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 Lions place Titus Young on IR 
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
Durham is aweful, there is no way they go into camp with him as the number 2. I'm positive they will sign or draft someone and I have no doubt that person will jump Durham on the depth chart the moment he joins the team.

I want the lions to look at Devery Henderson, Jerome Simpson, Domenik Hixon, and Johnny Knox. Any of those guys can give you exactly what you got from Titus and none of them should cost much at all.


February 8th, 2013, 11:15 am
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
rao wrote:
Durham is aweful, there is no way they go into camp with him as the number 2. I'm positive they will sign or draft someone and I have no doubt that person will jump Durham on the depth chart the moment he joins the team.

I want the lions to look at Devery Henderson, Jerome Simpson, Domenik Hixon, and Johnny Knox. Any of those guys can give you exactly what you got from Titus and none of them should cost much at all.


I'm with you. I'd prefer Hixon it Massoquoi, but I wouldn't mind Henderson.

I'm not convinced that Knox will ever play football again, but I'd love to have the player he used to be.


February 8th, 2013, 11:22 am
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Durham is aweful, there is no way they go into camp with him as the number 2. I'm positive they will sign or draft someone and I have no doubt that person will jump Durham on the depth chart the moment he joins the team.

I want the lions to look at Devery Henderson, Jerome Simpson, Domenik Hixon, and Johnny Knox. Any of those guys can give you exactly what you got from Titus and none of them should cost much at all.


I'm with you. I'd prefer Hixon it Massoquoi, but I wouldn't mind Henderson.

I'm not convinced that Knox will ever play football again, but I'd love to have the player he used to be.


Oh yeah, I'm very skeptical about Knox's future also. I really liked him before the back injury and I would give him a roster spot just on the off chance he can make it back.

Hixon is my favorite available right now. I'm down on Massaquoi, he is really slow and what he does with his route running is the same thing Nate and Broyles gives us. I know you don't trust Broyles health and Nate is damn sure not getting better, but I think the pair will function fine as the WR3 if you get a burner on the outside to keep the safeties back.

Forgot to add I'm assuming they keep Nate because I dont think they get enough back by cutting him, but you have been looking at the cap stuff more than I have Wjb.


February 8th, 2013, 11:39 am
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Durham is aweful, there is no way they go into camp with him as the number 2. I'm positive they will sign or draft someone and I have no doubt that person will jump Durham on the depth chart the moment he joins the team.

I want the lions to look at Devery Henderson, Jerome Simpson, Domenik Hixon, and Johnny Knox. Any of those guys can give you exactly what you got from Titus and none of them should cost much at all.


I'm with you. I'd prefer Hixon it Massoquoi, but I wouldn't mind Henderson.

I'm not convinced that Knox will ever play football again, but I'd love to have the player he used to be.


Oh yeah, I'm very skeptical about Knox's future also. I really liked him before the back injury and I would give him a roster spot just on the off chance he can make it back.

Hixon is my favorite available right now. I'm down on Massaquoi, he is really slow and what he does with his route running is the same thing Nate and Broyles gives us. I know you don't trust Broyles health and Nate is damn sure not getting better, but I think the pair will function fine as the WR3 if you get a burner on the outside to keep the safeties back.

Forgot to add I'm assuming they keep Nate because I dont think they get enough back by cutting him, but you have been looking at the cap stuff more than I have Wjb.


We would have saved a combined $7ish million (combined 2012-2013) if we would have cut him prior to restructuring his deal, now we will only save around $500k if we cut him. That's why I was so pissed about the restructure.

I agree that Nate will most likely be a Lion for 2013.

I'm somewhat ok with Mass' lack of speed. I think he'll be relatively inexpensive, and what he lacks in speed he makes up for in size. I still feel like he will command the attention of a #2 CB, and I still think he's a deep threat. I would rather have Hixon though,


February 8th, 2013, 11:53 am
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Durham is aweful, there is no way they go into camp with him as the number 2. I'm positive they will sign or draft someone and I have no doubt that person will jump Durham on the depth chart the moment he joins the team.

I want the lions to look at Devery Henderson, Jerome Simpson, Domenik Hixon, and Johnny Knox. Any of those guys can give you exactly what you got from Titus and none of them should cost much at all.


I'm with you. I'd prefer Hixon it Massoquoi, but I wouldn't mind Henderson.

I'm not convinced that Knox will ever play football again, but I'd love to have the player he used to be.


Oh yeah, I'm very skeptical about Knox's future also. I really liked him before the back injury and I would give him a roster spot just on the off chance he can make it back.

Hixon is my favorite available right now. I'm down on Massaquoi, he is really slow and what he does with his route running is the same thing Nate and Broyles gives us. I know you don't trust Broyles health and Nate is damn sure not getting better, but I think the pair will function fine as the WR3 if you get a burner on the outside to keep the safeties back.

Forgot to add I'm assuming they keep Nate because I dont think they get enough back by cutting him, but you have been looking at the cap stuff more than I have Wjb.


We would have saved a combined $7ish million (combined 2012-2013) if we would have cut him prior to restructuring his deal, now we will only save around $500k if we cut him. That's why I was so pissed about the restructure.

I agree that Nate will most likely be a Lion for 2013.

I'm somewhat ok with Mass' lack of speed. I think he'll be relatively inexpensive, and what he lacks in speed he makes up for in size. I still feel like he will command the attention of a #2 CB, and I still think he's a deep threat. I would rather have Hixon though,


Can't be too mad about it, though. Either way he'll be our #2 WR with Broyles at #3, and it's not like there are complete ballers in FA this offseason that we would've gotten with the $$ we'll be paying him. It's rich in offensive linemen, a few expensive WRs, and some good DBs. We will keep cutting, IMO get about $12 million more in space before free agency, and then we'll use about $15 million for a few offensive linemen and a DB.

My point is, either way we'd be paying MM about $2-3 million a year, so what if we're spending an extra $3-4 million on Nate for 1 year in which we will enter the season with about $1-2 million remaining in space? It won't affect us much, gives us a veteran who can still play, and momentarily solves the WR position since he's across a guy who may retire the most talented player to touch a football.

Also, Broyles is already running. He'll be back running those perfect routes in no time. We'll be fine with Nate's inflated contract.

The one I'm more mad about is Dom's. I mean, is there REALLY no replacement for him right now who we could get for like $1-2 million a year? I don't see how he lasts this offseason with us.

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February 8th, 2013, 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
Nate is actually signed through 2014. He's going to make $6.5 million this year, and $7.5 million next year, if we keep him around. Next year we will save $3.5 million by cutting him, and I hope we do.

Cutting Nate last offseason would have saved this team a total of $11 million dollars. We could have had Manningham for $2.5 last year and $4.9 next year, and we would have kept him from going to the eventual SB team. We would have paid around $2 million LESS for Manningham over the these two seasons (last year and this year), and IMO we would have had a better player, a younger player, and someone more suited to truly play the #2 WR.

That's the issue with this team, we keep paying more for less. We hold onto vets longer than we should, and we over-pay them.

Over $30 million over the 2012-2013 seasons we've squandered on nothing, and now the chickens are coming home to roost. (To put that in perspective, that's nearly ALL of CJ and Stafford's salary this year, that's disgusting.)


February 8th, 2013, 1:13 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Nate is actually signed through 2014. He's going to make $6.5 million this year, and $7.5 million next year, if we keep him around. Next year we will save $3.5 million by cutting him, and I hope we do.

Cutting Nate last offseason would have saved this team a total of $11 million dollars. We could have had Manningham for $2.5 last year and $4.9 next year, and we would have kept him from going to the eventual SB team. We would have paid around $2 million LESS for Manningham over the these two seasons (last year and this year), and IMO we would have had a better player, a younger player, and someone more suited to truly play the #2 WR.

That's the issue with this team, we keep paying more for less. We hold onto vets longer than we should, and we over-pay them.

Over $30 million over the 2012-2013 seasons we've squandered on nothing, and now the chickens are coming home to roost. (To put that in perspective, that's nearly ALL of CJ and Stafford's salary this year, that's disgusting.)


Who knows if MM was pursued by Mayhew but didn't get offered enough money? Aside from that, Manningham is barely good enough to play #2. He's very fast, but runs average routes, drops lots of easy catches, and outside of a few spectacular catches in last year's SB run wouldn't even be looked at as a #2 wide receiver.

Don't forget, Nate wasn't an awful #2 by any means. He doesn't get many looks/targets, but is a very productive #2 WR, a great vocal leader, and has said that he will take a pay-cut if necessary to stay with us. He wants to stay for the run, and the run will happen soon.

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February 8th, 2013, 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
My issue with Nate B is that he's not a #2, period. A #2 WR should be able to stretch the field and take pressure off of CJ. That's what Nate was brought in here to do, and he is flat out incapable of the task. Mario's speed and ability to beat the jam is where his value is. He is capable of stretching the field, he's a big guy, and he can occupy a safety. His biggest asset is that he needs to be accounted for, and having someone like that on our offense should help free up CJ. That's what this team needs, and that's what we've been craving.

It has been suggested that in Linehan's offense we don't need a #2, that the progression in his offense goes #1, TE, #2, #3. IMO that's bunk. Sure, that's how we've been operating for the last couple of seasons, but IMO that's more because we don't have a #2 than by design.


February 8th, 2013, 1:36 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My issue with Nate B is that he's not a #2, period. A #2 WR should be able to stretch the field and take pressure off of CJ. That's what Nate was brought in here to do, and he is flat out incapable of the task. Mario's speed and ability to beat the jam is where his value is. He is capable of stretching the field, he's a big guy, and he can occupy a safety. His biggest asset is that he needs to be accounted for, and having someone like that on our offense should help free up CJ. That's what this team needs, and that's what we've been craving.

It has been suggested that in Linehan's offense we don't need a #2, that the progression in his offense goes #1, TE, #2, #3. IMO that's bunk. Sure, that's how we've been operating for the last couple of seasons, but IMO that's more because we don't have a #2 than by design.


No argument about any of this. We shall see how it'll turn out, but at the end of the day, as I've been saying, all of this would mean NOTHING if we grab Luke Joeckel/Eric Fisher in the draft and add just 1 PROVEN, very good starter on the o-line in FA. If that's done, the offensive is complete. Nate will be perfectly fine being overpaid and a #2 WR, and we could keep running LeShoure with a good offensive line. An offensive line that could create a good, productive run game would fix all of this completely.

Fisher/Joeckel - Sims - FA guard/center who's just as good/better than Raiola but cheaper - Proven FA G - Reiff

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February 8th, 2013, 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My issue with Nate B is that he's not a #2, period. A #2 WR should be able to stretch the field and take pressure off of CJ. That's what Nate was brought in here to do, and he is flat out incapable of the task. Mario's speed and ability to beat the jam is where his value is. He is capable of stretching the field, he's a big guy, and he can occupy a safety. His biggest asset is that he needs to be accounted for, and having someone like that on our offense should help free up CJ. That's what this team needs, and that's what we've been craving.

It has been suggested that in Linehan's offense we don't need a #2, that the progression in his offense goes #1, TE, #2, #3. IMO that's bunk. Sure, that's how we've been operating for the last couple of seasons, but IMO that's more because we don't have a #2 than by design.


No argument about any of this. We shall see how it'll turn out, but at the end of the day, as I've been saying, all of this would mean NOTHING if we grab Luke Joeckel/Eric Fisher in the draft and add just 1 PROVEN, very good starter on the o-line in FA. If that's done, the offensive is complete. Nate will be perfectly fine being overpaid and a #2 WR, and we could keep running LeShoure with a good offensive line. An offensive line that could create a good, productive run game would fix all of this completely.

Fisher/Joeckel - Sims - FA guard/center who's just as good/better than Raiola but cheaper - Proven FA G - Reiff


The line alone won't make Nate a good WR2, he can't separate on deep routes and only gets his yards on short passes with YAC. With nate a safety is hardly even needed against him and that will allow the opposing defenses to float that guy CJ's way or bring him down to run support. Right now CJ is the only explosive player on the offense, so teams force the Lions to beat them using the rest of the guys and they can't do it. Look at both the 49ers and the Ravens, even with great run games both teams have multiple WRs that can bust the top of the defense. Ravens have Jacoby Jones and Torrey Smith, the 49ers have Maningham, Moss, Ginn in a pinch and even Davis at TE.

Wjb I firmly believe the offense runs that way, but I would never say the team doesn't need a WR2 because of it. I think they run something very similar to what Houston did when Andre Johnson was a bit younger and Houston's biggest need has always been someone to play across from Andre Johnson.


February 8th, 2013, 2:17 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
rao wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
My issue with Nate B is that he's not a #2, period. A #2 WR should be able to stretch the field and take pressure off of CJ. That's what Nate was brought in here to do, and he is flat out incapable of the task. Mario's speed and ability to beat the jam is where his value is. He is capable of stretching the field, he's a big guy, and he can occupy a safety. His biggest asset is that he needs to be accounted for, and having someone like that on our offense should help free up CJ. That's what this team needs, and that's what we've been craving.

It has been suggested that in Linehan's offense we don't need a #2, that the progression in his offense goes #1, TE, #2, #3. IMO that's bunk. Sure, that's how we've been operating for the last couple of seasons, but IMO that's more because we don't have a #2 than by design.


No argument about any of this. We shall see how it'll turn out, but at the end of the day, as I've been saying, all of this would mean NOTHING if we grab Luke Joeckel/Eric Fisher in the draft and add just 1 PROVEN, very good starter on the o-line in FA. If that's done, the offensive is complete. Nate will be perfectly fine being overpaid and a #2 WR, and we could keep running LeShoure with a good offensive line. An offensive line that could create a good, productive run game would fix all of this completely.

Fisher/Joeckel - Sims - FA guard/center who's just as good/better than Raiola but cheaper - Proven FA G - Reiff


The line alone won't make Nate a good WR2, he can't separate on deep routes and only gets his yards on short passes with YAC. With nate a safety is hardly even needed against him and that will allow the opposing defenses to float that guy CJ's way or bring him down to run support. Right now CJ is the only explosive player on the offense, so teams force the Lions to beat them using the rest of the guys and they can't do it. Look at both the 49ers and the Ravens, even with great run games both teams have multiple WRs that can bust the top of the defense. Ravens have Jacoby Jones and Torrey Smith, the 49ers have Maningham, Moss, Ginn in a pinch and even Davis at TE.

Wjb I firmly believe the offense runs that way, but I would never say the team doesn't need a WR2 because of it. I think they run something very similar to what Houston did when Andre Johnson was a bit younger and Houston's biggest need has always been someone to play across from Andre Johnson.


I agree with you completely.

Schotty, I don't think you understand how much the missing piece at #2 WR hurts this team. Without another deep threat the opposing FS can shift over and double CJ, and the SS can come up in run support. Part of the reason we struggle to run the ball is because we only have one guy that can go deep, and he's going to be double covered virtually every play.


February 8th, 2013, 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
If you don't want to play for the team (for whatever reason), don't turn up.

Don't show up on the field and actively harm the team's chances. That's just pathetic and completely indefensible.


That's holding out, and you don't get paid when you hold out. He had to show up if he wanted his paycheck.

He had no right to his paycheck if he was going to turn up and harm the team's chances.


February 14th, 2013, 1:37 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
UK Lion wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
If you don't want to play for the team (for whatever reason), don't turn up.

Don't show up on the field and actively harm the team's chances. That's just pathetic and completely indefensible.


That's holding out, and you don't get paid when you hold out. He had to show up if he wanted his paycheck.

He had no right to his paycheck if he was going to turn up and harm the team's chances.


BS

He had an obligation under his contract to be here. He didn't want to be here. They can't force him to "play well" they can only force him to play. He had one card, to play like crap, and he used it and got what he wanted. End of story.


February 14th, 2013, 4:46 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
If you don't want to play for the team (for whatever reason), don't turn up.

Don't show up on the field and actively harm the team's chances. That's just pathetic and completely indefensible.


That's holding out, and you don't get paid when you hold out. He had to show up if he wanted his paycheck.

He had no right to his paycheck if he was going to turn up and harm the team's chances.


BS

He had an obligation under his contract to be here. He didn't want to be here. They can't force him to "play well" they can only force him to play. He had one card, to play like crap, and he used it and got what he wanted. End of story.


LMAO! OR he could have been smart and played like a champ until the offseason and demanded a trade. What he did costed him a fortune. No way is anyone going to pay him any considerable $$ for the way he has conducted himself. If thats "playing his one card" he played it poorly!

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February 14th, 2013, 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Lions place Titus Young on IR
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
If you don't want to play for the team (for whatever reason), don't turn up.

Don't show up on the field and actively harm the team's chances. That's just pathetic and completely indefensible.


That's holding out, and you don't get paid when you hold out. He had to show up if he wanted his paycheck.

He had no right to his paycheck if he was going to turn up and harm the team's chances.


BS

He had an obligation under his contract to be here. He didn't want to be here. They can't force him to "play well" they can only force him to play. He had one card, to play like crap, and he used it and got what he wanted. End of story.


LMAO! OR he could have been smart and played like a champ until the offseason and demanded a trade. What he did costed him a fortune. No way is anyone going to pay him any considerable $$ for the way he has conducted himself. If thats "playing his one card" he played it poorly!


RJ, you don't get it. He was stuck on a team that wasn't using him properly, and he was only going to make $550k next season, and $650k the following season. We're in cap hell, going nowhere, and constantly "rebuilding." He's much better off in St. Louis.

He's going to make the same given his actions, and still, if he plays well for the next two seasons his time in Det. will be forgotten, especially given that we'll probably be 6-10 in 2014.


February 14th, 2013, 6:40 pm
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