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 A Punter in the 5th. 
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
m2karateman wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
Agreed, I was just pointing out that our Punter was the 32nd best punter and a must replace (Yes it was Harris). When I was 1 of the 2 ppl in Chat during rounds 5-7, every time our picks came up I spammed the same list. Chase Thomas (OLB Stanford), Rambo, DaRick Rogers, Xavier Nixon, Everett Dawkins & Kevin Reddick, so I wasn't all that excited about any of the 5th+ Picks other than Fuller and Williams.


I've hated Harris for years. People on here have been saying that I can't have it both ways (complain about Harris and complain about Martin), but it's where we took Martin, and who we left on the board that I have a problem with. I'm all for replacing Harris.


Then let me ask this. Would Rambo start for us? No. Would Stills? No. Will Martin? Yes. Therefore, we got a starter out of the late fifth round. Punter or not, the guy will have a bigger impact on our teams performance this season than Rambo or Stills would have.


It's not wether one player will "start" and one "won't start." I do think that Stills or Rambo would "start" on special teams, and would thus be out there just as much as any punter we drafted.

Further, the equation isn't Martin v Rambo, it's Rambo, Stills or Ellington + a punter drafted later v Martin + Riddick.

Personally, I like the former option much more than the latter.


May 5th, 2013, 1:12 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
The issue I have with your argument wjb is that you are assuming no one else would have selected this guy because no other punters were taken. That's an assumption that can't be proven or disproven.

To me, it's the same as saying that when the Lions took Jason Hanson in round two of the 1992 draft, they did it 9 rounds too high, because the next kicker wasn't taken until the 12th round. First off, even in the second round it turned out to be a brilliant pick. Secondly, can you really assume that Hanson would have remained on the board for all those rounds simply because no other team took a player at his position during that time?

And the issue I have with your argument about Rambo, etc. playing special team is this.....can they punt? Being a gunner on ST is NOT a specialty position. The "special" in special teams comes from the positions that make them "special", and that would be the snapper and kicker/punter. All other positions aren't all that special.

Do we need better gunners? Yes, absolutely. But for someone who bitched endlessly about our punters last season it surprises me you would choose to complain about the Lions doing what they feel they needed to for improving that position. And if nothing else, last year showed you can't just sign anyone to do that job.

I wasn't all that crazy about the pick either. Until this kid can prove he's a really good punter, I'll straddle the fence on this one. But until he shows he's a waste, I won't hang that moniker on him or the pick.

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May 6th, 2013, 12:22 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
m2karateman wrote:
The issue I have with your argument wjb is that you are assuming no one else would have selected this guy because no other punters were taken. That's an assumption that can't be proven or disproven.

To me, it's the same as saying that when the Lions took Jason Hanson in round two of the 1992 draft, they did it 9 rounds too high, because the next kicker wasn't taken until the 12th round. First off, even in the second round it turned out to be a brilliant pick. Secondly, can you really assume that Hanson would have remained on the board for all those rounds simply because no other team took a player at his position during that time?

And the issue I have with your argument about Rambo, etc. playing special team is this.....can they punt? Being a gunner on ST is NOT a specialty position. The "special" in special teams comes from the positions that make them "special", and that would be the snapper and kicker/punter. All other positions aren't all that special.

Do we need better gunners? Yes, absolutely. But for someone who bitched endlessly about our punters last season it surprises me you would choose to complain about the Lions doing what they feel they needed to for improving that position. And if nothing else, last year showed you can't just sign anyone to do that job.

I wasn't all that crazy about the pick either. Until this kid can prove he's a really good punter, I'll straddle the fence on this one. But until he shows he's a waste, I won't hang that moniker on him or the pick.


No, no, no, no... I DON'T CARE IF WE DRAFTED THIS GUY.

We could have selected any of the other punters, or brought in UDFAs.


May 6th, 2013, 2:43 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
...Lets just see how he does in training camp, and then during games...THEN we can really evaluate the pick. Good arguments all around, but we just dont know yet if it was a good pick or not. I kinda think it may have been a tad early for a punter, BUT it is what it is. Every team takes a guy "too early".

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May 6th, 2013, 2:53 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
The issue I have with your argument wjb is that you are assuming no one else would have selected this guy because no other punters were taken. That's an assumption that can't be proven or disproven.

To me, it's the same as saying that when the Lions took Jason Hanson in round two of the 1992 draft, they did it 9 rounds too high, because the next kicker wasn't taken until the 12th round. First off, even in the second round it turned out to be a brilliant pick. Secondly, can you really assume that Hanson would have remained on the board for all those rounds simply because no other team took a player at his position during that time?

And the issue I have with your argument about Rambo, etc. playing special team is this.....can they punt? Being a gunner on ST is NOT a specialty position. The "special" in special teams comes from the positions that make them "special", and that would be the snapper and kicker/punter. All other positions aren't all that special.

Do we need better gunners? Yes, absolutely. But for someone who bitched endlessly about our punters last season it surprises me you would choose to complain about the Lions doing what they feel they needed to for improving that position. And if nothing else, last year showed you can't just sign anyone to do that job.

I wasn't all that crazy about the pick either. Until this kid can prove he's a really good punter, I'll straddle the fence on this one. But until he shows he's a waste, I won't hang that moniker on him or the pick.


No, no, no, no... I DON'T CARE IF WE DRAFTED THIS GUY.

We could have selected any of the other punters, or brought in UDFAs.



jhere is the thing...did you evaluate ANY kickers or punters? I didnt. this guy could be special...no one knows yet. It's not worth shouting fire yet untill we see him play. if he plays at a pro bowl level for the next 5-10 yeats he was more than worth it. If we end up cutting him for "kickolicious" then go ahead and flame away.

In my mind this was a 6th rd pick and not worth getting upset about to begin with.

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May 6th, 2013, 3:01 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
The issue I have with your argument wjb is that you are assuming no one else would have selected this guy because no other punters were taken. That's an assumption that can't be proven or disproven.

To me, it's the same as saying that when the Lions took Jason Hanson in round two of the 1992 draft, they did it 9 rounds too high, because the next kicker wasn't taken until the 12th round. First off, even in the second round it turned out to be a brilliant pick. Secondly, can you really assume that Hanson would have remained on the board for all those rounds simply because no other team took a player at his position during that time?

And the issue I have with your argument about Rambo, etc. playing special team is this.....can they punt? Being a gunner on ST is NOT a specialty position. The "special" in special teams comes from the positions that make them "special", and that would be the snapper and kicker/punter. All other positions aren't all that special.

Do we need better gunners? Yes, absolutely. But for someone who bitched endlessly about our punters last season it surprises me you would choose to complain about the Lions doing what they feel they needed to for improving that position. And if nothing else, last year showed you can't just sign anyone to do that job.

I wasn't all that crazy about the pick either. Until this kid can prove he's a really good punter, I'll straddle the fence on this one. But until he shows he's a waste, I won't hang that moniker on him or the pick.


No, no, no, no... I DON'T CARE IF WE DRAFTED THIS GUY.

We could have selected any of the other punters, or brought in UDFAs.



jhere is the thing...did you evaluate ANY kickers or punters? I didnt. this guy could be special...no one knows yet. It's not worth shouting fire yet untill we see him play. if he plays at a pro bowl level for the next 5-10 yeats he was more than worth it. If we end up cutting him for "kickolicious" then go ahead and flame away.

In my mind this was a 6th rd pick and not worth getting upset about to begin with.


Wing was largely regarded as the 2nd best punter in the draft, yet he's been said to have a "party side." Talent wise, IMO he would beat out Martin. Then there are guys like Jackson Rice who are more of a "sure thing" with possibly less upside than someone like Wing, but any of them would have been "ok" in my book.

You can't deny that we could have drafted Jackson Rice in the 7th, or signed him as a UDFA, AND had Rambo/Ellington/Stills.

IMO the combo of a special teamer, + a punter, is better than just drafting the punter.


May 6th, 2013, 3:14 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
assuming Rambo is even still on a team in 2014....

I have doubts. you want to talk about a wasted pick if that happens...

Eitehr way....it's still WAY to early to call fire on a late rd pick used on a kicker. thats when you are SUPPOSED to pick one up.

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May 6th, 2013, 3:54 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
regularjoe12 wrote:
assuming Rambo is even still on a team in 2014....

I have doubts. you want to talk about a wasted pick if that happens...

Eitehr way....it's still WAY to early to call fire on a late rd pick used on a kicker. thats when you are SUPPOSED to pick one up.



Out of everyone there, I preferred Ellington. Maybe he doesn't do anything at the next level, maybe he gets injured, or maybe he turns out to be something. I thought he was the best fit (much better than Riddick, IMO, because of his speed), to backup Reggie Bush, and he was a 3rd round talent. You don't pass on a guy like that to take a punter that would have likely been a UDFA, especially when there are three "good" punters left in the draft.

Rambo, IMO would have made more "roster" sense, but I can see staying away from him for character concerns. Stills, IMO, is more polished and will contribute more in 2013 and 2014 than Fuller will, and IMO that's what this O needs, a patchwork #2 WR to plug into next to CJ.


May 6th, 2013, 4:02 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
Either all must be quiet in World.....or its the off-season....to have a 5 page thread on a punter :shock: :lol:

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May 6th, 2013, 4:03 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
assuming Rambo is even still on a team in 2014....

I have doubts. you want to talk about a wasted pick if that happens...

Eitehr way....it's still WAY to early to call fire on a late rd pick used on a kicker. thats when you are SUPPOSED to pick one up.



Out of everyone there, I preferred Ellington. Maybe he doesn't do anything at the next level, maybe he gets injured, or maybe he turns out to be something. I thought he was the best fit (much better than Riddick, IMO, because of his speed), to backup Reggie Bush, and he was a 3rd round talent. You don't pass on a guy like that to take a punter that would have likely been a UDFA, especially when there are three "good" punters left in the draft.

Rambo, IMO would have made more "roster" sense, but I can see staying away from him for character concerns. Stills, IMO, is more polished and will contribute more in 2013 and 2014 than Fuller will, and IMO that's what this O needs, a patchwork #2 WR to plug into next to CJ.


Stills was arrested in 2011. Who knows if Mayhew erased him from the board because of that... Ellington also had two arrests and a knee injury in college.

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May 6th, 2013, 4:35 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
Shotty wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
assuming Rambo is even still on a team in 2014....

I have doubts. you want to talk about a wasted pick if that happens...

Eitehr way....it's still WAY to early to call fire on a late rd pick used on a kicker. thats when you are SUPPOSED to pick one up.



Out of everyone there, I preferred Ellington. Maybe he doesn't do anything at the next level, maybe he gets injured, or maybe he turns out to be something. I thought he was the best fit (much better than Riddick, IMO, because of his speed), to backup Reggie Bush, and he was a 3rd round talent. You don't pass on a guy like that to take a punter that would have likely been a UDFA, especially when there are three "good" punters left in the draft.

Rambo, IMO would have made more "roster" sense, but I can see staying away from him for character concerns. Stills, IMO, is more polished and will contribute more in 2013 and 2014 than Fuller will, and IMO that's what this O needs, a patchwork #2 WR to plug into next to CJ.


Stills was arrested in 2011. Who knows if Mayhew erased him from the board because of that... Ellington also had two arrests and a knee injury in college.



I've already addressed all of this. Why don't you guys go back and come up with something new?


May 6th, 2013, 4:45 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
TheRealWags wrote:
Either all must be quiet in World.....or its the off-season....to have a 5 page thread on a punter :shock: :lol:


I take this as a good sign. if picking up a kicker in the 5th is the worst thing that happened to us, I'd say we did alright this offseason ;)

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May 6th, 2013, 5:23 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
TheRealWags wrote:
Either all must be quiet in World.....or its the off-season....to have a 5 page thread on a punter :shock: :lol:


Lol, that is a great point. It MUST be the offseason.

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May 6th, 2013, 5:25 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
regularjoe12 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Either all must be quiet in World.....or its the off-season....to have a 5 page thread on a punter :shock: :lol:


I take this as a good sign. if picking up a kicker in the 5th is the worst thing that happened to us, I'd say we did alright this offseason ;)


The worst thing was the trade not the Punter. The punter just seems to be the one thing that can hold a debate, everyone agrees the trade was awful.


May 6th, 2013, 5:30 pm
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Post Re: A Punter in the 5th.
rao wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Either all must be quiet in World.....or its the off-season....to have a 5 page thread on a punter :shock: :lol:


I take this as a good sign. if picking up a kicker in the 5th is the worst thing that happened to us, I'd say we did alright this offseason ;)


The worst thing was the trade not the Punter. The punter just seems to be the one thing that can hold a debate, everyone agrees the trade was awful.


Still....compared to last year I'll take it. The one thing I would have liked to see happen is a better prospect at LT. All things considered this has been a pretty decent offseason so far.

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May 6th, 2013, 5:46 pm
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