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 Suh to assist in cap space 
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
I'm with Wjb on this one.

This all started from a post trying to give praise to Suh and bring Stafford into question for not getting anything done. Suh deserves no praise and Stafford doesn't deserve any criticism for the current contract stuff that they have been involved in. There is a ton of variables involved in the Stafford contract and there was nothing involved in the Suh restructure.

I argue a ton with Wjb, but it's because he adds debatable viewpoints that help make this board entertaining.


March 14th, 2013, 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
Ok, first and foremost this thread was started to pass along info about Suh restructuring. I did not PRAISE him, I just asked why everyone was bashing him for restructuring his contract when 1. he didn't have to, 2. it helps the team as a whole.

Next: If I've learned nothing else from my 7 almost 8 years on this site, I've learned that Millen and the Fords who allowed his incompetence, practically DESTROYED this team. I watch a coach like Marinelli come in and play powder puff football and do it with cast offs. The played an antiquated system that was unimaginative, and BORING. We got our clocks cleaned and deserved our outhouse rating. Now, mix that with a city that has a 40% illiteracy rate, more unemployment and destroyed buildings and infrastructure than should be allowed. Wrap up all the social ailes of Detroit, mix it with how ugly the City has become, and sprinkle it all with desperation and I have to ask why would anyone want to come there? I have trouble wanting to come to games whether its the Lions or Tigers, because you get concerned for your safety, and sick of seeing how desperate the city is, as a whole. Quite frankly, it's an embarassment to Michigan. So there isn't really anything to attract anyone to play there.

Miami: has the weather, the culture, and a beautiful city.
Chicago: culture, things to do and see, and enough to catch your attention and draw it away from the Southside
San Diego, Arizona, Dallas, Denver, just about any city you wish to choose all have their issues, but NOT to the extent of Detroit. So this adds to the appeal level of someone wanting to move there.

I'm not a football genius, and try to stay out of conversations I don't understand, especially cap money's and contracts. But your negative connotations(sp?) are like a heavey weight that just adds to the current misery. I spent the majority of last season so disgusted that I absolutely WISHED with all I had that I could give up on the Lions. The problem is, I cut my teeth watching them. I can NOT choose another team, I don't follow other teams, not even in the AFC. Detroit is it, and I'm tired of being the b!tch of the NFL. We are and continue to be a laughing stock, and even to mention being a Lions fan brings that look of pity from fans of other teams.

I went to the game where Detroit played GB at home, and Kitna had us up by 20 points or more. The place was electric, and then I watched GB come in and decimate this team and won by 20. GB fans behind me were extactic and couldn't understand the frustration and boos. But they've only known success for 20 + years, while we've had nothing but humiliation. So your negative rants are understandable, but it's the proverbial salt in the wound.

Have you considered writing letters to the editor of the Freep? How about D Sparks or Starks, he's a wet blanket on all things Michigan Sports. He would probably take your stuff and make a blog out of it. How about emails to Lions HQ or anyone that will listen. Let them feel your wrath for a change?

Btw, I didn't mean to call you out in front of everyone, but dude it's hard to enjoy the site when every thread has negative stuff in it from top to bottom.

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March 14th, 2013, 10:10 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Ok, first and foremost this thread was started to pass along info about Suh restructuring. I did not PRAISE him, I just asked why everyone was bashing him for restructuring his contract when 1. he didn't have to, 2. it helps the team as a whole.

Next: If I've learned nothing else from my 7 almost 8 years on this site, I've learned that Millen and the Fords who allowed his incompetence, practically DESTROYED this team. I watch a coach like Marinelli come in and play powder puff football and do it with cast offs. The played an antiquated system that was unimaginative, and BORING. We got our clocks cleaned and deserved our outhouse rating. Now, mix that with a city that has a 40% illiteracy rate, more unemployment and destroyed buildings and infrastructure than should be allowed. Wrap up all the social ailes of Detroit, mix it with how ugly the City has become, and sprinkle it all with desperation and I have to ask why would anyone want to come there? I have trouble wanting to come to games whether its the Lions or Tigers, because you get concerned for your safety, and sick of seeing how desperate the city is, as a whole. Quite frankly, it's an embarassment to Michigan. So there isn't really anything to attract anyone to play there.

Miami: has the weather, the culture, and a beautiful city.
Chicago: culture, things to do and see, and enough to catch your attention and draw it away from the Southside
San Diego, Arizona, Dallas, Denver, just about any city you wish to choose all have their issues, but NOT to the extent of Detroit. So this adds to the appeal level of someone wanting to move there.

I'm not a football genius, and try to stay out of conversations I don't understand, especially cap money's and contracts. But your negative connotations(sp?) are like a heavey weight that just adds to the current misery. I spent the majority of last season so disgusted that I absolutely WISHED with all I had that I could give up on the Lions. The problem is, I cut my teeth watching them. I can NOT choose another team, I don't follow other teams, not even in the AFC. Detroit is it, and I'm tired of being the b!tch of the NFL. We are and continue to be a laughing stock, and even to mention being a Lions fan brings that look of pity from fans of other teams.

I went to the game where Detroit played GB at home, and Kitna had us up by 20 points or more. The place was electric, and then I watched GB come in and decimate this team and won by 20. GB fans behind me were extactic and couldn't understand the frustration and boos. But they've only known success for 20 + years, while we've had nothing but humiliation. So your negative rants are understandable, but it's the proverbial salt in the wound.

Have you considered writing letters to the editor of the Freep? How about D Sparks or Starks, he's a wet blanket on all things Michigan Sports. He would probably take your stuff and make a blog out of it. How about emails to Lions HQ or anyone that will listen. Let them feel your wrath for a change?

Btw, I didn't mean to call you out in front of everyone, but dude it's hard to enjoy the site when every thread has negative stuff in it from top to bottom.



=D> =D>

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March 14th, 2013, 11:45 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
I just read on NFL.com that Suh restructured his contract and gave us $7+mil more in cap space. True?


March 15th, 2013, 1:40 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
Boz wrote:
I just read on NFL.com that Suh restructured his contract and gave us $7+mil more in cap space. True?


Yea, he did it a couple of days ago. That's what this thread is about...


March 15th, 2013, 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
DUH! My bad...lol I need to start paying attention!


March 15th, 2013, 1:52 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Ok, first and foremost this thread was started to pass along info about Suh restructuring. I did not PRAISE him, I just asked why everyone was bashing him for restructuring his contract when 1. he didn't have to, 2. it helps the team as a whole.

Next: If I've learned nothing else from my 7 almost 8 years on this site, I've learned that Millen and the Fords who allowed his incompetence, practically DESTROYED this team. I watch a coach like Marinelli come in and play powder puff football and do it with cast offs. The played an antiquated system that was unimaginative, and BORING. We got our clocks cleaned and deserved our outhouse rating. Now, mix that with a city that has a 40% illiteracy rate, more unemployment and destroyed buildings and infrastructure than should be allowed. Wrap up all the social ailes of Detroit, mix it with how ugly the City has become, and sprinkle it all with desperation and I have to ask why would anyone want to come there? I have trouble wanting to come to games whether its the Lions or Tigers, because you get concerned for your safety, and sick of seeing how desperate the city is, as a whole. Quite frankly, it's an embarassment to Michigan. So there isn't really anything to attract anyone to play there.

Miami: has the weather, the culture, and a beautiful city.
Chicago: culture, things to do and see, and enough to catch your attention and draw it away from the Southside
San Diego, Arizona, Dallas, Denver, just about any city you wish to choose all have their issues, but NOT to the extent of Detroit. So this adds to the appeal level of someone wanting to move there.

I'm not a football genius, and try to stay out of conversations I don't understand, especially cap money's and contracts. But your negative connotations(sp?) are like a heavey weight that just adds to the current misery. I spent the majority of last season so disgusted that I absolutely WISHED with all I had that I could give up on the Lions. The problem is, I cut my teeth watching them. I can NOT choose another team, I don't follow other teams, not even in the AFC. Detroit is it, and I'm tired of being the b!tch of the NFL. We are and continue to be a laughing stock, and even to mention being a Lions fan brings that look of pity from fans of other teams.

I went to the game where Detroit played GB at home, and Kitna had us up by 20 points or more. The place was electric, and then I watched GB come in and decimate this team and won by 20. GB fans behind me were extactic and couldn't understand the frustration and boos. But they've only known success for 20 + years, while we've had nothing but humiliation. So your negative rants are understandable, but it's the proverbial salt in the wound.

Have you considered writing letters to the editor of the Freep? How about D Sparks or Starks, he's a wet blanket on all things Michigan Sports. He would probably take your stuff and make a blog out of it. How about emails to Lions HQ or anyone that will listen. Let them feel your wrath for a change?

Btw, I didn't mean to call you out in front of everyone, but dude it's hard to enjoy the site when every thread has negative stuff in it from top to bottom.


W4C...

I get what you're saying, but the current administration is only moderately less competent than the Millen era. I was positive about Mayhew for his first year here. I liked what he was doing and where things were going. I did have an "in Mayhew we trust" attitude. I didn't like that we passed on Alex Mack, but I was supportive of Pett at first, and happy with the pick. It was like an "I wish we would have... but oh well..." I really liked that Mayhew seemed determined to fix the offense even in light of fans SCREAMING for defensive picks.

That said, I soured to him quickly when I started to see the incompetence. People on here called me crazy, a hater, etc., for seeing much of what they're seeing now two years ago.

Most people know that I'm a lawyer, but what most people don't know is that I studied management, policy, and personnel at WSU under former Congressman Tim Bledsoe and David Ivers. Ivers is a well-known commodity in the management field, and my studies with the two aforementioned professors have opened my eyes to be able to see things that most fans can't see. I see breakdowns and incompetence in our front office, and I predicted this mess three years ago, all while people were calling me crazy, stupid, a hater, etc.

It maddens me, it literally drives me nuts that fans get fed up with and see all of the problems by season's end, and then the draft comes around and it's the same rosy horsesh!t all over again. It's NOT GOING TO CHANGE WITHOUT A FRONT OFFICE CHANGE. That's where my negativity comes from. From the lack of understanding by most fans of the real problem(s) with this organization, and the fact that it's not going to change until the regime changes.


March 15th, 2013, 1:56 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
To be honest, Suh didn't sacrifice anything. He just converted 95% of his base salary into a signing bonus and got paid this week instead of over the length of the NFL season. Furthermore, while it helped the team now, it hurt them over the long term. He saved them $7M this year, at the expense of an additional $3.5M in 2014 and 2015. To make matters worse, 2015 is a voidable year, so even if Suh is no longer with the team, the Lions will be out an additional $3.5M that year.

I hate these simple restructures.

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March 15th, 2013, 3:04 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
slybri19 wrote:
To be honest, Suh didn't sacrifice anything. He just converted 95% of his base salary into a signing bonus and got paid this week instead of over the length of the NFL season. Furthermore, while it helped the team now, it hurt them over the long term. He saved them $7M this year, at the expense of an additional $3.5M in 2014 and 2015. To make matters worse, 2015 is a voidable year, so even if Suh is no longer with the team, the Lions will be out an additional $3.5M that year.

I hate these simple restructures.


That's why losing teams usually stay losing for a long time. The contracts for the #1-3 overall picks can be disastrous.

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March 15th, 2013, 3:07 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
Shotty wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
To be honest, Suh didn't sacrifice anything. He just converted 95% of his base salary into a signing bonus and got paid this week instead of over the length of the NFL season. Furthermore, while it helped the team now, it hurt them over the long term. He saved them $7M this year, at the expense of an additional $3.5M in 2014 and 2015. To make matters worse, 2015 is a voidable year, so even if Suh is no longer with the team, the Lions will be out an additional $3.5M that year.

I hate these simple restructures.


That's why losing teams usually stay losing for a long time. The contracts for the #1-3 overall picks can be disastrous.


Again... You can't argue it's the contracts that ware holding us back when we are the ones that created the situation that it's difficult or impossible to trade these guys.


March 15th, 2013, 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
WJB,
But you need to keep in mind that your average fan (me) does not know these intimate details, and quite frankly doesn't really care. I'm probably a neanderthal about this stuff but honestly, these guys make a lot of money to play a game. I bust my butt to bring in 32k a year and I'm glad to have it. I'm sure some of these fellas have tattoos that cost as much as I make in a year. Regardless, your training and experience puts you in a position that Tom, Dick, and Harry are not familiar with. Having siad that, you almost are speaking a language we common folk can't understand and don't care about because it doesn't really affect our common lives. With my whole heart I believe that the Lions lacked heart all last year. They didn't have any fire, or drive, and so when it came down to it, they couldn't score, or keep a drive. Insert your own reason, but leadership is one thing, and player accountability is another. Offseason bs by the 3 really hurt the team and already put us in a negative light. Then throw in Suh and his new dance, the Stomp, to be followed up by the sequel "the Nutcracker" and we get more crap shoveled on us. They lost their identity, and drive, and then they lost their heart. Only so much of that comes from the coach, but the GM is like a Pastor, he has the vision for the team, the Coach is the one who guides them there, and the Players are accountable for their actions. None of that happened.

How do we fix it? By addressing all three. What's the vision? How are we going to get there? and is everyone on board? Then act like it! Instead you have over paid kids acting like it's the first day with the keys to daddy's truck and bank account. Heck I did it in the service. They call it sowing wild oats for a reason. Name a Military tradition, and I guarantee I lived it, and probably created a few. Now that I've matured, I know what's important and I've settled in to my routine. The same can be said of the recent college grads, and yet we keep holding them to a higher standard because 1. they're famous, 2. they get paid A LOT, and 3. we forget their YOUNG.

Like I said, we've always been cool in responding back and forth, but every thread had a rant, and it was getting to be too much. You've got the knowledge and training, but why don't you pull the strings and get it to the Lions FO? You know some people who can drop a dime or two. Heck you could find yourself in a FO job if you did it right! New ideas and fresh vision, mixed with solid knowledge good be a great asset to the team.

Now I must get back to my 32k common life.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


March 15th, 2013, 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
The solution is simple. You pay the QB and WR and let the DT go. You can't pay all three, so you have to priortitze.

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March 15th, 2013, 3:35 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
WarEr4Christ wrote:
WJB,
But you need to keep in mind that your average fan (me) does not know these intimate details, and quite frankly doesn't really care. I'm probably a neanderthal about this stuff but honestly, these guys make a lot of money to play a game. I bust my butt to bring in 32k a year and I'm glad to have it. I'm sure some of these fellas have tattoos that cost as much as I make in a year. Regardless, your training and experience puts you in a position that Tom, Dick, and Harry are not familiar with. Having siad that, you almost are speaking a language we common folk can't understand and don't care about because it doesn't really affect our common lives. With my whole heart I believe that the Lions lacked heart all last year. They didn't have any fire, or drive, and so when it came down to it, they couldn't score, or keep a drive. Insert your own reason, but leadership is one thing, and player accountability is another. Offseason bs by the 3 really hurt the team and already put us in a negative light. Then throw in Suh and his new dance, the Stomp, to be followed up by the sequel "the Nutcracker" and we get more crap shoveled on us. They lost their identity, and drive, and then they lost their heart. Only so much of that comes from the coach, but the GM is like a Pastor, he has the vision for the team, the Coach is the one who guides them there, and the Players are accountable for their actions. None of that happened.

How do we fix it? By addressing all three. What's the vision? How are we going to get there? and is everyone on board? Then act like it! Instead you have over paid kids acting like it's the first day with the keys to daddy's truck and bank account. Heck I did it in the service. They call it sowing wild oats for a reason. Name a Military tradition, and I guarantee I lived it, and probably created a few. Now that I've matured, I know what's important and I've settled in to my routine. The same can be said of the recent college grads, and yet we keep holding them to a higher standard because 1. they're famous, 2. they get paid A LOT, and 3. we forget their YOUNG.

Like I said, we've always been cool in responding back and forth, but every thread had a rant, and it was getting to be too much. You've got the knowledge and training, but why don't you pull the strings and get it to the Lions FO? You know some people who can drop a dime or two. Heck you could find yourself in a FO job if you did it right! New ideas and fresh vision, mixed with solid knowledge good be a great asset to the team.

Now I must get back to my 32k common life.


With the team... The lack of "vision" you complain of is a legitimate concern. IMO Barry Sanders said it best when he retired in 2002. When asked why he retired he said "we're not offensive minded, we're not defensive minded, I don't know what we are." And I think Barry himself would admit that the next line to that quote would have been, "and until we find an identity, we're not going anywhere..."

That identity and vision is supposed to come from the GM, and it's lacking. Mayhew is not doing his job, period. Mayhew had a horrible mentor, no job description, and he thought that it was going to be enough to "work harder" than Millen (who did the job via proxy from Pennsylvania, so working harder wasn't hard to do), but what needed to happen is the role of the GM needed to change. You can't "learn on the fly" how to be a proper manager." It's something that takes training to do. If we stick with Mayhew what we're going to find is that, like Millen, he's going to find new ways to make the same old mistakes. He needs to go.

A good GM should have his finger on the pulse, without interfering, until necessary. A good GM needs to ask questions, offer suggestions, and hold people accountable when it's not working. None of that is happening. I do blame a lot of that on WCF. There seems to be little communication throughout the organization, unless it's bickering during the season, or rampant optimism on "who we're going to get" in the offseason.

Schwartz and Mayhew seemed to be on two different pages during the season last year, now they're arm in arm gathering this collection of players. Why is that? Mayhew gets mad at Schwartz for his lack of production, Schwartz blames everything on the refs and injuries. The two of them fight, then in the offseason it's time for Schwartz to do Mayhew's job and pick the players that Schwartz wants, so the two come together for a task that only one of them should be doing. I can't stress enough, a head coach should pick the type of player he wants on his team, the GM should find that player. A coach should never be selecting a specific player. That's the job of the scouting department/GM.

It honestly takes WAY more time than Schwartz or anyone else can invest into the process to properly vet the players we're going to draft/sign. Why do we take all of these risks on these injury prone guys? Because right now Schwartz, not Mayhew or the scouting department is "vetting" our players. Hopefully Sanders will put a stop to that.

I stated we were going to have these issues four years ago when it was stated that it was Schwartz, not Mayhew that made the decision to draft Pett. It can't work that way, and Mayhew's job is superfluous if it is working that way.

I will post the response to my suggestion to WCF to create a 501(c)(3) corporation for post-concussion syndrome individuals after I (or if I) receive one.


March 15th, 2013, 3:43 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
wjb wrote:
Schwartz and Mayhew seemed to be on two different pages during the season last year, now they're arm in arm gathering this collection of players. Why is that? Mayhew gets mad at Schwartz for his lack of production, Schwartz blames everything on the refs and injuries. The two of them fight, then in the offseason it's time for Schwartz to do Mayhew's job and pick the players that Schwartz wants, so the two come together for a task that only one of them should be doing. I can't stress enough, a head coach should pick the type of player he wants on his team, the GM should find that player. A coach should never be selecting a specific player. That's the job of the scouting department/GM.

It honestly takes WAY more time than Schwartz or anyone else can invest into the process to properly vet the players we're going to draft/sign. Why do we take all of these risks on these injury prone guys? Because right now Schwartz, not Mayhew or the scouting department is "vetting" our players. Hopefully Sanders will put a stop to that.


WJB I agree with a lot of what you are saying but how do you or any fan know what is happening behind closed doors. How do we know who is making player personal choices?

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March 15th, 2013, 11:22 pm
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Post Re: Suh to assist in cap space
CMWSR wrote:
wjb wrote:
Schwartz and Mayhew seemed to be on two different pages during the season last year, now they're arm in arm gathering this collection of players. Why is that? Mayhew gets mad at Schwartz for his lack of production, Schwartz blames everything on the refs and injuries. The two of them fight, then in the offseason it's time for Schwartz to do Mayhew's job and pick the players that Schwartz wants, so the two come together for a task that only one of them should be doing. I can't stress enough, a head coach should pick the type of player he wants on his team, the GM should find that player. A coach should never be selecting a specific player. That's the job of the scouting department/GM.

It honestly takes WAY more time than Schwartz or anyone else can invest into the process to properly vet the players we're going to draft/sign. Why do we take all of these risks on these injury prone guys? Because right now Schwartz, not Mayhew or the scouting department is "vetting" our players. Hopefully Sanders will put a stop to that.


WJB I agree with a lot of what you are saying but how do you or any fan know what is happening behind closed doors. How do we know who is making player personal choices?


Pett and Best were Schwartz picks for sure. The two of the bragged about it... Mayhew said that "Jim Schwartz fell in love with Best's highlight reel and told me, go get me that guy!" Schwartz vehemently defended both picks and raved about both players. A lot of people hated both picks because they thought they should have been D picks.

The same was true with Pett. I don't know about Broyles and Titus, but it's more of the same, ignoring concerns and needs, and falling in love with a skill set.


March 16th, 2013, 11:16 am
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