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 Lions Pick Fifth 
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
jrd66 wrote:
The prime positions seem to be QB, OT, CB and DE these days. They get overvalued and hence overdrafted. I don't much care anymore about value at pick #5 vs value at say pick #9. If the CB is your guy, pick him. If he can play like you (the team) think, he won't last 5 more spots.


I agree with you there. If anyone has a top 10 value, or even a top 15 value, it means they can play ball at their respective position. We need playmakers, as long as they deserve the designation, we shouldn't care if it's a "value" within about 5 spots or so. If it does go beyond that, we should look to trade down, however.

That said, I do think we should look at Fisher over Millner. Millner seems very average, but I do admit that he does play smart, and is great at "finding the ball." That said, his actual cover skills seem somewhat lacking. He really took advantage of the lack of speed at the college level, and I'm not convinced he won't get burned


January 28th, 2013, 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
wjb21ndtown wrote:
jrd66 wrote:
The prime positions seem to be QB, OT, CB and DE these days. They get overvalued and hence overdrafted. I don't much care anymore about value at pick #5 vs value at say pick #9. If the CB is your guy, pick him. If he can play like you (the team) think, he won't last 5 more spots.


I agree with you there. If anyone has a top 10 value, or even a top 15 value, it means they can play ball at their respective position. We need playmakers, as long as they deserve the designation, we shouldn't care if it's a "value" within about 5 spots or so. If it does go beyond that, we should look to trade down, however.

That said, I do think we should look at Fisher over Millner. Millner seems very average, but I do admit that he does play smart, and is great at "finding the ball." That said, his actual cover skills seem somewhat lacking. He really took advantage of the lack of speed at the college level, and I'm not convinced he won't get burned


I agree with the bold.

This would be the part where I once again voice my support for drafting Bjoern Werner (Which i think we should), but Im really starting to believe he wont be there at 5, especially with Jacksonville in such a need of a DE. If he is gone, I see no player worth the #5 spot besides Joeckel, who i can guarantee wont be there. So i think our best option would be to trade down to around 10. That leaves us with SEVERAL options there.

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January 28th, 2013, 10:48 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
I am thrilled to go into a draft completely relaxed and ready to enjoy the ride, for once. I am looking at this draft and our draft position. And I'm seeing multiple possibilities on all levels, and all fronts. I simply don't think we could screw this draft up if we still had Millen as GM.

You want an OLT? There are 2 to chose from if Philly passes on 1.
You want a DE? We might have our pick of 2 really good ones.
You want a LB? There are a couple of them to chose from.
You want OG? #5 might be a little high for the position, But, there is pro Bowl Guard there for the taking.
You want CB? There are 3 worthy of the pick.

And despite the early downgrading of this years QB's, I still expect 2 of them to go in the top 5 picks. That's just what QB desperate teams will do. So, trading down a few spots is most certainly an option.

I see no possible way for Mayhew, or anyone else to screw up this wet dream.


January 28th, 2013, 11:10 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
BillySims wrote:
I am thrilled to go into a draft completely relaxed and ready to enjoy the ride, for once. I am looking at this draft and our draft position. And I'm seeing multiple possibilities on all levels, and all fronts. I simply don't think we could screw this draft up if we still had Millen as GM.

You want an OLT? There are 2 to chose from if Philly passes on 1.
You want a DE? We might have our pick of 2 really good ones.
You want a LB? There are a couple of them to chose from.
You want OG? #5 might be a little high for the position, But, there is pro Bowl Guard there for the taking.
You want CB? There are 3 worthy of the pick.

And despite the early downgrading of this years QB's, I still expect 2 of them to go in the top 5 picks. That's just what QB desperate teams will do. So, trading down a few spots is most certainly an option.

I see no possible way for Mayhew, or anyone else to screw up this wet dream.



Sorry Billy, but I don't see 3 corners worthy of a top 5. 2 OT's maybe. As for DE's, it remains to be seen if any hold on to their current lofty status. Mayhew has screwed up plenty in previous drafts, so it's not a given he has learned from past mistakes yet. I'm to the point where on draft day, I'll cringe every time we're on the clock expecting Mayhew to f-it up.


January 29th, 2013, 9:02 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
liontrax wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I am thrilled to go into a draft completely relaxed and ready to enjoy the ride, for once. I am looking at this draft and our draft position. And I'm seeing multiple possibilities on all levels, and all fronts. I simply don't think we could screw this draft up if we still had Millen as GM.

You want an OLT? There are 2 to chose from if Philly passes on 1.
You want a DE? We might have our pick of 2 really good ones.
You want a LB? There are a couple of them to chose from.
You want OG? #5 might be a little high for the position, But, there is pro Bowl Guard there for the taking.
You want CB? There are 3 worthy of the pick.

And despite the early downgrading of this years QB's, I still expect 2 of them to go in the top 5 picks. That's just what QB desperate teams will do. So, trading down a few spots is most certainly an option.

I see no possible way for Mayhew, or anyone else to screw up this wet dream.



Sorry Billy, but I don't see 3 corners worthy of a top 5. 2 OT's maybe. As for DE's, it remains to be seen if any hold on to their current lofty status. Mayhew has screwed up plenty in previous drafts, so it's not a given he has learned from past mistakes yet. I'm to the point where on draft day, I'll cringe every time we're on the clock expecting Mayhew to f-it up.


Though I agree I dont see 3 corners as top 5 picks, i DO however see 3 corners that are not too far from each other in terms of talent and what they could contribute to this team.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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January 29th, 2013, 9:52 am
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree I dont see 3 corners as top 5 picks, i DO however see 3 corners that are not too far from each other in terms of talent and what they could contribute to this team.


What do you mean by that?

You could mean that there are three guys that we could pick in the top 5, and you don't care who we take as long as they help us? Or you could mean pass on a CB in round 1 because there are three good ones in the draft...

For those screaming for Dee Millner, know that's he a lot more Morris Claiborne than he is Patrick Peterson. There are no Patrick Peterson's in this years draft, and Claiborne was outplayed by Jenoris Jenkins (2nd round pick, whom, even prior to his character issues was always ranked beneath Claiborne), AND Trumaine Johnson (3rd round pick, who more or less single-handedly shut down Calvin Johnson in his first game ever).

Again, I still think this team should look to sign Tracy Porter in FA to solidify the their CB position prior to the draft. He was medically cleared to play two weeks after suffering his seizure, his seizure may have been caused by the thin air in Denver, and Denver would have likely brought him back had Chris Harris not been playing so well. Houston, Porter, Bently, Greenwood doesn't look too bad at CB, and then we can concentrate on filling our FS need.

I think Massoquoi should be our #2 FA target. We can afford him, he'll fill a need, we won't have to worry about a bone-headed moron or drafting another bust, and he'll help out CJ immensely.

OG should be our 3rd consideration in FA. Before you scream that I'm being greedy, know that we could sign an upgrade at OG for what we could save cutting Peterson, or we could draft a better OG in the 2nd round and save a ton of money over what we're paying Peterson (which is why I think we erred in not drafting DeCastro last year, we would be $3 mill ahead of the game right now in the OG department).

If we take care of CB, WR, and OG in FA, it frees us up to concentrate on LT, DE, and FS in the draft. That's much more realistic and much more reasonable.


January 29th, 2013, 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree I dont see 3 corners as top 5 picks, i DO however see 3 corners that are not too far from each other in terms of talent and what they could contribute to this team.


What do you mean by that?

You could mean that there are three guys that we could pick in the top 5, and you don't care who we take as long as they help us? Or you could mean pass on a CB in round 1 because there are three good ones in the draft...

For those screaming for Dee Millner, know that's he a lot more Morris Claiborne than he is Patrick Peterson. There are no Patrick Peterson's in this years draft, and Claiborne was outplayed by Jenoris Jenkins (2nd round pick, whom, even prior to his character issues was always ranked beneath Claiborne), AND Trumaine Johnson (3rd round pick, who more or less single-handedly shut down Calvin Johnson in his first game ever).

Again, I still think this team should look to sign Tracy Porter in FA to solidify the their CB position prior to the draft. He was medically cleared to play two weeks after suffering his seizure, his seizure may have been caused by the thin air in Denver, and Denver would have likely brought him back had Chris Harris not been playing so well. Houston, Porter, Bently, Greenwood doesn't look too bad at CB, and then we can concentrate on filling our FS need.

I think Massoquoi should be our #2 FA target. We can afford him, he'll fill a need, we won't have to worry about a bone-headed moron or drafting another bust, and he'll help out CJ immensely.

OG should be our 3rd consideration in FA. Before you scream that I'm being greedy, know that we could sign an upgrade at OG for what we could save cutting Peterson, or we could draft a better OG in the 2nd round and save a ton of money over what we're paying Peterson (which is why I think we erred in not drafting DeCastro last year, we would be $3 mill ahead of the game right now in the OG department).

If we take care of CB, WR, and OG in FA, it frees us up to concentrate on LT, DE, and FS in the draft. That's much more realistic and much more reasonable.


Thats probably the best idea for FA while taking advantage of the talent in this years draft. I think Xanders was still in Denver when they signed porter so maybe he'll give the Lions a gateway to him.

I would also look at Hixon at WR, he's big and probably brings better speed than Massaquoi. I doubt he'll cost much different than Massaquoi.

The Lions may still be ahead at OG since Reiff can still take that spot if they sign another OT and/or resign Gosder. It may not be the ideal move but even just replacing Peterson with Reiff this season has to make the line better than it was with Peterson last season. I don't think Reiff got a fair shot last season since this staff would rather play a washed up/never been veteran over a talented rookie no matter what. Reiff comes from a good Oline school and played in a stance like he would in the pros, he probably needed to add strength, but Backus has managed his whole career without any strength and Reiff probably just needs consistent reps in a few games to take over for him.


January 29th, 2013, 3:23 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree I dont see 3 corners as top 5 picks, i DO however see 3 corners that are not too far from each other in terms of talent and what they could contribute to this team.


What do you mean by that?

You could mean that there are three guys that we could pick in the top 5, and you don't care who we take as long as they help us? Or you could mean pass on a CB in round 1 because there are three good ones in the draft...

For those screaming for Dee Millner, know that's he a lot more Morris Claiborne than he is Patrick Peterson. There are no Patrick Peterson's in this years draft, and Claiborne was outplayed by Jenoris Jenkins (2nd round pick, whom, even prior to his character issues was always ranked beneath Claiborne), AND Trumaine Johnson (3rd round pick, who more or less single-handedly shut down Calvin Johnson in his first game ever).

Again, I still think this team should look to sign Tracy Porter in FA to solidify the their CB position prior to the draft. He was medically cleared to play two weeks after suffering his seizure, his seizure may have been caused by the thin air in Denver, and Denver would have likely brought him back had Chris Harris not been playing so well. Houston, Porter, Bently, Greenwood doesn't look too bad at CB, and then we can concentrate on filling our FS need.

I think Massoquoi should be our #2 FA target. We can afford him, he'll fill a need, we won't have to worry about a bone-headed moron or drafting another bust, and he'll help out CJ immensely.

OG should be our 3rd consideration in FA. Before you scream that I'm being greedy, know that we could sign an upgrade at OG for what we could save cutting Peterson, or we could draft a better OG in the 2nd round and save a ton of money over what we're paying Peterson (which is why I think we erred in not drafting DeCastro last year, we would be $3 mill ahead of the game right now in the OG department).

If we take care of CB, WR, and OG in FA, it frees us up to concentrate on LT, DE, and FS in the draft. That's much more realistic and much more reasonable.


Thats probably the best idea for FA while taking advantage of the talent in this years draft. I think Xanders was still in Denver when they signed porter so maybe he'll give the Lions a gateway to him.

I would also look at Hixon at WR, he's big and probably brings better speed than Massaquoi. I doubt he'll cost much different than Massaquoi.

The Lions may still be ahead at OG since Reiff can still take that spot if they sign another OT and/or resign Gosder. It may not be the ideal move but even just replacing Peterson with Reiff this season has to make the line better than it was with Peterson last season. I don't think Reiff got a fair shot last season since this staff would rather play a washed up/never been veteran over a talented rookie no matter what. Reiff comes from a good Oline school and played in a stance like he would in the pros, he probably needed to add strength, but Backus has managed his whole career without any strength and Reiff probably just needs consistent reps in a few games to take over for him.


I agree with you completely. My thoughts were to let Gos go (whom I think will be looking for starting OT money, even if it's RT money), let Reiff play RT, and sign an OG to more or less replace Gos at a cheaper rate. I realize this staff has a hard-on for vets, but IMO Reiff struggled handedly when he filled in for Backus, and we seemed to rush Backus back from his injury and preferred him playing hurt over a healthy Reiff. While this staff may prefer vets to rookies, they're generally good about giving players time to fully heal from injury, and we were anxious to abandon that philosophy with Backus and get him back out there ASAP. That tells me something about the progress of Reiff.

I don't disagree with your thoughts of the pad level/stance of Reiff, but I do agree with your assertions that strength is his issue. I have to believe that Reiff is stronger than Backus right now. What I think Reiff lacks is the fundamental technique and ability to shield of would be sack artists with his hands and/or lateral agility and quickness with his feet. My gut thinks it has more to do with his hands, but he is horrifically out of position at times.

And, no offense, but I have to question if you've thought this through... I mean, you're advocating putting Reiff in at OG, which is typically a position that requires more strength than LT.


January 29th, 2013, 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree I dont see 3 corners as top 5 picks, i DO however see 3 corners that are not too far from each other in terms of talent and what they could contribute to this team.


What do you mean by that?



What do I mean by that? I mean exactly what I said. I dont see ANY corner worth a top 5 pick, but from lets say 8-20, I dont see a WHOLE lot of difference between Milliner, Banks, and Rhodes as far as talent and how they could impact this team.

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April 22nd, 2010 @ 7:44p.m. "The Detroit Lions select...Ndamukong Suh". Those are some beautiful words.


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January 29th, 2013, 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree I dont see 3 corners as top 5 picks, i DO however see 3 corners that are not too far from each other in terms of talent and what they could contribute to this team.


What do you mean by that?

You could mean that there are three guys that we could pick in the top 5, and you don't care who we take as long as they help us? Or you could mean pass on a CB in round 1 because there are three good ones in the draft...

For those screaming for Dee Millner, know that's he a lot more Morris Claiborne than he is Patrick Peterson. There are no Patrick Peterson's in this years draft, and Claiborne was outplayed by Jenoris Jenkins (2nd round pick, whom, even prior to his character issues was always ranked beneath Claiborne), AND Trumaine Johnson (3rd round pick, who more or less single-handedly shut down Calvin Johnson in his first game ever).

Again, I still think this team should look to sign Tracy Porter in FA to solidify the their CB position prior to the draft. He was medically cleared to play two weeks after suffering his seizure, his seizure may have been caused by the thin air in Denver, and Denver would have likely brought him back had Chris Harris not been playing so well. Houston, Porter, Bently, Greenwood doesn't look too bad at CB, and then we can concentrate on filling our FS need.

I think Massoquoi should be our #2 FA target. We can afford him, he'll fill a need, we won't have to worry about a bone-headed moron or drafting another bust, and he'll help out CJ immensely.

OG should be our 3rd consideration in FA. Before you scream that I'm being greedy, know that we could sign an upgrade at OG for what we could save cutting Peterson, or we could draft a better OG in the 2nd round and save a ton of money over what we're paying Peterson (which is why I think we erred in not drafting DeCastro last year, we would be $3 mill ahead of the game right now in the OG department).

If we take care of CB, WR, and OG in FA, it frees us up to concentrate on LT, DE, and FS in the draft. That's much more realistic and much more reasonable.



Agree with your observations, but in a different order. I believe a starting guard should be the priority (Levitre), then a WR, and Massoquoi would be fine with me as he is familiar with Staff.


January 29th, 2013, 6:05 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
Though I agree I dont see 3 corners as top 5 picks, i DO however see 3 corners that are not too far from each other in terms of talent and what they could contribute to this team.


What do you mean by that?



What do I mean by that? I mean exactly what I said. I dont see ANY corner worth a top 5 pick, but from lets say 8-20, I dont see a WHOLE lot of difference between Milliner, Banks, and Rhodes as far as talent and how they could impact this team.



I too don't see any corners as top 5. Top 10 maybe. Too soon to tell. But, I do like the corner from Washington, Desmond Trufant, if he's there in the 2nd, hope he's considered.


January 29th, 2013, 6:12 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
I heard a bit about Trufant earlier in the process and then his Senior Bowl performance raised his stock. I think he ends up going in the 20s.


January 29th, 2013, 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
I heard a bit about Trufant earlier in the process and then his Senior Bowl performance raised his stock. I think he ends up going in the 20s.


As in Fitz Trufant? I wouldn't touch him before the third round. He's another Chris Perry, average speed, average hands, nothing special RB.


January 29th, 2013, 8:46 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
He's talking about the DB Desmond Trufant.


January 29th, 2013, 9:15 pm
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Post Re: Lions Pick Fifth
rao wrote:
He's talking about the DB Desmond Trufant.


Ah, sorry... Just making sure someone wasn't over-valuing the hometown talent.


January 29th, 2013, 9:20 pm
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