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 Free Agency splash 
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
conversion02 wrote:
Stafford is not a leader like those guys you mentioned. I agree wjb. I said that the beginning of last year as this team needs a true leader


I will add... I don't care what anyone says about him "working out" or being "at the office at 5:00a.m.," if he really does study tape as much as every says he does (which I don't think is true) then we're even worse off, because it means that he's just flat out too stupid and to understand opposing defenses.

Further, having some fat on a guy is good. It lubricates the joints, and softens blows of impact. That said, if he works out as much as people say he wouldn't have his "beer gut," which, IMO doesn't help his play.


March 7th, 2013, 6:13 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
wjb21ndtown wrote:
conversion02 wrote:
Stafford is not a leader like those guys you mentioned. I agree wjb. I said that the beginning of last year as this team needs a true leader


I will add... I don't care what anyone says about him "working out" or being "at the office at 5:00a.m.," if he really does study tape as much as every says he does (which I don't think is true) then we're even worse off, because it means that he's just flat out too stupid and to understand opposing defenses.

Further, having some fat on a guy is good. It lubricates the joints, and softens blows of impact. That said, if he works out as much as people say he wouldn't have his "beer gut," which, IMO doesn't help his play.


100% agree with the first statement. He displayed zero progression from 2011 into the 2012 season. Defenses adjusted and made him go through reads and mixed in some blitzes, and he faltered. It was really disappointing watching him all year. He looked so bright and looked to seriously be improving at reading the field quickly and making decisions throughout last year.

I think he isn't putting 100% effort into his study. It just doesn't show on the field, in any way.

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March 7th, 2013, 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
I'd like to see how Stafford handles not throwing 50 times a game. I think it's possible to overuse a QB and that could also be a major problem with him. He seems to get sloppy at times and it could be fatigue. It could also be due to bad workout habits, but I will again bring up that some of the other Lions players always look doughy so it may be another organizational problem not just a Stafford issue.

I think Stafford has a ton of potential, but I agree I'm not that interested in seeing him get paid like he's already reached that potential.


March 7th, 2013, 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
rao wrote:

Joe Flacco just won the Super Bowl and was the Super Bowl MVP without getting in people's faces.


And Joe wasnt getting paid as much as Stafford made as a Rookie. He didnt get his Money until AFTER he won a Superbowl. His Middle of the road contract, combined with no other top 5 (did they even have a top 10 pick in the last decade?) contracts from before the wookie wage scale allowed Balt to field 1 of the best defenses in the league which is the only reason they even made the playoffs. Then somehow Flacco turned it on and went 11td-0int in the playoffs to earn his paycheck.

The lions will NEVER have even close to as good as Balt while paying Stafford what he will get, What we alreayd pay CJ, and what we need to pay Suh if they try to keep him, we just cant afford to have a good enough team to help Stafford win like the Ravens team helped Flacco win. We are relying on Stafford to be Brees/Manning(either)/Brady to get anywhere, when really hes more like Farve without the supporting cast GB had.

I like Stafford, and IMO hes already the best QB the franchise has ever had, but im actually ok making him Prove it 1 more season AND SHOW IMPROVMENT to earn a top 10 (or even top 5) contract BEFORE we pay it to him. Either way hes at least good enough that unless he gets injured he will be resigned and be our QB for a long time to come.. I just dont know if hell ever progress into being the guy we would need him to be to even get to a Championship Game/Superbowl, let alone win it.

I really really really want him to be the guy, and he is fun to watch, so I root for him, but i agree with all the previous posters.. he needs to do more than just put up gaudy stats in a Super Super Heavy Pass offense, Show Better leadership qualities (not the "Aw Shucks" or "Pouty" attitude he usually has when stuff goes wrong) and be more accurate on the easy throws.


March 7th, 2013, 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
Stafford definitely has room to grow but in all honesty the offense regressed as a whole. Lets start with an O-line that was less than average and even when they did keep him clean they rarely ever opened up passing lanes. The receiving corps was a mess all season with injuries to Burleson and Broyles and Young having his meltdown. On top of that besides Broyles tthe inabilty to properly run routes and get separation continued to haunt this team. The utter lack of a running game and in turn no semblance of a play action game. As far as his physique I've been complaining about this team's strength and conditioning for a long time. There are a handful of guys on the Lions that look intimidating but for the most part they look small and soft. I'm waiting for the day when they look like the 49ers, Ravens, Giants, etc. that when they step off the bus teams say we're gonna have our hands full today.


March 7th, 2013, 10:23 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
DJ-B wrote:
rao wrote:

Joe Flacco just won the Super Bowl and was the Super Bowl MVP without getting in people's faces.


And Joe wasnt getting paid as much as Stafford made as a Rookie. He didnt get his Money until AFTER he won a Superbowl. His Middle of the road contract, combined with no other top 5 (did they even have a top 10 pick in the last decade?) contracts from before the wookie wage scale allowed Balt to field 1 of the best defenses in the league which is the only reason they even made the playoffs. Then somehow Flacco turned it on and went 11td-0int in the playoffs to earn his paycheck.

The lions will NEVER have even close to as good as Balt while paying Stafford what he will get, What we alreayd pay CJ, and what we need to pay Suh if they try to keep him, we just cant afford to have a good enough team to help Stafford win like the Ravens team helped Flacco win. We are relying on Stafford to be Brees/Manning(either)/Brady to get anywhere, when really hes more like Farve without the supporting cast GB had.

I like Stafford, and IMO hes already the best QB the franchise has ever had, but im actually ok making him Prove it 1 more season AND SHOW IMPROVMENT to earn a top 10 (or even top 5) contract BEFORE we pay it to him. Either way hes at least good enough that unless he gets injured he will be resigned and be our QB for a long time to come.. I just dont know if hell ever progress into being the guy we would need him to be to even get to a Championship Game/Superbowl, let alone win it.

I really really really want him to be the guy, and he is fun to watch, so I root for him, but i agree with all the previous posters.. he needs to do more than just put up gaudy stats in a Super Super Heavy Pass offense, Show Better leadership qualities (not the "Aw Shucks" or "Pouty" attitude he usually has when stuff goes wrong) and be more accurate on the easy throws.

I agree with DJB. It's time for Stafford to become the man of the house. I do think that part of his problem is the fact that Jim Schwartz worships the corn in his poop. Stafford does no wrong in the eyes of Schwartz. How can Stafford make the rest of the team accountable if he doesnt have to be accountable? He should definetely be made to earn his keep in the post season(Hell, I just want to see him to beat the Packers). Same could be said for Pettigrew, someone in the building needs to tell that guy how much he sucks. It is this reason that I'd rather we sign Bradshaw than Reggie Bush. A guy like Bradshaw will light a fire under everyone's a** without being a cancer and he is even good enough to start. We should still add a speedier back in the later rounds but Chris Rainy is still gonna be a cheap signing and fills two huge needs if we're talking free agency guys

But at the same time, I do think Stafford is capable of winning a superbowl. Him, CJ and Sims are the only ones on offense worth a damn right now. The O-line is/was so worthless to the point that a guy who almost got Stafford killed is still starting on the team. Joe Flacco has the luxury of being able to dump it off to his RB on 4th & 29, while ours can't even be effective vs regular 6 man fronts. Joe Flacco will never be forced to throw the ball 700+ times in a season nor will he ever have to subsidize for guys like Dominic Riaola or Stephen Peterman protecting him. When we overhaul the O-line and get a solid running game to take some pressure off of him, I think we'll see an elite QB. He is going into his 5th year in the NFL and he is getting older and still maturing into the game under some rediculous circumstances. He has had a careers worth of personal ups and downs already so I think we have only scene a portion of what he can really do. But once we have a coaching staff that stresses accountability and stops babying Stafford he will be fine. I really hope he get a starting O-lineman in FA and possibly 2 more in the draft because I too am sick of waiting for him to reach his potential. When watching him mic'd up, I like what I hear so I think desire to win is there and he is a capable leader

Also, the stubborn refusal of this team to use a fullback irritates the hell out of me.

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March 8th, 2013, 3:35 am
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
DJ-B wrote:
rao wrote:

Joe Flacco just won the Super Bowl and was the Super Bowl MVP without getting in people's faces.


And Joe wasnt getting paid as much as Stafford made as a Rookie. He didnt get his Money until AFTER he won a Superbowl. His Middle of the road contract, combined with no other top 5 (did they even have a top 10 pick in the last decade?) contracts from before the wookie wage scale allowed Balt to field 1 of the best defenses in the league which is the only reason they even made the playoffs. Then somehow Flacco turned it on and went 11td-0int in the playoffs to earn his paycheck.

The lions will NEVER have even close to as good as Balt while paying Stafford what he will get, What we alreayd pay CJ, and what we need to pay Suh if they try to keep him, we just cant afford to have a good enough team to help Stafford win like the Ravens team helped Flacco win. We are relying on Stafford to be Brees/Manning(either)/Brady to get anywhere, when really hes more like Farve without the supporting cast GB had.

I like Stafford, and IMO hes already the best QB the franchise has ever had, but im actually ok making him Prove it 1 more season AND SHOW IMPROVMENT to earn a top 10 (or even top 5) contract BEFORE we pay it to him. Either way hes at least good enough that unless he gets injured he will be resigned and be our QB for a long time to come.. I just dont know if hell ever progress into being the guy we would need him to be to even get to a Championship Game/Superbowl, let alone win it.

I really really really want him to be the guy, and he is fun to watch, so I root for him, but i agree with all the previous posters.. he needs to do more than just put up gaudy stats in a Super Super Heavy Pass offense, Show Better leadership qualities (not the "Aw Shucks" or "Pouty" attitude he usually has when stuff goes wrong) and be more accurate on the easy throws.


That statement was only directed at the need for Stafford to get into peoples faces. It had nothing to do with who earned what or whatever. Stafford being "pouty" also doesn't make him a bad leader, Eli is known for his "pouty" faces and was criticized for his leadership until he got a super bowl and some how became a great leader while still acting the exact same way on the field. Stafford has the rest of the team behind him and that's all that matters on the leadership side for him. If you start to see interviews where players dodge question about Stafford then you can start to worry about his leadership.

We only need to worry about his lack of progression and that is why I wouldn't want to sign him to a long term big money deal this year, but you also have to realize that it's very unlikely the Lions ever decide to go with a different QB. This coaching staff and front office are tied to Stafford, so they are going to put all they got into him, even if that means being wrong and screwing over the next guys that take over the team.


March 8th, 2013, 9:55 am
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
wjb21ndtown wrote:
It's not about "getting in someone's face." It's about letting people know that you're disappointed in their play, expecting more from your receivers, and not tolerating BS. Stafford DOES NOT DO THAT. He wines and pouts like a little girl if they drop balls, but he does it on the field, behind the OL, and never says anything later. He doesn't hold people accountable, and that's the issue. Flacco, Eli, Brady, Breese, and Manning all do.


This is more or less what I was trying to say but I kind of just mashed all of those things up into one verb that didn't exactly fit my thought.

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March 8th, 2013, 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
Footsoldier32 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
It's not about "getting in someone's face." It's about letting people know that you're disappointed in their play, expecting more from your receivers, and not tolerating BS. Stafford DOES NOT DO THAT. He wines and pouts like a little girl if they drop balls, but he does it on the field, behind the OL, and never says anything later. He doesn't hold people accountable, and that's the issue. Flacco, Eli, Brady, Breese, and Manning all do.


This is more or less what I was trying to say but I kind of just mashed all of those things up into one verb that didn't exactly fit my thought.


I just picked up the ball and ran with it. Everyone was narrowing your post incorrectly I thought and limiting it to "getting in someone's face," but it's not about yelling at people or screaming at them, it's about holding people accountable, and Staff doesn't do that, at all.


March 8th, 2013, 1:24 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
rao wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
rao wrote:

Joe Flacco just won the Super Bowl and was the Super Bowl MVP without getting in people's faces.


And Joe wasnt getting paid as much as Stafford made as a Rookie. He didnt get his Money until AFTER he won a Superbowl. His Middle of the road contract, combined with no other top 5 (did they even have a top 10 pick in the last decade?) contracts from before the wookie wage scale allowed Balt to field 1 of the best defenses in the league which is the only reason they even made the playoffs. Then somehow Flacco turned it on and went 11td-0int in the playoffs to earn his paycheck.

The lions will NEVER have even close to as good as Balt while paying Stafford what he will get, What we alreayd pay CJ, and what we need to pay Suh if they try to keep him, we just cant afford to have a good enough team to help Stafford win like the Ravens team helped Flacco win. We are relying on Stafford to be Brees/Manning(either)/Brady to get anywhere, when really hes more like Farve without the supporting cast GB had.

I like Stafford, and IMO hes already the best QB the franchise has ever had, but im actually ok making him Prove it 1 more season AND SHOW IMPROVMENT to earn a top 10 (or even top 5) contract BEFORE we pay it to him. Either way hes at least good enough that unless he gets injured he will be resigned and be our QB for a long time to come.. I just dont know if hell ever progress into being the guy we would need him to be to even get to a Championship Game/Superbowl, let alone win it.

I really really really want him to be the guy, and he is fun to watch, so I root for him, but i agree with all the previous posters.. he needs to do more than just put up gaudy stats in a Super Super Heavy Pass offense, Show Better leadership qualities (not the "Aw Shucks" or "Pouty" attitude he usually has when stuff goes wrong) and be more accurate on the easy throws.


That statement was only directed at the need for Stafford to get into peoples faces. It had nothing to do with who earned what or whatever. Stafford being "pouty" also doesn't make him a bad leader, Eli is known for his "pouty" faces and was criticized for his leadership until he got a super bowl and some how became a great leader while still acting the exact same way on the field. Stafford has the rest of the team behind him and that's all that matters on the leadership side for him. If you start to see interviews where players dodge question about Stafford then you can start to worry about his leadership.

We only need to worry about his lack of progression and that is why I wouldn't want to sign him to a long term big money deal this year, but you also have to realize that it's very unlikely the Lions ever decide to go with a different QB. This coaching staff and front office are tied to Stafford, so they are going to put all they got into him, even if that means being wrong and screwing over the next guys that take over the team.


I agree with you, and definitely didnt mean all of that in response to you. I was really reply to the whole thread, but only quoted your 1 line. And by "Get in their faces" i did mean exactly what WJB described, not actual yelling. Staff may talk to other players about what they need to work on, but ive never really seen it. He commands the Huddle, but IMO he doesnt command the Locker room, and while he shouldnt have more authority than the coaching staff (who "own" the locker room, kind of) , He doesnt begin to compare to the Brees, Peyton, Brady way of interacting with his teammates from what we can see on and off the field. He's still the Young Gun , Fun Loving , Aw Shucks College Kid. Those guys dont scream and berate, but they do what WJB pointed out, and that is what I meant.

I think he Can be that guy, and I think its time for him to "Grow Up" into a Football Man. I think hes been "Having Fun letting it fly" for the last few years, and thats great when your a rookie/learning how it works... it keeps your confidence up and lets you find your ceiling, and his TALENT Ceiling is 1 of the highest in the league. He can be 1 of the greats, but there are more part so him that need to step up if he is ever to attain it. And yes, he is definitely our guy for the long hall barring a career ending injury. If they fail this year the new FO/Coaching staff brouht in would be brought in to build with him also, so he will be our guy for a long time to come, now we just cross our fingers that he embraces the army "Be all that you Can be" army motto.


March 8th, 2013, 3:22 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
DJ-B wrote:
rao wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
rao wrote:

Joe Flacco just won the Super Bowl and was the Super Bowl MVP without getting in people's faces.


And Joe wasnt getting paid as much as Stafford made as a Rookie. He didnt get his Money until AFTER he won a Superbowl. His Middle of the road contract, combined with no other top 5 (did they even have a top 10 pick in the last decade?) contracts from before the wookie wage scale allowed Balt to field 1 of the best defenses in the league which is the only reason they even made the playoffs. Then somehow Flacco turned it on and went 11td-0int in the playoffs to earn his paycheck.

The lions will NEVER have even close to as good as Balt while paying Stafford what he will get, What we alreayd pay CJ, and what we need to pay Suh if they try to keep him, we just cant afford to have a good enough team to help Stafford win like the Ravens team helped Flacco win. We are relying on Stafford to be Brees/Manning(either)/Brady to get anywhere, when really hes more like Farve without the supporting cast GB had.

I like Stafford, and IMO hes already the best QB the franchise has ever had, but im actually ok making him Prove it 1 more season AND SHOW IMPROVMENT to earn a top 10 (or even top 5) contract BEFORE we pay it to him. Either way hes at least good enough that unless he gets injured he will be resigned and be our QB for a long time to come.. I just dont know if hell ever progress into being the guy we would need him to be to even get to a Championship Game/Superbowl, let alone win it.

I really really really want him to be the guy, and he is fun to watch, so I root for him, but i agree with all the previous posters.. he needs to do more than just put up gaudy stats in a Super Super Heavy Pass offense, Show Better leadership qualities (not the "Aw Shucks" or "Pouty" attitude he usually has when stuff goes wrong) and be more accurate on the easy throws.


That statement was only directed at the need for Stafford to get into peoples faces. It had nothing to do with who earned what or whatever. Stafford being "pouty" also doesn't make him a bad leader, Eli is known for his "pouty" faces and was criticized for his leadership until he got a super bowl and some how became a great leader while still acting the exact same way on the field. Stafford has the rest of the team behind him and that's all that matters on the leadership side for him. If you start to see interviews where players dodge question about Stafford then you can start to worry about his leadership.

We only need to worry about his lack of progression and that is why I wouldn't want to sign him to a long term big money deal this year, but you also have to realize that it's very unlikely the Lions ever decide to go with a different QB. This coaching staff and front office are tied to Stafford, so they are going to put all they got into him, even if that means being wrong and screwing over the next guys that take over the team.


I agree with you, and definitely didnt mean all of that in response to you. I was really reply to the whole thread, but only quoted your 1 line. And by "Get in their faces" i did mean exactly what WJB described, not actual yelling. Staff may talk to other players about what they need to work on, but ive never really seen it. He commands the Huddle, but IMO he doesnt command the Locker room, and while he shouldnt have more authority than the coaching staff (who "own" the locker room, kind of) , He doesnt begin to compare to the Brees, Peyton, Brady way of interacting with his teammates from what we can see on and off the field. He's still the Young Gun , Fun Loving , Aw Shucks College Kid. Those guys dont scream and berate, but they do what WJB pointed out, and that is what I meant.

I think he Can be that guy, and I think its time for him to "Grow Up" into a Football Man. I think hes been "Having Fun letting it fly" for the last few years, and thats great when your a rookie/learning how it works... it keeps your confidence up and lets you find your ceiling, and his TALENT Ceiling is 1 of the highest in the league. He can be 1 of the greats, but there are more part so him that need to step up if he is ever to attain it. And yes, he is definitely our guy for the long hall barring a career ending injury. If they fail this year the new FO/Coaching staff brouht in would be brought in to build with him also, so he will be our guy for a long time to come, now we just cross our fingers that he embraces the army "Be all that you Can be" army motto.


I don't think Stafford will ever command a team like the Manning bros, Brees, Brady, or Flaco. Unless something in his career really makes a dramatic shift he's probably always going to be a kinda Aww shucks sort of guy. He's a Texas boy, has been a starting QB his whole life and really has nothing other than not wanting to lose to push him. All the other QBs everyone wants him to lead like all had big chips on their shoulders. Bree's had to prove his good year wasn't just a fluke and that his shoulder wasn't an issue. Peyton could never win the big game and had to live up to his Golden boy college career. Brady had being drafted in the 6th round. Flaco was the small school guy and then the is he elite stuff every year. Eli had to get out from Peyton's shadow. Almost all the best guys have something to push them, but it doesn't seem like Stafford has ever had anything like that and it shows in his attitude.

Haha, I think I just talked myself out of Stafford. I've just convinced myself he could never win a Super Bowl if he's the focal point of the offense. I was trying to think of a team that has won with a QB with a demeanor like Stafford and I can't think of one.


March 8th, 2013, 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
Maybe Aikman...but they had very vocal "leaders" like Irvin and Deion

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March 8th, 2013, 10:14 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
conversion02 wrote:
Maybe Aikman...but they had very vocal "leaders" like Irvin and Deion


It really hurts that CJ and Suh are also not vocal leaders. I don't know how the Lions could ever get one when the 3 highest paid guys add very little to nothing as leaders.


March 8th, 2013, 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
Lions reportedly have offer for Delmas. Details of contract offer unknown.

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March 9th, 2013, 10:41 am
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Post Re: Free Agency splash
kdsberman wrote:
Lions reportedly have offer for Delmas. Details of contract offer unknown.



http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2013/3/9/ ... roit-lions

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/20 ... _of_c.html


March 9th, 2013, 11:48 am
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