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 Off-Season Moves 
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
Yeah I saw that number. Twice what I'd pay for him and even then it'd be too much.


February 26th, 2013, 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
I hope they stay away from both of them. Bush is amazing in the open field but he just seems to find a reason to be in the trainer's room. As far as Smith is concerned he is like the Shaun Rogers of CBs, amazing in short stretches and then completely disappears. It almost feels like he knows he has skills so he doesn't go out and give it his all and that really scares me when you think of what will happen once he gets his pay day.


February 26th, 2013, 10:45 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
$5M/yr is too much. That contract would have to be incredibly team friendly, back loaded and with small guaranteed money or they should can Mayhew before he does anymore long term financial damage. Maybe Xanders will help teach Mayhew how to avoid signing players to bad overinflated contracts while he's fixing the scouting.


February 26th, 2013, 11:02 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


February 26th, 2013, 11:57 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
BillySims wrote:
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


I think Schwartz and Mayhew would prefer to not have the first pick in the draft next year. There are 10-11 starting spots that need to be filled 8 of which are on defense. The coaching staff has yet to develop any young guys at a single position. They can't field a team that will let them keep their jobs without signing free agents.


February 27th, 2013, 10:42 am
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


I think Schwartz and Mayhew would prefer to not have the first pick in the draft next year. There are 10-11 starting spots that need to be filled 8 of which are on defense. The coaching staff has yet to develop any young guys at a single position. They can't field a team that will let them keep their jobs without signing free agents.


I'm sorry, but that's just an overreaction to last year's issues.

I know a lot of these people are free agents and/or had injury issues, but how's this:

Drafted by Lions:
[Good/Great Players]
Avril--one of the top 5 free agents this offseason because of how we developed him
Suh--arguably the best DT in the game
Fairley--came on strong last season
Sammie Lee Hill--took a small school guy and made him a legit starting DT
Delmas--haunted by injuries but a very good safety when he's healthy

[Middle of the road guys]
Levy--not spectacular by any means but a solid starter
Spievey--decent safety before his concussion issues
Willie Young--flashed early but had a down year last year (like everybody). Could still make an impact as a 7th rounder.

FA/Trades:
Houston--was considered a bust before he got here, now a legit starting corner
C. Williams--bounced back after some disappointing years w/ the Browns
LoJack --same as Houston as being seen as a bust, now a legit DE

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February 27th, 2013, 11:17 am
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
thelomasbrowns wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


I think Schwartz and Mayhew would prefer to not have the first pick in the draft next year. There are 10-11 starting spots that need to be filled 8 of which are on defense. The coaching staff has yet to develop any young guys at a single position. They can't field a team that will let them keep their jobs without signing free agents.


I'm sorry, but that's just an overreaction to last year's issues.

I know a lot of these people are free agents and/or had injury issues, but how's this:

Drafted by Lions:
[Good/Great Players]
Avril--one of the top 5 free agents this offseason because of how we developed him
Suh--arguably the best DT in the game
Fairley--came on strong last season
Sammie Lee Hill--took a small school guy and made him a legit starting DT
Delmas--haunted by injuries but a very good safety when he's healthy

[Middle of the road guys]
Levy--not spectacular by any means but a solid starter
Spievey--decent safety before his concussion issues
Willie Young--flashed early but had a down year last year (like everybody). Could still make an impact as a 7th rounder.

FA/Trades:
Houston--was considered a bust before he got here, now a legit starting corner
C. Williams--bounced back after some disappointing years w/ the Browns
LoJack --same as Houston as being seen as a bust, now a legit DE


Not to mention Matt Stafford, I hear that guy is pretty OK.
Calivin Johnson Might just be good enough to make a pro bowl some day.
Cheerios may not be the best RT in the league but anyone not seeing improvement out of him in the past 2 years, isnt watching.
Pett has way too many drops, but would start on 90% of of the league.


I agree with TLB, it's kinda extreme to say no one has been developed. thats an emotional reaction, not a realistic one.

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February 27th, 2013, 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
regularjoe12 wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


I think Schwartz and Mayhew would prefer to not have the first pick in the draft next year. There are 10-11 starting spots that need to be filled 8 of which are on defense. The coaching staff has yet to develop any young guys at a single position. They can't field a team that will let them keep their jobs without signing free agents.


I'm sorry, but that's just an overreaction to last year's issues.

I know a lot of these people are free agents and/or had injury issues, but how's this:

Drafted by Lions:
[Good/Great Players]
Avril--one of the top 5 free agents this offseason because of how we developed him
Suh--arguably the best DT in the game
Fairley--came on strong last season
Sammie Lee Hill--took a small school guy and made him a legit starting DT
Delmas--haunted by injuries but a very good safety when he's healthy

[Middle of the road guys]
Levy--not spectacular by any means but a solid starter
Spievey--decent safety before his concussion issues
Willie Young--flashed early but had a down year last year (like everybody). Could still make an impact as a 7th rounder.

FA/Trades:
Houston--was considered a bust before he got here, now a legit starting corner
C. Williams--bounced back after some disappointing years w/ the Browns
LoJack --same as Houston as being seen as a bust, now a legit DE


Not to mention Matt Stafford, I hear that guy is pretty OK.
Calivin Johnson Might just be good enough to make a pro bowl some day.
Cheerios may not be the best RT in the league but anyone not seeing improvement out of him in the past 2 years, isnt watching.
Pett has way too many drops, but would start on 90% of of the league.


I agree with TLB, it's kinda extreme to say no one has been developed. thats an emotional reaction, not a realistic one.


Yeah, I was only talking defense. Plenty of examples on offense as well. I know the NFL is a 'what have you done for me lately?' proposition, but let's try to be reasonable.

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February 27th, 2013, 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
thelomasbrowns wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


I think Schwartz and Mayhew would prefer to not have the first pick in the draft next year. There are 10-11 starting spots that need to be filled 8 of which are on defense. The coaching staff has yet to develop any young guys at a single position. They can't field a team that will let them keep their jobs without signing free agents.


I'm sorry, but that's just an overreaction to last year's issues.

I know a lot of these people are free agents and/or had injury issues, but how's this:

Drafted by Lions:
[Good/Great Players]
Avril--one of the top 5 free agents this offseason because of how we developed him
Suh--arguably the best DT in the game
Fairley--came on strong last season
Sammie Lee Hill--took a small school guy and made him a legit starting DT
Delmas--haunted by injuries but a very good safety when he's healthy

[Middle of the road guys]
Levy--not spectacular by any means but a solid starter
Spievey--decent safety before his concussion issues
Willie Young--flashed early but had a down year last year (like everybody). Could still make an impact as a 7th rounder.

FA/Trades:
Houston--was considered a bust before he got here, now a legit starting corner
C. Williams--bounced back after some disappointing years w/ the Browns
LoJack --same as Houston as being seen as a bust, now a legit DE


It's not an over reaction. I'll give you Sammie Lee Hill, but none of the others have developed.

Avril - still can't play the run is a straight one dimensional player and his stat increase coincides with the addition of Suh in the middle.
Suh - Is the same player he's been from the day he started and I think he is now what he always will be. There is no development to be had.
Fairley - Is still an unknown, he was injured his first season and all we have is last season as a benchmark, we have to wait until after this season to see if he has made any improvements to his game.
Delmas - Same exact player since the day he was drafted. Takes bad angles, over runs plays, and goes for the bit hit over wrapping up for the tackle. I don't think that is entirely their fault though because how can he learn if he's never on the field.

Now 1st rd picks are also not what I'm talking about because your 1st rd guy shouldn't need much help if your picking right. The middle round guys have done nothing. Not only have these Middle round guys done nothing most of them are either gone or injured every year.

Levy - Is the worse starting LB out of the 3 starters and not even a lock to get resigned.
Spievey - The Lions have been trying to find a replacement for him every year he's played.
Willie Young - hasn't developed yet, he still only shows flashes and isn't a primary backup. When the guy actually puts some numbers down then I'll give them credit.

As for the FAs Houston and Lojack are the same guys they were when they signed them. Houston was never a bust, he just wasn't a shut down corner and he still doesn't make big plays. Lojacks stats in DET look no different than his stats in SEA and he wasn't able to take a starting spot from an obviously over the hill KVB. Williams was a 4-3 DT playing in a 3-4 and that's why he was playing bad before coming to DET. The only thing that improved Williams was the scheme change he got by coming to DET.

There isn't a single back-up they have drafted or signed that could be confidently moved to a starting position or that couldn't be replaced by a cheap mid level FA.


February 27th, 2013, 1:15 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
rao wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


I think Schwartz and Mayhew would prefer to not have the first pick in the draft next year. There are 10-11 starting spots that need to be filled 8 of which are on defense. The coaching staff has yet to develop any young guys at a single position. They can't field a team that will let them keep their jobs without signing free agents.


I'm sorry, but that's just an overreaction to last year's issues.

I know a lot of these people are free agents and/or had injury issues, but how's this:

Drafted by Lions:
[Good/Great Players]
Avril--one of the top 5 free agents this offseason because of how we developed him
Suh--arguably the best DT in the game
Fairley--came on strong last season
Sammie Lee Hill--took a small school guy and made him a legit starting DT
Delmas--haunted by injuries but a very good safety when he's healthy

[Middle of the road guys]
Levy--not spectacular by any means but a solid starter
Spievey--decent safety before his concussion issues
Willie Young--flashed early but had a down year last year (like everybody). Could still make an impact as a 7th rounder.

FA/Trades:
Houston--was considered a bust before he got here, now a legit starting corner
C. Williams--bounced back after some disappointing years w/ the Browns
LoJack --same as Houston as being seen as a bust, now a legit DE


It's not an over reaction. I'll give you Sammie Lee Hill, but none of the others have developed.

Avril - still can't play the run is a straight one dimensional player and his stat increase coincides with the addition of Suh in the middle.
Suh - Is the same player he's been from the day he started and I think he is now what he always will be. There is no development to be had.
Fairley - Is still an unknown, he was injured his first season and all we have is last season as a benchmark, we have to wait until after this season to see if he has made any improvements to his game.
Delmas - Same exact player since the day he was drafted. Takes bad angles, over runs plays, and goes for the bit hit over wrapping up for the tackle. I don't think that is entirely their fault though because how can he learn if he's never on the field.

Now 1st rd picks are also not what I'm talking about because your 1st rd guy shouldn't need much help if your picking right. The middle round guys have done nothing. Not only have these Middle round guys done nothing most of them are either gone or injured every year.

Levy - Is the worse starting LB out of the 3 starters and not even a lock to get resigned.
Spievey - The Lions have been trying to find a replacement for him every year he's played.
Willie Young - hasn't developed yet, he still only shows flashes and isn't a primary backup. When the guy actually puts some numbers down then I'll give them credit.

As for the FAs Houston and Lojack are the same guys they were when they signed them. Houston was never a bust, he just wasn't a shut down corner and he still doesn't make big plays. Lojacks stats in DET look no different than his stats in SEA and he wasn't able to take a starting spot from an obviously over the hill KVB. Williams was a 4-3 DT playing in a 3-4 and that's why he was playing bad before coming to DET. The only thing that improved Williams was the scheme change he got by coming to DET.

There isn't a single back-up they have drafted or signed that could be confidently moved to a starting position or that couldn't be replaced by a cheap mid level FA.


I'd like to see some stats that go beyond your impressions. You could make the argument for any losing team that their people have progressed/developed. Would you have made the same argument after 2011? Probably not.

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February 27th, 2013, 2:37 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
rao wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
rao wrote:
BillySims wrote:
I personally, don't want the Lions to sign any free agents this year. Fill positions through the draft and Undrafted FA's for back up spots. I want all the comp picks from our FA's for next years draft. While we can't trade them, we can trade our regular draft picks. Any way you slice it, we are going to miss out on at least 1 of our big needs this year. And all those comp picks will allow us to use our regular picks to trade around to get the guy we couldn't get this year.


I think Schwartz and Mayhew would prefer to not have the first pick in the draft next year. There are 10-11 starting spots that need to be filled 8 of which are on defense. The coaching staff has yet to develop any young guys at a single position. They can't field a team that will let them keep their jobs without signing free agents.


I'm sorry, but that's just an overreaction to last year's issues.

I know a lot of these people are free agents and/or had injury issues, but how's this:

Drafted by Lions:
[Good/Great Players]
Avril--one of the top 5 free agents this offseason because of how we developed him
Suh--arguably the best DT in the game
Fairley--came on strong last season
Sammie Lee Hill--took a small school guy and made him a legit starting DT
Delmas--haunted by injuries but a very good safety when he's healthy

[Middle of the road guys]
Levy--not spectacular by any means but a solid starter
Spievey--decent safety before his concussion issues
Willie Young--flashed early but had a down year last year (like everybody). Could still make an impact as a 7th rounder.

FA/Trades:
Houston--was considered a bust before he got here, now a legit starting corner
C. Williams--bounced back after some disappointing years w/ the Browns
LoJack --same as Houston as being seen as a bust, now a legit DE


It's not an over reaction. I'll give you Sammie Lee Hill, but none of the others have developed.

Avril - still can't play the run is a straight one dimensional player and his stat increase coincides with the addition of Suh in the middle.
Suh - Is the same player he's been from the day he started and I think he is now what he always will be. There is no development to be had.
Fairley - Is still an unknown, he was injured his first season and all we have is last season as a benchmark, we have to wait until after this season to see if he has made any improvements to his game.
Delmas - Same exact player since the day he was drafted. Takes bad angles, over runs plays, and goes for the bit hit over wrapping up for the tackle. I don't think that is entirely their fault though because how can he learn if he's never on the field.

Now 1st rd picks are also not what I'm talking about because your 1st rd guy shouldn't need much help if your picking right. The middle round guys have done nothing. Not only have these Middle round guys done nothing most of them are either gone or injured every year.

Levy - Is the worse starting LB out of the 3 starters and not even a lock to get resigned.
Spievey - The Lions have been trying to find a replacement for him every year he's played.
Willie Young - hasn't developed yet, he still only shows flashes and isn't a primary backup. When the guy actually puts some numbers down then I'll give them credit.

As for the FAs Houston and Lojack are the same guys they were when they signed them. Houston was never a bust, he just wasn't a shut down corner and he still doesn't make big plays. Lojacks stats in DET look no different than his stats in SEA and he wasn't able to take a starting spot from an obviously over the hill KVB. Williams was a 4-3 DT playing in a 3-4 and that's why he was playing bad before coming to DET. The only thing that improved Williams was the scheme change he got by coming to DET.

There isn't a single back-up they have drafted or signed that could be confidently moved to a starting position or that couldn't be replaced by a cheap mid level FA.


I agree completely. IMO you largely don't "develop" your first round draft picks. They ARE talented, proven players. You don't add much to their game. It's the 2nd-7th rounds that need "coaching up" and "developing," and we fail miserably in that regard, and have for years.

FWIW, SLH was likely a steal and a good draft pick, but he plays DT, probably the position on the team that needs the LEAST amount of "coaching up."

Look at our LBs, CBs, FSs, SSs, that other teams REGULARLY find starters in rounds 2-4 in. All of those guys suck on our team.


February 27th, 2013, 2:47 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
I honestly don't see how anyone could feel they are doing a good job developing talent. I don't think there is a player other than SLH that even plays better than what was expected of them. I will say they have done an ok job getting their FAs and 1st rd guys to not play worse than before they picked them up.

Here's the way I look at it, I look at the team and see if there is any player on the roster that another team would trade a higher pick for the player than was used on him when he was drafted. When I do that I can't find one except perhaps Avril and I see him as the one guy that will go somewhere else and instantly drop in production.


February 27th, 2013, 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
In other news:

Quote:
Lions create $5.5 million in cap space thanks to Nate Burleson, Dominic Raiola
http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2013/2/27 ... nic-raiola
By Sean Yuille on Feb 27, 2:41p

The Detroit Lions created $5.5 million in cap room by restructuring the contracts of wide receiver Nate Burleson and center Dominic Raiola, according to Dave Birkett. Their deals were restructured earlier this month in an effort to give the Lions more flexibility with the salary cap, and $5.5 million is a pretty significant savings.

Raiola's new base salary for 2013 is close to the veteran's minimum, but it turns out it's a little higher than originally reported. Birkett reports that Raiola now has a base salary of $1 million, and his cap number is $3.012 million. His salary is down from $4.05 million and his cap number is down from $6.06 million.

Burleson now has a base salary of $2 million for 2013. Before restructuring his deal, he was set to earn $4.5 million. This pay cut takes his cap number from $6.531 million down to $4.031 million.

With the extra $5.5 million, Birkett has the Lions at a total of $113.9 million right now. If the salary cap ends up being around $123 million, this gives them about $9 million to work with. They will have to set some of that aside for restricted free agent tenders and the draft, but that's a pretty good amount of space considering they were over the cap at the start of the month and they haven't even gotten Matthew Stafford a new deal yet.

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February 27th, 2013, 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
rao wrote:
I honestly don't see how anyone could feel they are doing a good job developing talent. I don't think there is a player other than SLH that even plays better than what was expected of them. I will say they have done an ok job getting their FAs and 1st rd guys to not play worse than before they picked them up.

Here's the way I look at it, I look at the team and see if there is any player on the roster that another team would trade a higher pick for the player than was used on him when he was drafted. When I do that I can't find one except perhaps Avril and I see him as the one guy that will go somewhere else and instantly drop in production.


Agree to disagree, I guess. The 49ers just got a 2nd for Alex Smith, whom they drafted 1st overall. Does that mean they didn't develop him? I don't know anybody who would agree with that. With the exception of a few hyped players ever year, draft picks are like new cars--they lose a part of their value as soon as you take them off the lot.

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February 27th, 2013, 4:06 pm
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Post Re: Off-Season Moves
rao wrote:
I honestly don't see how anyone could feel they are doing a good job developing talent. I don't think there is a player other than SLH that even plays better than what was expected of them. I will say they have done an ok job getting their FAs and 1st rd guys to not play worse than before they picked them up.

Here's the way I look at it, I look at the team and see if there is any player on the roster that another team would trade a higher pick for the player than was used on him when he was drafted. When I do that I can't find one except perhaps Avril and I see him as the one guy that will go somewhere else and instantly drop in production.


Agreed on All points.


February 27th, 2013, 4:09 pm
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