View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently September 30th, 2014, 6:09 pm



Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means 
Author Message
Lionbacker Rehab Guru
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pm
Posts: 1202
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Blueskies wrote:
Saying attraction is a choice is really just theater of the absurd. It's like saying the earth is flat or that it revolves around the Sun. Not even worthy of a response IMO. You can certainly say people choose whether or not to act on their attractions, but to say that they choose what they're attracted to is just proven wrong by basic common sense.

Even among heterosexual men, each has their own quirks. Some prefer women a bit thicker than others; some have a thing for redheads, or prefer a large bust over a tight behind (or vice-versa).

I've always had a "type" of women that I'm attracted to ever since I can remember having sexual attraction (maybe 12 or 13?). It's never once been a choice for me, just as though I don't choose to be hungry or not (although I can choose not to eat).

People who deny that people have choice is their sexual identity are like the KKK saying N-----s aren't human. I've no idea where you get your hate from.

Saying that people are automatons and are programmed to like women with large breasts or red hair or small feet, is such a poor understanding of human behavior it is ludicrous.

_________________
Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.


June 26th, 2013, 4:06 pm
Profile
Lionbacker Rehab Guru
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pm
Posts: 1202
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
TheRealWags wrote:
So, everyday you choose to be attracted to women. Hmm....interesting.... Personally, in my life I have never once made the conscious choice to be attracted to women; its just always been that way, some would call that 'innate'. Now, I have seen some attractive men, but I have not ever been sexually attracted to them.
Quote:
You fed that beast a long time ago, much like most of the choices you made in your life. It is not too late to change many of your behaviors, but there are some that it is too late to change.

TheRealWags wrote:
Interesting way for this to be put. Would I also be a 'totalitarian dictator' if I 'choose' not to breathe? Actually, I think that's close to impossible as no matter how long I hold my breathe, I still end up breathing....its almost as if its something I was born with......

Breathing for the most part is a compound reflex response. If you chose not to breathe you would be a suicide. Totalitarian dictator is what you would be if you told other people that they had no choice in their lives, and then you were able to use the state to enforce your dictate.

_________________
Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.


Last edited by TruckinMack on June 26th, 2013, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.



June 26th, 2013, 4:15 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2671
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
How many books on evolutionary psychology have you read? Yes, our impulses are machine-like.

I guess it's just a coincidence that men in general are most attracted to healthy women in their prime breeding years. Couldn't have anything to do with an innate drive to reproduce. Nope. All men just got together one day and decided what's attractive and what isn't.


June 26th, 2013, 4:15 pm
Profile
Lionbacker Rehab Guru
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pm
Posts: 1202
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Blueskies wrote:
How many books on evolutionary psychology have you read? Yes, our impulses are machine-like.

I guess it's just a coincidence that men in general are most attracted to healthy women in their prime breeding years. Couldn't have anything to do with an innate drive to reproduce. Nope. All men just got together one day and decided what's attractive and what isn't.

Keep digging that hole Blue. (No pun intneded.) Now you are saying that nobody has a choice in their sexual identity. That men who like fat/thin/amputated women are genetically flawed because they do not prefer prime breeding stock. Excellent. I'm not sure what books you have read on evolutionary biology, but you might want to re-read them.

_________________
Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.


June 26th, 2013, 4:21 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2671
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Yes, I am saying that you have no choice in what you're attracted to. None. Zero. Zip.

You do have a choice in acting on your impulses. But by definition, what you're attracted to is innate and cannot be altered by conscious choice.

I've struggled with my weight for most of my life. About eight years ago, I chose to do something about it and lost 100+ lbs. I've kept the weight off, but it's a struggle everyday. I just want to eat more than other people. I'm nearly always hungry. I can't choose to not be hungry, but I can choose not to eat.

Similarly, people cannot choose the object of their sexual attraction, but they can choose to express that attraction or not. And I do not see anything wrong with acting on homosexual impulses.


June 26th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Profile
NFL Veteran

Joined: November 28th, 2007, 12:50 pm
Posts: 1373
Location: Newport Beach, Ca
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
TruckinMack wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
How many books on evolutionary psychology have you read? Yes, our impulses are machine-like.

I guess it's just a coincidence that men in general are most attracted to healthy women in their prime breeding years. Couldn't have anything to do with an innate drive to reproduce. Nope. All men just got together one day and decided what's attractive and what isn't.

Keep digging that hole Blue. (No pun intneded.) Now you are saying that nobody has a choice in their sexual identity. That men who like fat/thin/amputated women are genetically flawed because they do not prefer prime breeding stock. Excellent. I'm not sure what books you have read on evolutionary biology, but you might want to re-read them.


I don't understand this. What about evolutionary biology would argue against these men being genetically flawed? Aren't genetic mutations and adaptions part of evolution? Mutations don't have to be beneficial and they may continue to be passed on since modern humans can often find ways to still propagate even with debilitating mutations.

I am no expert on evolution or even that well read on the subject, but it seemed to me like them being genetically flawed fit in fine with the evolution theory. If I'm wrong sorry I brought it up, but any correction if I am wrong would be much appreciated.


June 26th, 2013, 5:41 pm
Profile
Lionbacker Rehab Guru
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pm
Posts: 1202
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
rao wrote:
TruckinMack wrote:
I don't understand this. What about evolutionary biology would argue against these men being genetically flawed? Aren't genetic mutations and adaptions part of evolution? Mutations don't have to be beneficial and they may continue to be passed on since modern humans can often find ways to still propagate even with debilitating mutations.

I am no expert on evolution or even that well read on the subject, but it seemed to me like them being genetically flawed fit in fine with the evolution theory. If I'm wrong sorry I brought it up, but any correction if I am wrong would be much appreciated.

It would certainly by definition be a genetic flaw that an organism adopted the least desirable of breeding partners and such adoption were per their own genetic DNA.

I am not talking about homosexuals, per se, but men who would choose women that are likely to have impaired offspring. Though, it would apply to homosexual men as well. Evolutionarily speaking, homosexuals are a dead end, if their actions are controlled per genetics. They would have died out long ago if it were truly a genetic anomaly. I would hazard to bet that the percent of homosexuals in the community is increasing as the LGBT is being so effective in recruiting to their cause.

Certainly we are all 'genetically flawed' (Short, tall, blue eyes, brown eyes, light brown skin, dark brown skin, the list is endless.) Creatures that would seek out the least desirable mate (for breeding purposes) in the hope that they hit the jack pot (genetically speaking) would soon go extinct, and rightly so. Mother Nature is a bitch when you try to challenge her.

Still, I disagree with the concept that we have no choice in our sexual behavior. It is such a silly thing to say. it is tough to take that view seriously, even though it is what all the cool kids are saying these days.

_________________
Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.


June 26th, 2013, 6:32 pm
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Blueskies,

I wasn't saying anything about the "Marriage Contract", I said that now that the door has been opened to perversity (meaning different lifestyle choices) what is to STOP even MORE EXTREME lifestyles from pushing for their rights?

Once Pandora's box is opened, there's no closing the lid, and time will tell if our culture degenerates to the point that what I've asked begins to be talked about.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


June 26th, 2013, 7:01 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2671
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Blueskies,

I wasn't saying anything about the "Marriage Contract", I said that now that the door has been opened to perversity (meaning different lifestyle choices) what is to STOP even MORE EXTREME lifestyles from pushing for their rights?

Once Pandora's box is opened, there's no closing the lid, and time will tell if our culture degenerates to the point that what I've asked begins to be talked about.


Arguing on the grounds of "slippery slope" is considered to be a logical fallacy for a reason. I mean, for any issue you might want to argue over, I could use slippery slope reasoning to go against it*. The fact is, we're debating homosexual marriage. Nothing else. You can't argue against something based purely on the grounds that it might lead to something else.

*Take like, Obamacare. You might say, "Lets abolish Obamacare!" And that might be a totally reasonable position. But based on the slippery slope fallacy, I could say, "well you start abolishing Obamacare, who knows what laws you might turn over next? Next thing you know, we could abolish the laws against murder and have total anarchy!" Which is of course, what many liberals do when you criticize big government. They're fond of saying things like, "Move to Somalia if you want to live under anarchy!"

Quote:
Still, I disagree with the concept that we have no choice in our sexual behavior. It is such a silly thing to say. it is tough to take that view seriously, even though it is what all the cool kids are saying these days.


That's not what I'm saying at all. Of course we have a choice in our sexual behavior! But feeling attraction (or not feeling attraction) is not a choice. You can argue that gays shouldn't act on their sexual desires -- I guess that's a reasonable argument, but to say they willingly choose to have those desires is nonsense. And if you disagree, please tell me what day it was that I chose to be attracted to large breasted women with dark hair and fair skin. Because I certainly can't recall that.

Quote:
I don't understand this. What about evolutionary biology would argue against these men being genetically flawed? Aren't genetic mutations and adaptions part of evolution? Mutations don't have to be beneficial and they may continue to be passed on since modern humans can often find ways to still propagate even with debilitating mutations.


It's more or less just the idea that human nature is shaped by basic evolutionary forces. For example, we think highly caloric things taste great because, for 99% of human history and even today, our ancestors struggled to avoid starvation. I would recommend everyone read Steven Pinker's How the Mind Works.


June 26th, 2013, 7:46 pm
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12078
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Blueskies wrote:
Quote:
Still, I disagree with the concept that we have no choice in our sexual behavior. It is such a silly thing to say. it is tough to take that view seriously, even though it is what all the cool kids are saying these days.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Of course we have a choice in our sexual behavior! But feeling attraction (or not feeling attraction) is not a choice. You can argue that gays shouldn't act on their sexual desires -- I guess that's a reasonable argument, but to say they willingly choose to have those desires is nonsense. And if you disagree, please tell me what day it was that I chose to be attracted to large breasted women with dark hair and fair skin. Because I certainly can't recall that.
Pretty much the point I was trying to make.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


June 27th, 2013, 9:42 am
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12078
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Perhaps a little food for thought:
Anyone want the ability to marry your cousin? :
Image

Which 'biblical' ? or are all of them?:
Image

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


June 27th, 2013, 9:48 am
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12078
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Gotta love Cracked's take on it:
Cracked wrote:
A 30-Second Guide to How the Gay Marriage Ruling Affects You
By:David Wong 06-26-2013

In case you missed it, or just saw people screaming about it on Facebook, the U.S. Supreme Court just ruled that the federal government will now recognize gay marriages as legitimate (specifically, that the Defense of Marriage Act that had been preventing it was unconstitutional). BUT individual states are still free to pass their own laws.

Millions of people, most of whom are neither gay nor looking to get same-sex married, are loudly asking on the Internet how exactly this case impacts their life.

For them we have provided a handy guide:

If You Are a Homosexual and Are Already Married:
The federal government now recognizes your marriage as a thing, and you are eligible for tax, health, and pension benefits under federal law like any other married couple, pending further political shenanigans. You can file taxes jointly, all that poop.

If You Are a Homosexual and Want to Get Married:
This does nothing to affect you UNLESS you live in California. States are still free to decide whether or not same-sex marriage is legal; if you live in Mississippi, this does not help you. But, the voter initiative to ban gay marriage in California is now dead, pending further legal challenges or other fudge.

If You Are a Heterosexual and Do NOT Want to Enter into a Homosexual Marriage:
You will not be required to marry a gay person. This is a common misunderstanding. This decision actually does not affect you in any way.

If You Are Currently in a Heterosexual Marriage:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are a Heterosexual Who Is Not Currently Married:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are a Heterosexual Who Hopes to Eventually Marry:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are a Member of a Church That Performs Wedding Ceremonies but That Does Not Believe in Gay Marriage:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are a Religious Official Who Performs Wedding Ceremonies but Who Thinks Gay Marriage Is Wrong:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are an Individual Who Believes Gay Marriage or Homosexuality in General Is Wrong for Religious Reasons, and Wish to Continue Expressing Those Beliefs:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are an Individual Who Believes Gay Marriage or Homosexuality in General Is Wrong for Non-Religious Reasons, and Wish to Continue Expressing Those Beliefs:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are a Heterosexual Who Fears This Decision Adversely Affects Your Marriage or the Concept of Marriage in General:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are a Heterosexual Who Fears This Decision Negatively Affects You in Some Way:
This decision does not affect you in any way.

If You Are a Heterosexual Who Suffers Anger or Anxiety at the Thought of Gay Couples Getting Married as an Abstract Concept, and Believes the Only Cure Is to Legally Prevent Gay Marriage:
This decision will cause you some degree of anger or anxiety. Otherwise, this decision does not affect you in any way.

Hope this helps!

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/a-30 ... z2XQNAAaVC

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


June 27th, 2013, 9:53 am
Profile
Lionbacker Rehab Guru
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pm
Posts: 1202
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
TheRealWags wrote:
Gotta love Cracked's take on it:
Cracked wrote:
A 30-Second Guide to How the Gay Marriage Ruling Affects You
By:David Wong 06-26-2013
Blah Blah Blah

Thanks for the facile information. It is what I expect of Liberal discourse.

I'm a business owner. What are MY options?

I'm a parent who wants his kids to be taught intelligently, not pop culturally.

To say these decisions don't affect us is horse crap. Before Wednesday, before the SCOTUS overruled Congress, what Gays did on their own time did not affect us. Not they officially, legally affect us. I am a bit surprised that no one is irritated that the President and the SCOTUS have taken over the role of Congress and of the American voter.

_________________
Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.


June 28th, 2013, 10:13 am
Profile
Modmin Dude
User avatar

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 am
Posts: 12078
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
TruckinMack wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Gotta love Cracked's take on it:
Cracked wrote:
A 30-Second Guide to How the Gay Marriage Ruling Affects You
By:David Wong 06-26-2013
Blah Blah Blah

Thanks for the facile information. It is what I expect of Liberal discourse.
Not familiar with Cracked or Mad Magazine? Alfred E Neuman ring a bell?
TruckinMack wrote:
I'm a business owner. What are MY options?
If you're in a state that does not recognize Gay marriage, then you carry on as before. If you're in a state that does recognize it, wait for the Feds to complete their updates / research, etc
TruckinMack wrote:
I'm a parent who wants his kids to be taught intelligently, not pop culturally.
You're the parent, teach your children as you wish
TruckinMack wrote:
To say these decisions don't affect us is horse crap. Before Wednesday, before the SCOTUS overruled Congress, what Gays did on their own time did not affect us. Not they officially, legally affect us. I am a bit surprised that no one is irritated that the President and the SCOTUS have taken over the role of Congress and of the American voter.
How exactly does this affect you? Please, lay it out.

_________________
Quote:
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....


June 28th, 2013, 10:51 am
Profile
QB Coach
User avatar

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pm
Posts: 3039
Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: DOMA & Prop 8 Decisions Explained: What It All Means
Sorry Wags, I just stopped in to see what was the latest and totally missed your chart on Biblical marriage and the question that followed.

In response to the chart, moreso than the question, I'd like to say that you need to take into context: That every Scriptural reference you used was OLD TESTAMENT, or known as the time of the Law. When Jesus arrived on the scene, He came to fulfill the law at every aspect, as it states in Scripture. The time since His birth, and death have become known as the Church age, in which the Gentiles have been grafted into the Jewish line. The Church age is just about through, and I'm sure that will bring about much celebration, well for a moment anyway, but then the Time of Judgment will begin, and that's when things get nasty.

The Apostle Paul did extensive teaching on many subjects about this, that pertain to today. I'm not exactly sure when the process or acceptance of multi-wives came in, but I have to ask the question if it was culturally acceptable because of survivability post birth and things like that. I'm not sure, and quite frankly like I've said in the Christian thread, I don't really wish to argue the past, when it's the present and on into the future that's the most important relationship wise.

So I hope that helps you a little bit, in that using OT Scripture as a basis for your stance isn't entirely accurate because it's been over ruled, and fulfilled by Jesus, because man could not meet the requirements of the law, and so was therefore having to pay the penalty for falling short. When Jesus came and fulfilled the penalty requirement for the laws that were broken, then for those who chose to accept His offering were welcomed into a relationship with our Heavenly Father through the blood sacrifice of Jesus. This brings in the sacrifice requirements the Jews did as a practice even through Jesus' time. That's why He bears one of many titles, this one being "Lamb of God" and no not the band either.

Have a good day, and let me know if you have another question, or if you'd like to PM so that it doesn't derail this thread.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


July 11th, 2013, 3:57 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.