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 Our D Line. 
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Post Our D Line.
Would we be better off if we moved Suh to DE? He is paid closer to DE pay than DT pay anyway. Moving him to DE, we could re-sign SLH and/or Cory Williams for cheap enough and DT would be covered. Then we would only need to come up with 1 DE.


March 5th, 2013, 11:47 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
I they were going to a 3-4, a Ravens style defense, or at the very least a traditional 4-3 but in this Wide 9 garbage he is too big. He has the get off and burst but at his size and the way he is put together he doesn't have the ability to seemlessly redirect. Once he gets that body going there isn't any stopping and getting it back up to full speed.


March 6th, 2013, 7:03 am
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Post Re: Our D Line.
Yeah no thanks.

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March 6th, 2013, 11:18 am
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Post Re: Our D Line.
Allegedly they're going to get away from the Wide 9 in rushing situations... In those cases it would make sense to get SLH on the field and play Suh at DE. Why they didn't do that sooner is beyond me.


March 6th, 2013, 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
what was Suh's weight his rookie season and did we have a wide 9 then? I'm trying to figure out why his production dropped that last few years. Did the NFL figure out how to play against him, and so they shut him down? Was he asked to gain weight to meet a positional standard? If so could he trim it back down and go back to his rookie year?

Has Porcher got any son's coming up soon?

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March 6th, 2013, 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
what was Suh's weight his rookie season and did we have a wide 9 then? I'm trying to figure out why his production dropped that last few years. Did the NFL figure out how to play against him, and so they shut him down? Was he asked to gain weight to meet a positional standard? If so could he trim it back down and go back to his rookie year?

Has Porcher got any son's coming up soon?


I think it was that teams figured out how to play against him. They figured out how to get in his head (double team him early and his effort drops by a TON), frustrate him and he'll choose personal battles over team goals (pushing, shoving, stomps and kicks vs a more focused attempt to get to the QB), and they better figured out how to handle him physically.

Posters on here say that Suh is "constantly double teamed," but that flat out isn't true. I've seen an OC take him on 1 on 1 and win several times. Get in his head early and he's not effective, bottom line... He's like the Randy Moss of DTs.

It's not by accident teams like GB have frustrated him to no end, it's by design.


March 6th, 2013, 5:01 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
what was Suh's weight his rookie season and did we have a wide 9 then? I'm trying to figure out why his production dropped that last few years. Did the NFL figure out how to play against him, and so they shut him down? Was he asked to gain weight to meet a positional standard? If so could he trim it back down and go back to his rookie year?

Has Porcher got any son's coming up soon?


I think it was that teams figured out how to play against him. They figured out how to get in his head (double team him early and his effort drops by a TON), frustrate him and he'll choose personal battles over team goals (pushing, shoving, stomps and kicks vs a more focused attempt to get to the QB), and they better figured out how to handle him physically.

Posters on here say that Suh is "constantly double teamed," but that flat out isn't true. I've seen an OC take him on 1 on 1 and win several times. Get in his head early and he's not effective, bottom line... He's like the Randy Moss of DTs.

It's not by accident teams like GB have frustrated him to no end, it's by design.


Suh's weight hasn't fluctuated much, he has typically been between 305-310. That isn't the issue. The scheme hasn't changed, so that isn't an issue either.

I would agree with WJB that teams figured out to play him, but my take is different. Of course with his early success teams have done more double teams, that certainly hurts anyone's production. It was figuring out how to "block" Suh out of the play with one (or sometimes zero) OL that made a big difference.

IMO the 49ers showed how to play Suh in game around week 5 or 6 of his second season. Every team up until then tried to stop his penetration at the line of scrimmage. The niners showed team how to use his strength and speed against him by allowing initial penetration and pushing him past or out of the play (think "traps" and "whams"). This proves especially effective in the running game (even more so with Spievey & Company taking terrible angles down the field).

That said, Suh had 10 sacks as a rookie and 8 last year. That isn't that much difference in terms of production. His tackles are probably down more, but I don't look at that stat too much for DTs.

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March 6th, 2013, 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
That's exactly what happened. The real weakness of the Wide 9 comes against the run more so than the pass. Against the run they use Suh's strengths against him by letting him penetrate and then riding past the play. There are already huge lanes simply because they are spread so wide and that is only amplified by Suh's aggressive playing style and weak LB play. I'd much rather having lane clogging DTs that force running plays outside and collapse the pocket and don't give QBs a pocket I step into and make throws.


March 6th, 2013, 5:43 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
sweetd20 wrote:
That's exactly what happened. The real weakness of the Wide 9 comes against the run more so than the pass. Against the run they use Suh's strengths against him by letting him penetrate and then riding past the play. There are already huge lanes simply because they are spread so wide and that is only amplified by Suh's aggressive playing style and weak LB play. I'd much rather having lane clogging DTs that force running plays outside and collapse the pocket and don't give QBs a pocket I step into and make throws.


I said that when we drafted Suh.


March 6th, 2013, 6:38 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
The thing is Suh could have and still can be that guy, but unfortunately they don't use him that way. Unfortunately they can't move him until after the draft and FA has concluded. Depending on where this team is at come the trade deadline they might be best suited to try and fleece the Cowboys. They are switching to the Tampa 2 a defense Suh should thrive in and the Cowboys will likely still be looking for a penetrating DT. Also Jones is desperate to make the Cowboys relevant again as well as getting back into the headlines on a regular basis.


March 6th, 2013, 7:34 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
sweetd20 wrote:
The thing is Suh could have and still can be that guy, but unfortunately they don't use him that way. Unfortunately they can't move him until after the draft and FA has concluded. Depending on where this team is at come the trade deadline they might be best suited to try and fleece the Cowboys. They are switching to the Tampa 2 a defense Suh should thrive in and the Cowboys will likely still be looking for a penetrating DT. Also Jones is desperate to make the Cowboys relevant again as well as getting back into the headlines on a regular basis.


I think we could do it if the Cowboys weren't in such a mess with their cap situation. Oakland is the team I'd think would give up most, and they seem to like Geno Smith over Sharriff Floyd. Remember when they traded a 1st round pick for Richard Seymour at age 29? They're losing him and maybe losing Desmond Bryant, they need a DT.

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March 6th, 2013, 7:43 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
The only problem is the Lions can't move him until after June 1st because of his restructure deal last season. If they traded him before then they would take a roughly $18 million cap hit. Anytime after that they can spread it over this season and next at $9 million a season.


March 6th, 2013, 8:12 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
Trading Suh when our defense is in shambles?

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310

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March 6th, 2013, 10:40 pm
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Post Re: Our D Line.
For the most part that want to trade Suh don't want to lose him as a player but with the money that is going to be tied up in Stafford and Johnson they can't give him a long term deal and field a Super Bowl contending team. I know he's good but DT shouldn't be a premier paid position on a team that wants to contend. Especially when you have two players that when added to a new deal for Suh would be taking up $45-60 million of the cap each season. With that much tied up in three players(with DT and WR being twomofnthem) they might get a couple above average players but the rest are going to be ST guys forced into starting roles. For me there are three positions that are worth elite money and those are QB, LT, and DE. Calvin earned his money and his talent is undeniable but the Lions will likely never be able to afford a true #2 unless they find one in the draft. If the Lions retain Suh the samething will hold true at the DE position and they will have to draft a stud DE or they won't be able to afford him. As far as CB I'd much rather have two good CBs making $12-16 million as compared to one making $15-20 million.


March 7th, 2013, 7:43 am
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Post Re: Our D Line.
sweetd20 wrote:
For the most part that want to trade Suh don't want to lose him as a player but with the money that is going to be tied up in Stafford and Johnson they can't give him a long term deal and field a Super Bowl contending team. I know he's good but DT shouldn't be a premier paid position on a team that wants to contend. Especially when you have two players that when added to a new deal for Suh would be taking up $45-60 million of the cap each season. With that much tied up in three players(with DT and WR being twomofnthem) they might get a couple above average players but the rest are going to be ST guys forced into starting roles. For me there are three positions that are worth elite money and those are QB, LT, and DE. Calvin earned his money and his talent is undeniable but the Lions will likely never be able to afford a true #2 unless they find one in the draft. If the Lions retain Suh the samething will hold true at the DE position and they will have to draft a stud DE or they won't be able to afford him. As far as CB I'd much rather have two good CBs making $12-16 million as compared to one making $15-20 million.


Exactly


March 7th, 2013, 11:39 am
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