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 Victor Cruz 
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
What is bad about the Delmas deal? He's costing them $2M this season and if he doesn't workout they can cut him next season for only 500k. They could even cut him during this season and still get back $1M in cap space or $1.5M since his dead money could be split.

They needed to bring back Houston because he is the only guy at CB that has actually played more than a season with the team. Also just because another team signed a veteran on the cheap doesn't mean they were an option for the Lions. FAs actually choose where they go and I really don't see much reason for a defensive player to what to come to DET when the D has so many holes.

I agree Levy was overpaid and with Tulloch still in the middle I think they should have just let Levy walk with Durant. Durant still had to go because he is about as dynamic as a piece of wonder bread, but Levy doesn't add much more and he's not as good of a tackler.


Delmas rarely plays despite not having had a major injury so no matter how they structured the deal 2yrs/9mill just doesnt look right. He ll always be dinged up. As for Houston, Im happy he s back too but why did they have to give him 5yrs/$25mill when players like Deangelo Hall, Antoine Cason got 1yr/$1.5 mill. Its a big overpay, something the Lions shouldnt do when they are in a tight cap situation. Hell, Im not happy with the $2mill they gave Willie Young who has had almost ZERO production in 4 seasons. They could have given Hall and Cason an extra $1million per year each on there contracts and been better off at corner. They could have saved about $2million/year in space by keeping Durant instead of Levy, saved the $2million on Young and then gotten someone like William Hayes who s actually had production as a DE and paid him more than what he got to stay in STL as a backup. The Lions needed to do better in Free Agency than they did to have a balanced playoff caliber roster. I feel like they didnt fully understand the market and overpaid in some places that caused them to ignore some holes on there roster. They should get two impact players in the draft and maybe another starter in the post draft free agency period but then again in the last two drafts they ve only gotten one starter (and no impact players) so consider me skeptical. Im definitely not re-upping my season tickets based on whats been done so far.


Like I said... IMO Delmas plays in 10 games next year +/- 2, plays dinged up for a few of those 10, and puts up mediocre stats. Enough to keep him around, not enough to be great, and we bring him back next season for most of his contract. What's worse, we'll probably try to "restructure" his deal, or extend him to "cut his cap number" and further our screwing.

Delmas' deal makes Ed Reeds deal look like a steal, IMO.

Willie Young's contract is ridiculous. We should have told him to pound sand, not brought in Jones and signed Bennett and been done with it. If we were going to bring back Young we should have signed him to something like a 3yr. $3 million dollar deal (or less). There is no good case scenario on his current contract. He plays like crap and we blew $2 mill, or he plays great and he's worth $6 and we can't afford him.


April 9th, 2013, 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
What is bad about the Delmas deal? He's costing them $2M this season and if he doesn't workout they can cut him next season for only 500k. They could even cut him during this season and still get back $1M in cap space or $1.5M since his dead money could be split.

They needed to bring back Houston because he is the only guy at CB that has actually played more than a season with the team. Also just because another team signed a veteran on the cheap doesn't mean they were an option for the Lions. FAs actually choose where they go and I really don't see much reason for a defensive player to what to come to DET when the D has so many holes.

I agree Levy was overpaid and with Tulloch still in the middle I think they should have just let Levy walk with Durant. Durant still had to go because he is about as dynamic as a piece of wonder bread, but Levy doesn't add much more and he's not as good of a tackler.


Delmas rarely plays despite not having had a major injury so no matter how they structured the deal 2yrs/9mill just doesnt look right. He ll always be dinged up. As for Houston, Im happy he s back too but why did they have to give him 5yrs/$25mill when players like Deangelo Hall, Antoine Cason got 1yr/$1.5 mill. Its a big overpay, something the Lions shouldnt do when they are in a tight cap situation. Hell, Im not happy with the $2mill they gave Willie Young who has had almost ZERO production in 4 seasons. They could have given Hall and Cason an extra $1million per year each on there contracts and been better off at corner. They could have saved about $2million/year in space by keeping Durant instead of Levy, saved the $2million on Young and then gotten someone like William Hayes who s actually had production as a DE and paid him more than what he got to stay in STL as a backup. The Lions needed to do better in Free Agency than they did to have a balanced playoff caliber roster. I feel like they didnt fully understand the market and overpaid in some places that caused them to ignore some holes on there roster. They should get two impact players in the draft and maybe another starter in the post draft free agency period but then again in the last two drafts they ve only gotten one starter (and no impact players) so consider me skeptical. Im definitely not re-upping my season tickets based on whats been done so far.


Like I said... IMO Delmas plays in 10 games next year +/- 2, plays dinged up for a few of those 10, and puts up mediocre stats. Enough to keep him around, not enough to be great, and we bring him back next season for most of his contract. What's worse, we'll probably try to "restructure" his deal, or extend him to "cut his cap number" and further our screwing.

Delmas' deal makes Ed Reeds deal look like a steal, IMO.

Willie Young's contract is ridiculous. We should have told him to pound sand, not brought in Jones and signed Bennett and been done with it. If we were going to bring back Young we should have signed him to something like a 3yr. $3 million dollar deal (or less). There is no good case scenario on his current contract. He plays like crap and we blew $2 mill, or he plays great and he's worth $6 and we can't afford him.


Sounds about right to me.

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April 9th, 2013, 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
What is bad about the Delmas deal? He's costing them $2M this season and if he doesn't workout they can cut him next season for only 500k. They could even cut him during this season and still get back $1M in cap space or $1.5M since his dead money could be split.

They needed to bring back Houston because he is the only guy at CB that has actually played more than a season with the team. Also just because another team signed a veteran on the cheap doesn't mean they were an option for the Lions. FAs actually choose where they go and I really don't see much reason for a defensive player to what to come to DET when the D has so many holes.

I agree Levy was overpaid and with Tulloch still in the middle I think they should have just let Levy walk with Durant. Durant still had to go because he is about as dynamic as a piece of wonder bread, but Levy doesn't add much more and he's not as good of a tackler.


Delmas rarely plays despite not having had a major injury so no matter how they structured the deal 2yrs/9mill just doesnt look right. He ll always be dinged up. As for Houston, Im happy he s back too but why did they have to give him 5yrs/$25mill when players like Deangelo Hall, Antoine Cason got 1yr/$1.5 mill. Its a big overpay, something the Lions shouldnt do when they are in a tight cap situation. Hell, Im not happy with the $2mill they gave Willie Young who has had almost ZERO production in 4 seasons. They could have given Hall and Cason an extra $1million per year each on there contracts and been better off at corner. They could have saved about $2million/year in space by keeping Durant instead of Levy, saved the $2million on Young and then gotten someone like William Hayes who s actually had production as a DE and paid him more than what he got to stay in STL as a backup. The Lions needed to do better in Free Agency than they did to have a balanced playoff caliber roster. I feel like they didnt fully understand the market and overpaid in some places that caused them to ignore some holes on there roster. They should get two impact players in the draft and maybe another starter in the post draft free agency period but then again in the last two drafts they ve only gotten one starter (and no impact players) so consider me skeptical. Im definitely not re-upping my season tickets based on whats been done so far.


Like I said... IMO Delmas plays in 10 games next year +/- 2, plays dinged up for a few of those 10, and puts up mediocre stats. Enough to keep him around, not enough to be great, and we bring him back next season for most of his contract. What's worse, we'll probably try to "restructure" his deal, or extend him to "cut his cap number" and further our screwing.

Delmas' deal makes Ed Reeds deal look like a steal, IMO.

Willie Young's contract is ridiculous. We should have told him to pound sand, not brought in Jones and signed Bennett and been done with it. If we were going to bring back Young we should have signed him to something like a 3yr. $3 million dollar deal (or less). There is no good case scenario on his current contract. He plays like crap and we blew $2 mill, or he plays great and he's worth $6 and we can't afford him.


The Lions making a dumb decision later doesn't make the deal bad. The deal is sound and is set up to pay him what he's worth while letting him feel like he got what he thinks he's worth.

What Ed Reed got means nothing. Not only was he never coming to DET he also would have been an awful fit. The Ravens didn't even want to pay him what Houston offered and they obviously know him better than anyone.

Willie Young's contract is bad in hindsight, but you don't get to tender RFAs after people start signing with teams. No one expected DEs to get paid so little this season and if spending hadn't gone down his contract would look only slightly high. The main reason he got what he did was they didn't want to lose him for a 7th rd pick and Young had no reason to sign a low cost deal.


April 9th, 2013, 8:58 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
As ar as I can remember, Delmas only has a 2 year deal. Hence there is no kicking the an down the road ( toootally stealing WJB's line there lol) next year on his contract. If Delmas plays well, you will see the F.O. Renew hs contract to a lnger term deal. If e is hurt again, he will be cut next offseason. Either option s cheap as heck. There s nothing wrong with his contract from a lions point of view......nothing.


April 9th, 2013, 10:59 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
regularjoe12 wrote:
As ar as I can remember, Delmas only has a 2 year deal. Hence there is no kicking the an down the road ( toootally stealing WJB's line there lol) next year on his contract. If Delmas plays well, you will see the F.O. Renew hs contract to a lnger term deal. If e is hurt again, he will be cut next offseason. Either option s cheap as heck. There s nothing wrong with his contract from a lions point of view......nothing.


What's "wrong" with it is the $6.5 million he's due next year is grossly over-paid, and with the way Mayhew "negotiates" contracts, he's likely to SEE that money. Sure there's an insurance policy built in if he grossly underperforms, or if he has a catastrophic injury, but that aside, Delmas will see that money, and he's not worth it, period.


April 10th, 2013, 1:06 am
Post Re: Victor Cruz
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
What is bad about the Delmas deal? He's costing them $2M this season and if he doesn't workout they can cut him next season for only 500k. They could even cut him during this season and still get back $1M in cap space or $1.5M since his dead money could be split.

They needed to bring back Houston because he is the only guy at CB that has actually played more than a season with the team. Also just because another team signed a veteran on the cheap doesn't mean they were an option for the Lions. FAs actually choose where they go and I really don't see much reason for a defensive player to what to come to DET when the D has so many holes.

I agree Levy was overpaid and with Tulloch still in the middle I think they should have just let Levy walk with Durant. Durant still had to go because he is about as dynamic as a piece of wonder bread, but Levy doesn't add much more and he's not as good of a tackler.


Delmas rarely plays despite not having had a major injury so no matter how they structured the deal 2yrs/9mill just doesnt look right. He ll always be dinged up. As for Houston, Im happy he s back too but why did they have to give him 5yrs/$25mill when players like Deangelo Hall, Antoine Cason got 1yr/$1.5 mill. Its a big overpay, something the Lions shouldnt do when they are in a tight cap situation. Hell, Im not happy with the $2mill they gave Willie Young who has had almost ZERO production in 4 seasons. They could have given Hall and Cason an extra $1million per year each on there contracts and been better off at corner. They could have saved about $2million/year in space by keeping Durant instead of Levy, saved the $2million on Young and then gotten someone like William Hayes who s actually had production as a DE and paid him more than what he got to stay in STL as a backup. The Lions needed to do better in Free Agency than they did to have a balanced playoff caliber roster. I feel like they didnt fully understand the market and overpaid in some places that caused them to ignore some holes on there roster. They should get two impact players in the draft and maybe another starter in the post draft free agency period but then again in the last two drafts they ve only gotten one starter (and no impact players) so consider me skeptical. Im definitely not re-upping my season tickets based on whats been done so far.


Like I said... IMO Delmas plays in 10 games next year +/- 2, plays dinged up for a few of those 10, and puts up mediocre stats. Enough to keep him around, not enough to be great, and we bring him back next season for most of his contract. What's worse, we'll probably try to "restructure" his deal, or extend him to "cut his cap number" and further our screwing.

Delmas' deal makes Ed Reeds deal look like a steal, IMO.

Willie Young's contract is ridiculous. We should have told him to pound sand, not brought in Jones and signed Bennett and been done with it. If we were going to bring back Young we should have signed him to something like a 3yr. $3 million dollar deal (or less). There is no good case scenario on his current contract. He plays like crap and we blew $2 mill, or he plays great and he's worth $6 and we can't afford him.


The Lions making a dumb decision later doesn't make the deal bad. The deal is sound and is set up to pay him what he's worth while letting him feel like he got what he thinks he's worth.

What Ed Reed got means nothing. Not only was he never coming to DET he also would have been an awful fit. The Ravens didn't even want to pay him what Houston offered and they obviously know him better than anyone.

Willie Young's contract is bad in hindsight, but you don't get to tender RFAs after people start signing with teams. No one expected DEs to get paid so little this season and if spending hadn't gone down his contract would look only slightly high. The main reason he got what he did was they didn't want to lose him for a 7th rd pick and Young had no reason to sign a low cost deal.


When would making the dumb deal make it bad? I've outlined multiple times why it's a bad K, time will tell if my "crystal ball" is as clear as it has been. I'll be surprised in a good way if the K doesn't play out like I think it will.

Who knows if Reed would have came here. Would we have had to outbid Texas? YUP! But that doesn't mean it would have had to have been by much. Reed is worth it, especially on a team that lacks leadership.

I called Willie Young's contract stupid as soon as I heard the tender amount. It doesn't matter what DE's got later on in FA, he's not worth $2M, even if a "star" is getting $10. He's a crappy backup player that failed to step up in the final year of his "developmental" deal. He's not worth more than $1M per. I was extremely disappointed by his play last year.


April 10th, 2013, 1:09 am
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
As ar as I can remember, Delmas only has a 2 year deal. Hence there is no kicking the an down the road ( toootally stealing WJB's line there lol) next year on his contract. If Delmas plays well, you will see the F.O. Renew hs contract to a lnger term deal. If e is hurt again, he will be cut next offseason. Either option s cheap as heck. There s nothing wrong with his contract from a lions point of view......nothing.


What's "wrong" with it is the $6.5 million he's due next year is grossly over-paid, and with the way Mayhew "negotiates" contracts, he's likely to SEE that money. Sure there's an insurance policy built in if he grossly underperforms, or if he has a catastrophic injury, but that aside, Delmas will see that money, and he's not worth it, period.


Well, what happens next year is just speculation at this point. My point is that as it stands today, the Lions are paying a pretty fair amount to see if Delmas can stay healthy all year. If he can I would also argue that he is worth 6.5 a year...I just dont think he can stay healthy...


April 10th, 2013, 9:38 am
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
What is bad about the Delmas deal? He's costing them $2M this season and if he doesn't workout they can cut him next season for only 500k. They could even cut him during this season and still get back $1M in cap space or $1.5M since his dead money could be split.

They needed to bring back Houston because he is the only guy at CB that has actually played more than a season with the team. Also just because another team signed a veteran on the cheap doesn't mean they were an option for the Lions. FAs actually choose where they go and I really don't see much reason for a defensive player to what to come to DET when the D has so many holes.

I agree Levy was overpaid and with Tulloch still in the middle I think they should have just let Levy walk with Durant. Durant still had to go because he is about as dynamic as a piece of wonder bread, but Levy doesn't add much more and he's not as good of a tackler.


Delmas rarely plays despite not having had a major injury so no matter how they structured the deal 2yrs/9mill just doesnt look right. He ll always be dinged up. As for Houston, Im happy he s back too but why did they have to give him 5yrs/$25mill when players like Deangelo Hall, Antoine Cason got 1yr/$1.5 mill. Its a big overpay, something the Lions shouldnt do when they are in a tight cap situation. Hell, Im not happy with the $2mill they gave Willie Young who has had almost ZERO production in 4 seasons. They could have given Hall and Cason an extra $1million per year each on there contracts and been better off at corner. They could have saved about $2million/year in space by keeping Durant instead of Levy, saved the $2million on Young and then gotten someone like William Hayes who s actually had production as a DE and paid him more than what he got to stay in STL as a backup. The Lions needed to do better in Free Agency than they did to have a balanced playoff caliber roster. I feel like they didnt fully understand the market and overpaid in some places that caused them to ignore some holes on there roster. They should get two impact players in the draft and maybe another starter in the post draft free agency period but then again in the last two drafts they ve only gotten one starter (and no impact players) so consider me skeptical. Im definitely not re-upping my season tickets based on whats been done so far.


Like I said... IMO Delmas plays in 10 games next year +/- 2, plays dinged up for a few of those 10, and puts up mediocre stats. Enough to keep him around, not enough to be great, and we bring him back next season for most of his contract. What's worse, we'll probably try to "restructure" his deal, or extend him to "cut his cap number" and further our screwing.

Delmas' deal makes Ed Reeds deal look like a steal, IMO.

Willie Young's contract is ridiculous. We should have told him to pound sand, not brought in Jones and signed Bennett and been done with it. If we were going to bring back Young we should have signed him to something like a 3yr. $3 million dollar deal (or less). There is no good case scenario on his current contract. He plays like crap and we blew $2 mill, or he plays great and he's worth $6 and we can't afford him.


The Lions making a dumb decision later doesn't make the deal bad. The deal is sound and is set up to pay him what he's worth while letting him feel like he got what he thinks he's worth.

What Ed Reed got means nothing. Not only was he never coming to DET he also would have been an awful fit. The Ravens didn't even want to pay him what Houston offered and they obviously know him better than anyone.

Willie Young's contract is bad in hindsight, but you don't get to tender RFAs after people start signing with teams. No one expected DEs to get paid so little this season and if spending hadn't gone down his contract would look only slightly high. The main reason he got what he did was they didn't want to lose him for a 7th rd pick and Young had no reason to sign a low cost deal.


When would making the dumb deal make it bad? I've outlined multiple times why it's a bad K, time will tell if my "crystal ball" is as clear as it has been. I'll be surprised in a good way if the K doesn't play out like I think it will.

Who knows if Reed would have came here. Would we have had to outbid Texas? YUP! But that doesn't mean it would have had to have been by much. Reed is worth it, especially on a team that lacks leadership.

I called Willie Young's contract stupid as soon as I heard the tender amount. It doesn't matter what DE's got later on in FA, he's not worth $2M, even if a "star" is getting $10. He's a crappy backup player that failed to step up in the final year of his "developmental" deal. He's not worth more than $1M per. I was extremely disappointed by his play last year.


Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


April 10th, 2013, 11:53 am
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


April 10th, 2013, 12:08 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Your analogy is more ridiculous than Young's contract. There is virtually no guaranteed money on the contract if at any point it becomes a hindrance it can be cut for almost no loss. The contract posses no danger to the Lions, the only way it becomes an issue is if Mayhew goes back in and changes it to something bad.

The deal was obviously created as a one year deal and Mayhew has shown he has no problem cutting players or letting them go in his 4 years for the Lions. 2012 was the only year they haven't had changes to the personnel and he admitted it was a mistake.

Young's not fleecing them he can still be cut if they are able to sign someone better(which I don't think is difficult), so they still have a lot of control and the off season is still very early. Mayhew could also still just use the current market to pressure Young into signing a more team friendly long term deal, but I don't think that would be something that would happen until after the draft is over.


April 10th, 2013, 12:56 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Your analogy is more ridiculous than Young's contract. There is virtually no guaranteed money on the contract if at any point it becomes a hindrance it can be cut for almost no loss. The contract posses no danger to the Lions, the only way it becomes an issue is if Mayhew goes back in and changes it to something bad.

The deal was obviously created as a one year deal and Mayhew has shown he has no problem cutting players or letting them go in his 4 years for the Lions. 2012 was the only year they haven't had changes to the personnel and he admitted it was a mistake.

Young's not fleecing them he can still be cut if they are able to sign someone better(which I don't think is difficult), so they still have a lot of control and the off season is still very early. Mayhew could also still just use the current market to pressure Young into signing a more team friendly long term deal, but I don't think that would be something that would happen until after the draft is over.


My reference about the contract being bad was in reference to Delmas, which was a continuation of or prior discussion. I figured you'd pick that up by the multi year discussion.

Young is fleecing the Lions if he plays the whole year on that deal. He's not worth $2M to this team.


April 10th, 2013, 1:04 pm
Butkus Award Winner

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 am
Posts: 641
Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Just a few points, Delmas' contract is largely based on how many games he plays. The VERY MOST he can make over 2 years is $8,590,000 ( http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/louis-delmas/ ). On top of that, the 49ers were chasing him, so a sense of urgency was needed. We couldn't just sit around and wait and risk him leaving us with 1 good safety and no true depth. The Giants, IMO, have the best front office in the league (by far) and they gave Antrel Rolle $7 mill a year for five years, and I think Delmas is better when 100% healthy.

About WY, why not pay him $2M for 1 year? It's a prove it or leave year for him and he was a restricted FA. Had we not resigned him, I don't think it would've made much difference as to if we could sign another sought-after FA. Freeney is the only guy I can think of, and we can still get him if he'll take something like 2 years, $12, maybe 13 million.

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April 10th, 2013, 1:06 pm
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Post Re: Victor Cruz
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Just a few points, Delmas' contract is largely based on how many games he plays. The VERY MOST he can make over 2 years is $8,590,000 ( http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/louis-delmas/ ). On top of that, the 49ers were chasing him, so a sense of urgency was needed. We couldn't just sit around and wait and risk him leaving us with 1 good safety and no true depth. The Giants, IMO, have the best front office in the league (by far) and they gave Antrel Rolle $7 mill a year for five years, and I think Delmas is better when 100% healthy.

About WY, why not pay him $2M for 1 year? It's a prove it or leave year for him and he was a restricted FA. Had we not resigned him, I don't think it would've made much difference as to if we could sign another sought-after FA. Freeney is the only guy I can think of, and we can still get him if he'll take something like 2 years, $12, maybe 13 million.


I really don't see your point about Delmas' contract.

Willie Young is a backup DE with moderate amounts of "potential" (very little upside at 28 years old, with a career total of something like 3.5 sacks in 3 years). He's a depth player at best, and he's not worth $2M a year, period.


April 10th, 2013, 1:22 pm
Butkus Award Winner

Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 2:06 am
Posts: 641
Post Re: Victor Cruz
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Just a few points, Delmas' contract is largely based on how many games he plays. The VERY MOST he can make over 2 years is $8,590,000 ( http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/louis-delmas/ ). On top of that, the 49ers were chasing him, so a sense of urgency was needed. We couldn't just sit around and wait and risk him leaving us with 1 good safety and no true depth. The Giants, IMO, have the best front office in the league (by far) and they gave Antrel Rolle $7 mill a year for five years, and I think Delmas is better when 100% healthy.

About WY, why not pay him $2M for 1 year? It's a prove it or leave year for him and he was a restricted FA. Had we not resigned him, I don't think it would've made much difference as to if we could sign another sought-after FA. Freeney is the only guy I can think of, and we can still get him if he'll take something like 2 years, $12, maybe 13 million.


I really don't see your point about Delmas' contract.

Willie Young is a backup DE with moderate amounts of "potential" (very little upside at 28 years old, with a career total of something like 3.5 sacks in 3 years). He's a depth player at best, and he's not worth $2M a year, period.


My point about Delmas' contract is he won't actually be making $4.5 mill a year unless he plays 42% of the snaps of every game. If he's the china doll you think he is, he'll barely make anything as he's never healthy.

When we have no quality depth at DE, I see nothing at all wrong with paying a 3-year player $2 million when you can release him mid-season, and you still have $10 million after giving him that contract. I think he was one of the worst backup DEs I have seen in a long time last year, so in no way do I like him much as a player, but I'd rather give him $2M than let him go.

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April 10th, 2013, 1:28 pm
Profile
Post Re: Victor Cruz
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
Nothing you ever outline makes the contract bad, you always just say what you think the Lions will do and say the contract is bad because Mayhew will make the wrong decision. You being right about Mayhew still doesn't make the contract bad, it just gives more proof that they need a new GM. The contract leaves a lot of leverage for the Lions come next season and that's a good contract.

Ed Reeds leadership is not worth 6M+/yr. He doesn't fit the defense, so leadership and a shadow of the old ed reed playing out of position is all you were going to get from him. He also spends most of the season on the trainers table and in games playing hindered by injuries now due to his age.

This was Young's second season of actual game time, he had a promising season in 2011 and slumped in 2012. Its not odd at all for a player to slump their sophomore season. His $2M deal isn't a huge overpayment and they got to keep one of their few prospects that has shown anything.


That's like saying a nuclear bomb isn't bad, but it can be bad in the hands of Kim Jon Un....

Mayhew is going to be the one executing the contract through its entirety, thus, it is a bad deal... If we fire him and pick up a new Gm, I'll change my position on Delmas' contract, and I guaranty you the handling of Delmas' deal would be different under different administration. Under a competent administration, there is no way Delmas sees more than $4.5M next year, unless he's healthy for 16 games, AND plays like a damn all-star. Mayhew doesn't have those type of stones to negotiate that deal, without getting hosed.

Young's deal was flat our ridiculous. He may be a "prospect" but he isn't young. He'll be 28 this September, he isn't likely going to get any better at his position. I wouldn't have minded signing him to a 3 year, min salary that capped him at around $1M this year (or less) and allowed to cut him with little to no consequence (Max $500k cap hit next year). Anything more than that is flat out ridiculous, including the $2M he's currently fleecing us for.


Just a few points, Delmas' contract is largely based on how many games he plays. The VERY MOST he can make over 2 years is $8,590,000 ( http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/louis-delmas/ ). On top of that, the 49ers were chasing him, so a sense of urgency was needed. We couldn't just sit around and wait and risk him leaving us with 1 good safety and no true depth. The Giants, IMO, have the best front office in the league (by far) and they gave Antrel Rolle $7 mill a year for five years, and I think Delmas is better when 100% healthy.

About WY, why not pay him $2M for 1 year? It's a prove it or leave year for him and he was a restricted FA. Had we not resigned him, I don't think it would've made much difference as to if we could sign another sought-after FA. Freeney is the only guy I can think of, and we can still get him if he'll take something like 2 years, $12, maybe 13 million.


I really don't see your point about Delmas' contract.

Willie Young is a backup DE with moderate amounts of "potential" (very little upside at 28 years old, with a career total of something like 3.5 sacks in 3 years). He's a depth player at best, and he's not worth $2M a year, period.


My point about Delmas' contract is he won't actually be making $4.5 mill a year unless he plays 42% of the snaps of every game. If he's the china doll you think he is, he'll barely make anything as he's never healthy.

When we have no quality depth at DE, I see nothing at all wrong with paying a 3-year player $2 million when you can release him mid-season, and you still have $10 million after giving him that contract. I think he was one of the worst backup DEs I have seen in a long time last year, so in no way do I like him much as a player, but I'd rather give him $2M than let him go.



That makes one of us... For $2M we could have signed a quality FA. Hell Durant signed for less... I would have rather had a quality FA at any position, and drafted Young's replacement than pay Young $2M. It's not a good use of resources, no matter how you try to spin it.


April 10th, 2013, 2:13 pm
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