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 Evidence was clear cut 
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Post Evidence was clear cut
Lions need to play it safe in NFL draft, says ex-NFL GM Gil Brandt

NEW ORLEANS – Better to be safe than sorry, at least when it comes to this year’s draft.

That’s the approach NFL.com analyst Gil Brandt said he’d take this off-season if he were the Lions trying to return to the playoffs after a disastrous 4-12 season.

“I think you probably have to be safer,” Brandt said today at the Super Bowl. “When a team is really good and you can afford to gamble a little bit then you can take Titus Young. But if you’re a team that’s trying to get better then you better not take Titus Young.”

The Lions have hit on most of their high draft picks during the Martin Mayhew-Jim Schwartz era, finding success with quarterback Matthew Stafford (No. 1 overall in 2009) and defensive tackles Ndamukong Suh (No. 2 in 2010) and Nick Fairley (No. 13 in 2011).

But Brandt, the former long-time vice president of player personnel for the Dallas Cowboys, said draft picks like Young and Jahvid Best have set the Lions’ rebuilding process back.

In need of a running back to diversify their offense in 2010, the Lions traded up into the first round to draft Best 30th overall even though some teams had him off their draft boards because of concussions.

A year later, the Lions spent a second-round pick on Young, who was suspended for most of a season at Boise State.

Best hasn’t played since October of 2011 and might never see the field again, Young was sent home from the team three times in a seven-month span this season for a variety discipline problems, and the Lions still have needs at running back and receiver.

“It’s easy to second guess, but Titus Young hurt them a lot,” Brandt said. “And then Best, with the concussions, there was some question about him coming in. I think they drafted guys with a lot of potential, but with Best it was a medical thing and the other guy it was always a character thing at Boise State.”


Publicly, the Lions have left the door open for Young to return, though a fresh start appears to be in the best interests of both parties. As for trading Young, Brandt said the receiver has soiled whatever value he had left.

“I think that there’s an old saying, sometimes you take your first loss, it’s your best loss,” Brandt said. “But you’re not going to be able to trade him, no.

“Everybody’s got too many connections now with teams so they call, whether it’s (San Francisco 49ers general manager) Trent Baalke as an example, he knows a couple players on the Lions and they call and say tell me about this guy. And I guess if you put him through the ringer, there wouldn’t be too many people in his favor.”

An once again we did the same thing with Ryan Broyles, take him coming off a Torn ACL and he's right back were he started. Unfortunately, it's a different knee but still was a gamble for a 2nd Rd pick with glaring other needs.

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January 29th, 2013, 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
None of this is really "news," it's just a restatement of widely held opinions. Most on this board feel the same way.


January 29th, 2013, 1:42 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
Stop comparing Broyles to the Best and Young picks. He was not even remotely as high risk as the other two. He would have been a 1st/2nd rounder if he had come out after his Junior year and was a leading reciever in CFB right before his injury. He had no other major injuries in college unlike Best who was injured a lot and an ACL is not consider as serious as it once was. I think they reached for him without a doubt since he's not a WR2 and is really just built to be a slot guy in the NFL, but he needs to stop being clumped in with the two guys that were obvious risks from the very start. Broyles is a result of a different problem with the Lions drafting which is overvaluing guys that could be gotten later in the draft and that's probably a scouting issue. The other probl;em with the Broyles pick was Mayhew thinking he was able to have the luxury of having him sit out most the year, Mayhew's lack of vision to see the weaknesses on the roster really made the pick stand out. If Broyles had been picked up by a team that actually could have sat him and had used FA to fill their glaring needs then he would be looked at as a potential home run.


January 29th, 2013, 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
rao wrote:
Stop comparing Broyles to the Best and Young picks. He was not even remotely as high risk as the other two. He would have been a 1st/2nd rounder if he had come out after his Junior year and was a leading reciever in CFB right before his injury. He had no other major injuries in college unlike Best who was injured a lot and an ACL is not consider as serious as it once was. I think they reached for him without a doubt since he's not a WR2 and is really just built to be a slot guy in the NFL, but he needs to stop being clumped in with the two guys that were obvious risks from the very start. Broyles is a result of a different problem with the Lions drafting which is overvaluing guys that could be gotten later in the draft and that's probably a scouting issue. The other probl;em with the Broyles pick was Mayhew thinking he was able to have the luxury of having him sit out most the year, Mayhew's lack of vision to see the weaknesses on the roster really made the pick stand out. If Broyles had been picked up by a team that actually could have sat him and had used FA to fill their glaring needs then he would be looked at as a potential home run.


He would have been a high 1st/2nd round pick PRIOR to his injury concerns, AFTER his injury concerns he was the same as the Best pick, flat out, and he's proven to be of that mould. Broyles couldn't stay healthy in an 11 game college season, and he's proven to not be able to stay healthy in a 16 game NFL season. He, like best, was taken 1 to 2 complete ROUNDS ahead of where he should have been taken.

You can't claim that Mayhew was "thinking Broyles could sit out a year," and also claim that we drafted Broyles because Mayhew "knew Titus was a problem." That's a claim that many on here want to make, and it is likely accurate, but it definitely implies that Broyles would be playing in 2012.

Broyles was a reach and with his major ACL injury (you can claim it's no longer an issue in the NFL, but that's not necessarily true, especially for WRs) he was definitely a "risky" pick that should have been passed on in the 2nd round, ESPECIALLY with guys like Kontz sitting there.


January 29th, 2013, 2:45 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Stop comparing Broyles to the Best and Young picks. He was not even remotely as high risk as the other two. He would have been a 1st/2nd rounder if he had come out after his Junior year and was a leading reciever in CFB right before his injury. He had no other major injuries in college unlike Best who was injured a lot and an ACL is not consider as serious as it once was. I think they reached for him without a doubt since he's not a WR2 and is really just built to be a slot guy in the NFL, but he needs to stop being clumped in with the two guys that were obvious risks from the very start. Broyles is a result of a different problem with the Lions drafting which is overvaluing guys that could be gotten later in the draft and that's probably a scouting issue. The other probl;em with the Broyles pick was Mayhew thinking he was able to have the luxury of having him sit out most the year, Mayhew's lack of vision to see the weaknesses on the roster really made the pick stand out. If Broyles had been picked up by a team that actually could have sat him and had used FA to fill their glaring needs then he would be looked at as a potential home run.


He would have been a high 1st/2nd round pick PRIOR to his injury concerns, AFTER his injury concerns he was the same as the Best pick, flat out, and he's proven to be of that mould. Broyles couldn't stay healthy in an 11 game college season, and he's proven to not be able to stay healthy in a 16 game NFL season. He, like best, was taken 1 to 2 complete ROUNDS ahead of where he should have been taken.

You can't claim that Mayhew was "thinking Broyles could sit out a year," and also claim that we drafted Broyles because Mayhew "knew Titus was a problem." That's a claim that many on here want to make, and it is likely accurate, but it definitely implies that Broyles would be playing in 2012.

Broyles was a reach and with his major ACL injury (you can claim it's no longer an issue in the NFL, but that's not necessarily true, especially for WRs) he was definitely a "risky" pick that should have been passed on in the 2nd round, ESPECIALLY with guys like Kontz sitting there.


I agree completely, wasn't Janoris Jenkins (even though, he was a character risk) still on the board?

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January 29th, 2013, 3:12 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
wjb21ndtown wrote:
None of this is really "news," it's just a restatement of widely held opinions. Most on this board feel the same way.


Yea, I wasn't aware until reading this article that Titus Young was suspended half the season at Boise St, so I wanted to bring some light to it. In that draft alone, it was one big risk. Because if I recall Fairley was taken 1st Rd in that draft and he fell to us because teams steered clear of Character issues with him. Yikes!!

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January 29th, 2013, 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Stop comparing Broyles to the Best and Young picks. He was not even remotely as high risk as the other two. He would have been a 1st/2nd rounder if he had come out after his Junior year and was a leading reciever in CFB right before his injury. He had no other major injuries in college unlike Best who was injured a lot and an ACL is not consider as serious as it once was. I think they reached for him without a doubt since he's not a WR2 and is really just built to be a slot guy in the NFL, but he needs to stop being clumped in with the two guys that were obvious risks from the very start. Broyles is a result of a different problem with the Lions drafting which is overvaluing guys that could be gotten later in the draft and that's probably a scouting issue. The other probl;em with the Broyles pick was Mayhew thinking he was able to have the luxury of having him sit out most the year, Mayhew's lack of vision to see the weaknesses on the roster really made the pick stand out. If Broyles had been picked up by a team that actually could have sat him and had used FA to fill their glaring needs then he would be looked at as a potential home run.


He would have been a high 1st/2nd round pick PRIOR to his injury concerns, AFTER his injury concerns he was the same as the Best pick, flat out, and he's proven to be of that mould. Broyles couldn't stay healthy in an 11 game college season, and he's proven to not be able to stay healthy in a 16 game NFL season. He, like best, was taken 1 to 2 complete ROUNDS ahead of where he should have been taken.

You can't claim that Mayhew was "thinking Broyles could sit out a year," and also claim that we drafted Broyles because Mayhew "knew Titus was a problem." That's a claim that many on here want to make, and it is likely accurate, but it definitely implies that Broyles would be playing in 2012.

Broyles was a reach and with his major ACL injury (you can claim it's no longer an issue in the NFL, but that's not necessarily true, especially for WRs) he was definitely a "risky" pick that should have been passed on in the 2nd round, ESPECIALLY with guys like Kontz sitting there.


Broyles stayed healthy for 3 previous college seasons. One injury to your knee does not make you an injury risk. There was obviously a risk he may not be the same player he was in college, but there wasn't a big risk he would be injured again given his lack of previous injuries and his ACL came from contact that caused him to land awkwardly instead of from non-contact. He isn't even remotely comparable to Best that had a long list of nagging injuries his entire college career and then multiple concussions right before being drafted into a league focusing on concussions.

After looking at all the recent things with TY I don't think Broyles was brought in to replace TY, I think he was brought in to compliment him and CJ. IMO the coaching staff is so head strong they thought they could control TY and they lost that battle.

My argument isn't that Broyles wasn't a bad pick, my argument is that the TY and Best picks were so monumentally asinine and so likely to fail they make the Broyles pick look downright conservative. Those picks were just so bad you can't group Broyles in with them.


January 29th, 2013, 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
If you want to say TY and Best had a risk factor of 7-10, and Broyles had a risk factor of 4-6, I'd agree with that, but an ACL injury is still a huge injury, and even though players can now "come back" after them, they seem to be plagued by them even after their return. I don't think Broyles was "as risky" as the other two, but he still was far from a safe pick.

To answer the above Q... I think Jenkins was off of the board, but Trumaine Johnson (a player that M2 and I both advocated for) was available, and is a capable starter at CB and likely FS too, given his size, along with the revered Peter Kontz.


January 29th, 2013, 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
Jenkins was off the board with the 33 or 34th pick (top 2 in 2nd rd) so wasnt technically an option where we picked.


January 29th, 2013, 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Stop comparing Broyles to the Best and Young picks. He was not even remotely as high risk as the other two. He would have been a 1st/2nd rounder if he had come out after his Junior year and was a leading reciever in CFB right before his injury. He had no other major injuries in college unlike Best who was injured a lot and an ACL is not consider as serious as it once was. I think they reached for him without a doubt since he's not a WR2 and is really just built to be a slot guy in the NFL, but he needs to stop being clumped in with the two guys that were obvious risks from the very start. Broyles is a result of a different problem with the Lions drafting which is overvaluing guys that could be gotten later in the draft and that's probably a scouting issue. The other probl;em with the Broyles pick was Mayhew thinking he was able to have the luxury of having him sit out most the year, Mayhew's lack of vision to see the weaknesses on the roster really made the pick stand out. If Broyles had been picked up by a team that actually could have sat him and had used FA to fill their glaring needs then he would be looked at as a potential home run.


He would have been a high 1st/2nd round pick PRIOR to his injury concerns, AFTER his injury concerns he was the same as the Best pick, flat out, and he's proven to be of that mould. Broyles couldn't stay healthy in an 11 game college season, and he's proven to not be able to stay healthy in a 16 game NFL season. He, like best, was taken 1 to 2 complete ROUNDS ahead of where he should have been taken.

You can't claim that Mayhew was "thinking Broyles could sit out a year," and also claim that we drafted Broyles because Mayhew "knew Titus was a problem." That's a claim that many on here want to make, and it is likely accurate, but it definitely implies that Broyles would be playing in 2012.

Broyles was a reach and with his major ACL injury (you can claim it's no longer an issue in the NFL, but that's not necessarily true, especially for WRs) he was definitely a "risky" pick that should have been passed on in the 2nd round, ESPECIALLY with guys like Kontz sitting there.



Agree completely, your statement " Broyles was a reach " is almost an understatement. He had a 3rd to 4th round grade prior to the draft. All this hindsight does is cement whats obvious to most of us. Mayhew doesn't know how to draft! Pretty scary thought considering he still has final say so on who we draft.


January 29th, 2013, 5:42 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
DJ-B wrote:
Jenkins was off the board with the 33 or 34th pick (top 2 in 2nd rd) so wasnt technically an option where we picked.


Oh, ok. Thought he was at the top of the 3rd Rd not 2nd and was too lazy to search it out.

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January 29th, 2013, 6:39 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
liontrax wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Stop comparing Broyles to the Best and Young picks. He was not even remotely as high risk as the other two. He would have been a 1st/2nd rounder if he had come out after his Junior year and was a leading reciever in CFB right before his injury. He had no other major injuries in college unlike Best who was injured a lot and an ACL is not consider as serious as it once was. I think they reached for him without a doubt since he's not a WR2 and is really just built to be a slot guy in the NFL, but he needs to stop being clumped in with the two guys that were obvious risks from the very start. Broyles is a result of a different problem with the Lions drafting which is overvaluing guys that could be gotten later in the draft and that's probably a scouting issue. The other probl;em with the Broyles pick was Mayhew thinking he was able to have the luxury of having him sit out most the year, Mayhew's lack of vision to see the weaknesses on the roster really made the pick stand out. If Broyles had been picked up by a team that actually could have sat him and had used FA to fill their glaring needs then he would be looked at as a potential home run.


He would have been a high 1st/2nd round pick PRIOR to his injury concerns, AFTER his injury concerns he was the same as the Best pick, flat out, and he's proven to be of that mould. Broyles couldn't stay healthy in an 11 game college season, and he's proven to not be able to stay healthy in a 16 game NFL season. He, like best, was taken 1 to 2 complete ROUNDS ahead of where he should have been taken.

You can't claim that Mayhew was "thinking Broyles could sit out a year," and also claim that we drafted Broyles because Mayhew "knew Titus was a problem." That's a claim that many on here want to make, and it is likely accurate, but it definitely implies that Broyles would be playing in 2012.

Broyles was a reach and with his major ACL injury (you can claim it's no longer an issue in the NFL, but that's not necessarily true, especially for WRs) he was definitely a "risky" pick that should have been passed on in the 2nd round, ESPECIALLY with guys like Kontz sitting there.



Agree completely, your statement " Broyles was a reach " is almost an understatement. He had a 3rd to 4th round grade prior to the draft. All this hindsight does is cement whats obvious to most of us. Mayhew doesn't know how to draft! Pretty scary thought considering he still has final say so on who we draft.


Thank you, he was a reach. We didn't have that luxury taking him in the 2nd with other pressing positions needing to be addressed, even with TY acting like a jackass. I feel like Mayhem lost in Vegas and he went back in, chasing his bet with house money.

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January 29th, 2013, 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
That sucks because Titus Young was drafted in a draft that was WR-heavy, if I remember correctly. Several WRs were taken after Young who are now stars, or close to it, on their new team. I remember this because the 49ers selected Ronald Johnson (who?) and I wasn't happy about it.

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January 29th, 2013, 10:34 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
49ers wrote:
That sucks because Titus Young was drafted in a draft that was WR-heavy, if I remember correctly. Several WRs were taken after Young who are now stars, or close to it, on their new team. I remember this because the 49ers selected Ronald Johnson (who?) and I wasn't happy about it.


Smith and Cobb were both taken within 20 picks or so after we drafted TY.


January 29th, 2013, 10:39 pm
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Post Re: Evidence was clear cut
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Smith and Cobb were both taken within 20 picks or so after we drafted TY.

oh TORREY Smith, lol. So many Smiths, I had to look that up. No idea why this didn't strike me earlier when I read it.

Good WRs and RBs can be found in later rounds. O-line and D-line are harder to find. I'm thinking the Lions might have to take an unflashy pick with their first one.

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January 31st, 2013, 9:35 pm
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