View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 23rd, 2014, 2:34 pm



Reply to topic  [ 96 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 Zimmerman 
Author Message
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2700
Post Re: Zimmerman
Quote:
The "demonizing" of Martin seems a lot closer to the truth than the "innocent kid" theory. The thug pics, the screwdriver, the stolen jewelry, etc. aren't "false allegations" they are part of Travon Martin's past. The pictures are there. You can see them. They've been released (some of them). It's not a "fake made up thing."


The false allegations are that he had the screwdriver/jewelry on him that night (he didn't, it was weeks earlier). That he went to the corner store to get stuff to make purple drank (he didn't). And that he was "up to no good" based on the fact that he didn't immediately return to his house after leaving the store (it's a free country, he could've been doing a million different things).

Martin wasn't doing anything wrong that night. If he had been, there never would've been a public outcry against Zimmerman in the first place.

The most you could say is that he might've been walking through people's lawns looking into their windows. Even then, there's no proof that's even true. And even if it was true, it's hardly a crime. A police officer catches you walking through someone's yard, they might ask you what you're up to and tell you to stay off private property, but they're certainly not going to arrest you and take you to jail.

There's really no need to demonize Martin. The simple argument of: "Martin attacked Zimmerman, who fearing for his life, shot him in self defense." is reasonable enough. By creating lies and fabricating the truth, you're only serving to prove the opposition's argument -- that there's a bias against black men and American and that they are unfairly stereotyped/profiled.


July 30th, 2013, 5:06 am
Profile
Lionbacker Rehab Guru
User avatar

Joined: January 26th, 2006, 9:08 pm
Posts: 1203
Post Re: Zimmerman
Blueskies wrote:
Quote:
There's really no need to demonize Martin. The simple argument of: "Martin attacked Zimmerman, who fearing for his life, shot him in self defense." is reasonable enough. By creating lies and fabricating the truth, you're only serving to prove the opposition's argument -- that there's a bias against black men and American and that they are unfairly stereotyped/profiled.

The 'demonization' of Martin is less demonization, and more of a 'Trayvon Martin, this is your life.' Using prior history we fill in a picture of Trayvon and of George Zimmerman. This helps us decide not on the truth, as if anyone knows what that is, but on the likely truth. Trayvon's history is of a young boy looking to be a thug. Zimmerman's history is one of trying to help his community. While neither person is a saint, the history of each individual helps us get to a verdict that we have faith in.

_________________
Climate Change - happening every second, of every minute of every day ever since the world was created. Needless to say it's man's fault.


July 30th, 2013, 7:56 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9494
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Zimmerman
TruckinMack wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Quote:
There's really no need to demonize Martin. The simple argument of: "Martin attacked Zimmerman, who fearing for his life, shot him in self defense." is reasonable enough. By creating lies and fabricating the truth, you're only serving to prove the opposition's argument -- that there's a bias against black men and American and that they are unfairly stereotyped/profiled.

The 'demonization' of Martin is less demonization, and more of a 'Trayvon Martin, this is your life.' Using prior history we fill in a picture of Trayvon and of George Zimmerman. This helps us decide not on the truth, as if anyone knows what that is, but on the likely truth. Trayvon's history is of a young boy looking to be a thug. Zimmerman's history is one of trying to help his community. While neither person is a saint, the history of each individual helps us get to a verdict that we have faith in.


The verdict represents a decision based upon the laws of Florida, I have faith that the jury applied the laws to the case correctly. That said, Zimmerman is not without fault and a young boy is dead. Martin also had fault, however, he did not deserve to die. Each individual history had no bearing on the case IMO, the case was based on the actions of that individual night.

Regardless of what Martin did, the police instructed Zimmerman to stop following Martin - he disobeyed the police. I find it interesting that people jump on Martin for not answering Zimmerman when questioned yet Zimmerman (because he was part of neighborhood watch) seems to have a free pass for ignoring what the police told him not to do.

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


July 30th, 2013, 9:49 am
Profile WWW
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2795
Post Re: Zimmerman
My error on the screwdriver/jewelry wasn't a mistake, just a mixup of stories. I said I was wrong. It's not false.

Lean and purple lean which is a variant of purple drank is made by Watermelon Arizona and Skittles. And his phone information has conversations of people asking him for codeine and him telling them to use Robitussin instead. But that's just coincidence? You buy a drink and snack, and after a 40 minute walk home, neither the drink or snack was opened. But that's false too right? This isn't evidence of anything, but it's part of the big picture that we're supposed to just ignore. 2/3 of the ingredients on him, and he wasn't drinking or eating those ingredients for the 40 minutes he had them.

And i'm not demonizing Trayvon. It's not demonizing to tell the truth. It's all relevant to his behavior that night. To claim he was innocent, and that he was an angel that did no wrong is a tactic. They repeatedly said he was never arrested. But they failed to mention the multiple suspensions. The fact that he was on suspension when this happened, and his parents had no idea what he was suspended for, shows that he had issues. Ignoring things that actually happened doesn't make them just go away.

Also Blue, no one's saying that he was up to no good because he hung around for 40 minutes. But the fact that he hung around erases the claim that he was just walking home from 7-11. That's the false narrative. He wasn't an angel just going home.

Also, none of this mattered. He could have been a convicted felon and if George attacked first, he would have been found guilty. All the evidence showed that Trayvon was the only attacker. The public outcry is because Zimmerman was painted as a racist by blatant editing of 9-11 calls from the very beginning. There's so many false statements still being pushed around in the media that have been proven false. That is the reason for the outcry. If you believed that he got out of his car AFTER he was told he didn't have to follow, you'd be outraged too. If you believed he was calling Trayvon an a**hole and punk instead of the kids who kept getting away with the burglaries, you'd be outraged too. If you believed that Zimmerman was stalking him, or racially profiling him instead of following and observing and that profiling not based on race is not only legal but the best method, you'd be outraged too. And this is what is constantly being spewed over and over.

Pablo - he didn't disobey. He was already out of the car when he was asked that, said ok, then started walking back to his truck. He was slow getting back because the dispatcher asked him if he saw where he was going. He was jumped on his way back to his truck.


July 30th, 2013, 10:12 am
Profile
Online
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1165
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Zimmerman
wjb21ndtown wrote:
Zimmerman started the 911 call by stating that he was "looking about," that "something was up with him," and that he "looked like he was on drugs."

So at no point has Zimmerman said that Martin was looking into windows?

So where did you get that from?

wjb21ndtown wrote:
The thug pics [...] The pictures are there. You can see them. They've been released (some of them). It's not a "fake made up thing."

They are of a different person. http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp It is a fake made up thing, sorry.

wjb21ndtown wrote:
the screwdriver, the stolen jewelry, etc. aren't "false allegations" they are part of Travon Martin's past.

The allegation that they were on him at the time of the shooting (made in this thread) was false. You will note that I said: "screwdrivers on the night in question".

It is true that the allegation that they were part of his past has been made. Whether that allegation is true or not, we don't know.

Quote:
There's really no need to demonize Martin. The simple argument of: "Martin attacked Zimmerman, who fearing for his life, shot him in self defense." is reasonable enough.

Completely agree.


July 30th, 2013, 10:19 am
Profile
Online
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1165
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Zimmerman
njroar wrote:
There's so many false statements still being pushed around in the media that have been proven false.

Yup. On both sides. It's saddening. The agenda trumps the facts (what few we know), whichever side of the debate you fall down on.


July 30th, 2013, 10:43 am
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2795
Post Re: Zimmerman
Uk - yes, those photos in snopes were debunked a long time ago. That's not the photos we're talking about. We're talking about his facebook, twitter and his own cell phone images and conversations.


July 30th, 2013, 10:44 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9891
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: Zimmerman
Pablo wrote:
The verdict represents a decision based upon the laws of Florida, I have faith that the jury applied the laws to the case correctly. That said, Zimmerman is not without fault and a young boy is dead. Martin also had fault, however, he did not deserve to die. Each individual history had no bearing on the case IMO, the case was based on the actions of that individual night.

Regardless of what Martin did, the police instructed Zimmerman to stop following Martin - he disobeyed the police. I find it interesting that people jump on Martin for not answering Zimmerman when questioned yet Zimmerman (because he was part of neighborhood watch) seems to have a free pass for ignoring what the police told him not to do.


Pablo, the bolded part you mention is 100% false. He was never given 'orders' to stop. A police dispatcher said 'you don't have to do that'. That is not a police order. And I don't recall anybody saying anything about Martin not answering Zimmerman. Everyone is 'jumping on' Martin because he attacked Zimmerman without just provocation.

What I find most interesting is that there are people (not necessarily on this forum) who claim Martin had a right to 'stand his ground', yet were eager to deny Zimmerman that same right when it was originally felt he would claim that clause of the Florida Castle Doctrine as his right to self defense. Tell me that isn't hypocrisy at it's highest level. Deny the guy who got attacked, but claim the person being followed can use that defense, even though he technically isn't 'standing his ground' when launching a physical assault without an incident to justify it. Now Martin's mother is trying to get Stand Your Ground laws repealed, despite the fact that more blacks in Florida have used that defense successfully than whites.

Martin's history can be seen as a justification of what Zimmerman was claiming when he was on the phone. Martin being kicked out of school, the backpack with the jewelry and screwdriver, his Facebook postings and pictures....they all create a profile of a person who viewed violence and criminal life as something they were either involved in, or wanted to become involved in. It supports Zimmerman's claim that Martin could have been up to more than just walking home, as Martin's family would have the world believe. As for the idea that Martin could have been doing any number of things during the time he was gone, that's true. But without any testimony or witnesses to come forward and claim he was doing anything else, we must accept the fact that Zimmerman saw something more than just a kid walking home from the store. There's a big difference between someone walking with a purpose, and someone who is trespassing on property without the purpose of going from point A to point B.

So, in short...Pablo, quit claiming that Zimmerman ignored the police orders. The police never gave Zimmerman any orders.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


July 30th, 2013, 12:13 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2700
Post Re: Zimmerman
Quote:
It supports Zimmerman's claim that Martin could have been up to more than just walking home, as Martin's family would have the world believe. As for the idea that Martin could have been doing any number of things during the time he was gone, that's true. But without any testimony or witnesses to come forward and claim he was doing anything else, we must accept the fact that Zimmerman saw something more than just a kid walking home from the store.


Um...that's exactly what he saw. He saw Martin walking home. What else was he doing? I suppose Martin could've been acting "suspicious" but that's a subjective term. There was no proof that he was up to anything nefarious.

And yes, the dispatcher isn't an actual police officer and the statement of "we don't need you to do that" isn't a direct order. However, Zimmerman should've kept his distance, and that's what the dispatcher suggested that he do.

Let's say Martin wasn't a 160lb, 17 year old punk, and was instead a 250 lb 25 year old ex-con looking for trouble? A bigger man could've actually killed Zimmerman or given him severe brain damage by smashing his head into the pavement.


July 30th, 2013, 4:18 pm
Profile
Online
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1165
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Zimmerman
njroar wrote:
We're talking about his facebook, twitter and his own cell phone images and conversations.

Link?


July 30th, 2013, 5:58 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2795
Post Re: Zimmerman
http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/di ... photos.pdf

notice the cups of lean?

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/di ... photos.pdf

You can go through all the text messages here as well as everything else: http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/co ... -discovery


Remember all of this was not allowed ONLY for the reason that they couldn't be authenticated. That's because the prosecution never gave it to the defense until the State IT guy went to the defense. He felt he was going to be held liable for withholding evidence. The judge didn't give the defense time to authenticate because trial was due to start in a few days. It was all in a password protected folder and this is what the prosecutors and the judge are going to face a hearing on for misconduct.

Again, this isn't trying to tarnish the name of Trayvon. This is all supporting of the reasons the police and district attorney weren't going to bring charges initially. There was a grand jury scheduled to look it over but the Governor appointed the special prosecutor which took it away from the grand jury and pushed it to trial under political pressure.


July 30th, 2013, 7:44 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2700
Post Re: Zimmerman
Quote:
To create Lean, a popular drink originated from Houston Texas, you require the following for the original formula:

-Promethazine w/Codeine VC <- Sizzurp (active ingredient)
-Original Sprite Soda <- Mixing ingredient (although different flavors of sprite are now used, such as sprite remix)
-Jolly rancher candy <- Flavor additive

Put it all in a styrofoam cup and enjoy. The codeine is mainly responsible for the euphoric feeling after drinking lean. Promethazine causes motor skill impairment, lethargy, extreme drowsiness, as well as a disassociative feeling from all other parts of the body, specifically the stomach and digestive system. If it doesn't have promethazine w/ Codeine, it isn't real sizzurp.

The mixed drink combination known as "lean", is normally the color purple, due the added ingredient sizzurp, which is originally a dark purple syrup. There are other colors of sizzurp which can be added to create lean, but the purple is the true sizurp


July 30th, 2013, 7:52 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2795
Post Re: Zimmerman
Is this recipe time?

Quote:
Purple Drank is a intoxicating beverage also known by the names lean, sizzurp, and liquid codeine. It is commonly abused by southern rappers and wannabe suburban teenagers. It is a mixture of Promethazine/Codeine cough syrup and sprite, with a few jolly ranchers and/or skittles thrown in.


All you have to do is a simple search and you'll see that it's a popular thing to swap out sprite for Arizona Watermelon fruit juice (which is what Trayvon bought - not ice tea).

Teenagers and young adults are finding all sort of ways to get high nowadays. It's not a black thing, I know plenty of white kids that make it and brag about it too, and that's up here in Jersey. It wasn't a racial thing at all, it was only saying that Trayvon wasn't an innocent kid that never did wrong like a lot of the stories are portraying. It's easy to paint someone as a murderer if you make it look like the victim is a defenseless, innocent child. Even the jurors have said emotionally they wanted to find him guilty. But the law demanded that they find him innocent.

It's a tragedy someone died. But it's a worse tragedy that the narrative is being spun into something it's not.


July 30th, 2013, 11:27 pm
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2700
Post Re: Zimmerman
I'm not sure why, but I just wasted the last 10 mins of my life searching.

I can not find any reference to purple drank made with Arizona Watermelon. I even went on erowid and looked at a few self-reports, and people all talk about Sprite or 7-up -- nothing about Arizona Watermelon.

And again, I implore you, if he was making purple drank, where was the most important ingredient of all?


July 31st, 2013, 12:15 am
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 am
Posts: 2795
Post Re: Zimmerman
At home... which is why he walked around for 40 minutes without opening the drink or skittles. Robitussin DM requires you to be 18. If he couldn't purchase blunts, they aren't going to sell him that. Also, He wasn't making it while he attacked Zimmerman. Both were unopened when the police collected them. All it is, is two pieces of evidence that when combined with the text messages and photos paints a much different picture than the innocent child that is being portrayed in the media. He was an ordinary teenager in America, but he was not that 12 year old boy that the media wanted everyone to believe he was. That's all.


July 31st, 2013, 1:15 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 96 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.