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 DE's 
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Post DE's
I believe (and I doubt I'm alone in this) that the Lions NEED to draft at least 2 DE's in this years draft. With that being said, I thought I would voice my perspective on possible options for the Lions in this years draft. Early first round possible options Ansah and Jordan, look like reaches to me. Both have great athleticism and upside to develop. While Jordan has much more experience, Ansah has the size, but is awfully green. After those two, Werner seems to be the next in line, but is not a top 5 pick. The group of DE's that should be on the board at the top of the second round don't seem to me to be any more impressive than players they could get in the 3rd to 5th rounds. Margus Hunt is green and would be a 26 year old rookie, Tank Carridine is coming off injury, and would be a 24 year old rookie. Of all the DE's listed in this range, Alex Okafor is the only one that warrants consideration, IMO. But at pick 36 he appears to be a reach also.
So, to me the Lions best options will come in the 3rd to 6th rounds, and my favorites are - 3rd to 4th - Cornelius Washington 6-4, 265 Georgia, Malliciah Goodman 6-4, 276 Clemson, and 5th to 6th Quanterus Smith 6-5, 250 Western Kentucky, William Gholston 6-6, 281 Michigan State.
That's my take. What's yours?


April 16th, 2013, 11:14 am
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Post Re: DE's
liontrax wrote:
I believe (and I doubt I'm alone in this) that the Lions NEED to draft at least 2 DE's in this years draft. With that being said, I thought I would voice my perspective on possible options for the Lions in this years draft. Early first round possible options Ansah and Jordan, look like reaches to me. Both have great athleticism and upside to develop. While Jordan has much more experience, Ansah has the size, but is awfully green. After those two, Werner seems to be the next in line, but is not a top 5 pick. The group of DE's that should be on the board at the top of the second round don't seem to me to be any more impressive than players they could get in the 3rd to 5th rounds. Margus Hunt is green and would be a 26 year old rookie, Tank Carridine is coming off injury, and would be a 24 year old rookie. Of all the DE's listed in this range, Alex Okafor is the only one that warrants consideration, IMO. But at pick 36 he appears to be a reach also.
So, to me the Lions best options will come in the 3rd to 6th rounds, and my favorites are - 3rd to 4th - Cornelius Washington 6-4, 265 Georgia, Malliciah Goodman 6-4, 276 Clemson, and 5th to 6th Quanterus Smith 6-5, 250 Western Kentucky, William Gholston 6-6, 281 Michigan State.
That's my take. What's yours?


I don't see the point in drafting more than 1 DE. Anyone not better than Lewis/Young is just going to make the practice squad. Who do you want to give up on?


April 16th, 2013, 11:22 am
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Post Re: DE's
On top of that, do you really expect a 5th or 6th rd rookie DE to come in and start? I agree we should only be picking 1 out of the draft, and we cant rely on them to be a starting caliber player unless they are a top 3 rd pick. I think what we are looking for (or at least hope) is they go OT in Rd 1, then look for a rd1 DE that slips to 2-4 or a rd 2 DE that slips to 3-3. if we don't get 1 there, Mayhew will probably have to sign multiple vets to find 1 (or 2) other starting quality DEs (Im not sure we have any on the roster)


April 16th, 2013, 11:27 am
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Post Re: DE's
DJ-B wrote:
On top of that, do you really expect a 5th or 6th rd rookie DE to come in and start? I agree we should only be picking 1 out of the draft, and we cant rely on them to be a starting caliber player unless they are a top 3 rd pick. I think what we are looking for (or at least hope) is they go OT in Rd 1, then look for a rd1 DE that slips to 2-4 or a rd 2 DE that slips to 3-3. if we don't get 1 there, Mayhew will probably have to sign multiple vets to find 1 (or 2) other starting quality DEs (Im not sure we have any on the roster)


IMO we should either take a DE in the 2nd round OR the 5th or later. I don't see the point in a 1/2 step. If we take someone in the 2nd, I would assume that Willie Young is gone (Ronnel is still cheap), if we take someone in the 5th or later, prepare to have them play on the practice squad (and risk having them stolen from us).


April 16th, 2013, 12:46 pm
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Post Re: DE's
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
I believe (and I doubt I'm alone in this) that the Lions NEED to draft at least 2 DE's in this years draft. With that being said, I thought I would voice my perspective on possible options for the Lions in this years draft. Early first round possible options Ansah and Jordan, look like reaches to me. Both have great athleticism and upside to develop. While Jordan has much more experience, Ansah has the size, but is awfully green. After those two, Werner seems to be the next in line, but is not a top 5 pick. The group of DE's that should be on the board at the top of the second round don't seem to me to be any more impressive than players they could get in the 3rd to 5th rounds. Margus Hunt is green and would be a 26 year old rookie, Tank Carridine is coming off injury, and would be a 24 year old rookie. Of all the DE's listed in this range, Alex Okafor is the only one that warrants consideration, IMO. But at pick 36 he appears to be a reach also.
So, to me the Lions best options will come in the 3rd to 6th rounds, and my favorites are - 3rd to 4th - Cornelius Washington 6-4, 265 Georgia, Malliciah Goodman 6-4, 276 Clemson, and 5th to 6th Quanterus Smith 6-5, 250 Western Kentucky, William Gholston 6-6, 281 Michigan State.
That's my take. What's yours?


I don't see the point in drafting more than 1 DE. Anyone not better than Lewis/Young is just going to make the practice squad. Who do you want to give up on?


Why not take 2? They have only 3 on the current roster and one of the DEs is also an inside pass rusher. With Jason Jones on the roster they can carry an extra DE instead of extra DT like they have the last few years.


April 16th, 2013, 12:56 pm
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Post Re: DE's
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
I believe (and I doubt I'm alone in this) that the Lions NEED to draft at least 2 DE's in this years draft. With that being said, I thought I would voice my perspective on possible options for the Lions in this years draft. Early first round possible options Ansah and Jordan, look like reaches to me. Both have great athleticism and upside to develop. While Jordan has much more experience, Ansah has the size, but is awfully green. After those two, Werner seems to be the next in line, but is not a top 5 pick. The group of DE's that should be on the board at the top of the second round don't seem to me to be any more impressive than players they could get in the 3rd to 5th rounds. Margus Hunt is green and would be a 26 year old rookie, Tank Carridine is coming off injury, and would be a 24 year old rookie. Of all the DE's listed in this range, Alex Okafor is the only one that warrants consideration, IMO. But at pick 36 he appears to be a reach also.
So, to me the Lions best options will come in the 3rd to 6th rounds, and my favorites are - 3rd to 4th - Cornelius Washington 6-4, 265 Georgia, Malliciah Goodman 6-4, 276 Clemson, and 5th to 6th Quanterus Smith 6-5, 250 Western Kentucky, William Gholston 6-6, 281 Michigan State.
That's my take. What's yours?


I don't see the point in drafting more than 1 DE. Anyone not better than Lewis/Young is just going to make the practice squad. Who do you want to give up on?


Why not take 2? They have only 3 on the current roster and one of the DEs is also an inside pass rusher. With Jason Jones on the roster they can carry an extra DE instead of extra DT like they have the last few years.


Well... I'll say this. When I say "draft only 1," I have to admit that I'm assuming that we're going to bring back LoJack, who I don't believe is currently under contract.

We could "list" Jones as a DT, but I really think he's going to start at DE, and play primarily DE. If he was going to be a "utility player" I could see altering his "listed" position to accomodate more DE's, but we already have Mosely, Fairley, and Suh, and that guy we signed from the Chargers playing DT. Moving Jones to DT doesn't really help our case at this point.


April 16th, 2013, 1:01 pm
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Post Re: DE's
wjb21ndtown wrote:
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
I believe (and I doubt I'm alone in this) that the Lions NEED to draft at least 2 DE's in this years draft. With that being said, I thought I would voice my perspective on possible options for the Lions in this years draft. Early first round possible options Ansah and Jordan, look like reaches to me. Both have great athleticism and upside to develop. While Jordan has much more experience, Ansah has the size, but is awfully green. After those two, Werner seems to be the next in line, but is not a top 5 pick. The group of DE's that should be on the board at the top of the second round don't seem to me to be any more impressive than players they could get in the 3rd to 5th rounds. Margus Hunt is green and would be a 26 year old rookie, Tank Carridine is coming off injury, and would be a 24 year old rookie. Of all the DE's listed in this range, Alex Okafor is the only one that warrants consideration, IMO. But at pick 36 he appears to be a reach also.
So, to me the Lions best options will come in the 3rd to 6th rounds, and my favorites are - 3rd to 4th - Cornelius Washington 6-4, 265 Georgia, Malliciah Goodman 6-4, 276 Clemson, and 5th to 6th Quanterus Smith 6-5, 250 Western Kentucky, William Gholston 6-6, 281 Michigan State.
That's my take. What's yours?


I don't see the point in drafting more than 1 DE. Anyone not better than Lewis/Young is just going to make the practice squad. Who do you want to give up on?


Why not take 2? They have only 3 on the current roster and one of the DEs is also an inside pass rusher. With Jason Jones on the roster they can carry an extra DE instead of extra DT like they have the last few years.


Well... I'll say this. When I say "draft only 1," I have to admit that I'm assuming that we're going to bring back LoJack, who I don't believe is currently under contract.

We could "list" Jones as a DT, but I really think he's going to start at DE, and play primarily DE. If he was going to be a "utility player" I could see altering his "listed" position to accomodate more DE's, but we already have Mosely, Fairley, and Suh, and that guy we signed from the Chargers playing DT. Moving Jones to DT doesn't really help our case at this point.


I'm not saying to move Jason Jones to DT. All I was saying is instead of carrying 5 DTs like the Lions have the last few years, they could carry 5 DEs because Jason Jones will as said by Schwartz be moved inside on some passing downs. JJ is a tweener DE/DT so carrying more DEs seems like the better idea with the fact they have no proven DEs and need more guys that could possibly break out.

I will agree that if they bring back Lojack then they shouldn't be grabbing more than 1 DE. I would say the best plan would be to go into this draft looking for 2 good DE prospects, but if only one presents himself you can use Lojack as a fall back and can use the pick on something else. Lojack will add very little to the pass rush and the Lions will need someone to be that pure pass rusher that doesn't seem to be on the roster right now.

If the Lions can't find that pass rusher I am hoping they try just using big DEs that can set the edge and just focus rushing up the middle. It's not the most common way to get at the passer but if they can keep the QB in the pocket Suh and Fairley should be able to clean up.


April 16th, 2013, 1:16 pm
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Post Re: DE's
I think he just meant, if we carry 9 DL (like normal) we have 4 DTs, JJ at DE/DT (Can Move inside on Passing downs which they mentioned although with 2 penetrating DTs in Suh and Fairley not sure why unless we bring 5 men to the front) and 4 Other Des. I agree Id expect (and hope) they bring LoJack back now that hes had a chance to test the Market. if we have 9 DL does that give us room to draft 2 DEs, or is LoJack the 8th and 1 Drafted DE the 9th?


April 16th, 2013, 1:19 pm
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Post Re: DE's
DJ-B wrote:
I think he just meant, if we carry 9 DL (like normal) we have 4 DTs, JJ at DE/DT (Can Move inside on Passing downs which they mentioned although with 2 penetrating DTs in Suh and Fairley not sure why unless we bring 5 men to the front) and 4 Other Des. I agree Id expect (and hope) they bring LoJack back now that hes had a chance to test the Market. if we have 9 DL does that give us room to draft 2 DEs, or is LoJack the 8th and 1 Drafted DE the 9th?


LoJack would be the 8th DE, and the 1 drafted is the 9th.


April 16th, 2013, 1:20 pm
5th Round Pick - Traded

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Post Re: DE's
At this point I have a hard time believing Lewis is anything other than another wasted draft pick by Mayhew.
The reason for drafting two is not only potential starter, but much needed depth. My outlook is even if they draft one in the 2nd or 3rd it's not a given they will be starters. No, I don't expect a 5th or 6th round rookie to come in and start. But, I think one could come from that part of the draft and be a part of the rotation. Basically, with the signing of Jones and Young, those are the starters. Even though Lewis is listed on the roster, I don't have high hopes he will be a productive DE in the rotation. Lojack is still in FA limbo. Do the Lions even want him back? The Lions lost two DE's from last seasons under-performing group, they signed Jones (an unknown quantity), and with Young, the same could be said. IMO, DE is the biggest need on this team. But, I don't see the value to take one at 5 or 36. Besides the Lions are going to take a LT at 5, (also a big need) I hope.


April 16th, 2013, 1:35 pm
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Post Re: DE's
liontrax wrote:
At this point I have a hard time believing Lewis is anything other than another wasted draft pick by Mayhew.
The reason for drafting two is not only potential starter, but much needed depth. My outlook is even if they draft one in the 2nd or 3rd it's not a given they will be starters. No, I don't expect a 5th or 6th round rookie to come in and start. But, I think one could come from that part of the draft and be a part of the rotation. Basically, with the signing of Jones and Young, those are the starters. Even though Lewis is listed on the roster, I don't have high hopes he will be a productive DE in the rotation. Lojack is still in FA limbo. Do the Lions even want him back? The Lions lost two DE's from last seasons under-performing group, they signed Jones (an unknown quantity), and with Young, the same could be said. IMO, DE is the biggest need on this team. But, I don't see the value to take one at 5 or 36. Besides the Lions are going to take a LT at 5, (also a big need) I hope.


I'm not ready to give up on Lewis yet, but I'm all but done with Willie Young. He's 27, hasn't shown anything, and regressed last year. He's not a 23 year old "kid" that hasn't "gotten it" yet, and IMO he's definitely not worth $2M per year. I'd dump him in a minute for someone like Gholston. Gholston may have his issues, but at least he's young, cheap, and has potential... Three things going for him that Willie doesn't have.


April 16th, 2013, 1:52 pm
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Post Re: DE's
I stand corrected then, and you are right. To draft 2 it means someone is going Practice squad or they are releasing someone they just signed which doesn't make a ton of sense.

Still hoping Youngs contract that he signed (rather than his tender) is less than 2m, but think we are still waiting on the details for that.

Mostly agree with wjb.


April 16th, 2013, 2:09 pm
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Post Re: DE's
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
At this point I have a hard time believing Lewis is anything other than another wasted draft pick by Mayhew.
The reason for drafting two is not only potential starter, but much needed depth. My outlook is even if they draft one in the 2nd or 3rd it's not a given they will be starters. No, I don't expect a 5th or 6th round rookie to come in and start. But, I think one could come from that part of the draft and be a part of the rotation. Basically, with the signing of Jones and Young, those are the starters. Even though Lewis is listed on the roster, I don't have high hopes he will be a productive DE in the rotation. Lojack is still in FA limbo. Do the Lions even want him back? The Lions lost two DE's from last seasons under-performing group, they signed Jones (an unknown quantity), and with Young, the same could be said. IMO, DE is the biggest need on this team. But, I don't see the value to take one at 5 or 36. Besides the Lions are going to take a LT at 5, (also a big need) I hope.


I'm not ready to give up on Lewis yet, but I'm all but done with Willie Young. He's 27, hasn't shown anything, and regressed last year. He's not a 23 year old "kid" that hasn't "gotten it" yet, and IMO he's definitely not worth $2M per year. I'd dump him in a minute for someone like Gholston. Gholston may have his issues, but at least he's young, cheap, and has potential... Three things going for him that Willie doesn't have.


I agree with you on everything here WJB. I still feel like the Lions are a bad fit for Gholston, but he is a good player and should be available for a great value late. I'm not as down on Young as you are, but I would definitely drop him for a cheaper younger prospect.


April 16th, 2013, 2:29 pm
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Post Re: DE's
rao wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
liontrax wrote:
At this point I have a hard time believing Lewis is anything other than another wasted draft pick by Mayhew.
The reason for drafting two is not only potential starter, but much needed depth. My outlook is even if they draft one in the 2nd or 3rd it's not a given they will be starters. No, I don't expect a 5th or 6th round rookie to come in and start. But, I think one could come from that part of the draft and be a part of the rotation. Basically, with the signing of Jones and Young, those are the starters. Even though Lewis is listed on the roster, I don't have high hopes he will be a productive DE in the rotation. Lojack is still in FA limbo. Do the Lions even want him back? The Lions lost two DE's from last seasons under-performing group, they signed Jones (an unknown quantity), and with Young, the same could be said. IMO, DE is the biggest need on this team. But, I don't see the value to take one at 5 or 36. Besides the Lions are going to take a LT at 5, (also a big need) I hope.


I'm not ready to give up on Lewis yet, but I'm all but done with Willie Young. He's 27, hasn't shown anything, and regressed last year. He's not a 23 year old "kid" that hasn't "gotten it" yet, and IMO he's definitely not worth $2M per year. I'd dump him in a minute for someone like Gholston. Gholston may have his issues, but at least he's young, cheap, and has potential... Three things going for him that Willie doesn't have.


I agree with you on everything here WJB. I still feel like the Lions are a bad fit for Gholston, but he is a good player and should be available for a great value late. I'm not as down on Young as you are, but I would definitely drop him for a cheaper younger prospect.


I don't think Gholston is the end-all-be-all, or even the 2nd coming of James Hall (who was just a solid, average DE), but I do think he has potential, and he is cheap. I would rather see what Gholston has than give Willie $2M on what amounts to his 4th chance at proving himself.

I'm not "stuck" on Gholston, but I do see him as a potential late round steal. He's very similar to Willie Young, but he has the "beef" that Young lacks and has been unable to add. It's worth a shot IMO.


April 16th, 2013, 2:39 pm
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