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 Victor Cruz 
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Post Re: Victor Cruz.
kdsberman wrote:
Shotty wrote:
We can get about 5M for cutting NB next offseason, restructuring Staff, and the salary cap increase will make it easier on us. Maybe a 4 year $45 million dollar deal and our first for their 2nd and the new greatest show on turf?


With the needs on O-line and defense, you seriously want to spend money on a WR? We dont need a high caliber WR. Someone like Massaquoi would do just fine. If Mayhew even attempted to find a way to get Victor Cruz, thatll be the last ounce of support ill have for him.


With a Staff restructure and cutting Nate, that would save us at least 10 mill in Staffords early years, so it's basically replacing NB with Cruz for no cost, AND that's not even with the cap increase.

Cruz had 1546 yards in his best season in which he started SEVEN games, showing his versatility to play anywhere and play at a high level. MM has had 1745 in 54 games and is no where near Cruz's SPEED, which is the main reason I want him.

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April 4th, 2013, 9:40 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
Cruz isn't a really good WR because of his speed. He has excelled because of his work ethic, route running, film study, and football IQ. If the Lions were to go after a WR like Cruz they would be better off hoping Hopkins were still there at their 2nd pick. They wouldn't have to give anything up and not overpay for a #2 WR.


April 4th, 2013, 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
Put down the crack pipe guys. This is the last thing the Lions can afford to do. Too many other glaring holes all over the field for them right now. I'm just disappointed that they didn't sign Heyward-Bey. Despite the fact that he didn't necessarily have the greatest hands he would have forced coverage his way due to his speed. I'm just afraid Mayhew wastes another damn 2nd or 3rd rd pick on a WR now.

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April 5th, 2013, 12:29 am
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
Cruz has also said he's looking for $11M/yr and the Giants have only offered him ~$7M/yr

So yes, put down the crack pipe. What team out there has an $11M/yr #2 WR?

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April 5th, 2013, 5:31 am
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
conversion02 wrote:
Cruz has also said he's looking for $11M/yr and the Giants have only offered him ~$7M/yr

So yes, put down the crack pipe. What team out there has an $11M/yr #2 WR?


What team out there has a $150M #1 WR? Oh yeah... :oops:

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April 5th, 2013, 9:14 am
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
The price is high for Cruz but the Lions cannot just sit back and do nothing more with this offense yet expect to improve. It is a pass first offense. They just signed a receiving RB to replace Best. They have a ton invested in Stafford and Johnson. Outside of Bush/Stafford/Johnson where are the good players that the Lions expect to win with? No 2 WR Burleson is coming off a broken leg and was already having trouble getting open anyway, No 3 WR Broyles is coming off consecutive ACLs and even if he s healthy he projects really as a good No 3 WR and not as a No 2 WR. Kris Durham, Mike Thomas, etc all failed in their tryouts last season. TE Pettigrew had his worst season last year - at no point has he been a reliable blocker, he continues to have poor focus and weak hands both for catching or maintaining possession of the ball. Scheffler isnt really a TE so much as an overgrown slot receiver who does occassionally make some decent plays. Offensive line? Dont even get me started there. Unless the Lions come out with an unbelievable yield out of this draft or Stafford becomes Drew Brees its not looking all that great to be a Lions fan in 2013-4.


April 5th, 2013, 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
The Legend wrote:
The price is high for Cruz but the Lions cannot just sit back and do nothing more with this offense yet expect to improve. It is a pass first offense. They just signed a receiving RB to replace Best. They have a ton invested in Stafford and Johnson. Outside of Bush/Stafford/Johnson where are the good players that the Lions expect to win with? No 2 WR Burleson is coming off a broken leg and was already having trouble getting open anyway, No 3 WR Broyles is coming off consecutive ACLs and even if he s healthy he projects really as a good No 3 WR and not as a No 2 WR. Kris Durham, Mike Thomas, etc all failed in their tryouts last season. TE Pettigrew had his worst season last year - at no point has he been a reliable blocker, he continues to have poor focus and weak hands both for catching or maintaining possession of the ball. Scheffler isnt really a TE so much as an overgrown slot receiver who does occassionally make some decent plays. Offensive line? Dont even get me started there. Unless the Lions come out with an unbelievable yield out of this draft or Stafford becomes Drew Brees its not looking all that great to be a Lions fan in 2013-4.


I agree to a small extent.

We NEED a tackle and a guard. If we fill those 2 holes Im optamistic about our offense this year. Mike Thomas is no slouch, he did appear to have trouble getting our offense last year but an offseason to prepare only makes him better. IF we shore up the line we will be able to run the ball and that will help with us not having a true #2 WR.

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April 5th, 2013, 1:21 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
If we fix the OL , we should be solid (because we will be able to not be the #1 pass ATT offense) and can actually run, especially in 3rd/4th and short or goal line situations. If we ever want to contend for a Championship game or Superbowl we need a real #2 as Legend has said (and WJB has yelled about for a few years).


April 5th, 2013, 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
DJ-B wrote:
If we fix the OL , we should be solid (because we will be able to not be the #1 pass ATT offense) and can actually run, especially in 3rd/4th and short or goal line situations. If we ever want to contend for a Championship game or Superbowl we need a real #2 as Legend has said (and WJB has yelled about for a few years).


Agreed, so long as we DO address the 2 holes in the line we ARE competative and far from screwed. (Our D on the other hand....YIKES!)

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April 5th, 2013, 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
You would think the D would get better practicing against the offense Detroit has.

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April 5th, 2013, 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
The Legend wrote:
The price is high for Cruz but the Lions cannot just sit back and do nothing more with this offense yet expect to improve. It is a pass first offense. They just signed a receiving RB to replace Best. They have a ton invested in Stafford and Johnson. Outside of Bush/Stafford/Johnson where are the good players that the Lions expect to win with? No 2 WR Burleson is coming off a broken leg and was already having trouble getting open anyway, No 3 WR Broyles is coming off consecutive ACLs and even if he s healthy he projects really as a good No 3 WR and not as a No 2 WR. Kris Durham, Mike Thomas, etc all failed in their tryouts last season. TE Pettigrew had his worst season last year - at no point has he been a reliable blocker, he continues to have poor focus and weak hands both for catching or maintaining possession of the ball. Scheffler isnt really a TE so much as an overgrown slot receiver who does occassionally make some decent plays. Offensive line? Dont even get me started there. Unless the Lions come out with an unbelievable yield out of this draft or Stafford becomes Drew Brees its not looking all that great to be a Lions fan in 2013-4.


Well, first off the bolded part shows that they aren't "sitting back and doing nothing". With their money invested in high draft picks, the Lions are handcuffed and can't go on a spending spree.

The Lions continue to be a work in progress, mostly due to the ineptitude of the previous administration and the current administration's inability to pull good players from the mid to late rounds. We now have serious question marks with our offensive line (three starters from last year gone, and a center who is over the hill and never was good in the running game), and now we are woefully lacking in the outside pass rusher department. Our secondary was improved with Glover Quin, but we still have serious question marks at corner and at the safety spot opposite Quin. Delmas is about as reliable as Michigan weather.

And I would have to say the outlook isn't going to be too much better after the draft. Martin Mayhew has shown he is gunshy about trading back and once the Lions get into their second selection his picks are shaky, at best. The Lions still have a few players they need to either trade to get their numbers off the cap (Pettigrew) or allow them to simply leave in free agency and move on. The Lions also have to allow the sting of the Best and Titus Young picks to wear off, from a cap perspective, as I believe they both still count some level against our numbers.

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April 8th, 2013, 1:27 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
Pablo wrote:
conversion02 wrote:
Cruz has also said he's looking for $11M/yr and the Giants have only offered him ~$7M/yr

So yes, put down the crack pipe. What team out there has an $11M/yr #2 WR?


What team out there has a $150M #1 WR? Oh yeah... :oops:

nice

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April 8th, 2013, 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
The price is high for Cruz but the Lions cannot just sit back and do nothing more with this offense yet expect to improve. It is a pass first offense. They just signed a receiving RB to replace Best. They have a ton invested in Stafford and Johnson. Outside of Bush/Stafford/Johnson where are the good players that the Lions expect to win with? No 2 WR Burleson is coming off a broken leg and was already having trouble getting open anyway, No 3 WR Broyles is coming off consecutive ACLs and even if he s healthy he projects really as a good No 3 WR and not as a No 2 WR. Kris Durham, Mike Thomas, etc all failed in their tryouts last season. TE Pettigrew had his worst season last year - at no point has he been a reliable blocker, he continues to have poor focus and weak hands both for catching or maintaining possession of the ball. Scheffler isnt really a TE so much as an overgrown slot receiver who does occassionally make some decent plays. Offensive line? Dont even get me started there. Unless the Lions come out with an unbelievable yield out of this draft or Stafford becomes Drew Brees its not looking all that great to be a Lions fan in 2013-4.


Well, first off the bolded part shows that they aren't "sitting back and doing nothing". With their money invested in high draft picks, the Lions are handcuffed and can't go on a spending spree.

The Lions continue to be a work in progress, mostly due to the ineptitude of the previous administration and the current administration's inability to pull good players from the mid to late rounds. We now have serious question marks with our offensive line (three starters from last year gone, and a center who is over the hill and never was good in the running game), and now we are woefully lacking in the outside pass rusher department. Our secondary was improved with Glover Quin, but we still have serious question marks at corner and at the safety spot opposite Quin. Delmas is about as reliable as Michigan weather.

And I would have to say the outlook isn't going to be too much better after the draft. Martin Mayhew has shown he is gunshy about trading back and once the Lions get into their second selection his picks are shaky, at best. The Lions still have a few players they need to either trade to get their numbers off the cap (Pettigrew) or allow them to simply leave in free agency and move on. The Lions also have to allow the sting of the Best and Titus Young picks to wear off, from a cap perspective, as I believe they both still count some level against our numbers.


i actually acknowledged the Bush signing and said "nothing more" rather than "nothing" - you might as well join the media you seem to understand how to intentionally misquote pretty well.

I understand the cap crunch but I question the front office's understanding of the cap situation when they go way overmarket for Levy, Delmas and Houston. Houston isnt much better than many of the other corners that went a little later in free agency and got 1 year deals at a fraction of Houston's yearly price. This defense that they ve tried to fix still has some cavernous holes that havent been addressed. They need 2 starting DEs, an OLB (couldve probably had Durant and another LB better than Levy, both for less than they paid Levy), and another CB. Maybe they can fill some of these holes from within but you would think they should ve played Whitehead or T Lewis, not placed Greenwood on PUP and got him some time. Similar situations on the offensive line with Hilliard, Fox, Austin not getting any PT and Reiff playing in an unusual role. They really didnt help themselves project for this offseason with the way they used soon to be cut veterans in the last few games when out of the playoff hunt and now it just looks like a leap of faith to expect all of these opening starter spots to be filled by inexperienced lowly drafted players. You have to believe that the Lions have one of the top scouting departments in the NFL.


April 9th, 2013, 9:50 am
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
The price is high for Cruz but the Lions cannot just sit back and do nothing more with this offense yet expect to improve. It is a pass first offense. They just signed a receiving RB to replace Best. They have a ton invested in Stafford and Johnson. Outside of Bush/Stafford/Johnson where are the good players that the Lions expect to win with? No 2 WR Burleson is coming off a broken leg and was already having trouble getting open anyway, No 3 WR Broyles is coming off consecutive ACLs and even if he s healthy he projects really as a good No 3 WR and not as a No 2 WR. Kris Durham, Mike Thomas, etc all failed in their tryouts last season. TE Pettigrew had his worst season last year - at no point has he been a reliable blocker, he continues to have poor focus and weak hands both for catching or maintaining possession of the ball. Scheffler isnt really a TE so much as an overgrown slot receiver who does occassionally make some decent plays. Offensive line? Dont even get me started there. Unless the Lions come out with an unbelievable yield out of this draft or Stafford becomes Drew Brees its not looking all that great to be a Lions fan in 2013-4.


Well, first off the bolded part shows that they aren't "sitting back and doing nothing". With their money invested in high draft picks, the Lions are handcuffed and can't go on a spending spree.

The Lions continue to be a work in progress, mostly due to the ineptitude of the previous administration and the current administration's inability to pull good players from the mid to late rounds. We now have serious question marks with our offensive line (three starters from last year gone, and a center who is over the hill and never was good in the running game), and now we are woefully lacking in the outside pass rusher department. Our secondary was improved with Glover Quin, but we still have serious question marks at corner and at the safety spot opposite Quin. Delmas is about as reliable as Michigan weather.

And I would have to say the outlook isn't going to be too much better after the draft. Martin Mayhew has shown he is gunshy about trading back and once the Lions get into their second selection his picks are shaky, at best. The Lions still have a few players they need to either trade to get their numbers off the cap (Pettigrew) or allow them to simply leave in free agency and move on. The Lions also have to allow the sting of the Best and Titus Young picks to wear off, from a cap perspective, as I believe they both still count some level against our numbers.


i actually acknowledged the Bush signing and said "nothing more" rather than "nothing" - you might as well join the media you seem to understand how to intentionally misquote pretty well.

I understand the cap crunch but I question the front office's understanding of the cap situation when they go way overmarket for Levy, Delmas and Houston. Houston isnt much better than many of the other corners that went a little later in free agency and got 1 year deals at a fraction of Houston's yearly price. This defense that they ve tried to fix still has some cavernous holes that havent been addressed. They need 2 starting DEs, an OLB (couldve probably had Durant and another LB better than Levy, both for less than they paid Levy), and another CB. Maybe they can fill some of these holes from within but you would think they should ve played Whitehead or T Lewis, not placed Greenwood on PUP and got him some time. Similar situations on the offensive line with Hilliard, Fox, Austin not getting any PT and Reiff playing in an unusual role. They really didnt help themselves project for this offseason with the way they used soon to be cut veterans in the last few games when out of the playoff hunt and now it just looks like a leap of faith to expect all of these opening starter spots to be filled by inexperienced lowly drafted players. You have to believe that the Lions have one of the top scouting departments in the NFL.


What is bad about the Delmas deal? He's costing them $2M this season and if he doesn't workout they can cut him next season for only 500k. They could even cut him during this season and still get back $1M in cap space or $1.5M since his dead money could be split.

They needed to bring back Houston because he is the only guy at CB that has actually played more than a season with the team. Also just because another team signed a veteran on the cheap doesn't mean they were an option for the Lions. FAs actually choose where they go and I really don't see much reason for a defensive player to what to come to DET when the D has so many holes.

I agree Levy was overpaid and with Tulloch still in the middle I think they should have just let Levy walk with Durant. Durant still had to go because he is about as dynamic as a piece of wonder bread, but Levy doesn't add much more and he's not as good of a tackler.


April 9th, 2013, 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
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What is bad about the Delmas deal? He's costing them $2M this season and if he doesn't workout they can cut him next season for only 500k. They could even cut him during this season and still get back $1M in cap space or $1.5M since his dead money could be split.

They needed to bring back Houston because he is the only guy at CB that has actually played more than a season with the team. Also just because another team signed a veteran on the cheap doesn't mean they were an option for the Lions. FAs actually choose where they go and I really don't see much reason for a defensive player to what to come to DET when the D has so many holes.

I agree Levy was overpaid and with Tulloch still in the middle I think they should have just let Levy walk with Durant. Durant still had to go because he is about as dynamic as a piece of wonder bread, but Levy doesn't add much more and he's not as good of a tackler.


Delmas rarely plays despite not having had a major injury so no matter how they structured the deal 2yrs/9mill just doesnt look right. He ll always be dinged up. As for Houston, Im happy he s back too but why did they have to give him 5yrs/$25mill when players like Deangelo Hall, Antoine Cason got 1yr/$1.5 mill. Its a big overpay, something the Lions shouldnt do when they are in a tight cap situation. Hell, Im not happy with the $2mill they gave Willie Young who has had almost ZERO production in 4 seasons. They could have given Hall and Cason an extra $1million per year each on there contracts and been better off at corner. They could have saved about $2million/year in space by keeping Durant instead of Levy, saved the $2million on Young and then gotten someone like William Hayes who s actually had production as a DE and paid him more than what he got to stay in STL as a backup. The Lions needed to do better in Free Agency than they did to have a balanced playoff caliber roster. I feel like they didnt fully understand the market and overpaid in some places that caused them to ignore some holes on there roster. They should get two impact players in the draft and maybe another starter in the post draft free agency period but then again in the last two drafts they ve only gotten one starter (and no impact players) so consider me skeptical. Im definitely not re-upping my season tickets based on whats been done so far.


April 9th, 2013, 6:05 pm
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