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 Freeman a free man 
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
Pablo wrote:
oh they nay-sayers, I'm glad so often ye have been ignored over the years or we would still be living in the stone age.

We have technology now, can't they play this over Skype or something?

Players won't want to play in London? I'd personally rather play in Wembly than whatever empty dump they play in Jax. Talk about a home field advantage, they would have a home country advantage. As a great player, think about opening up endorsements to a whole new continent $$$.

As for the logistics, they just have to work out a schedule that makes sense. It could be two on, two off as Billy suggest or all sorts of interesting options. This is football, they only play one game a week - I'm sure they could work this out...

Honestly, if you are flying a chartered flight - London to NYC isn't much different than say Seattle to Miami.

Fans there aren't going to see a watered down version of the NFL anymore than you do. NFL Europe didn't work, but how many non-NFL pro leagues have worked over here? Guess we can blame American fans for not fully supporting the USFL, XFL, etc.

You also can't look at a London team as isolated as each of you are. This could be a first step, imagine a 4 team division based in Europe. The NFL is a big business with a limited upside now in a fairly saturated US market - it only makes sense to start looking overseas.

Gotta think big, speaking of which - how's than NFL team in LA looking?


I think we will see a 40 team NFL with 2 teams in LA, and only have to have an expansion draft for 4 teams, before long.

1. The Rams and Raiders will be moved back to LA. Jax is all but designated to be the London team already.

2. We could gain 4 teams by having the CFL contract down to 4 teams and adopt NFL rules. They should be competitive rather quickly without having them included in the expansion draft.

3.Expand by adding a new team in Mexico City, Germany[was the best supporter of NFL Europe] (either or both Frankfort or Berlin), Paris, and either or neither(if we have 2 teams in Germany) Madrid or Athens.

This would create a 4 team Europe Division and a 4 team Canada Division. Mexico City would be placed in either the AFC or NFC west and the whole league would have to be realigned to accommodate this.

And St. Louis will become the new bargaining chip for teams wanting a new stadium.


October 14th, 2013, 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
njroar wrote:
But there's bigger issues than just the customer base and logistics Pablo. First is Salary. There $$ would be worth less there (now) by almost half, and then taxes are even higher. You think athletes don't look at that when deciding where to play? Lebron chose Miami over New York based on the the tax rate. Having to pay 12 million in taxes in comparison to florida is a big deal. And while be worth it for some to choose a NY market for advertising purposes, trust me I've personally spoken to a few that say it's a big part of why they turn down certain deals. The fans always say well it's gotta be the ownerships or the coach, but $$ does play a big deal into it.

The highest rate for England is currently 45%, plus there are many more deductions that would come out, pushing it even higher. Add in the currency difference and the only players that will find that appealing will be the lower tier of players. Unless they suddenly gave EU teams a completely different salary cap, it would be hard to entice the top free agents there.


I'm not saying there would be a few challenges. If taxes were such a big factor for these high priced athletes you would think teams in Florida and Texas would dominate FA, but they don't. If you have to put in a system that evens out the contracts from an individual tax standpoint, so be it. I'm sure the increased revenues would far outweigh any additional tax expenses for the league anyway.

The exchange rate is a non-factor, it works both ways. Right now $1 = .63 pound. So if someone is making a cool $1M here they make 630K pounds in England and if they exchange that back into dollars they have $1M. (Actually, rich athletes could probably take advantage of exchange rates with the proper advisors).

So the league has to adjust a couple of factors for non-US teams - big deal. Seems to work in every other major US sport (baseball, basketball and hockey) in addition to a host of non-US professional sports that cross into multiple countries. I'm surprised tennis and golf players would travel overseas given all the tax hits they must take.

The NFL is the biggest league in the world (I believe the English Premier League is #2), I'm sure they can work through these minor issues and probably already have.

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October 14th, 2013, 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
My issue is the level of competition a European team would display between home and away. Look how hard it is for an east coast team to win on the west coast and vise versa. The home team has an astounding rate of victory in those games. Could you imagine trying to adjust to a 6 hour difference in time zone? We wouldn't be talking injury reports in Europe, we'd be talking jet lag reports. Right now when we send 2 teams over they both share the disadvantage, but if one team was there permanently I truly believe they would come out of the gate as a6-10 to 10-6 team...and remain that way forever. They would dominate the schedule at home and lose most of their away games. These guys are professional athletes and fine tuned machines, but I think expecting them to overcome that ( especially for visiting teams) is unrealistic. I don't know a single person who can travel to the other side of the globe and not experience some sort of jet lag symptoms, be it exhaustion, disorientation, nausea, ect. East coast teams could probably overcome it, but teams like Oakland wouldn't stand a chance even if the London team was horrible. At least that's my opinion on the matter.

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October 14th, 2013, 5:30 pm
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
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I'm not saying there would be a few challenges. If taxes were such a big factor for these high priced athletes you would think teams in Florida and Texas would dominate FA, but they don't. If you have to put in a system that evens out the contracts from an individual tax standpoint, so be it. I'm sure the increased revenues would far outweigh any additional tax expenses for the league anyway.


Actually I just looked it up, you pay taxes for the city you're playing in... So you pay your home rate, and the town rate (if higher) when you play there. For the NFL teams that play in Europe, it's effectively a double tax for some, since the home state doesn't waive the tax rate for another country, only another state.

Also, in order for them to avoid paying taxes twice, they'd have to become citizens over there, but because of the immigration laws, most of the misdemeanor offenses that a lot of players have won't allow them to immigrate there. So they'll be taxed as non-resident athlete and still have home taxes here.

Forbes explained it better here : http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitt ... -athletes/

I know the scouting process is doing a better job of looking for red flags, but we don't have access to minor records here, but they'd be open for immigration purposes. It would really handcuff any franchises since the teams over here won't ever deal with those issues. If it were the Lions, you'd have to erase at least half of our roster right off the bat.

Can it happen? Of course, but will it? Not if profit is what the owner is interested in.


October 14th, 2013, 9:00 pm
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
The player tax thing would be sorted by negotiating an exemption. No way the UK govt allows that to stand in the way of a business establishing in the UK that would bring in loads of non-player tax revenue - that'd just be cutting off its nose to spite its face.

Time differences could be dealt with - something like 4 games in the US for the London team, last game a Thursday nighter. Next game a Sunday game in London. 4 games in London - every team that plays there has it's previous game on a Thursday and its bye the week after the game. Bye week for the London team. 4 games in the US, last game a Thursday nighter. Next game a Sunday game in London. 4 more games in London - every team that plays there has it's previous game on a Thursday and its bye the week after the game.

To me the biggest issue would be the fan base. Following the NFL over here takes some commitment - you follow a sport that takes place 5 timezones away, is not shown on free to air TV (my Lions game pass subscription is about $175 a year - on top of that Sky Sports is around $20 a month), isn't covered on normal new or sports broadcasts, won't be discussed at the water cooler because you're the only fan at your workplace etc. There aren't many casual NFL fans in Europe. Most fans are big fans of 1 team - and they won't be switching allegiance to a London based team. If you start up a team in London, it instantly becomes my second favourite team but the Lions will always be the team I follow.

The question would be whether the hard core NFL fanbase that comes to London from all over Europe, just glad of the opportunity to watch a game live, and sells out two games a year, could sell out 8. And whether the presence of a team could start to grow a casual fanbase and convert some of that casual fanbase into hardcore followers of the team.


October 15th, 2013, 2:38 am
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
regularjoe12 wrote:
My issue is the level of competition a European team would display between home and away. Look how hard it is for an east coast team to win on the west coast and vise versa. The home team has an astounding rate of victory in those games. Could you imagine trying to adjust to a 6 hour difference in time zone? We wouldn't be talking injury reports in Europe, we'd be talking jet lag reports. Right now when we send 2 teams over they both share the disadvantage, but if one team was there permanently I truly believe they would come out of the gate as a6-10 to 10-6 team...and remain that way forever. They would dominate the schedule at home and lose most of their away games. These guys are professional athletes and fine tuned machines, but I think expecting them to overcome that ( especially for visiting teams) is unrealistic. I don't know a single person who can travel to the other side of the globe and not experience some sort of jet lag symptoms, be it exhaustion, disorientation, nausea, ect. East coast teams could probably overcome it, but teams like Oakland wouldn't stand a chance even if the London team was horrible. At least that's my opinion on the matter.


I don't remember experiencing jet lag when I flew to Germany when I was in the Army.


October 15th, 2013, 8:13 am
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
Um, wasn't this a thread about Josh Freeman??? :shock: :?

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October 15th, 2013, 9:03 am
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
TheRealWags wrote:
Um, wasn't this a thread about Josh Freeman??? :shock: :?


deal with it this conversation was much more interesting than Josh Freeman


October 15th, 2013, 9:07 am
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
m2karateman wrote:
Now the real question.....how soon do the Vikes put Ponder on the market, and what will his return be?

With Freeman only getting a deal that will pay him for the remainder of this season, I have to think the Vikings keep Ponder and see if Freeman is their guy. But it's always possible that another team will be interested in Ponder if their QB situation gets shaken up. Perhaps the Texans may be interested? Buffalo? Cleveland?


buffalo has manuel and thad lewis is probably better than josh freeman right now and worth developing


October 15th, 2013, 9:09 am
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
TheRealWags wrote:
Um, wasn't this a thread about Josh Freeman??? :shock: :?


You believe in evolution, right? It evolved. LOL


October 15th, 2013, 9:22 am
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
He he - maybe worth splitting the thread, Wags? The possibility of an NFL team in London is an interesting one - at least for me :)


October 15th, 2013, 10:02 am
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
Is it possible for Freeman to sue the Bucs for the leaks? It seems to me that he went from being a starter to the scrap heap in a hurry and owing him $6mil is a great way to finish him off if you can't trade him. Freeman played halfway decent last nyear, then they go mout and sign players that I wanted badly and the entire team turns to poop.


October 19th, 2013, 7:19 pm
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
BillySims wrote:
I don't remember experiencing jet lag when I flew to Germany when I was in the Army.


Just flew into heathrow and then to Johannesburg SA and that was 2 horrendous flights.

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October 19th, 2013, 7:23 pm
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
Freeman looked BAD yesterday. Think that's a bit too much to expect for anyone not named Favre.

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October 22nd, 2013, 12:42 pm
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Post Re: Freeman a free man
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Freeman looked BAD yesterday. Think that's a bit too much to expect for anyone not named Favre.


That ringing bell in the background is for Leslie Frazier. Starting Freeman ahead of Ponder after Freeman barely has time to learn a dozen plays was a FOOLISH move, particularly when facing a struggling team on Monday Night Football. It is almost as if Frazier is begging to be fired.

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October 23rd, 2013, 10:40 am
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