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 Senior Bowl. 
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Hopefully we EITHER sign or draft a legitimate LT, move Reiff to RT, and cut Peterman. I think this line CAN survive with Peterman, but Reiff at LT is huge mistake.


I completely agree with this. But, we will HAVE TO DRAFT a LT. LT's that are any good at all, DO NOT find their way to free agency. If there is a LT in FA, he isn't worth the money he will cost.

We have a much better chance to get a good DE in FA for an affordable contract.

I think Mayhew said that the top priority going into this off season was to get both, Stafford and Suh, Brand new, long term Contracts that provide Cap relief for this year and next year. Yes wjb, he is going to kick that can again. He has no choice except to dismantle the entire team and start over.

But, on the bright side for all you "Trade Suh" guys, locking him up long term with 2 cap friendly years up front, should make him way more tradeable especially, if instead of a signing bonus, Suh would accept a guaranteed roster bonus in year 3, year 4, and year 5. We would probably have to agree to pay half of those bonuses if we trade him. But, there wouldn't be any accelerated signing bonus to pay for the year we trade him.


Billy, there really isn't a way to extend Suh that makes sense, and even Stafford is an extremely risky proposition. Stafford is due $41 million in the next two seasons, and he has no cause to take a pay cut. His "salary" is either primarily guaranteed or at least quasi-guaranteed. That means that Mayhew is going to have to give Staff a reasonable salary PLUS his 2013 and 2014 money "baked into" that deal.

What do you think a reasonable salary for Stafford is? I'm telling you he won't sign for less than $10 million per year, I think the real number is closer to $15 million per year. So, 7 years, $15 million per year gets him signed until he's 31, and guarantees him elite Qb money when he hasn't proven that he's earned it. That's $105 million dollar deal, WITHOUT baking into the deal his 2012 and 2013 salary. Now, he may be willing to eat his 2014 salary to make it happen, because that's not yet guaranteed, but that's only $11 million dollars. So you have to add in another $30 million dollars that Stafford is already guaranteed to the $105 million dollar deal, making it a $135 million dollar deal. What's that average? $19 million dollars per year...

How are we any better off?

There is a similar issue with Suh, which is why we can't expect to keep Staff, CJ & Suh... It's a pick any 2 proposition.


February 1st, 2013, 7:02 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Hopefully we EITHER sign or draft a legitimate LT, move Reiff to RT, and cut Peterman. I think this line CAN survive with Peterman, but Reiff at LT is huge mistake.


I completely agree with this. But, we will HAVE TO DRAFT a LT. LT's that are any good at all, DO NOT find their way to free agency. If there is a LT in FA, he isn't worth the money he will cost.

We have a much better chance to get a good DE in FA for an affordable contract.

I think Mayhew said that the top priority going into this off season was to get both, Stafford and Suh, Brand new, long term Contracts that provide Cap relief for this year and next year. Yes wjb, he is going to kick that can again. He has no choice except to dismantle the entire team and start over.

But, on the bright side for all you "Trade Suh" guys, locking him up long term with 2 cap friendly years up front, should make him way more tradeable especially, if instead of a signing bonus, Suh would accept a guaranteed roster bonus in year 3, year 4, and year 5. We would probably have to agree to pay half of those bonuses if we trade him. But, there wouldn't be any accelerated signing bonus to pay for the year we trade him.


Billy, there really isn't a way to extend Suh that makes sense, and even Stafford is an extremely risky proposition. Stafford is due $41 million in the next two seasons, and he has no cause to take a pay cut. His "salary" is either primarily guaranteed or at least quasi-guaranteed. That means that Mayhew is going to have to give Staff a reasonable salary PLUS his 2013 and 2014 money "baked into" that deal.

What do you think a reasonable salary for Stafford is? I'm telling you he won't sign for less than $10 million per year, I think the real number is closer to $15 million per year. So, 7 years, $15 million per year gets him signed until he's 31, and guarantees him elite Qb money when he hasn't proven that he's earned it. That's $105 million dollar deal, WITHOUT baking into the deal his 2012 and 2013 salary. Now, he may be willing to eat his 2014 salary to make it happen, because that's not yet guaranteed, but that's only $11 million dollars. So you have to add in another $30 million dollars that Stafford is already guaranteed to the $105 million dollar deal, making it a $135 million dollar deal. What's that average? $19 million dollars per year...

How are we any better off?

There is a similar issue with Suh, which is why we can't expect to keep Staff, CJ & Suh... It's a pick any 2 proposition.


If I had to pick 2, it would clearly be Staff and CJ. If this were the case where they had to pick 2, any chance they could trade Suh to save some money?

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February 1st, 2013, 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Hopefully we EITHER sign or draft a legitimate LT, move Reiff to RT, and cut Peterman. I think this line CAN survive with Peterman, but Reiff at LT is huge mistake.


I completely agree with this. But, we will HAVE TO DRAFT a LT. LT's that are any good at all, DO NOT find their way to free agency. If there is a LT in FA, he isn't worth the money he will cost.

We have a much better chance to get a good DE in FA for an affordable contract.

I think Mayhew said that the top priority going into this off season was to get both, Stafford and Suh, Brand new, long term Contracts that provide Cap relief for this year and next year. Yes wjb, he is going to kick that can again. He has no choice except to dismantle the entire team and start over.

But, on the bright side for all you "Trade Suh" guys, locking him up long term with 2 cap friendly years up front, should make him way more tradeable especially, if instead of a signing bonus, Suh would accept a guaranteed roster bonus in year 3, year 4, and year 5. We would probably have to agree to pay half of those bonuses if we trade him. But, there wouldn't be any accelerated signing bonus to pay for the year we trade him.


Billy, there really isn't a way to extend Suh that makes sense, and even Stafford is an extremely risky proposition. Stafford is due $41 million in the next two seasons, and he has no cause to take a pay cut. His "salary" is either primarily guaranteed or at least quasi-guaranteed. That means that Mayhew is going to have to give Staff a reasonable salary PLUS his 2013 and 2014 money "baked into" that deal.

What do you think a reasonable salary for Stafford is? I'm telling you he won't sign for less than $10 million per year, I think the real number is closer to $15 million per year. So, 7 years, $15 million per year gets him signed until he's 31, and guarantees him elite Qb money when he hasn't proven that he's earned it. That's $105 million dollar deal, WITHOUT baking into the deal his 2012 and 2013 salary. Now, he may be willing to eat his 2014 salary to make it happen, because that's not yet guaranteed, but that's only $11 million dollars. So you have to add in another $30 million dollars that Stafford is already guaranteed to the $105 million dollar deal, making it a $135 million dollar deal. What's that average? $19 million dollars per year...

How are we any better off?

There is a similar issue with Suh, which is why we can't expect to keep Staff, CJ & Suh... It's a pick any 2 proposition.


If I had to pick 2, it would clearly be Staff and CJ. If this were the case where they had to pick 2, any chance they could trade Suh to save some money?


I don't know what's going on with Suh's contract, honestly. He was only signed through 2014, but now sport trac has him signed through 2015. It would have been a wash trading Suh with his contract expiring in 2014, his guaranteed money and his salary would have offset, saved us nothing, but cost us nothing, and saved his entire $17 million the following year. That's still "something." The 2015 has a "misc bonus" of $6 million, meaning it would cost us $18 million to save his salary of $11 million, netting us a loss of $7 million to cut him, IF that "misc bonus" is guaranteed. I have no way of knowing whether that misc bonus is guaranteed, but given Mayhew's M.O., I think it is.

I advocate trading for Revis because we would essentially be eating Suh's bonus, while the Jets at Revis' bonus, and it's more or less a wash. I get that we would have a ton in "dead money," but adding Revis is only $3 mill in salary. He's a $13 million dollar player, so it's somewhat a wash. The cap relief for trading Suh really doesn't come until 2014. However, at that time, Revis and Suh would drop off the cap, saving us $23 million.

*** Edit, according to 97.1 Revis was scheduled to make $6 million in salary in 2013, but they had his bonus money and his salary wrong, he's only scheduled to make $3 million, $6 million is his 2013 bonus, and the Jets would eat that.


February 1st, 2013, 8:35 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Hopefully we EITHER sign or draft a legitimate LT, move Reiff to RT, and cut Peterman. I think this line CAN survive with Peterman, but Reiff at LT is huge mistake.


I completely agree with this. But, we will HAVE TO DRAFT a LT. LT's that are any good at all, DO NOT find their way to free agency. If there is a LT in FA, he isn't worth the money he will cost.

We have a much better chance to get a good DE in FA for an affordable contract.

I think Mayhew said that the top priority going into this off season was to get both, Stafford and Suh, Brand new, long term Contracts that provide Cap relief for this year and next year. Yes wjb, he is going to kick that can again. He has no choice except to dismantle the entire team and start over.

But, on the bright side for all you "Trade Suh" guys, locking him up long term with 2 cap friendly years up front, should make him way more tradeable especially, if instead of a signing bonus, Suh would accept a guaranteed roster bonus in year 3, year 4, and year 5. We would probably have to agree to pay half of those bonuses if we trade him. But, there wouldn't be any accelerated signing bonus to pay for the year we trade him.


Billy, there really isn't a way to extend Suh that makes sense, and even Stafford is an extremely risky proposition. Stafford is due $41 million in the next two seasons, and he has no cause to take a pay cut. His "salary" is either primarily guaranteed or at least quasi-guaranteed. That means that Mayhew is going to have to give Staff a reasonable salary PLUS his 2013 and 2014 money "baked into" that deal.

What do you think a reasonable salary for Stafford is? I'm telling you he won't sign for less than $10 million per year, I think the real number is closer to $15 million per year. So, 7 years, $15 million per year gets him signed until he's 31, and guarantees him elite Qb money when he hasn't proven that he's earned it. That's $105 million dollar deal, WITHOUT baking into the deal his 2012 and 2013 salary. Now, he may be willing to eat his 2014 salary to make it happen, because that's not yet guaranteed, but that's only $11 million dollars. So you have to add in another $30 million dollars that Stafford is already guaranteed to the $105 million dollar deal, making it a $135 million dollar deal. What's that average? $19 million dollars per year...

How are we any better off?

There is a similar issue with Suh, which is why we can't expect to keep Staff, CJ & Suh... It's a pick any 2 proposition.


If I had to pick 2, it would clearly be Staff and CJ. If this were the case where they had to pick 2, any chance they could trade Suh to save some money?


I don't know what's going on with Suh's contract, honestly. He was only signed through 2014, but now sport trac has him signed through 2015. It would have been a wash trading Suh with his contract expiring in 2014, his guaranteed money and his salary would have offset, saved us nothing, but cost us nothing, and saved his entire $17 million the following year. That's still "something." The 2015 has a "misc bonus" of $6 million, meaning it would cost us $18 million to save his salary of $11 million, netting us a loss of $7 million to cut him, IF that "misc bonus" is guaranteed. I have no way of knowing whether that misc bonus is guaranteed, but given Mayhew's M.O., I think it is.

I advocate trading for Revis because we would essentially be eating Suh's bonus, while the Jets at Revis' bonus, and it's more or less a wash. I get that we would have a ton in "dead money," but adding Revis is only $3 mill in salary. He's a $13 million dollar player, so it's somewhat a wash. The cap relief for trading Suh really doesn't come until 2014. However, at that time, Revis and Suh would drop off the cap, saving us $23 million.

*** Edit, according to 97.1 Revis was scheduled to make $6 million in salary in 2013, but they had his bonus money and his salary wrong, he's only scheduled to make $3 million, $6 million is his 2013 bonus, and the Jets would eat that.

There is just no way the Lions would be able to move Suh to the Jets for Revis. Only way they get Revis is to move Suh some where for picks and then use those picks to get Revis from the Jets. Revis is getting put into trade talks only because the Jets are in really bad cap shape, there is no way they would take on Suh's cap number and get stuck with the same problem they have now with Revis.

I'm really interested in seeing what Suh's value would be right now. I don't think Mayhew would ever have the courage to look into it, but it really could be a chance to fix the team without falling to far back in the building process. I wish they would take a queue from the Saints and build the offense, a great offense can get by with a mediocre defense if that defense is always rested.


February 1st, 2013, 9:22 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Hopefully we EITHER sign or draft a legitimate LT, move Reiff to RT, and cut Peterman. I think this line CAN survive with Peterman, but Reiff at LT is huge mistake.


I completely agree with this. But, we will HAVE TO DRAFT a LT. LT's that are any good at all, DO NOT find their way to free agency. If there is a LT in FA, he isn't worth the money he will cost.

We have a much better chance to get a good DE in FA for an affordable contract.

I think Mayhew said that the top priority going into this off season was to get both, Stafford and Suh, Brand new, long term Contracts that provide Cap relief for this year and next year. Yes wjb, he is going to kick that can again. He has no choice except to dismantle the entire team and start over.

But, on the bright side for all you "Trade Suh" guys, locking him up long term with 2 cap friendly years up front, should make him way more tradeable especially, if instead of a signing bonus, Suh would accept a guaranteed roster bonus in year 3, year 4, and year 5. We would probably have to agree to pay half of those bonuses if we trade him. But, there wouldn't be any accelerated signing bonus to pay for the year we trade him.


Billy, there really isn't a way to extend Suh that makes sense, and even Stafford is an extremely risky proposition. Stafford is due $41 million in the next two seasons, and he has no cause to take a pay cut. His "salary" is either primarily guaranteed or at least quasi-guaranteed. That means that Mayhew is going to have to give Staff a reasonable salary PLUS his 2013 and 2014 money "baked into" that deal.

What do you think a reasonable salary for Stafford is? I'm telling you he won't sign for less than $10 million per year, I think the real number is closer to $15 million per year. So, 7 years, $15 million per year gets him signed until he's 31, and guarantees him elite Qb money when he hasn't proven that he's earned it. That's $105 million dollar deal, WITHOUT baking into the deal his 2012 and 2013 salary. Now, he may be willing to eat his 2014 salary to make it happen, because that's not yet guaranteed, but that's only $11 million dollars. So you have to add in another $30 million dollars that Stafford is already guaranteed to the $105 million dollar deal, making it a $135 million dollar deal. What's that average? $19 million dollars per year...

How are we any better off?

There is a similar issue with Suh, which is why we can't expect to keep Staff, CJ & Suh... It's a pick any 2 proposition.


If I had to pick 2, it would clearly be Staff and CJ. If this were the case where they had to pick 2, any chance they could trade Suh to save some money?


I don't know what's going on with Suh's contract, honestly. He was only signed through 2014, but now sport trac has him signed through 2015. It would have been a wash trading Suh with his contract expiring in 2014, his guaranteed money and his salary would have offset, saved us nothing, but cost us nothing, and saved his entire $17 million the following year. That's still "something." The 2015 has a "misc bonus" of $6 million, meaning it would cost us $18 million to save his salary of $11 million, netting us a loss of $7 million to cut him, IF that "misc bonus" is guaranteed. I have no way of knowing whether that misc bonus is guaranteed, but given Mayhew's M.O., I think it is.

I advocate trading for Revis because we would essentially be eating Suh's bonus, while the Jets at Revis' bonus, and it's more or less a wash. I get that we would have a ton in "dead money," but adding Revis is only $3 mill in salary. He's a $13 million dollar player, so it's somewhat a wash. The cap relief for trading Suh really doesn't come until 2014. However, at that time, Revis and Suh would drop off the cap, saving us $23 million.

*** Edit, according to 97.1 Revis was scheduled to make $6 million in salary in 2013, but they had his bonus money and his salary wrong, he's only scheduled to make $3 million, $6 million is his 2013 bonus, and the Jets would eat that.

There is just no way the Lions would be able to move Suh to the Jets for Revis. Only way they get Revis is to move Suh some where for picks and then use those picks to get Revis from the Jets. Revis is getting put into trade talks only because the Jets are in really bad cap shape, there is no way they would take on Suh's cap number and get stuck with the same problem they have now with Revis.

I'm really interested in seeing what Suh's value would be right now. I don't think Mayhew would ever have the courage to look into it, but it really could be a chance to fix the team without falling to far back in the building process. I wish they would take a queue from the Saints and build the offense, a great offense can get by with a mediocre defense if that defense is always rested.


And how many Super Bowls have the Saints appeared in? Oh that's right. Only 1 more than the Lions.


February 2nd, 2013, 1:10 am
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
As far as Suh and 2015 go it's an option year that I believe is a player option meaning he chooses whether or not to stay. As I've said earlier I think an ideal partner would be the Cowboys. They are switching to the Tampa Two and in need of penetrating DTs. Also lets not forget Jones knows the window on that team is closing because of age and needs to win now and not wait for some rookies to develop.


February 2nd, 2013, 7:54 am
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
BillySims wrote:
And how many Super Bowls have the Saints appeared in? Oh that's right. Only 1 more than the Lions.


Oh I forgot you don't have to get to the playoffs to make the super bowl anymore. ](*,)

They have made the playoffs 4 times since 2006 and only once did they not get past the wild card. Also 3 of their playoff appearances came in a row with last season being the season to break their streak. It required them to lose 3 coaches and a QB contract dispute to stop them while they still had a better record than the Lions.

You gotta get to the airport before you can get on the plane.


February 2nd, 2013, 9:19 am
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
To say that this team should switch to a defensive-minded team at this point is ridiculous. We're three "needs" away from a really good solid offense (LT, #2 WR, and OG... only ONE premium position), and two luxury players away (OC and RB) from a great offense offense. We're at least 5 players away from having even a solid defense, and again, I don't care if our D was all all-stars... If they're on the field too much because of an anemic and inept offense, they're going to suck, period. Defense-first teams like the Ravens only get by because of players like Ray Rice that move the chains, and at least get the D some rest when the offense doesn't score. Put a great D behind this offense that can't control the ball (even when we score, sometimes we score too fast and put the D right back out there... We can't move the ball consistently on sustained drives), and it will look average at best.


February 2nd, 2013, 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
To say that this team should switch to a defensive-minded team at this point is ridiculous. We're three "needs" away from a really good solid offense (LT, #2 WR, and OG... only ONE premium position), and two luxury players away (OC and RB) from a great offense offense. We're at least 5 players away from having even a solid defense, and again, I don't care if our D was all all-stars... If they're on the field too much because of an anemic and inept offense, they're going to suck, period. Defense-first teams like the Ravens only get by because of players like Ray Rice that move the chains, and at least get the D some rest when the offense doesn't score. Put a great D behind this offense that can't control the ball (even when we score, sometimes we score too fast and put the D right back out there... We can't move the ball consistently on sustained drives), and it will look average at best.


I am not going to argue the counter position other than to say: we should have started with the defense. It is far easier to build a defense than it is to build an offense. We would have gotten a whole lot better, a whole lot quicker. And we would not own an 0-16 record.

And just how many 1st and 2nd round picks have we burned in order to get our offense just 3 players away? Far too many. And out of those picks, we should be fielding both the 1st and 2nd string NFC Pro Bowl Offense in many spots in the offense.

But, that said, I believe we will, AND SHOULD, draft a LT with our 1st round pick this year. I prefer Fisher. He is an immediate starter at LT. He is compared favorably to Joe Thomas. That will allow us to let Gos to walk, ( We would likely get at least a 3rd round comp pick for him next year ), and let us put Rief at RT where I think he will have a whole lot better career. And I bet we can move Backus to LG and Sims to RG. We should be able to get a year or two out of Backus at LG before he retires.And walla!!! The O-line is completely revamped, ( except for Raiola ), with just 1 draft pick this year.

This would let us use the rest of the draft on Defense and Special Teams.


February 2nd, 2013, 10:30 pm
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
Am i the only one who thinks putting Backus at guard is a terrible idea?

Sure, put a 305#er thats about to retire at guard and then watch us all complain of how we get no push on the interior. :roll:

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February 3rd, 2013, 6:06 am
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Post Re: Senior Bowl.
BillySims wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
To say that this team should switch to a defensive-minded team at this point is ridiculous. We're three "needs" away from a really good solid offense (LT, #2 WR, and OG... only ONE premium position), and two luxury players away (OC and RB) from a great offense offense. We're at least 5 players away from having even a solid defense, and again, I don't care if our D was all all-stars... If they're on the field too much because of an anemic and inept offense, they're going to suck, period. Defense-first teams like the Ravens only get by because of players like Ray Rice that move the chains, and at least get the D some rest when the offense doesn't score. Put a great D behind this offense that can't control the ball (even when we score, sometimes we score too fast and put the D right back out there... We can't move the ball consistently on sustained drives), and it will look average at best.


I am not going to argue the counter position other than to say: we should have started with the defense. It is far easier to build a defense than it is to build an offense. We would have gotten a whole lot better, a whole lot quicker. And we would not own an 0-16 record.

And just how many 1st and 2nd round picks have we burned in order to get our offense just 3 players away? Far too many. And out of those picks, we should be fielding both the 1st and 2nd string NFC Pro Bowl Offense in many spots in the offense.

But, that said, I believe we will, AND SHOULD, draft a LT with our 1st round pick this year. I prefer Fisher. He is an immediate starter at LT. He is compared favorably to Joe Thomas. That will allow us to let Gos to walk, ( We would likely get at least a 3rd round comp pick for him next year ), and let us put Rief at RT where I think he will have a whole lot better career. And I bet we can move Backus to LG and Sims to RG. We should be able to get a year or two out of Backus at LG before he retires.And walla!!! The O-line is completely revamped, ( except for Raiola ), with just 1 draft pick this year.

This would let us use the rest of the draft on Defense and Special Teams.


Where do you get the idea it's easier to build a defense than an offense? The defense needs to be good at almost every position to stop the modern offenses and even then they need a good offense to keep them rested. An offense can be good with nothing more than a good oline and a QB, your almost always going to need both but in today's NFL with the rules the way they are it's easier to win with a good offense than it is with a good defense.

The fact that the Lions spent so many early picks on offense and still have a bad offense at times is because the picks were bad. There have been plenty offensive players that were available at those spots that they missed on to take the boom or bust guys that they drafted.

I'm with you Kds, I don't want to see Backus at guard. He's got no push and at guard he's just going to get pushed back into Stafford all game. It'll be like having Raiola out there twice.


February 3rd, 2013, 10:51 am
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