looked good with being injured and old, it also helps at Stafford has a quick release. But as far as a LT goes I think thats behind one if not two Gs and maybe even a C.


The issue is, we need a true starting caliber LT, and Long may be the only one available if Jockel is gone. And remember, cutting Backus saves us $3 mill. Take Longs cap # for this year and minus it by $3 mill, cause that's what we'd be saving with his replacement.

That said, it's also more likely that we get a premier pass rusher out of the first round than a premier LT.

When you're factoring in what level of LT we "need" or should have, you also have to consider how many pass attempts we make every year. A premier LT isn't as important in Baltimore.


We have so many pass attmepts because we are always behind and playing catch up.


Why do we have so many 3 and outs? Why can't we pick up a yard on 3rd and 1? Why can't we pick up 2 on a 3rd and 2? Why can't we run the ball with any consistency when we need first downs to close a 1/2 or to close out a game without giving the opposition's offense a chance to step on the field?


Maybe, the pressure of having to score every time we get the ball is causing it. Our defense can't stop anyone. So, the offense feels the pressure to score every time and it wears them down.


January 4th, 2013, 9:59 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
Long would be nice but as important as a good LT is I think tthe idea of needing a premier guy is overrated. What's more important is having good balance along the O-line and a good O-line coach. There have been a lot of recent Super Bowl champs that have done so with good to really good LTs not the top 5 $$$ earners. I think Reiff can get the job done with a better G next to him, the same thing went for Backus and I was never a fan of him. Backus may have never been great but he was good enough if they could have put a G with at least equal talent next to him. Sims has been good and Backus has looked good with being injured and old, it also helps at Stafford has a quick release. But as far as a LT goes I think thats behind one if not two Gs and maybe even a C.


The issue is, we need a true starting caliber LT, and Long may be the only one available if Jockel is gone. And remember, cutting Backus saves us $3 mill. Take Longs cap # for this year and minus it by $3 mill, cause that's what we'd be saving with his replacement.

That said, it's also more likely that we get a premier pass rusher out of the first round than a premier LT.

When you're factoring in what level of LT we "need" or should have, you also have to consider how many pass attempts we make every year. A premier LT isn't as important in Baltimore.


We have so many pass attmepts because we are always behind and playing catch up.


Why do we have so many 3 and outs? Why can't we pick up a yard on 3rd and 1? Why can't we pick up 2 on a 3rd and 2? Why can't we run the ball with any consistency when we need first downs to close a 1/2 or to close out a game without giving the opposition's offense a chance to step on the field?


Maybe, the pressure of having to score every time we get the ball is causing it. Our defense can't stop anyone. So, the offense feels the pressure to score every time and it wears them down.


I 100% agree, and it seems pretty simple to me. This defense needs fixed. Do we need some upgrades on offense? Yes. But this defense is a wreck.

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January 4th, 2013, 10:02 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
If the evaluation is that Joeckel (sp?) really is Joe Thomas all over again I really don't have an issue if Mayhew picks him. If he isnt, don't go there just because you need another tackle. BPA still works here since the Lions have multiple holes. At #5 you need a player that impacts the game. That means not a WR, maybe not a G or C either. You can't reach for need, especially that high. If those DEs are not the real thing, pick the OT or the CB. If there is a real safety or CB there, take that over anything else. If it is a LB, go for it and fill that hole. Do the work, and get the best guy to improve the team right now.

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January 4th, 2013, 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
The biggest need is absolutely the offensive line. With the Lions potentially giving Stafford a contract rivaling the elite passers of the game, we have to truly account for his importance to the team, and build around his skillset. Stafford gets erratic under pressure. We rarely see the much talked about sidearm throws when hes not running for his life looking for a play. When he has a clean pocket, he makes the right choice, and he justifies his status much more often than not. Luke Joeckel is the obvious pick if hes there at 5, but all 4 teams ahead of us in the draft could certainly use a LT, but given Staffords importance to the team, Id lean Taylor Lewan over the quality pass rushers at #5 too just based on where the Lions are, and the positive impact he can make. Jeff Backus is at the end of the road, so it would be a good move to make. The Lions havent drafted an interior lineman since prior to Mayhew being GM, we have to be mindful of that as well.


January 5th, 2013, 6:30 am
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
jrd66 wrote:
If the evaluation is that Joeckel (sp?) really is Joe Thomas all over again I really don't have an issue if Mayhew picks him. If he isnt, don't go there just because you need another tackle. BPA still works here since the Lions have multiple holes. At #5 you need a player that impacts the game. That means not a WR, maybe not a G or C either. You can't reach for need, especially that high. If those DEs are not the real thing, pick the OT or the CB. If there is a real safety or CB there, take that over anything else. If it is a LB, go for it and fill that hole. Do the work, and get the best guy to improve the team right now.



Agree!


January 5th, 2013, 11:31 am
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
dh86 wrote:
The biggest need is absolutely the offensive line. With the Lions potentially giving Stafford a contract rivaling the elite passers of the game, we have to truly account for his importance to the team, and build around his skillset. Stafford gets erratic under pressure. We rarely see the much talked about sidearm throws when hes not running for his life looking for a play. When he has a clean pocket, he makes the right choice, and he justifies his status much more often than not. Luke Joeckel is the obvious pick if hes there at 5, but all 4 teams ahead of us in the draft could certainly use a LT, but given Staffords importance to the team, Id lean Taylor Lewan over the quality pass rushers at #5 too just based on where the Lions are, and the positive impact he can make. Jeff Backus is at the end of the road, so it would be a good move to make. The Lions havent drafted an interior lineman since prior to Mayhew being GM, we have to be mindful of that as well.



Agree that Stafford is the franchise and needs to be protected at all costs. But if the Lions take Lewan at 5, I'll know that Mayhew isn't any better at drafting than his predecessor.


January 5th, 2013, 11:37 am
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
liontrax wrote:
dh86 wrote:
The biggest need is absolutely the offensive line. With the Lions potentially giving Stafford a contract rivaling the elite passers of the game, we have to truly account for his importance to the team, and build around his skillset. Stafford gets erratic under pressure. We rarely see the much talked about sidearm throws when hes not running for his life looking for a play. When he has a clean pocket, he makes the right choice, and he justifies his status much more often than not. Luke Joeckel is the obvious pick if hes there at 5, but all 4 teams ahead of us in the draft could certainly use a LT, but given Staffords importance to the team, Id lean Taylor Lewan over the quality pass rushers at #5 too just based on where the Lions are, and the positive impact he can make. Jeff Backus is at the end of the road, so it would be a good move to make. The Lions havent drafted an interior lineman since prior to Mayhew being GM, we have to be mindful of that as well.



Agree that Stafford is the franchise and needs to be protected at all costs. But if the Lions take Lewan at 5, I'll know that Mayhew isn't any better at drafting than his predecessor.

Agree with this.

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January 5th, 2013, 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
kdsberman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
dh86 wrote:
The biggest need is absolutely the offensive line. With the Lions potentially giving Stafford a contract rivaling the elite passers of the game, we have to truly account for his importance to the team, and build around his skillset. Stafford gets erratic under pressure. We rarely see the much talked about sidearm throws when hes not running for his life looking for a play. When he has a clean pocket, he makes the right choice, and he justifies his status much more often than not. Luke Joeckel is the obvious pick if hes there at 5, but all 4 teams ahead of us in the draft could certainly use a LT, but given Staffords importance to the team, Id lean Taylor Lewan over the quality pass rushers at #5 too just based on where the Lions are, and the positive impact he can make. Jeff Backus is at the end of the road, so it would be a good move to make. The Lions havent drafted an interior lineman since prior to Mayhew being GM, we have to be mindful of that as well.



Agree that Stafford is the franchise and needs to be protected at all costs. But if the Lions take Lewan at 5, I'll know that Mayhew isn't any better at drafting than his predecessor.

Agree with this.


C'mon... That's short-sighted and harsh.

I could agree that if they take Lewan AND he fails (Lewan hasn't even declared yet, I don't think) THEN we know that he isn't any better at drafting than his predecessor, but you have to at least give his prospects a chance.

That said, I'm really anxious to see what sort of deal Jake Long gets, and if we're a player at all in landing him via FA. I really don't think we will be, given Mayhew's comments about "only having enough money to keep our own FAs," but it would be nice to land a FA or two to plug some holes prior to the draft.


January 5th, 2013, 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
liontrax wrote:
dh86 wrote:
The biggest need is absolutely the offensive line. With the Lions potentially giving Stafford a contract rivaling the elite passers of the game, we have to truly account for his importance to the team, and build around his skillset. Stafford gets erratic under pressure. We rarely see the much talked about sidearm throws when hes not running for his life looking for a play. When he has a clean pocket, he makes the right choice, and he justifies his status much more often than not. Luke Joeckel is the obvious pick if hes there at 5, but all 4 teams ahead of us in the draft could certainly use a LT, but given Staffords importance to the team, Id lean Taylor Lewan over the quality pass rushers at #5 too just based on where the Lions are, and the positive impact he can make. Jeff Backus is at the end of the road, so it would be a good move to make. The Lions havent drafted an interior lineman since prior to Mayhew being GM, we have to be mindful of that as well.



Agree that Stafford is the franchise and needs to be protected at all costs. But if the Lions take Lewan at 5, I'll know that Mayhew isn't any better at drafting than his predecessor.

Agree with this.


C'mon... That's short-sighted and harsh.

I could agree that if they take Lewan AND he fails (Lewan hasn't even declared yet, I don't think) THEN we know that he isn't any better at drafting than his predecessor, but you have to at least give his prospects a chance.

That said, I'm really anxious to see what sort of deal Jake Long gets, and if we're a player at all in landing him via FA. I really don't think we will be, given Mayhew's comments about "only having enough money to keep our own FAs," but it would be nice to land a FA or two to plug some holes prior to the draft.


Drop those overpaid guys (including Avril), grab Jake Long, grab the best 4-3 DE in the draft, HEAVILY pursue Jairus Byrd/maybe Goldson to put at FS and Delmas at SS, we're a 10-6 or better team, can run the ball more efficiently, can give our CBs some freedom with a ballhawk lurking around, and still have leftover money for more good players.

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January 5th, 2013, 4:56 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
And you don't think long or Byrd will be overpaid? ha! Long looked terrible this year and is going to be very overpaid. He looked like a crusty shell of his former self. I'm not saying he's bad, but he was far from top 5 and that's where he wants to be paid. If Miami (who has a load of cap space won't pay him what he wants, that obviously says something.

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January 5th, 2013, 5:28 pm
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Post Re: Biggest Need next year?
conversion02 wrote:
And you don't think long or Byrd will be overpaid? ha! Long looked terrible this year and is going to be very overpaid. He looked like a crusty shell of his former self. I'm not saying he's bad, but he was far from top 5 and that's where he wants to be paid. If Miami (who has a load of cap space won't pay him what he wants, that obviously says something.


I think Byrd would take a contract like 4 years, $28-32 million. A bit over the top, but he's an amazing cover safety, easily the best right now. I think Long will rebound, he wasn't picked #1 overall for no reason. If he's worked out and doesn't look good, then we'll probably pursue that guard from Buffalo.

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January 5th, 2013, 5:35 pm
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