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 Obamacare is here to stay. 
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
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So let's watch our teams wear the pink in October, and appreciate the fact that more women are going to have access to preventative medicine. :cheers:


i d like to hear how you think its possible to "prevent" breast cancer


October 17th, 2013, 12:18 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Competition always drives down costs. Entrepreneurs figure out ways to do more for less. It's the entire basis of our economy.

I don't think Obamacare creates a meaningful amount of price competition. A handful of insurance companies negotiating on your behalf is much less effective than millions of individuals doing their own negotiations.

It's really not complex, there's a very easy solution, but no one wants to go there:

<$5000 people pay themselves
$5000-$250,000 insurance pays
$250k+ government pays

Anyway, Obamacare is really small potatoes. I've been doing more reading lately into Medicare, and how hopelessly insolvent it is. We're going to need to slash benefits dramatically, or this country really will be bankrupted.


October 17th, 2013, 5:40 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
m2karateman wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
njroar wrote:
But it is a socialist program. If it weren't, the failure to purchase wouldn't be in the form of a tax lien. This isn't a free market approach, because in the free market, if you don't like it you can opt out without penalty. The forcing people to pay is a tax, plain and simple. Regardless if for the first time in our nation's history, we're forcing people to pay for something in the private sector. There in now an entire layer of government on top of a free market system that won't work to improve anything. It's only going to bring standards lower.
Are you buying health insurance from a private corporation or from the public government? Now, if it were a single-payer program with the government being the only option, THAT would be Socialism.
Is the government currently involved in the heathcare program in the United States? Has the US government passed any form of legislation that forces any entity to have a certain form of health care?

You know that answer. That, my friend, is a form of Socialism.
Was the Govt involved in healthcare prior to PPACA? Yes, by having rules and regulations the medical and health insurance industry have to abide to. The PPACA does more of the same, it has its rules and regulations that the HI industry must abide to.

FWIW, here's what the Socialist Party has to say about the 'socialist' ObamaCare:
Quote:
Unfortunately, the bill recently passed by the House of Representatives, The Affordable Healthcare for America Act (HR 3962), and the proposals being considered by the Senate will not provide the relief Americans so desperately need. Instead, these reforms were shaped and, in some cases, authored by the very same private interests who have spent decades collecting massive profits by restricting access to care. As a presidential candidate, Barack Obama sensed the growing public anger about healthcare and scored many popularity points for promising “universal healthcare coverage.” Once in office, after taking millions from the healthcare lobby, his rhetoric shifted to the neoliberal promise of “choice and competition” in healthcare.

The primary problem with HR 3962 and the Senate proposals is that all of the changes they propose are made within a for-profit system. The House Bill strips the insurance companies of the right to deny coverage based on a pre-existing condition. Yet, it de-links the public option from Medicare reimbursement rates, thereby surrendering pricing to the private sector. The Bill removes the anti-trust exemption enjoyed by private insurers. However, it simultaneously mandates that all Americans carry some form of health insurance, thereby herding millions into low-coverage high-fee private plans. Each step in a positive direction is coupled with a restructuring that will enrich private insurance companies and pharmaceutical makers.

http://socialistparty-usa.org/statements/no3962.html
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Socialist Party USA Presidential Candidate Stewart Alexander condemned the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold the provisions of the President Obama’s Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Calling it a “corporate restructuring of the healthcare system in America,” Alexander pointed to the many inequities that are built into to the new system. He highlighted the need for a fully socialized healthcare system that guarantees access to high quality healthcare as a human right.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2012/0 ... 716571.php

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October 17th, 2013, 9:40 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
The Legend wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
The Legend wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
Any country that is stupid enough to vote for a communist prick like Obama, doesn't deserve the freedom and liberty they had before his arrival.
As someone with family members born and raised in an actual Communist Country, your repeated claims of 'Socialism' and 'Communism' in today's US Politics rings rather hollow and shows your lack of education as well as your penchant for rhetoric.
i think he s talking more about his opinion on obama's politics rather than saying that the United States is currently communist. many very well educated and successful people agree with him.
While that may be, those opinions show ignorance. No matter which way you put it, neither Obama nor 'ObamaCare' are Communist or Socialist in any manner. By using those terms incorrectly, it invalidates any opinion on either subject.

Put it this way, if we're discussing the weather and I tell you the sky is pink & yellow checkerboard w/unicorns for clouds, are you going to take any of my following statements seriously? I highly doubt it.
so if someone has a difft opinion than you - it invalidates that person's opinion?
Care to show me where I said that? Everyone's entitle to their opinion, however when they attempt to pass that opinion off as fact is where their opinion would be invalidated. So, they would be invalidating their own opinon.
The Legend wrote:
a lot of people think obama's policies are socialist, a short throw from socialism or part of the path towards socialism. its an opinion not a fact. you dont think obama's opinions are representative of socialism but maybe you admit they dont exactly promote capitalism? sly belief's are far right you are somewhere left of the middle, in his perspective from the far right things left of the middle looks socialist. to the person looking from the middle it might not. i
How does ObamaCare not promote Capitalism? Heck, the HI industry wrote most of the law. The mandate people are so upset about are to purchase insurance from private corporations.

Which begs another question: When did the Republican party become the party of NO personal responsibility? Before the PPACA, those who had HI had to pay for those who didn't. Now (most) everyone should be paying for their own insurance, thus paying their own way, thus having personal responsibility.

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October 17th, 2013, 9:51 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
wags - you said that sly's opinion was invalidated bc you dont believe there is an element of socialism in obama's politics or obamacare. you can read, heck you linked it, wrote it, denied it, etc but you did and its there above

wags - the individual mandate is not the problem. some people are upset about it but really its no difft than your parents asking you to eat your vegetables. there is nothing wrong with more people purchasing there own health insurance. the problem is that good concept (individual mandate) is serving as a mask to shuttle utter amounts of bs into the system. obamacare is a massive increease in medicaid and therefore taxation, even those not qualifying for medicaid will get subsidies to pay for insurance, it tilts the field with mandates against private insurance providers and in favor of govt programs and govt control. the goal should not be towards having more and more people on medicaid? should it? should there be more and more people on welfare and disability, etc? will there be competitition when the next legislation going out continues to slant more and more towards govt plans and pushes the insurnace companies further further out. give someone an inch and they will take a mile, the govt is taking much more than an inch here. is this a single payer system? no, not yet but its getting closer and closer and when the govt tilts the playing field into its own favor as it is with this it is abusing its power


October 17th, 2013, 11:27 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
The Legend wrote:
wags - you said that sly's opinion was invalidated bc you dont believe there is an element of socialism in obama's politics or obamacare. you can read, heck you linked it, wrote it, denied it, etc but you did and its there above
From above:
Quote:
No matter which way you put it, neither Obama nor 'ObamaCare' are Communist or Socialist in any manner. By using those terms incorrectly, it invalidates any opinion on either subject.

Everyone's entitle to their opinion, however when they attempt to pass that opinion off as fact is where their opinion would be invalidated
Which is exactly what Sly is doing, using the terms incorrectly and passing his opinion as a state of fact.
Hell, Sly knows it he does it on purpose (which actually could make him a troll...)

The Legend wrote:
wags - the individual mandate is not the problem. some people are upset about it but really its no difft than your parents asking you to eat your vegetables. there is nothing wrong with more people purchasing there own health insurance. the problem is that good concept (individual mandate) is serving as a mask to shuttle utter amounts of bs into the system. obamacare is a massive increease in medicaid and therefore taxation, even those not qualifying for medicaid will get subsidies to pay for insurance, it tilts the field with mandates against private insurance providers and in favor of govt programs and govt control. the goal should not be towards having more and more people on medicaid? should it? should there be more and more people on welfare and disability, etc? will there be competitition when the next legislation going out continues to slant more and more towards govt plans and pushes the insurnace companies further further out. give someone an inch and they will take a mile, the govt is taking much more than an inch here. is this a single payer system? no, not yet but its getting closer and closer and when the govt tilts the playing field into its own favor as it is with this it is abusing its power
Please explain how ObamaCare is a "massive increease [sic] in medicaid" when SCOTUS struck down the part where States were required to expand Medicaid?

Also, quick question: What is your opinion of a potential 'Govt option' (think what Military and Congress has) that could be used as competition for all private insurance plans?

To me, it sounds as though it would be somewhere in between what ObamaCare and Single-Payer is. At this point, I'm not sure I have enough info myself to make an informed opinion on it.

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October 17th, 2013, 12:44 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Sanjay Gupta wrote:
Obamacare's coverage gap: The poor caught in between
By Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN
updated 6:42 AM EDT, Fri October 4, 2013

(CNN) -- I met a woman named Yvonne in Greenville, South Carolina, where the CNN Express was reporting on the rollout of Obamacare. Yvonne had a big smile and was very excited -- you couldn't miss her.

I first noticed her standing in line, waiting patiently to ask a few questions about health care. Most of the questions I had been asked up until that time revolved around the logistics of signing up, whether they could pick a particular doctor and how much all this was going to cost.

Yvonne, who didn't give her last name, started by telling me that she had been able to get off Medicaid in the past year. Before that, she had been living in her car, intermittently staying with friends. Now she has a place to live, and she's excited about the prospect of finally being able to get private health care insurance for the first time in her life.Yvonne, 35, told me she works part-time as a hairstylist assistant. She said she makes $9 an hour, which at 20 hours a week works out to about $9,360 a year. She is still impoverished, but considers herself lucky because she's never had a major illness.

As we spoke about South Carolina's sign-up process, I realized I was explaining some unwelcome news: Yvonne is not eligible for any assistance toward buying health insurance.

Let me try to explain: In a state that has chosen not to expand Medicaid, Yvonne is in the staggering position of now making too much money to qualify for Medicaid, and too little to obtain subsidies through the Affordable Care Act.

This wasn't how it was supposed to go down for Yvonne and others like her all over the country. When you imagine the people likely to benefit the most from the Affordable Care Act, you probably think of someone just like her.

By obtaining a real job with enough income, Yvonne has disqualified herself from her state's Medicaid program. But in order to qualify for subsidies in South Carolina, she needs to get above the poverty line, and she is not quite there. Yvonne and an estimated 7 million others now find themselves in a coverage gap.

The tax subsidies available through the health exchanges were intended to make private insurance coverage affordable for those between the poverty line and four times as much -- people who now shoulder the responsibility, by law, of purchasing their own coverage.

Last year, in its landmark ruling that left most of the ACA in place, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Medicaid expansion is optional for states. South Carolina, and 25 other states, turned it down. As a result, a big swath of the uninsured will stay that way when new coverage options kick in January 1.

I asked Kentucky Senate hopeful Matt Bevin, a Republican, who was against the expansion in his state, about this. Democratic Gov. Steve Beshear has been a proponent of the law, and Kentucky has expanded Medicaid to cover anyone making up to 138% of the poverty line. When I described Yvonne's situation to Bevin, he was sympathetic but immediately replied, "Where is the money going to come from?"

His is a common sentiment among leaders of states that have refused Medicaid dollars from the federal government. For the time being, the money comes from the federal government. In the states that accepted Medicaid expansion, the federal government will pick up 100% of the tab for four years. For the next three years, it will pay for slightly less. Beyond 2020 it will cover 90% of the cost.

The man who oversees the health insurance expansion in Maryland, Dr Joshua Sharfstein, was stunned that so many states turned the money down. According to the analysis in Maryland, the economic benefits of Medicaid expansion would be in the billions.

As I walked with him, I asked if he could give a single reason -- medically or financially -- for a state not to accept the Medicaid dollars. He thought about it for a moment, and said "none."

"This is just politics," he added.

Yvonne doesn't have many options. She can't get subsidies, Medicaid or health insurance. One small solace is that she won't be forced to pay any tax penalty for not having insurance.

"Oh well, I guess that is good," Yvonne replied when I told her.

She had worked so hard to come off Medicaid, but asked me at the end of the day for a list of states where she might move to get back on the Medicaid program once again.

The opinions expressed in this article are solely those of Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/health/ob ... index.html
Obviously anecdotal, but these people and situations do exist. IMO what needs to happen now, is for our elected representatives to sit down and figure out how to change, modify, improve, etc the PPACA in order to make it work as thoroughly and successfully as possible.

Just imagine where we could be if half of the energy and effort that was spent trying to defund & repeal the PPACA was spent on trying to make the needed modifications to it. It appears as though we have a group of peeps that would rather biatch and complain, instead of trying to fix and improve.

As an aside, something I've often wondered is what happened to the Repubs 'Repeal and Replace'? In fact, was there ever a 'Replace' offered?

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October 17th, 2013, 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
right so half the states accepted the medicaid expansion and half didnt but most likely will at some point. that is still a MASSIVE expansion of medicaid.


October 17th, 2013, 5:57 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
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Please explain how ObamaCare is a "massive increease [sic] in medicaid" when SCOTUS struck down the part where States were required to expand Medicaid?


even though not all the states accepted it, about half did and those states have all massively expanded medicaid. thats a huge expansion.

Quote:
Also, quick question: What is your opinion of a potential 'Govt option' (think what Military and Congress has) that could be used as competition for all private insurance plans?


I dont know enough of what congress has but military coverage such as provided in VA hospitals in my opinion is below the standard of care and isnt good coverage regardless of how much costs are passed down to the patient (i believe it is essentially fully covered). The care is just of lower quality. Other forms of govt care such as for example Cook County Hospital in Chicago are disasters, many magnitudes worse than the VA. i have no confidence in trying to cover an even larger population through govt run systems.

The govt isnt very good at running things, they dont need to compete with quality bc they can control the rules, costs, increase taxes, borrow more to fund their programs etc in other ways without punishment.


October 17th, 2013, 6:31 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
The Legend wrote:
Quote:
Please explain how ObamaCare is a "massive increease [sic] in medicaid" when SCOTUS struck down the part where States were required to expand Medicaid?


even though not all the states accepted it, about half did and those states have all massively expanded medicaid. thats a huge expansion.

Quote:
Also, quick question: What is your opinion of a potential 'Govt option' (think what Military and Congress has) that could be used as competition for all private insurance plans?


I dont know enough of what congress has but military coverage such as provided in VA hospitals in my opinion is below the standard of care and isnt good coverage regardless of how much costs are passed down to the patient (i believe it is essentially fully covered). The care is just of lower quality. Other forms of govt care such as for example Cook County Hospital in Chicago are disasters, many magnitudes worse than the VA. i have no confidence in trying to cover an even larger population through govt run systems.

The govt isnt very good at running things, they dont need to compete with quality bc they can control the rules, costs, increase taxes, borrow more to fund their programs etc in other ways without punishment.


I'm a vet and get a disability check each month and I refuse to use the VA clinics. The doctors are low quality, the service is slow and subpar. I'd rather go to a hospital and pay out of pocket (and have) then go through the VA system. The places are filthy, and there's more malpractice violations than normal hospitals. There is a very high rate of medical negligence, but because it's the government, they're kept out of the public record, so you won't see all the stories in the newspapers. The very reason I was discharged was due to negligence and misdiagnosis which set me back financially since I had to wait to see a non-military doctor and pay out of pocket and then wait three years for my claim to go through.

If that's the kind of service you'd be happy with, then support a govt. option. I never will.


October 17th, 2013, 8:27 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
How can you support the mandate, but oppose medicaid expansion and other subsidies?

You can't force people to buy something they can't afford.


October 18th, 2013, 9:45 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Blueskies wrote:
How can you support the mandate, but oppose medicaid expansion and other subsidies?

You can't force people to buy something they can't afford.


i dont necessarily support the mandate as much as im okay with the concept of more people having health insurance. i think thats a good concept but i dont think it works taking into account everything else that comes with it.


October 18th, 2013, 11:28 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
njroar wrote:
If that's the kind of service you'd be happy with, then support a govt. option. I never will.


Most of the folks who want a gov't option have not seen one in action. Thanks for sharing njroar.

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October 18th, 2013, 11:50 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Pablo wrote:
njroar wrote:
If that's the kind of service you'd be happy with, then support a govt. option. I never will.


Most of the folks who want a gov't option have not seen one in action. Thanks for sharing njroar.


Sure, but no politician has yet (as far as I know) properly laid out and explained the true free market alternative model.

Our current health care system is broken, and people know this. Many will take a single-payer system over what we have now, and as healthcare premiums continue to skyrocket, more will push for single-payer.


October 18th, 2013, 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Allow me to rephrase the question: "What are the thoughts of having a govt option available as competition to private insurance companies in an attempt to keep costs down?"

On the surface, my thoughts were to create a replacement for the existing Medicare & Medicaid programs. (Why have two programs that do basically the same thing, help cover healthcare costs?) Then to expand that program to allow (not require) anyone who wants, to participate. This program would have to follow the same rules and regulations as the private industry.

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October 18th, 2013, 1:30 pm
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