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 Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money 
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Post Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
http://m.detnews.com/topstories/article ... 098&f=1207

Quote:
The Lions were the only NFL team to lose money last year and are the 28th-most valuable team out of 32 teams in the league, Forbes reported in its annual valuations.

According to the Forbes rankings, which are based on estimates, the Lions are worth $900 million, with $248 million in revenue and an operating income of minus-$3.5 million. In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys, the most NFL valuable team, are worth $2.3 billion, with $539 million in revenue and an operating income of $250.7 million

The Cowboys have been the NFL's most valuable team for seven straight years, according to Forbes.


August 14th, 2013, 11:52 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
wjb21ndtown wrote:
http://m.detnews.com/topstories/article?a=2013308140098&f=1207

Quote:
The Lions were the only NFL team to lose money last year and are the 28th-most valuable team out of 32 teams in the league, Forbes reported in its annual valuations.

According to the Forbes rankings, which are based on estimates, the Lions are worth $900 million, with $248 million in revenue and an operating income of minus-$3.5 million. In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys, the most NFL valuable team, are worth $2.3 billion, with $539 million in revenue and an operating income of $250.7 million

The Cowboys have been the NFL's most valuable team for seven straight years, according to Forbes.



Since when did the Bills and Jax start turning a profit?


wasnt it last year those were the two teams who declared a loss?

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August 15th, 2013, 10:27 am
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
regularjoe12 wrote:
wjb21ndtown wrote:
http://m.detnews.com/topstories/article?a=2013308140098&f=1207

Quote:
The Lions were the only NFL team to lose money last year and are the 28th-most valuable team out of 32 teams in the league, Forbes reported in its annual valuations.

According to the Forbes rankings, which are based on estimates, the Lions are worth $900 million, with $248 million in revenue and an operating income of minus-$3.5 million. In comparison, the Dallas Cowboys, the most NFL valuable team, are worth $2.3 billion, with $539 million in revenue and an operating income of $250.7 million

The Cowboys have been the NFL's most valuable team for seven straight years, according to Forbes.



Since when did the Bills and Jax start turning a profit?


wasnt it last year those were the two teams who declared a loss?


Jax has always been a joke, but they've always been profitable to the best of my knowledge. The Bills were the only other team that was losing money 2 years ago, but they did some pretty big things (getting rid of Lynch), and signed some reasonable contracts. They have literally the lowest salary cap in the NFL, and have almost $30 mill to spend, if they want to. They're being smart, IMO. Build up a pile of cash, get some top prospects, and make a run. We were still spending the whole cap all of those years that we were sucking, which is why we're having trouble getting anywhere now.


August 15th, 2013, 4:37 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
I'm thrilled the Lions are losing money.

If they were under-spending, making tons of money, and still being a **** team, I'd be pissed.


August 15th, 2013, 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
The Bills haven't been close to smart in the last few years. They overreacted to a couple good games by Fitzpatrick against some mediocre teams and overpaid him only to let him go. They also overpaid to get Mario Williams knowing that was the only way they could land him, how has that worked out? They were nearly bad pick for bad pick with the Lions over the same stretch of time. The Lions have a new GM so it will be interesting to see where they go in the future, but it is all going to have to happen through the draft or overpaying FAs, the bottom line is nobody with a choice of what team they want to go to is going to pick to live in Buffalo.


August 15th, 2013, 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
sweetd20 wrote:
The Bills haven't been close to smart in the last few years. They overreacted to a couple good games by Fitzpatrick against some mediocre teams and overpaid him only to let him go. They also overpaid to get Mario Williams knowing that was the only way they could land him, how has that worked out? They were nearly bad pick for bad pick with the Lions over the same stretch of time. The Lions have a new GM so it will be interesting to see where they go in the future, but it is all going to have to happen through the draft or overpaying FAs, the bottom line is nobody with a choice of what team they want to go to is going to pick to live in Buffalo.


You have to over-pay for high-level talent here and there. They're $30 million under the cap, they're a decent team, and they're profitable. Hard to argue that they're not doing better than the Lions. Don't even get me started on how many player's we've stupidly over paid "just to get them here, because we had to." What a load of crap... We do it all the time.


August 15th, 2013, 6:45 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
Salaries have no part of it. It's about the stadium and team itself making profit. Not whether or not it falls under the salary cap. The estimations only deal with the team directly. Not Ford's involvement which could be willing to take a loss for cheaper consignments or whatever. They have no access to the books, so this is nothing more than a guessing game.


August 15th, 2013, 7:19 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
njroar wrote:
Salaries have no part of it. It's about the stadium and team itself making profit. Not whether or not it falls under the salary cap. The estimations only deal with the team directly. Not Ford's involvement which could be willing to take a loss for cheaper consignments or whatever. They have no access to the books, so this is nothing more than a guessing game.



Are you insane? Teams pay the salaries, and thus if you pay more you have to generate more to compensate for it. If the Bills spent their entire salary cap, they wouldn't be profitable with the same fan support. Of course salary cap matters when you're talking about business profitability.

It just goes to show, it's one thing to not spend any money and suck, but it's another to spend quite literally every dime of the salary cap and STILL suck as bad as we do, AND lose money in the process, selling out games every week. BRILLIANT!!!

How Mayhew has a job is beyond me. He has failed at every aspect of his job.


August 15th, 2013, 8:24 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
Quote:
They're $30 million under the cap, they're a decent team, and they're profitable. Hard to argue that they're not doing better than the Lions.


First, the Bills are horrible. They've gone 6-10 the last two seasons. They have a new coach/GM now so they might improve, but I don't look at the Bills roster and expect anything significant anytime soon.

Second, who gives a **** about a team's profitability?

Are you going to buy stock in a team or something? I mean seriously, it's irrelevant to any person who isn't interested in buying a team (even then, most team owners are independently wealthy businessmen who buy teams just for fun).


August 15th, 2013, 11:02 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
As it goes in football, winning cures everything...

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August 16th, 2013, 11:19 am
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
Blueskies wrote:
Quote:
They're $30 million under the cap, they're a decent team, and they're profitable. Hard to argue that they're not doing better than the Lions.


First, the Bills are horrible. They've gone 6-10 the last two seasons. They have a new coach/GM now so they might improve, but I don't look at the Bills roster and expect anything significant anytime soon.

Second, who gives a **** about a team's profitability?

Are you going to buy stock in a team or something? I mean seriously, it's irrelevant to any person who isn't interested in buying a team (even then, most team owners are independently wealthy businessmen who buy teams just for fun).


Who cares about the teams profitability? The owner? The GM? And the fans should. If the team isn't profitable any success can't be sustained. And, if a team isn't profitable it's probably not going to be very successful in the first place.

The bills spent $30 mill under the cap and went 6-10, and they can afford 3 top level FAs at any position, meaning, they have options. Meaning, they're better off than an expansion team, meaning, there's room for the bills to do well, add pieces, and thrive. They're not held back by ridiculous contracts. What was our record last season? What did we spend? How many ridiculous, unsupported contracts do we have? How much of our team is "leveraged" by "future player growth," not current production? And you want to argue that we're better off?

On what planet?


August 16th, 2013, 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
The Bills were $21m under the cap in 2011. They carried that over to 2012.

From 2012 to 2013 they are carrying over just short of $10m.

Looks to me that they finished 6-10 whilst $11m over the "regular*" cap, not $30m under it.

*by regular cap, I mean the cap figure without rollovers added.

Sorry - link now added: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/2/ ... 15-million


August 16th, 2013, 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
UK Lion wrote:
The Bills were $21m under the cap in 2011. They carried that over to 2012.

From 2012 to 2013 they are carrying over just short of $10m.

Looks to me that they finished 6-10 whilst $11m over the "regular*" cap, not $30m under it.

*by regular cap, I mean the cap figure without rollovers added.

Sorry - link now added: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/2/ ... 15-million


Whatever you want to call this "over the cap" vs "regular" cap, if you're talking about prorated signing bonuses and future guaranteed money, every team has that, and I guaranty you we're in worse shape.


This is the best break down I've seen:

http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nfl/


August 16th, 2013, 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
I'm not talking about any of those things. I'm talking about cap rollover - the number in the 5th column of the link you provided.

Under the new CBA, if a team is under the base/regular cap for a year, they can roll that cap space over into the next year's cap. So imagine the league sets the cap at $100m for 2012 and the Bills spent $90m. In 2013 the cap is set at $105m - the Bills will have a cap of $115m in 2013, made up of the $105m base/regular cap and the $10m rollover.

From the various links we have, the Bills were $21m under the cap in 2011. So they rolled that over to 2012. From 2012 to 2013 they rolled over $9.8m. So that means that in 2012 they were $9.8m under their cap (whilst compiling their 6-10 record), not $30m under as you have claimed (that's their current cap space for 2013, not 2012). It also means they were $11.2m over the league/base/regular cap for 2012.

For the Lions, Net Rat estimated us as $1.6m under the cap for 2011. Your site has us carrying over $400k from last year to this, so we will have been $1.2m over the league/base/regular cap in 2012.

In other words, for 2012 the Bills spent $10m more than us, not $30m less as you've said.


August 17th, 2013, 7:31 am
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Post Re: Detroit Lions, Only NFL team losing money
UK Lion wrote:
I'm not talking about any of those things. I'm talking about cap rollover - the number in the 5th column of the link you provided.

Under the new CBA, if a team is under the base/regular cap for a year, they can roll that cap space over into the next year's cap. So imagine the league sets the cap at $100m for 2012 and the Bills spent $90m. In 2013 the cap is set at $105m - the Bills will have a cap of $115m in 2013, made up of the $105m base/regular cap and the $10m rollover.

From the various links we have, the Bills were $21m under the cap in 2011. So they rolled that over to 2012. From 2012 to 2013 they rolled over $9.8m. So that means that in 2012 they were $9.8m under their cap (whilst compiling their 6-10 record), not $30m under as you have claimed (that's their current cap space for 2013, not 2012). It also means they were $11.2m over the league/base/regular cap for 2012.

For the Lions, Net Rat estimated us as $1.6m under the cap for 2011. Your site has us carrying over $400k from last year to this, so we will have been $1.2m over the league/base/regular cap in 2012.

In other words, for 2012 the Bills spent $10m more than us, not $30m less as you've said.


If you want to say that they were much more fiscally responsible years ago, and squandered some of that fiscal responsibility last year, fine... The fact remains, they're in a much better position than we are with their team and with the cap, AND they're making money, while things keep getting worse for the Lions.

You used to only be able to buy full season packages for Lions games... Then it changed to 1/2 season packages, but we "weren't in any trouble with our fan base." (Bullsh!t!)... Now you can buy single games, for the first time in decades. We're on the wrong trend, we're being piloted and crewed by morons, and things aren't getting better here.


August 17th, 2013, 10:49 am
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