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 Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine 
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
wjb21ndtown wrote:
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
I wouldn't trust Porter until he's medically cleared especially with seizures and whatever else he had going on. Even if he was healthy, the two rookies on the Broncos surpassed him quickly. Why can't we ever get talent like that in the draft...


The two rookies never surpassed him. He was playing great football until he had his seizure, and fwiw, I think we should be looking at him not as our #1, but our #2. He would be the best #2 CB this team has had in years, maybe even decade(s). He was medically cleared to play last year. His seizures may have been caused from a lack of oxygen playing in Denver.


First off you're right he was cleared to play, but never returned to game action. He started 4 of 5 games he played in at the beginning of the season and of those the only one I'd consider "great" was the first of the year.

I mistakenly called the two corners who surpassed him rookies. Chris Harris wasn't actually a rookie, he was an UDFA in 2011 who saw limited playing time until this season. Tony Carter was the other guy I was thinking of and he apparently has been in the league since 2009. He again didn't see much game action until this season and was also an UDFA

Not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade for us, but a) who wouldn't be and b) medical issues with unknown causes kinda scare me away from a player


February 27th, 2013, 1:12 am
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
I was a big proponent of drafting Porter out of college. It now I wouldn't want him even if cost less than Houston. He has been battling injuries since his days in college and except for a few highlight plays has played like a very good nickel or at best an okay #2. If they spend any money on a CB besides Houston I hope it's on Lewis from Pittsburgh.


February 27th, 2013, 7:23 am
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
Pretty great:

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February 27th, 2013, 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
IMO Lewis is going to cost more than Porter, and I think he ends up staying in Pitt.

I think we can get Porter for around $2mill at a 1 year deal. He made $2.5 last year, and sat most the year. Denver wanted to keep him around and he was a cheap insurance policy. They never needed him, so they never played him. That said, he played very well before sitting.

We could "fix" our CB situation for $2 million dollars, and not have it cost us a first round draft pick. I don't see why we wouldn't do that.


February 27th, 2013, 2:38 pm
Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm a little sketchy of putting a rookie LT out there even if they might eventually be Orlando Pace caliber LTs. They are going to be going against DEs and OLBs that are far superior than what they faced in college as well as much more sophisticated defensive schemes. I'm all for replacing Backus but I have a bad feeling they are going to ride that pony one more season. I'd much rather see them get their new LT in FA and think they can get Beatty for a reasonable price if the Giants decide they need to spend their money on other needs.

As far as CB goes I wouldn't be upset with Milliner if they stayed at #5 but there are a number of physical CBs in this draft that are going to be very good NFL CBs.


Ok, so we "ride that pony one more year" and then what? Then start a rookie? We're not making the playoffs next year. No way, no how... So why not get the LT this year, so we don't have to trot a rookie LT out there next season, when there's the potential to field a real team? Why not take the LT this year and have both he AND Backus fill the role? Why not have a healthy Jeff Backus mentor and teach our rookie, and have the rookie take over for Backus around week 4, after he's had the benefit of coaching and training for 8+ weeks?

To me, your scenario or "worries" are exactly why we SHOULD be drafting an LT this year, not reasons why we shouldn't...


February 27th, 2013, 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm a little sketchy of putting a rookie LT out there even if they might eventually be Orlando Pace caliber LTs. They are going to be going against DEs and OLBs that are far superior than what they faced in college as well as much more sophisticated defensive schemes. I'm all for replacing Backus but I have a bad feeling they are going to ride that pony one more season. I'd much rather see them get their new LT in FA and think they can get Beatty for a reasonable price if the Giants decide they need to spend their money on other needs.

As far as CB goes I wouldn't be upset with Milliner if they stayed at #5 but there are a number of physical CBs in this draft that are going to be very good NFL CBs.


Ok, so we "ride that pony one more year" and then what? Then start a rookie? We're not making the playoffs next year. No way, no how... So why not get the LT this year, so we don't have to trot a rookie LT out there next season, when there's the potential to field a real team? Why not take the LT this year and have both he AND Backus fill the role? Why not have a healthy Jeff Backus mentor and teach our rookie, and have the rookie take over for Backus around week 4, after he's had the benefit of coaching and training for 8+ weeks?

To me, your scenario or "worries" are exactly why we SHOULD be drafting an LT this year, not reasons why we shouldn't...

I understand your point WJB, and I agree with it. But assuming Fisher will be gone, and I think he will be, u don't really want to spend the fifth overall pick on Land Johnson do u?

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February 27th, 2013, 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm a little sketchy of putting a rookie LT out there even if they might eventually be Orlando Pace caliber LTs. They are going to be going against DEs and OLBs that are far superior than what they faced in college as well as much more sophisticated defensive schemes. I'm all for replacing Backus but I have a bad feeling they are going to ride that pony one more season. I'd much rather see them get their new LT in FA and think they can get Beatty for a reasonable price if the Giants decide they need to spend their money on other needs.

As far as CB goes I wouldn't be upset with Milliner if they stayed at #5 but there are a number of physical CBs in this draft that are going to be very good NFL CBs.


Ok, so we "ride that pony one more year" and then what? Then start a rookie? We're not making the playoffs next year. No way, no how... So why not get the LT this year, so we don't have to trot a rookie LT out there next season, when there's the potential to field a real team? Why not take the LT this year and have both he AND Backus fill the role? Why not have a healthy Jeff Backus mentor and teach our rookie, and have the rookie take over for Backus around week 4, after he's had the benefit of coaching and training for 8+ weeks?

To me, your scenario or "worries" are exactly why we SHOULD be drafting an LT this year, not reasons why we shouldn't...

I understand your point WJB, and I agree with it. But assuming Fisher will be gone, and I think he will be, u don't really want to spend the fifth overall pick on Land Johnson do u?


IMO our off-season plan has to include a mechanism to replace Backus, period. LT is the 2nd most important position on this team. Whether it's by FA, or in the draft, we need our LT of the future THIS YEAR. We really should have gotten him last year or the year prior. To their credit, I think that was the plan for Reiff, but IMO he's proven incapable of handling the task. Maybe he's added a bunch of strength in the offseason, and he's now ready, but I don't buy it. Further, not only don't I buy it, but if that is the plan, then we have to sign or draft our future RT.

I would honestly see what it's going to cost to move up to #3 to guaranty Fisher. Otherwise I would look at moving down a spot or two (no lower than 8) and trying to land Johnson. If there's any doubt whatsoever that we miss out on Johnson then we stay put and take him. We can't afford a tier 2 LT, there are three tier 1 LTs available. We need one of them.


February 27th, 2013, 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
wjb21ndtown wrote:
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm a little sketchy of putting a rookie LT out there even if they might eventually be Orlando Pace caliber LTs. They are going to be going against DEs and OLBs that are far superior than what they faced in college as well as much more sophisticated defensive schemes. I'm all for replacing Backus but I have a bad feeling they are going to ride that pony one more season. I'd much rather see them get their new LT in FA and think they can get Beatty for a reasonable price if the Giants decide they need to spend their money on other needs.

As far as CB goes I wouldn't be upset with Milliner if they stayed at #5 but there are a number of physical CBs in this draft that are going to be very good NFL CBs.


Ok, so we "ride that pony one more year" and then what? Then start a rookie? We're not making the playoffs next year. No way, no how... So why not get the LT this year, so we don't have to trot a rookie LT out there next season, when there's the potential to field a real team? Why not take the LT this year and have both he AND Backus fill the role? Why not have a healthy Jeff Backus mentor and teach our rookie, and have the rookie take over for Backus around week 4, after he's had the benefit of coaching and training for 8+ weeks?

To me, your scenario or "worries" are exactly why we SHOULD be drafting an LT this year, not reasons why we shouldn't...

I understand your point WJB, and I agree with it. But assuming Fisher will be gone, and I think he will be, u don't really want to spend the fifth overall pick on Land Johnson do u?


IMO our off-season plan has to include a mechanism to replace Backus, period. LT is the 2nd most important position on this team. Whether it's by FA, or in the draft, we need our LT of the future THIS YEAR. We really should have gotten him last year or the year prior. To their credit, I think that was the plan for Reiff, but IMO he's proven incapable of handling the task. Maybe he's added a bunch of strength in the offseason, and he's now ready, but I don't buy it. Further, not only don't I buy it, but if that is the plan, then we have to sign or draft our future RT.

I would honestly see what it's going to cost to move up to #3 to guaranty Fisher. Otherwise I would look at moving down a spot or two (no lower than 8) and trying to land Johnson. If there's any doubt whatsoever that we miss out on Johnson then we stay put and take him. We can't afford a tier 2 LT, there are three tier 1 LTs available. We need one of them.

I 100% agree that we need to explore the possibility of trading up to get Fisher. For a LT, is the price ever really too high?

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February 27th, 2013, 6:22 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
I'm all for them replacing Backus and have been for quite some time, but I think FA is the better way to go or trade back and look at Johnson at around #10 if he's still there. Like I said I'm not sure they are comfortable putting a rookie in there to block Stafford's blindside. So it would be foolish to use a top five pick on a LT that is going to sit behind Backus even if for just a year when Johnson doesn't grade that far behind Joeckel and Fisher. Lets not forget Fisher and Johnson were both at best mid 1st round guys before the Senior Bowl.

As far as FA goes I think it's goings to be favorable for teams more than the players with the amount of FAs and the depth in the draft at the position. I'm a big fan of Beatty and he was one of the better LTs in the league this past season. The Giants might be even worse off than the Lions when it comes to the cap so he isn't a given to be re-signd and will likely test free agency. If he cuts down on his penalties (think he around 10 this past season) he will be a steal with a deal in the $6-7 million per year range. Let's say they sign him to a 6 year $42 million deal with a $12 million signing bonus. If they were to base salary him this year at $1 million plus his $2 million prorated signing bonus that would be one of the better LTs in the league only on the books in 2013 for $3 million. If they only free up $6 million with a Stafford extension they will have roughly $15 million to spend on rookies and FAs. In this scenario they would have a top LT and enough money to get at least one more if not two FAs to fill needs.


February 27th, 2013, 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm all for them replacing Backus and have been for quite some time, but I think FA is the better way to go or trade back and look at Johnson at around #10 if he's still there. Like I said I'm not sure they are comfortable putting a rookie in there to block Stafford's blindside. So it would be foolish to use a top five pick on a LT that is going to sit behind Backus even if for just a year when Johnson doesn't grade that far behind Joeckel and Fisher. Lets not forget Fisher and Johnson were both at best mid 1st round guys before the Senior Bowl.

As far as FA goes I think it's goings to be favorable for teams more than the players with the amount of FAs and the depth in the draft at the position. I'm a big fan of Beatty and he was one of the better LTs in the league this past season. The Giants might be even worse off than the Lions when it comes to the cap so he isn't a given to be re-signd and will likely test free agency. If he cuts down on his penalties (think he around 10 this past season) he will be a steal with a deal in the $6-7 million per year range. Let's say they sign him to a 6 year $42 million deal with a $12 million signing bonus. If they were to base salary him this year at $1 million plus his $2 million prorated signing bonus that would be one of the better LTs in the league only on the books in 2013 for $3 million. If they only free up $6 million with a Stafford extension they will have roughly $15 million to spend on rookies and FAs. In this scenario they would have a top LT and enough money to get at least one more if not two FAs to fill needs.


Beatty was just re-signed.

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February 27th, 2013, 6:28 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm all for them replacing Backus and have been for quite some time, but I think FA is the better way to go or trade back and look at Johnson at around #10 if he's still there. Like I said I'm not sure they are comfortable putting a rookie in there to block Stafford's blindside. So it would be foolish to use a top five pick on a LT that is going to sit behind Backus even if for just a year when Johnson doesn't grade that far behind Joeckel and Fisher. Lets not forget Fisher and Johnson were both at best mid 1st round guys before the Senior Bowl.

As far as FA goes I think it's goings to be favorable for teams more than the players with the amount of FAs and the depth in the draft at the position. I'm a big fan of Beatty and he was one of the better LTs in the league this past season. The Giants might be even worse off than the Lions when it comes to the cap so he isn't a given to be re-signd and will likely test free agency. If he cuts down on his penalties (think he around 10 this past season) he will be a steal with a deal in the $6-7 million per year range. Let's say they sign him to a 6 year $42 million deal with a $12 million signing bonus. If they were to base salary him this year at $1 million plus his $2 million prorated signing bonus that would be one of the better LTs in the league only on the books in 2013 for $3 million. If they only free up $6 million with a Stafford extension they will have roughly $15 million to spend on rookies and FAs. In this scenario they would have a top LT and enough money to get at least one more if not two FAs to fill needs.



It is darned near impossible to find a premier LT in free agency iunless your willing to VASTLY overpay.

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February 27th, 2013, 6:44 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
regularjoe12 wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm all for them replacing Backus and have been for quite some time, but I think FA is the better way to go or trade back and look at Johnson at around #10 if he's still there. Like I said I'm not sure they are comfortable putting a rookie in there to block Stafford's blindside. So it would be foolish to use a top five pick on a LT that is going to sit behind Backus even if for just a year when Johnson doesn't grade that far behind Joeckel and Fisher. Lets not forget Fisher and Johnson were both at best mid 1st round guys before the Senior Bowl.

As far as FA goes I think it's goings to be favorable for teams more than the players with the amount of FAs and the depth in the draft at the position. I'm a big fan of Beatty and he was one of the better LTs in the league this past season. The Giants might be even worse off than the Lions when it comes to the cap so he isn't a given to be re-signd and will likely test free agency. If he cuts down on his penalties (think he around 10 this past season) he will be a steal with a deal in the $6-7 million per year range. Let's say they sign him to a 6 year $42 million deal with a $12 million signing bonus. If they were to base salary him this year at $1 million plus his $2 million prorated signing bonus that would be one of the better LTs in the league only on the books in 2013 for $3 million. If they only free up $6 million with a Stafford extension they will have roughly $15 million to spend on rookies and FAs. In this scenario they would have a top LT and enough money to get at least one more if not two FAs to fill needs.



It is darned near impossible to find a premier LT in free agency iunless your willing to VASTLY overpay.


Or take a very average LT, and still over-pay them. There's a reason that team's do not let their premier LTs walk away.


February 27th, 2013, 7:23 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm all for them replacing Backus and have been for quite some time, but I think FA is the better way to go or trade back and look at Johnson at around #10 if he's still there. Like I said I'm not sure they are comfortable putting a rookie in there to block Stafford's blindside. So it would be foolish to use a top five pick on a LT that is going to sit behind Backus even if for just a year when Johnson doesn't grade that far behind Joeckel and Fisher. Lets not forget Fisher and Johnson were both at best mid 1st round guys before the Senior Bowl.

As far as FA goes I think it's goings to be favorable for teams more than the players with the amount of FAs and the depth in the draft at the position. I'm a big fan of Beatty and he was one of the better LTs in the league this past season. The Giants might be even worse off than the Lions when it comes to the cap so he isn't a given to be re-signd and will likely test free agency. If he cuts down on his penalties (think he around 10 this past season) he will be a steal with a deal in the $6-7 million per year range. Let's say they sign him to a 6 year $42 million deal with a $12 million signing bonus. If they were to base salary him this year at $1 million plus his $2 million prorated signing bonus that would be one of the better LTs in the league only on the books in 2013 for $3 million. If they only free up $6 million with a Stafford extension they will have roughly $15 million to spend on rookies and FAs. In this scenario they would have a top LT and enough money to get at least one more if not two FAs to fill needs.



It is darned near impossible to find a premier LT in free agency iunless your willing to VASTLY overpay.


Or take a very average LT, and still over-pay them. There's a reason that team's do not let their premier LTs walk away.



Exactly. How bout since Mayhew likes trading up so much for offensive players, he trades up for a player (Fisher) that actually makes sense.

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February 27th, 2013, 8:29 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
Well that's a bummer about Beattfy but he wasn't overpaid by any means. He got about what I thought he'd get but in one less year and $1million less in guaranteed money, I figured he would get $12 million to sign and eight in other bonuses. I would still rather have them sign an Albert who will get a similar contract to Beatty with a bigger chunk of guaranteed money. I'd even go as far as looking at Long if he checked out and was willing to take a portion of his deal in incentives based on percentage of snaps and performance.

As far as Top 5 rookies at the LT position what's to say they won't be a Smith or Gallery in the NFL? I'm all for Fisher if he's there at #5 or even Johnson but to trade up and give away much needed picks would be foolish in my opinion. They should either sit and wait for Fisher or Johnson or even trade back and see if Johnson is still there if they are going to draft the future LT. If the pick is going to sit they can wait and grab Watson or Armstead and let one of them develop for a season.


February 27th, 2013, 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Milliner to undergo surgery after the combine
kdsberman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
sweetd20 wrote:
I'm a little sketchy of putting a rookie LT out there even if they might eventually be Orlando Pace caliber LTs. They are going to be going against DEs and OLBs that are far superior than what they faced in college as well as much more sophisticated defensive schemes. I'm all for replacing Backus but I have a bad feeling they are going to ride that pony one more season. I'd much rather see them get their new LT in FA and think they can get Beatty for a reasonable price if the Giants decide they need to spend their money on other needs.

As far as CB goes I wouldn't be upset with Milliner if they stayed at #5 but there are a number of physical CBs in this draft that are going to be very good NFL CBs.


Ok, so we "ride that pony one more year" and then what? Then start a rookie? We're not making the playoffs next year. No way, no how... So why not get the LT this year, so we don't have to trot a rookie LT out there next season, when there's the potential to field a real team? Why not take the LT this year and have both he AND Backus fill the role? Why not have a healthy Jeff Backus mentor and teach our rookie, and have the rookie take over for Backus around week 4, after he's had the benefit of coaching and training for 8+ weeks?

To me, your scenario or "worries" are exactly why we SHOULD be drafting an LT this year, not reasons why we shouldn't...

I understand your point WJB, and I agree with it. But assuming Fisher will be gone, and I think he will be, u don't really want to spend the fifth overall pick on Land Johnson do u?


Lane Johnson might end up being the very first LT off the boards. It is high time that everyone realize that he was terribly underrated before the Senior Bowl. But, since then, NFL Front Offices have taken notice of him. He very well might go #1 overall. There are 3 very good to great LT's in this draft.


February 27th, 2013, 10:38 pm
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