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 Obamacare is here to stay. 
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Modmin Dude
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
As for the people are about to die comment, there is a Payment Advisory Board consisting of 15 members who will determine which medical procedures are covered and which ones are not. If that isn't a "Death Panel", I don't know what is. It's in the Obamacare law if you wish to search through all 2000 pages or so. I've seen it, but it's obvious that you're too lazy to read through the entire thing, kinda like Nancy Pelosi.

Remember that you've got to pass the bill to find out what's in it? LOL
Ah yes, the "Death Panel" talking point. Just curious what you call the peeps at the Insurance company that get paid to deny claims, are they ‘death panels’ too? Or would that just be ‘doing business’?

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October 24th, 2013, 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
TheRealWags wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote that socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

How does THAT definition differ from the one I provided? You're reaching at straws, Wags. You're reaching at straws.
Neither Websters or Oxford mentioned this:
Quote:
regulation, law, executive fiat, corruption, intimidation, extortion, bribery, kickbacks, paybacks, and special interest favoritism
Perhaps because these are not solely related to any one particular economic system, but are results of being a human.


This is where our differences lie. My belief is that the great human experiment, the United States of America, can succeed where others have failed outweighs the failed experiments of human history where government control has failed horribly. Name one instance where government control has led to efficiency, productivity, and profitability. You can't.

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October 24th, 2013, 1:22 pm
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Modmin Dude
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
Since I now work midnights, I'm, gonna go to bed soon, but I have to ask Wags a question first. What part of my previous posts about employers not hiring workers or cutting current employee's hours is factually incorrect? You can not honestly answer this question, so you will avoid it at all costs.
I'm not doubting that an employer might not hire more people or cut hours. What I am doubting is that they are required to do this. As I stated, its likely a convenient excuse. (See point #4 below)
slybri19 wrote:
What aspect of Obamacare actually works at this point? The answer is that nothing does, but that won't prevent you from spinning like a top.
To name a couple:
FoxNews wrote:
1. ACA allows young Americans to stay on their parents’ insurance plans

Because of ObamaCare, which allows kids to stay on their parents insurance plans until age 26, 3.4 million young Americans now have coverage.

The percentage of uninsured young people (ages 19 to 25) fell accordingly, from 48% in 2010 to 21% in 2012.

According to polling, three-in-four Americans support this part of the Affordable Care Act including, yes, over two-thirds of Republicans.

2. ACA bans insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions

Another aspect of ObamaCare that has already taken effect is the ban on insurance companies denying coverage to patients based on pre-existing conditions.

That means an end to insurance company horror stories like four-month-old Alex Lange being denied health insurance because he was too chubby.

This is why the conservative allegation about death panels is so ironic; while the actual ACA law does not contain death panels or anything remotely like them, the fact is that prior to ObamaCare, insurance companies were effectively operating like death panels in denying life-saving coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition and by applying life-time spending caps on coverage.

The ban on pre-existing condition limits, which will apply to every single American by 2014, is supported by 83% of Americans.

3. ACA offers tax credits to small businesses to buy insurance

The Affordable Care Act expands tax credits to help small businesses provide health insurance to their workers. Companies with fewer than 50 employees do not have to provide insurance, but even for these businesses, ObamaCare will make it easier and cheaper if they choose to do so.

According to polling, 88% of Americans think these small business tax credits are great, including — wait for it ... yes, 83% of Republicans. That’s right, over eight-in-ten Republicans support the provision of ObamaCare that helps small businesses afford and expand their health insurance offerings to employees.

4. ACA requires companies with more than 50 employees to provide health insurance

Over 96% of companies with more than 50 employees already provide health insurance to their employees. And contrary to Republicans claiming otherwise, studies show the vast majority of those employers do not plan to drop or reduce that coverage because of ObamaCare.

Also, there is no evidence that ObamaCare has led to companies slashing full-time workers. In fact, since ObamaCare passed in March 2010, over 90% of the gain in employment has been full-time positions.

Still, we know that companies that can afford to provide health insurance to their workers and yet fail to do so off-set the costs of care onto the rest of us — whether the cost of emergency room treatment that gets passed on to other consumers, or Medicaid coverage that we pay for as taxpayers.

In Florida alone, more than 50,000 workers at companies like McDonald’s and Burger King are on the state’s Medicaid rolls. Especially with tax credits available to small businesses, there is no excuse for companies to pass the buck. And 75% of Americanssupport this element of ObamaCare.

5. ACA provides subsidies to help individuals afford coverage

Many of the 45 million Americans who lack health insurance simply don’t have enough money to afford coverage. ObamaCare will lower the cost of premiums but also provide subsidies to help low- and middle-income Americans purchase insurance.

Americans who earn $45,000 per year (about 400% of the federal poverty level) will qualify for some form of subsidy. The amount of the subsidy will be based on income as well as the cost of health coverage in a particular state but, for instance, according to a subsidy calculator created by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a 27-year-old living in Houston, Texas, who earns just $15,000 a year could sign-up for a mid-level plan for about $300 per year with the help of subsidies. Without subsidies, that plan would cost $2,400 per year.

The few Americans who think subsidizing care is a bad idea should, again, note that we already subsidize health care to a far greater degree in the form of Medicaid and also when the uninsured rely on free emergency room care and pass those astronomical costs on to the rest of us. But most Americans — 76% to be exact — support the individual subsidy. That includes 61% of Republicans.

There’s even more aspects of ObamaCare that the American people already support — including the employer mandate, the increased Medicare payroll tax on higher-income Americans and the expansion of Medicaid.

And then, starting October 1, here’s one more:

6. State-based health insurance exchanges

Americans of all political stripes like choice and competition, which is precisely what the ObamaCare health insurance exchanges will create. So it’s no wonder that 80% of Americans — including 72% of Republicans — support the health insurance exchange program in ObamaCare. And that’s even before the exchanges have taken effect!

Plus, a new report shows that health insurance premiums will be even lower under ObamaCare than originally projected.

Personally, as someone who pays through the nose for individual insurance in New York State — a state where, historically, few individual insurance options have even been available — I can’t wait to enroll in ObamaCare and see my premiums plummet, as they are expected to by at least 50%.

Again, all this is why Republicans are in such a desperate rush to try and defund ObamaCare before October 1 — even if it means holding our economy hostage and even if most voters, including Republicans, oppose the repeated and wasteful defunding attempts.

After all, the law is already popular when it’s not fully in effect and most people haven’t felt its benefits. We all know what will happen when ObamaCare takes effect — and works!

Republicans who are throwing temper tantrums over sour grapes need to grow up.

Congress passed the Affordable Care Act, President Obama signed it into law and the Supreme Court upheld its constitutionality.

The cost of doing nothing on health care reform was too great and the cost of repeatedly refighting the political battles of the past is obscene. But then again, it makes perfect sense why Republicans refuse to just give up and shut up — because the minute they do, there will be no more distractions from all the good things about ObamaCare.


Sally Kohn is a writer. You can find her online at http://sallykohn.com or on Twitter at http://twitter.com/sallykohn.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/ ... yre-gonna/


PS: Hope you have a good 'nights' sleep. Take care, my friend.

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October 24th, 2013, 1:24 pm
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Modmin Dude
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote that socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

How does THAT definition differ from the one I provided? You're reaching at straws, Wags. You're reaching at straws.
Neither Websters or Oxford mentioned this:
Quote:
regulation, law, executive fiat, corruption, intimidation, extortion, bribery, kickbacks, paybacks, and special interest favoritism
Perhaps because these are not solely related to any one particular economic system, but are results of being a human.


This is where our differences lie. My belief is that the great human experiment, the United States of America, can succeed where others have failed outweighs the failed experiments of human history where government control has failed horribly. Name one instance where government control has led to efficiency, productivity, and profitability. You can't.
Hmm...perhaps we switched gears here as I thought we were discussing the definition of Socialism, not the merits of any particular economic system....

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October 24th, 2013, 1:26 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Ah yes, the "Death Panel" talking point. Just curious what you call the peeps at the Insurance company that get paid to deny claims, are they ‘death panels’ too? Or would that just be ‘doing business’?[/quote]

Yes, they are death panels too. However, You aren't FORCED to join them like Obamacare. Big difference.

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October 24th, 2013, 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
TheRealWags wrote perhaps we switched gears here as I thought we were discussing the definition of Socialism, not the merits of any particular economic system....

With that, it's time to bug out. No need to discuss issues with brainwashed ideological idiots who lack the capacity to see how socialism impacts an economic system. He's just too stupid to talk to.

Later

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October 24th, 2013, 1:38 pm
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Modmin Dude
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
Ah yes, the "Death Panel" talking point. Just curious what you call the peeps at the Insurance company that get paid to deny claims, are they ‘death panels’ too? Or would that just be ‘doing business’?


Yes, they are death panels too. However, You aren't FORCED to join them like Obamacare. Big difference.
You also aren't FORCED to buy ObamaCare. Granted, if you CHOOSE to not participate there are repercussions to that choice, much like most everything in life.
Hey, at least you acknowledged that 'Death Panels' existed prior to PPACA, perhaps some progress is being made after all :wink:

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October 24th, 2013, 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote perhaps we switched gears here as I thought we were discussing the definition of Socialism, not the merits of any particular economic system....

With that, it's time to bug out. No need to discuss issues with brainwashed ideological idiots who lack the capacity to see how socialism impacts an economic system. He's just too stupid to talk to.

Later
Yup, when someone can't tell the difference between the US's Capitalism economy and Socialism I suppose they may be "just too stupid to talk to".

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October 24th, 2013, 1:43 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
[/quote]Yup, when someone can't tell the difference between the US's Capitalism economy and Socialism I suppose they may be "just too stupid to talk to".[/quote]

I just got done walking my 100 pound golden retriever .My guess, is if you even have a dog at all is that it weighs 10 pounds, but whatever.

As for your previous comment, you did advocate for Occupy Wall Street, right? They were anti-capitalistic, right? Did you ever join the Army like I did? Do you even know what Capitalism is? You're a joke.

Ever hear about Fabianism. Read up on it .It might enlighten you.

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October 24th, 2013, 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
[/quote]Yup, when someone can't tell the difference between the US's Capitalism economy and Socialism I suppose they may be "just too stupid to talk to".[/quote]

I just got done walking my 100 pound golden retriever .My guess, is if you even have a dog at all is that it weighs 10 pounds, but whatever.

As for your previous comment, you did advocate for Occupy Wall Street, right? They were anti-capitalistic, right? Did you ever join the Army like I did? Do you even know what Capitalism is? You're a joke.

Ever hear about Fabianism. Read up on it .It might enlighten you.[/quote]

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October 24th, 2013, 2:15 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
RealDoucheBag wrote:
Yup, when someone can't tell the difference between the US's Capitalism economy and Socialism I suppose they may be "just too stupid to talk to".


I just got done walking my 100 pound golden retriever .My guess, is if you even have a dog at all is that it weighs 10 pounds, but whatever.

As for your previous comment, you did advocate for Occupy Wall Street, right? They were anti-capitalistic, right? Did you ever join the Army like I did? Do you even know what Capitalism is? You're a joke.

Ever hear about Fabianism. Read up on it .It might enlighten you.

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October 24th, 2013, 2:18 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
wags, I can give you an example of a company that switched the way it hires due to rising costs of healthcare. In an effort to curb the high cost of H.I. (as my company tries to "eat" as much of that as possible, passing off a relativly low bill to the empoyees compared to our compatition) we have stopped hiring full time employees altogether. We offer it to those who achive success after a year, but let there be no mistake about it, we never used to do this and upper managment flat out told us rising insurance costs are why. we have hired over 30 people this year...not one of them gets a minute over 29 hours.
EDIT TO ADD: we also did the part time hiring as a way to save money on vacation time too. I guess I should be fair and not point to just part of the picutre on the reasoning behind our recent outbreak of part timers.

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Last edited by regularjoe12 on October 24th, 2013, 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



October 24th, 2013, 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
As regularjoe just said, this is rampant. Bash me, abuse me, ridicule me. It will make no differece.

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October 24th, 2013, 2:34 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
RealDoucheBag wrote:
Yup, when someone can't tell the difference between the US's Capitalism economy and Socialism I suppose they may be "just too stupid to talk to".
I just got done walking my 100 pound golden retriever .My guess, is if you even have a dog at all is that it weighs 10 pounds, but whatever.

As for your previous comment, you did advocate for Occupy Wall Street, right? They were anti-capitalistic, right?
LOL @ name calling, stay classy, sly. Guess you didn't like you're own slur turned back on you.

Quote:
#ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to fight back against the richest 1% of people that are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.
Granted I'm sure I'm missing something, but not sure where there is any anti-capitalistic statements there...well, I suppose if you're part of the 1% you might think that way.

Refresh my memory, but isn't the Tea Party also against the bolded parts?
slybri19 wrote:
Did you ever join the Army like I did? Do you even know what Capitalism is? You're a joke.
Army, eh? Explains a bit; you do kinda remind me of my brothers... :P

Served my 4 years in USMC, thank you very much.
slybri19 wrote:
Ever hear about Fabianism. Read up on it .It might enlighten you.
Quick question, why must you always fit someone with a label? Is there a particular reason why you just can't take someone as they are? Why must there always be an agenda with you? Are you really that paranoid??? :paranoid:

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October 24th, 2013, 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
regularjoe12 wrote:
wags, I can give you an example of a company that switched the way it hires due to rising costs of healthcare. In an effort to curb the high cost of H.I. (as my company tries to "eat" as much of that as possible, passing off a relativly low bill to the empoyees compared to our compatition) we have stopped hiring full time employees altogether. We offer it to those who achive success after a year, but let there be no mistake about it, we never used to do this and upper managment flat out told us rising insurance costs are why. we have hired over 30 people this year...not one of them gets a minute over 29 hours.
Where exactly is ObamaCare making them do this? Again, they chose to make a business decision; no different than if they decided update any other part of their compensation package(s) or change their hours of operation.

FactCheck.org wrote:
Claim: 8.2 million Americans can’t find full-time work partly due to Obamacare.
FactCheck.org says: False.


This assertion from the Republican National Committee echoes others conservative claims that the law is hindering part-timers from finding full-time jobs. But the RNC’s 8.2 million figure was the total number in June of part-time workers in the U.S. seeking full-time work — what the Bureau of Labor Statistics calls “part-time for economic reasons” — and there’s no evidence from BLS numbers that the law has had an impact on such workers. There were more in this “part-time for economic reasons” category in March 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was signed into law (9.1 million). The latest figure, from August, is 7.9 million.

The law requires employers with 50 or more full-time employees to provide insurance or pay a fine. (This provision was delayed until 2015.) Full-time is defined as 30 hours per week. These details have fueled Republican claims that the law will cause — or is causing — employers to reduce their employees’ hours to get under the 30-hour/50-employee thresholds. It’s certainly possible that some employers will try to get by with fewer workers, or fewer worker-hours. And some among millions of part-timers seeking full-time work may have had their hours cut. But we can’t say how many that would be, and neither can the RNC.

To be sure, there have been plenty of news reports of employers, particularly those, like retail stores or restaurants, with low-wage employees, saying they’re concerned and uncertain about the impact of the law, and they might cut hours or workers on their payrolls. We can’t predict what companies might do once the employer requirements take effect.

While the BLS numbers don’t show an impact on part-time workers seeking full-time work, there is some anecdotal evidence of employers cutting the hours of part-time workers to get or keep them under a 30-hour-a-week limit. The Washington Post, for instance, wrote about the state of Virginia implementing such a cap on the hours of part-timers, like adjunct faculty at Northern Virginia Community College. And other colleges have instituted such limits, according to press reports. These employers have not indicated in the news reports whether they would be hiring additional workers, or increasing the hours of others, to fill in the gaps.

,” Aug. 2

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/09/obamacare-myths/


Another thing to consider is what levels were included in the existing HI plans. In other words, if they do not meet the minimum requirements, their replacements may cost more.

FactCheck.org wrote:
Let’s start with employer-sponsored insurance. Employer-sponsored premiums did go up slightly due to the law from 2010 to 2011 (a 1 percent to 3 percent increase, according to experts), because of added benefits, such as coverage for dependents up to age 26, free preventive care and an increase in caps on coverage. Overall, premiums for family plans jumped 9 percent that year, with the bulk of that due to higher medical costs, not, as critics claimed, the health care law. Since then, premium growth has been 4 percent on average for 2012 and 2013, modest growth rates historically.
Note that premiums have been going up for years and will continue to do so — with or without the health care law. When Democrats make claims about premiums going down, they’re talking about premiums growing at a lower rate than they would have otherwise

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/09/obamacare-myths/

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October 24th, 2013, 3:07 pm
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