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 Next Up: Green Bay Packers 
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
njroar wrote:
I don't care if the media starts covering it more. It'll all be Reggie MVP talk which will just make defenses start playing the run more, which will open up CJ. More importantly, if we win in Lambeau.. I think the team will believe they can win anywhere, which is a good thing.


Two years ago the Lions were riding a wave of high expectations after the Moday night victory against Chicago in Detroit. They were 5-0 at that point, and had already pulled out a couple miracle comeback wins (Dallas and Minnesota). All that came crashing down when they lost to SF in the waning seconds. Then they lost to Atlanta. I think those two losses put them back into reality.

Until this team wins consistently and with authority, my expectations will remain grounded. I don't expect them to win at Lambeau, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Likewise, I expect them to be able to beat the Cleveland Browns, but won't be surprised if they lose that game.

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October 3rd, 2013, 3:33 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
A lot talk about them being mentally blinded in 2011, but the reason the team dropped off was the loss of Best. The team became one dimensional and easier to defend. Our interior line couldn't open holes for anyone except Best. This year, it's a different story. Bush is getting huge holes. I think even Leshoure would look decent. We still have issues (like every team), but we're more complete all around.

But I do agree, I think this game wouldn't be a surprise to win or lose. So far we haven't had a complete game, so until or if they're even capable of putting a complete game forward, it's too early to think they'll be able to win consistently.


October 3rd, 2013, 4:35 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
njroar wrote:
A lot talk about them being mentally blinded in 2011, but the reason the team dropped off was the loss of Best. The team became one dimensional and easier to defend. Our interior line couldn't open holes for anyone except Best. This year, it's a different story. Bush is getting huge holes. I think even Leshoure would look decent. We still have issues (like every team), but we're more complete all around.

But I do agree, I think this game wouldn't be a surprise to win or lose. So far we haven't had a complete game, so until or if they're even capable of putting a complete game forward, it's too early to think they'll be able to win consistently.


Agreed


October 3rd, 2013, 5:33 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
njroar wrote:
A lot talk about them being mentally blinded in 2011, but the reason the team dropped off was the loss of Best. The team became one dimensional and easier to defend. Our interior line couldn't open holes for anyone except Best. This year, it's a different story. Bush is getting huge holes. I think even Leshoure would look decent. We still have issues (like every team), but we're more complete all around.

But I do agree, I think this game wouldn't be a surprise to win or lose. So far we haven't had a complete game, so until or if they're even capable of putting a complete game forward, it's too early to think they'll be able to win consistently.

I honestly think the Lions are about 6 good players away from being a team that can win consistently.
Two cornerbacks, one linebacker, one center, and two wide receivers. That is, as long as players keep playing the way they have these first four games.


October 3rd, 2013, 5:49 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
HechePipe wrote:
I honestly think the Lions are about 6 good players away from being a team that can win consistently.
Two cornerbacks, one linebacker, one center, and two wide receivers. That is, as long as players keep playing the way they have these first four games.

Do you realize that being 6 players away is not being close. I don't think they're that far off. I'll take your list one at a time:

- 2 CB: Houston has played well, and they just drafted Slay, who shows promise. For now they don't need to focus on finding more CBs. They need to focus on getting the ones they have up to speed.
- LB: I agree they could use a good LB.
- Center: Long term, yes. This year Dom has played quite well.
- 2 WR: why do they need 2 more good WR? They really only need a good WR2. They already have a good slot guy in Broyles, and Burleson is also a good slot guy for the next year or so.

Honestly, if players play up to their abilities, they can win consistently now. Long term, yes they need at least a good C and a good WR. Other than that, they may be ok with the current roster.

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October 4th, 2013, 9:40 am
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
Houston's back at practice today. :idea: :arrow:

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October 4th, 2013, 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
I honestly think the Lions are about 6 good players away from being a team that can win consistently.
Two cornerbacks, one linebacker, one center, and two wide receivers. That is, as long as players keep playing the way they have these first four games.

Do you realize that being 6 players away is not being close. I don't think they're that far off. I'll take your list one at a time:

- 2 CB: Houston has played well, and they just drafted Slay, who shows promise. For now they don't need to focus on finding more CBs. They need to focus on getting the ones they have up to speed.
- LB: I agree they could use a good LB.
- Center: Long term, yes. This year Dom has played quite well.
- 2 WR: why do they need 2 more good WR? They really only need a good WR2. They already have a good slot guy in Broyles, and Burleson is also a good slot guy for the next year or so.

Honestly, if players play up to their abilities, they can win consistently now. Long term, yes they need at least a good C and a good WR. Other than that, they may be ok with the current roster.


TDJ, I completely agree. I don't know why, but Chris Houston gets little love here, and all he does is keep the oppositions leading receiver in check. He may not be Patrick Peterson or Darrelle Revis, but you don't see him getting beat deep all too often. And that happens even to the best cover guys from time to time.

So, I agree that Slay is an 'up and comer', but we thought the same of Bentley and Green last year. I think they have reached their highest potential, and that's not worth a starting role. Slay could still get there, but we won't know that until sometime next season.

Linebackers? I'd say we need two. We need an immediate starter on the outside to replace Palmer, who has been dreadful. Levy has played well. Long term we may need a Mike to eventually take over for Tulloch. I don't think Travis Lewis is that guy. I think he's better suited for playing outside or being the nickel backer. All others haven't impressed.

Center? I'd love to see us get a really good center in the next draft. For now, as you said, Dom may be having his finest season.

Two receivers? No. A good compliment to Calvin is defintely needed. Someone about 6'2" and around 210 pounds with the speed to threaten deep, but the ability to get open through their wits or speed out of their breaks. It seems like our receivers just struggle week in and week out to get ample separation. Broyles, Burleson and Edwards are slot receivers. Durham doesn't have the speed or athletic skills to create ample separation. And I don't believe Ogletree is the answer to my prayer, although he is probably a step up from Durham.

We will also need another tight end next year (or two) as I am desperately hoping the Lions don't resign Pettigrew. We also don't truly know what we have in Michael Williams. Lastly, I don't see the Lions keeping Scheffler either for the future, since Fauria is a younger, faster, cheaper version of him.

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October 4th, 2013, 1:30 pm
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Post Calvin listed as questionable(knee)
http://www.detroitlions.com/news/lions- ... 9699a0f2c8

That appears to be the most up to date injury report. Forget about houston maybe not playing, if Calvin does play, it could get ugly.


October 4th, 2013, 4:31 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
I honestly think the Lions are about 6 good players away from being a team that can win consistently.
Two cornerbacks, one linebacker, one center, and two wide receivers. That is, as long as players keep playing the way they have these first four games.

Do you realize that being 6 players away is not being close. I don't think they're that far off. I'll take your list one at a time:

- 2 CB: Houston has played well, and they just drafted Slay, who shows promise. For now they don't need to focus on finding more CBs. They need to focus on getting the ones they have up to speed.
- LB: I agree they could use a good LB.
- Center: Long term, yes. This year Dom has played quite well.
- 2 WR: why do they need 2 more good WR? They really only need a good WR2. They already have a good slot guy in Broyles, and Burleson is also a good slot guy for the next year or so.

Honestly, if players play up to their abilities, they can win consistently now. Long term, yes they need at least a good C and a good WR. Other than that, they may be ok with the current roster.

I think you're overestimating how difficult it is to upgrade six players.
This year, the Lions are rolling in with 2 new tackles, one new guard, a new starting RB, a new safety, a new corner, a new wide receiver and a new DE.
That makes 8 players starting this year that weren't starting last year.
They don't need 6 pro-bowlers, they just need 6 upgrades.

First of all, Slay has played well, Houston has played well. But how much longer does Houston have in the tank as an effective CB? As of today, Slay isn't starting material. I hope that changes and takes a position off my list to leave only 4-5 players away. But today, I can't guarantee that Slay is the guy, can you?
Center- Of course Dom has played well. With his age, I think a center in development is a great idea and maybe give the guy reps in running situations on 3rd down. I think the running game could benefit from a center that can knock a tackle on his @ss and open a hole for Reggie, though.
WR- they need two wide receivers because again, as of today, Broyles has had 2 knee surgeries in 2 years. He's healthy today, but what about tomorrow? It's fine for this season, but I'm talking about winning CONSISTENTLY. As in, year in and year out. If Broyles stays healthy and keeps moving the chains, then great, make it 3 or 4 players on the "must have" list. You've got Burleson, but is he the long-term answer? Are we just going to play him until he's in a walker? Plus, every year, he's out for at least 3 games it seems. I know the pizza thing was a freak accident, but still...
With that said, Mayhew SHOULD be able to upgrade at least 4 of these positions by next September. It's not a pipe-dream like you think.


October 4th, 2013, 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
HechePipe wrote:
I think you're overestimating how difficult it is to upgrade six players.
This year, the Lions are rolling in with 2 new tackles, one new guard, a new starting RB, a new safety, a new corner, a new wide receiver and a new DE.
That makes 8 players starting this year that weren't starting last year.
They don't need 6 pro-bowlers, they just need 6 upgrades.


Who is the new wide receiver? If you are saying Fauria, he's a tight end (which you failed to mention). Kris Durham technically isn't new, since he played for the Lions last year.

HechePipe wrote:
First of all, Slay has played well, Houston has played well. But how much longer does Houston have in the tank as an effective CB? As of today, Slay isn't starting material. I hope that changes and takes a position off my list to leave only 4-5 players away. But today, I can't guarantee that Slay is the guy, can you?

If Houston's skills start to slide, he can play as the #2 corner for at least another year or two. If he is willing to accept that role and be paid accordingly, no reason to release him. There are no guarantees that Slay is destined to even be a starting caliber CB right now. It all depends on how well he develops through the year. That's why we wait until years end to determine what we need in the off-season, and not make that determination now.
HechePipe wrote:
Center- Of course Dom has played well. With his age, I think a center in development is a great idea and maybe give the guy reps in running situations on 3rd down. I think the running game could benefit from a center that can knock a tackle on his @ss and open a hole for Reggie, though.

I don't know if Dylan Gandy is a starting quality guy, and I don't know if Rodney Austin can handle the job either. I wasn't particularly impressed with them during the pre-season, though they didn't screw up completely either. I am still of the opinion that after left tackle, the center position is the most important one on the line and should be addressed with quality out of the draft. It is the reason I wanted the Lions to take Wisniewski in the second round of 2011 rather than Titus Young, and wanted Peter Konz ahead of Ryan Broyles in 2012. Despite how well Raiola is playing so far, I think either of those two players would be an upgrade right now.
HechePipe wrote:
WR- they need two wide receivers because again, as of today, Broyles has had 2 knee surgeries in 2 years. He's healthy today, but what about tomorrow? It's fine for this season, but I'm talking about winning CONSISTENTLY. As in, year in and year out. If Broyles stays healthy and keeps moving the chains, then great, make it 3 or 4 players on the "must have" list. You've got Burleson, but is he the long-term answer? Are we just going to play him until he's in a walker? Plus, every year, he's out for at least 3 games it seems. I know the pizza thing was a freak accident, but still...
With that said, Mayhew SHOULD be able to upgrade at least 4 of these positions by next September. It's not a pipe-dream like you think.

Still don't need two receivers. We still have others. Once again, this is why these determinations are made at the end of the season. What if Broyles does stay healthy? What if Durham starts lighting it up? Or Patrick Edwards? What if Ogletree has a semi-breakout season?

In the end we are not really able to make these determinations, but merely contemplating the 'what ifs'. Certainly other needs will arise during season as some players get hurt, or their play deteriorates. Another thing to remember is that our depth at DT is shaky, at best. That may need to be better addressed. Same with depth at DE.

Right now, it's just grasping at straws.

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October 4th, 2013, 10:33 pm
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
njroar wrote:
A lot talk about them being mentally blinded in 2011, but the reason the team dropped off was the loss of Best. The team became one dimensional and easier to defend. Our interior line couldn't open holes for anyone except Best. This year, it's a different story. Bush is getting huge holes. I think even Leshoure would look decent. We still have issues (like every team), but we're more complete all around.

But I do agree, I think this game wouldn't be a surprise to win or lose. So far we haven't had a complete game, so until or if they're even capable of putting a complete game forward, it's too early to think they'll be able to win consistently.


i think they played a complete game vs the bears though it may not have been for 60 minutes, still they came out clicking on all cylinders. coach schwartz just prefers to take his foot off the gas.

i agree about best, the lions had been very predictable since his injuries. they badly needed a dynamic runner and a 2nd receiver. bush has been both. i think best was faster and better reading blocks but Bush is a lil more physical, harder to bring down, equally as elusive and significantly better out of the slot


October 5th, 2013, 8:29 am
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
Big matchups in this one:

Lions DL vs GB OL: Clear advantage to the Lions but Rodgers is atheltic and pretty accurate on the move. How many plays can he make, how much punishment can he take and will the refs sway the difference with penalty calls against the Lions reputation.

Lions CB vs GB WR: Huge advantage to the Packers. Arizona also had a weak OL and 3 good WRs. GBs are better and so is the guy getting the ball to them. They will go after Slay and Bentley all game long and can force whatever matchup they want. Safeties will have to have big games esp if Houston and Mathis miss some time. Jermichael Finely warrants attention as the TE also.

Lions O vs GB defense: Lions have some clear advantages and I think will win the battle on the LOS. Im not impressed by the GB D-line and they ve been a weakness. GB does have a solid LB crew and mix in enough blitzes that could cause some confusion. In the secondary, Charles Woodson is no longer and Casey Hayward I believe is out, Lions could have some advantages.

Lions have a very real shot to win this but I think even with consistent pressure on Rodgers he usually finds a way to make plays and has a lot of good targets. It should be a shootout.

GB 41
DET 38


October 5th, 2013, 8:39 am
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
The Lions certainly have a shot at winning. I don't think there's any team that the Lions just simply can't beat no matter what, even Peyton and the Broncos. It's just a matter of the Lions playing smart football, and the coaches calling a smart game. Chicago was the first game where I was happy with Linehan's playcalling. He mixed it up more on first down. He was being pretty predictable in the first three games, which is why I feel that Arizona and Washington weren't impressive games for this team. As many mistakes as the players made, the coaches were making equal mistakes.

It still pisses me off that the Lions couldn't win at Lambeau two years ago against Matt Flynn. That game was a trainwreck.

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October 5th, 2013, 10:01 am
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
Over the course of the next two offseasons, here's what we need:

2014: Center, LB, WR, RT, DE, TE

Dom's contract is up and he's old. We should have drafted an eventual replacement last year so the guy could learn on the bench and then take over, but it is what it is. We may sign Dom again to a one or two year deal so a rookie doesn't have to jump right in next year. I think they played Austin at center a bit so maybe they have plans for him? Palmer needs to be replaced at OLB immediately and in 2-3 seasons so will Tullouch. I don't think the young guys we currently have are up to it. WR we need someone big enough and fast enough to play on the outside and take attention away from CJ. I won't mention the name but a player like him but without the psychosis. Fox can't stay healthy and his contract is up. Hilliard is a journeyman. Maybe Waddle steps into the spot next year? Ansah is set at one DE spot, but Young is a FA next year and Jones will be coming off injury. Devin Taylor is a good backup but we'll need another depth player here. Both Pett and Scheff are FA next year. I think Fauria can fill the Scheff role and Williams hopefully can fill the spot Heller used to hold down as #3/blocking TE. But we need someone who can block and be a safety valve over the middle a combination of Fauria and Williams. Or Fauria can keep improving his blocking then we'll be ok.

New starters at 3 positions (C, LB and #2WR) will help us take the next step next year. I think 3 players is pretty reasonable.

2015: S, LG, CB
It's as simple as expiring contracts. Sims and Delmas will be FA. If Delmas has stayed healthy, we'll probably sign him. Sims will be 31 at this point so it'll depend on how much he's deteriorated. As for CB, Houston will be 30 and by now we'll know if Slay can be a #1 or #2 guy.


October 5th, 2013, 11:40 am
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Post Re: Next Up: Green Bay Packers
inheritedlionsfan wrote:
Over the course of the next two offseasons, here's what we need:

2014: Center, LB, WR, RT, DE, TE

Dom's contract is up and he's old. We should have drafted an eventual replacement last year so the guy could learn on the bench and then take over, but it is what it is. We may sign Dom again to a one or two year deal so a rookie doesn't have to jump right in next year. I think they played Austin at center a bit so maybe they have plans for him? Palmer needs to be replaced at OLB immediately and in 2-3 seasons so will Tullouch. I don't think the young guys we currently have are up to it. WR we need someone big enough and fast enough to play on the outside and take attention away from CJ. I won't mention the name but a player like him but without the psychosis. Fox can't stay healthy and his contract is up. Hilliard is a journeyman. Maybe Waddle steps into the spot next year? Ansah is set at one DE spot, but Young is a FA next year and Jones will be coming off injury. Devin Taylor is a good backup but we'll need another depth player here. Both Pett and Scheff are FA next year. I think Fauria can fill the Scheff role and Williams hopefully can fill the spot Heller used to hold down as #3/blocking TE. But we need someone who can block and be a safety valve over the middle a combination of Fauria and Williams. Or Fauria can keep improving his blocking then we'll be ok.

New starters at 3 positions (C, LB and #2WR) will help us take the next step next year. I think 3 players is pretty reasonable.

2015: S, LG, CB
It's as simple as expiring contracts. Sims and Delmas will be FA. If Delmas has stayed healthy, we'll probably sign him. Sims will be 31 at this point so it'll depend on how much he's deteriorated. As for CB, Houston will be 30 and by now we'll know if Slay can be a #1 or #2 guy.


WAAAY to early to be discussing need for 2 years. Everything could change in 2 years. do we resign Suh? or take his money and get 3-4 starters? did we find a gem in Waddle? no way of telling. we have needs THIS year, but looking beyond that is like putting together a mock draft for 2015. Just simply too early to even speculate at this point.

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Last edited by regularjoe12 on October 5th, 2013, 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.



October 5th, 2013, 11:58 am
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