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 Senior Bowl. 
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
You guys have a good "argument" going, but the only thing I can chime in on is Reiff was a damn rookie for Christ sake. Ya think hes gonna make some errors? And no offense, but WJB it does seem like you are overall a Lions hater. I understand at 4-12 theres not a whole lot to be happy about, but still. A lot of us wanted DeCastro over Reiff, but it is what it is. Same with Konz. Whatever, its done. Im not saying I dont look back and wonder what if... On the other hand, if Mayhew doesnt make some big moves this offseason, im gonna be your #2.

I watched the same games you did, and thought none of us are actual "evaluators", I didnt think Reiff did as bad as you think he did. Again, opinions. This offseason is gonna be huge for him. If he doesnt basically "own" a job at one of the tackle positions, there just might be something to be concerned about.


KSD, I'm not calling Reiff a bust, but I don't think it's prudent for Mayhew to go into 2013 thinking Reiff will be our LT. It's quite possible that one day maybe Reiff could play LT in the NFL, but I don't think it's prudent to assume that going into 2013, not with how much stock this team puts into their passing game. As I have said, the LT position is more or less the 2nd most important position on the entire team, given our team philosophy. Further, I don't think going into the season relying on Backus to start and Reiff to play when Backus is injured is prudent either. Backus showed sever decline last year and was hurt. There's no reason to believe he's going to get better in 2013. It's time to cut ties with Backus, save $2.5 million and sign or draft someone that should be capable of starting at LT.

I have little doubt that Fisher, right now, is a better LT than Reiff, despite the fact that Reiff has had a year of NFL coaching, another year to develop and mature, and a year to add size and strength. I also have little doubt that Reiff is capable of being an RT. I think he very well could be a great RT, and I think it's smart money to put him at RT and let Gos walk. If Gos signs for less than $5 million average per year, I'll be surprised, and I personally don't think he's worth $2.5 million.

IMO it's a perfect situation to fill two positions with one draft pick (LT and RT), set our OL up for some sustained youth, and audition Fox, Nagy for the remaining OG position, or giving Nagy the OG position to see if he can stay healthy to take over for Dom in 2014.


Unfortunately WJB, i have a feeling this organization firmly believes that Reiff is their LT. Not RT. But LT. Whether I agree or disagree, or whether i think hes ready or not doesnt matter, but I think this organization is thinking "We drafted this guy to be our LT and that fact alone means hes gonna play LT for us". I think thats a piss poor way of doing things, but i have a strong feeling thats whats going on and thats whats going to happen.

I cant comment on Fisher because I have never seen him play. And I dont want to "grade" a player based on where analysts have him ranked. I freakin HATE it when people do that. BUT, I have seen Joeckel play several times and I think if this team wants to finally put to rest needing a SOLID left tackle, not just a LT, but a SOLID left tackle, they might just want to trade up and draft him. From what I've seen, I think he clearly is a better fit at LT than Reiff. He is a fantastic pass blocker. Now, if Fisher really is all he is being cracked up to be and that he could "push" Joeckel as the top tackle taken, I guess I'd have no problem with the Lions drafting him. This is only if they drafted him to be their LT. If they had any thoughts of burning a #5 overall pick on someone to play RT, I will find a new team to root for.

I think im going to do what I cant stand people doing, and that is get on YouTube and watch Eric Fisher. ](*,) Seasons over, no other way to do it. At least itll give me an idea. Standby.

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January 31st, 2013, 7:16 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
I don't remember the Lions saying that Riley is definitely going to be the LT of the future. I know they drafted him hoping he could be. But, I don't remember them actually saying he is going to be the LT.

Besides that, I agree with wjb on this. Fisher is FAR better right now than Riley as a LT. Joeckel also. Either one. I want the Lions to draft one of them at #5 if we can't trade down. I know. I'm the defense 1st guy. But, I believe this draft is loaded with CB's and Safeties. And I am confident there will be a good CB at the top of the 2nd round and a good Safety at the top of the 3rd round.

Sure, we could use another DE. But, I don't think it is imperative that we draft one this year. Next year, we will likely be drafting lower down in the last half of the 1st round. There should be a DE there. And I don't see us being this high in the top notch LT range again anytime soon.


January 31st, 2013, 9:15 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
BillySims wrote:
I don't remember the Lions saying that Riley is definitely going to be the LT of the future. I know they drafted him hoping he could be. But, I don't remember them actually saying he is going to be the LT.

Besides that, I agree with wjb on this. Fisher is FAR better right now than Riley as a LT. Joeckel also. Either one. I want the Lions to draft one of them at #5 if we can't trade down. I know. I'm the defense 1st guy. But, I believe this draft is loaded with CB's and Safeties. And I am confident there will be a good CB at the top of the 2nd round and a good Safety at the top of the 3rd round.

Sure, we could use another DE. But, I don't think it is imperative that we draft one this year. Next year, we will likely be drafting lower down in the last half of the 1st round. There should be a DE there. And I don't see us being this high in the top notch LT range again anytime soon.


Welcome to the dark side... :twisted:

:cheers:


January 31st, 2013, 9:16 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I don't remember the Lions saying that Riley is definitely going to be the LT of the future. I know they drafted him hoping he could be. But, I don't remember them actually saying he is going to be the LT.

Besides that, I agree with wjb on this. Fisher is FAR better right now than Riley as a LT. Joeckel also. Either one. I want the Lions to draft one of them at #5 if we can't trade down. I know. I'm the defense 1st guy. But, I believe this draft is loaded with CB's and Safeties. And I am confident there will be a good CB at the top of the 2nd round and a good Safety at the top of the 3rd round.

Sure, we could use another DE. But, I don't think it is imperative that we draft one this year. Next year, we will likely be drafting lower down in the last half of the 1st round. There should be a DE there. And I don't see us being this high in the top notch LT range again anytime soon.


Welcome to the dark side... :twisted:

:cheers:

Ya, I don't think people realize just how many games our offense lost last season.

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January 31st, 2013, 10:11 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
sorry but i have to chime in here.wb,s opinion on how our olineman played is so wrong its sicking.he says how bad goz is well pft rated him the best rt in the league and in nfl circles will be one of the most sought after freeagents.jeff besides the injury,s had one of his best years.look up the stats they dont lie.the fact we had one of the best offences in the league is there in black and white.were there some negitives of course there was.lets see dom and petermen were both horrid and no our coaching staff did not want reiff at guard plain and simple.there was no speed threat at running back to slow down the other teams passrush.we knew this goin in but best not coming back killed us there.and trust me the boss knew he blew that one.to many turn overs way to many.and nobody stepped up into that number 2 wideout position.the real problem was the defence most notably our defensive ends.avril was ok as he lead the team in sacks but disappeared way to much and again was bad against the run.kvb well the wheels just came off this season and most likely wont be back.mr young looked like a 7rd pick and did very little to nothing and LJ is a solid run guy but lets face it not much of a passrusher.the biggest difference from 2011 and this season was our defensive ends play and will be our biggest offseason concern and yes the secondary will be addressed but safety is a bigger concern then corner.


February 1st, 2013, 4:48 am
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
That's not bragging, it's just a fact, and since you chose to attack my personal life opposed to staying on topic and talking about Reiff, I'll defend it.
You're right, I apologize I should've never brought your personal life into the discussion.

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February 1st, 2013, 9:05 am
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
allenslions wrote:
sorry but i have to chime in here.wb,s opinion on how our olineman played is so wrong its sicking.he says how bad goz is well pft rated him the best rt in the league and in nfl circles will be one of the most sought after freeagents.jeff besides the injury,s had one of his best years.look up the stats they dont lie.the fact we had one of the best offences in the league is there in black and white.were there some negitives of course there was.lets see dom and petermen were both horrid and no our coaching staff did not want reiff at guard plain and simple.there was no speed threat at running back to slow down the other teams passrush.we knew this goin in but best not coming back killed us there.and trust me the boss knew he blew that one.to many turn overs way to many.and nobody stepped up into that number 2 wideout position.the real problem was the defence most notably our defensive ends.avril was ok as he lead the team in sacks but disappeared way to much and again was bad against the run.kvb well the wheels just came off this season and most likely wont be back.mr young looked like a 7rd pick and did very little to nothing and LJ is a solid run guy but lets face it not much of a passrusher.the biggest difference from 2011 and this season was our defensive ends play and will be our biggest offseason concern and yes the secondary will be addressed but safety is a bigger concern then corner.


Not that you have a whole lot of credibility at this point, but, I don't say Gos is "bad" I say he's inconsistent, and he is. Further, the guy racks up an enormous amount of false start penalties, and he's done so his entire career. Moreover, if what you say is true he's going to want more than $6.5 per year, and that's just another reason to let him go.

You claim to be an educated "insider," yet you write at a 6th grade level, at best. I do think it's petty to point out grammatical issues, but yours are atrocious and they're in every post. Comma use, basic sentence structure, etc., seem to be troublesome for you, and that has nothing to do with the device you're typing from. I'm currently typing on an iPhone 4s. Additionally, virtually every "inside tip" that you gave us on last years draft was a flop, the draft itself was largely a flop, and Mayhew and Co. have sought the need to bring in an "expert" to "rebuild" the scouting department you so vehiminantly raved about.

You carry absolutely zero credibility with me, and many others on this board at this point.


Last edited by wjb21ndtown on February 1st, 2013, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.



February 1st, 2013, 11:50 am
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
Personally, j/k. I was lucky enough to see more tape of Fisher than most. Living near Central that's the news and the gossip.

In Senior Bowl practice, only 1 pass rusher beat Fisher badly. Next play with that cat? Fisher put him on his rectum. Nobody got by him after that.
They isolated him on camera several times in that one practice. His footwork and hands are as good as half of the pro tackles. I know that he was going up against college players, but they are some of the best in the country and guys he may well be facing in the coming years.

I would have no problem with Fisher being in a Lions uniform as long as we have a field day in FA. I know those chances are small. Just saying, he's going a long way at the next level.


February 1st, 2013, 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
Damn WJB! I thought, you were talking about me with-all the gramatactical errors. #-o

I know I have more errors than most and care. School was many moons ago :ppp:

One point that I want to make dosen't belong in this thread but I don't want to forget it, so I'll put it here and our evil admin guys can move it. =D>

I was reading on KFFL that several Lions players got pay raises due to incentives in their contracts. One of which was Brandon Pettigrew. Did you know that his base salary last year was less than $2mil? Remember I said base. I still think that we have a diamond in the rough with him Who the hell is our TEs coach? Where's Charley Sanders, Todd Christenson or Kellen Winslow. Senior that is!


February 1st, 2013, 12:26 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
Boz wrote:
Damn WJB! I thought, you were talking about me with-all the gramatactical errors. #-o

I know I have more errors than most and care. School was many moons ago :ppp:

One point that I want to make dosen't belong in this thread but I don't want to forget it, so I'll put it here and our evil admin guys can move it. =D>

I was reading on KFFL that several Lions players got pay raises due to incentives in their contracts. One of which was Brandon Pettigrew. Did you know that his base salary last year was less than $2mil? Remember I said base. I still think that we have a diamond in the rough with him Who the hell is our TEs coach? Where's Charley Sanders, Todd Christenson or Kellen Winslow. Senior that is!


Ha... Boz, I don't care if people spell without vowels, as long as you're not claiming to be a college educated member of our Detroit Lions staff. If they're employing people that can't form sentences, it says something as to why they're in the state they're in.

I just don't see Pett as having any "heart." He gets lost in the big moment, drops the crucial catch, and doesn't seem to care one way or another. I never see him get mad at himself.

Sport trac claims that Pett's base salary was actually $1.06 million. He's on his rookie deal, so he's going to be cheap, but he's probably going to be looking for $3.5-5.5 per year when he comes off of that deal. He's still cheap, but IMO he's largely been a bust thus far. Sport trac allegedly adds "incentive bonuses" when they apply, but they're not always accurate. Here's a link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lion ... pettigrew/

You can search virtually any NFL players contract on their site. If you look below the numbers, there's bullet points as to each roster bonus, and the incentive bonuses are noted there when they actually report them.


February 1st, 2013, 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
windy your a joke and your opinions are laughable.attack my grammer on a message board fine but i dont see you backing up your opinions with any facts.and as for last years draft i do recall telling everyone on here we were selecting greenwood days before the draft.know i,m one with you and i,ll go back to just reading the posts and answering the messages i get for info.later


February 1st, 2013, 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
allenslions wrote:
windy your a joke and your opinions are laughable.attack my grammer on a message board fine but i dont see you backing up your opinions with any facts.and as for last years draft i do recall telling everyone on here we were selecting greenwood days before the draft.know i,m one with you and i,ll go back to just reading the posts and answering the messages i get for info.later


I don't back up my opinions with fact? Like the fact that we should have cut Nate last year, instead of extending his contract and now we're stuck paying him $6.5 million dollars next year? Like the fact that I said Corey Williams' $5.5 million would have served us better elsewhere? The fact that I cautioned that we're going to be in cap hell if we don't start addressing some of these concerns now... and WOW... Here we are... In cap hell!!!

How about my assertions that Stafford can't pick up the blitz and he isn't earning his paycheck that's similar to guys like Breese and Brady? Seems pretty true after last season. How about my prediction that Pettigrew is abysmal and has no heart and poor hands? Everyone seems to be jumping on that bandwagon (see the thread "Pettigrew Sucks" that I didn't start and everyone now pretty much universally agrees with). I don't make "predictions" after they happen. I put my opinion out there for all to criticize, state what I think, and if it comes true, great, and if I was wrong, unlike you, I admit it.

You may have said that we would draft Greenwood... WOW... One pick out of 6? 7? Posters on here regularly do better than that without the use of your "inside information." You also said that we "wouldn't pass on a DE" that we definitely passed on ( and I think one guy you mentioned Curry maybe? we passed on TWICE!). Like I've said all along, you're "inside info is a joke," the manner in which you conduct yourself while allegedly representing a billion dollar sports franchise is a joke, and I don't believe a word that you type. I think you get snippets of info somewhere, from a 3rd party perhaps? Hell, maybe even 4th hand given how bad it is. You may have a relative, friend or reporter that feeds you info, but you're wrong way more than you're right. And like it or not, they way you type and present yourself is far less than professional.

Have any explanation of Xander being brought on to "revamp" the scouting department that you claim is tops in the league, despite sucking year after year?


February 1st, 2013, 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
You guys have a good "argument" going, but the only thing I can chime in on is Reiff was a damn rookie for Christ sake. Ya think hes gonna make some errors? And no offense, but WJB it does seem like you are overall a Lions hater. I understand at 4-12 theres not a whole lot to be happy about, but still. A lot of us wanted DeCastro over Reiff, but it is what it is. Same with Konz. Whatever, its done. Im not saying I dont look back and wonder what if... On the other hand, if Mayhew doesnt make some big moves this offseason, im gonna be your #2.

I watched the same games you did, and thought none of us are actual "evaluators", I didnt think Reiff did as bad as you think he did. Again, opinions. This offseason is gonna be huge for him. If he doesnt basically "own" a job at one of the tackle positions, there just might be something to be concerned about.


KSD, I'm not calling Reiff a bust, but I don't think it's prudent for Mayhew to go into 2013 thinking Reiff will be our LT. It's quite possible that one day maybe Reiff could play LT in the NFL, but I don't think it's prudent to assume that going into 2013, not with how much stock this team puts into their passing game. As I have said, the LT position is more or less the 2nd most important position on the entire team, given our team philosophy. Further, I don't think going into the season relying on Backus to start and Reiff to play when Backus is injured is prudent either. Backus showed sever decline last year and was hurt. There's no reason to believe he's going to get better in 2013. It's time to cut ties with Backus, save $2.5 million and sign or draft someone that should be capable of starting at LT.

I have little doubt that Fisher, right now, is a better LT than Reiff, despite the fact that Reiff has had a year of NFL coaching, another year to develop and mature, and a year to add size and strength. I also have little doubt that Reiff is capable of being an RT. I think he very well could be a great RT, and I think it's smart money to put him at RT and let Gos walk. If Gos signs for less than $5 million average per year, I'll be surprised, and I personally don't think he's worth $2.5 million.

IMO it's a perfect situation to fill two positions with one draft pick (LT and RT), set our OL up for some sustained youth, and audition Fox, Nagy for the remaining OG position, or giving Nagy the OG position to see if he can stay healthy to take over for Dom in 2014.



I am currently in KSDs shoes, but do find myself caught offguard by your vehemence sometimes WJB, but also find myself agreeing more times than not in the past 3 months. To the Bolded Comments:

Mayhew: I agree he needs to prove something this offseason-preseason, and it better reflect in the W-L record or its about over IMO. It doesnt have to be huge trade steals, or a large FA Signing, but its gotta be better than resigning 21 of 22 players and playing llike total rectum for the next yr.

Reiff: Agreed that To take another step, He needs to Own either RT or LT THIS YEAR.. or we might as well just relegate him to replace Peterman at Guard and consider him a highly drafted guard. He cant be a rotational guy, or a 6th OL, etc and still validate his draft position.

Backus: Id like to see them restructure or cut/resign him, offer him Vet Min or a little more for 1 yr (2 yrs tops), and he becomes the Injury Backup for both OT spots. He gets to retire a Lion, we have a backup with decade+ starting experience on the cheap, and we have 1 less hole to fill. If he wants more than that you cut him.

Cherilus/Fox/Nagy - Agree with WJBs sentiments for how to handle OL.


February 1st, 2013, 5:22 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
I realize sometimes I say things too absolutely. Part of it comes with the territory of my profession. I'm trained to do it 40+ hours a week, and it creeps into my personal life and posts. In the court room you bring up both sides and bash one, and have a definite and concrete desired outcome, and it shows up in posts, no doubt.

That said, I don't get "bent" when Mayhew doesn't follow "my" strategy and plan. I realize there is a completely alternative and acceptable plan that has us drafting a DE at #5. I don't agree with it, but I realize it. And, I CAN agree with it and be HAPPY about it if Mayhew actually has a VIABLE plan that he executes that addresses other issues.

Last year I saw holes galore and an AMAZING opportunity to cut fat (about $15 million dollars, easily), sign some long-term FAs, get some youth and talent on this team where we needed it, and experience and leadership in areas where we needed it, and Mayhew did NOTHING, and I mean phucking NOTHING!!! I was bent, I'll admit it, and even Mayhew would agree now that what he did was wrong, and I honestly think if he saw my thoughts on what we should have done last year and read them now, he'd say "wow... he was spot on..." or at least "wow... we would have been a lot better off had we done that."

Every year I have a plan to fix the OL and every year we ignore it. It goes back to Brandon Pettigrew over Alex Mack, and honestly it goes back to Nick Mangold before that. I stated in the 2006 draft that if we came away with Nick Mangold in the first round then we would have had a good day. He was an amazing prospect and a great NFL player. I said we should have traded down into the 20s (I think I advocated 23 actually for some reason... way higher than I thought he would go). We picked Ernie Sims 9th or 10th or something like that, and the rest is history... That move would have cleared up some $20 + million that we later extended Raiola to, foolishly. But I don't care about that...

Later I advocated Alex Mack, whom could have fixed our interior OL, and last year I advocated for Peter Kontz that could have saved us $3 million last year, and $5+ million this year replacing Raiola in 2013. We drafted a garbage TE with no heart and busted WR instead that couldn't finish the season healthy, respectively.

I have no problem with drafting a DE at #5, but RELYING on Reiff to play LT is ridiculous. IMO they'll probably play Reiff at RT next year until Backus gets hurt, then move Reiff to LT and struggle all year on the OL scrambling, and the announcers will talk about how injuries plagued us just like they did last year. But it's dumb. If we go into the season with our current OLmen, we're going to suck, period. I don't care if we draft the second coming of superman to play DE, we're going to freaking suck. We're not going to be able to sustain drives, anyone on the D side of the ball won't get proper rest. They'll be playing tired, and they'll suck, flat out. We won't be able to close games, we won't be able to "win on offense" and we'll be relying on our D to make a last drive stop, winded, tried and beat, just like we did last year, and we'll come up short time and time again until people on here scream and cry about coaching and stick up for their beloved players and make excuses for everyone.

That's what the Lions do, every year. Hopefully I'm wrong in 2013. Hopefully we EITHER sign or draft a legitimate LT, move Reiff to RT, and cut Peterman. I think this line CAN survive with Peterman, but Reiff at LT is huge mistake.


February 1st, 2013, 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Hopefully we EITHER sign or draft a legitimate LT, move Reiff to RT, and cut Peterman. I think this line CAN survive with Peterman, but Reiff at LT is huge mistake.


I completely agree with this. But, we will HAVE TO DRAFT a LT. LT's that are any good at all, DO NOT find their way to free agency. If there is a LT in FA, he isn't worth the money he will cost.

We have a much better chance to get a good DE in FA for an affordable contract.

I think Mayhew said that the top priority going into this off season was to get both, Stafford and Suh, Brand new, long term Contracts that provide Cap relief for this year and next year. Yes wjb, he is going to kick that can again. He has no choice except to dismantle the entire team and start over.

But, on the bright side for all you "Trade Suh" guys, locking him up long term with 2 cap friendly years up front, should make him way more tradeable especially, if instead of a signing bonus, Suh would accept a guaranteed roster bonus in year 3, year 4, and year 5. We would probably have to agree to pay half of those bonuses if we trade him. But, there wouldn't be any accelerated signing bonus to pay for the year we trade him.


February 1st, 2013, 6:26 pm
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