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 Obamacare is here to stay. 
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
regularjoe12 wrote:
EDIT TO ADD: we also did the part time hiring as a way to save money on vacation time too. I guess I should be fair and not point to just part of the picutre on the reasoning behind our recent outbreak of part timers.
Indeed there could be several reasons as to why the Company's hierarchy decided to make these changes and I would venture to say that unless you're part of said hierarchy, you likely wouldn't have access to the facts behind these changes.

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October 24th, 2013, 3:10 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Hey Wags, just woke up and saw your BS. What part of the Constitution allows what you advocated for?

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October 24th, 2013, 3:41 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
Hey Wags, just woke up and saw your BS. What part of the Constitution allows what you advocated for?
Care to explain what exactly you're referring to?

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October 24th, 2013, 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
TheRealWags wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
wags, I can give you an example of a company that switched the way it hires due to rising costs of healthcare. In an effort to curb the high cost of H.I. (as my company tries to "eat" as much of that as possible, passing off a relativly low bill to the empoyees compared to our compatition) we have stopped hiring full time employees altogether. We offer it to those who achive success after a year, but let there be no mistake about it, we never used to do this and upper managment flat out told us rising insurance costs are why. we have hired over 30 people this year...not one of them gets a minute over 29 hours.
Where exactly is ObamaCare making them do this? Again, they chose to make a business decision; no different than if they decided update any other part of their compensation package(s) or change their hours of operation.



Not trying to be a Sly here, but are you not seeing teh connection? or refusing to admit it?

H.I. Costs are rising pretty tramatically. up to 2 years ago, the company PAID for our H.I. in full (I work for a great company) but in the last 2 years we have seen a cost, but this year a pretty steep increase for covereage lesser than the BCBS that we used to have. we never used to hire part timers outside of the co-op kids in highschool...and now the year the mandates start we ONLY hire part timers?

EDIT TO ADD: and this is comming off a year where we made more income than before the bubble bursted!

Common man, please dont make me do the math for you.


Quote:
regularjoe12 wrote:

EDIT TO ADD: we also did the part time hiring as a way to save money on vacation time too. I guess I should be fair and not point to just part of the picutre on the reasoning behind our recent outbreak of part timers.


Indeed there could be several reasons as to why the Company's hierarchy decided to make these changes and I would venture to say that unless you're part of said hierarchy, you likely wouldn't have access to the facts behind these changes.


Actually i do. I my office/workspace is right across the hall from said Heirarchy. The VP is my football buddy, and the CEO is about as much of an open book as I have ever seen in a boss. (genuinly a good caring person, but not affriad to give bad news when it's there). Plus all company descisions like this are voted on by the board. Since every one of our credit union members is also an owner, those board meeting are public access to members...as is the minutes from said meetings.

you can try and find other reasons for our changes if you want...and I belive so far I am being fair and pointing those out as well....but to not see any connection at all? Thats like sayin yer best girlfriend is incapable of lying...you've got the blinders on bro.


Last edited by regularjoe12 on October 24th, 2013, 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



October 24th, 2013, 4:27 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
TheRealWags wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
Hey Wags, just woke up and saw your BS. What part of the Constitution allows what you advocated for?
Care to explain what exactly you're referring to?

Probably the part in the Constitution that states that everyone has a right to health care. Oops, I must have misread that part since I can't find it. Can you find it for me?

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October 24th, 2013, 4:35 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
slybri19 wrote:
With that, it's time to bug out. No need to discuss issues with brainwashed ideological idiots who lack the capacity to see how socialism impacts an economic system. He's just too stupid to talk to.


Ya know, even when the message details themselves might be correct - the message delivery just isn't working. And the Republicans can't seem to figure out why they are slipping out of relevancy right now.

First people have to want to hear you, then they might actually listen. Nobody wants to hear what Republicans have to say anymore and it is because of how it is being said. So sad, As a long time Republican, I gotta say I'm just embarrassed by the general tone of the party and Sly is a rather good reflection of this. In general, I agree with most of the positions - the execution of the party platform is horrible.

Fellow Republicans, you need to understand this before it is too late if it already isn't...

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October 24th, 2013, 4:53 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Wags - Obamacare is making the businesses restructure because of the costs and now it's mandatory to offer insurance to all full time employees. It used to be a bonus to give to employees or certain positions, now everyone is required to have it. Some companies can afford that, others now have to completely restructure how they do business. Yes, there are a few that are just following industry standard because a majority has too, but the majority are changing because they have too, not because they can.

Also go back and reread the definition you posted. What sly posted was directly from those definitions.

I also agree with Pablo. We can argue facts and discuss them without having to insult others. You don't need to disrespect in order to disagree. I agree with wags a lot on these issues, but I can still laugh and discuss other things in complete agreement.


October 24th, 2013, 5:26 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
njroar wrote:
Wags - Obamacare is making the businesses restructure because of the costs and now it's mandatory to offer insurance to all full time employees. It used to be a bonus to give to employees or certain positions, now everyone is required to have it. Some companies can afford that, others now have to completely restructure how they do business. Yes, there are a few that are just following industry standard because a majority has too, but the majority are changing because they have too, not because they can.

Also go back and reread the definition you posted. What sly posted was directly from those definitions.

I also agree with Pablo. We can argue facts and discuss them without having to insult others. You don't need to disrespect in order to disagree. I agree with wags a lot on these issues, but I can still laugh and discuss other things in complete agreement.

Another example of what you are referring to is the food industry. I used to manage an unamed fast food chain for years. It had a lot of full time employees, but only offered H.I. to management staff. Does anyone really think these places are going to start providing insurance to those full time employees? Or do you think they will just cut their hours and hire more part time (and easily replaceable) staff? That's almost 8% of America right there! The same for the retail industry. That's another 5% there. That's about 13% of Americans who (as I understand things) will make too much money to recieve the free government option, but not enough money to really afford H.I. These are people who just barely made enough to live week to week. Now they are going to have to get 2 jobs AND pay for H.I. The jobs will be out there due to the way I see things moving, but damn...what a lifestyle they are going to have to live. :(


As it stands now, I just don't see this program as doing anything other than knocking down the middle and lower classes a peg or two.


October 24th, 2013, 6:19 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Pablo wrote:
slybri19 wrote:
With that, it's time to bug out. No need to discuss issues with brainwashed ideological idiots who lack the capacity to see how socialism impacts an economic system. He's just too stupid to talk to.


Ya know, even when the message details themselves might be correct - the message delivery just isn't working. And the Republicans can't seem to figure out why they are slipping out of relevancy right now.

First people have to want to hear you, then they might actually listen. Nobody wants to hear what Republicans have to say anymore and it is because of how it is being said. So sad, As a long time Republican, I gotta say I'm just embarrassed by the general tone of the party and Sly is a rather good reflection of this. In general, I agree with most of the positions - the execution of the party platform is horrible.

Fellow Republicans, you need to understand this before it is too late if it already isn't...


Pablo, I completely understand where you're coming from, but I can't help myself. On one side, we have the Democrats (Socialists/Communists/Marxists) who want the government to control every aspect of our lives. On the other side, we have the Tea Party, who wants the government to return to it's traditional roots and stay out of our lives. In the middle, we have the Establishment Republicans who stand for nothing except remaining in power. I suppose that you could throw the Blue Dog Democrats in that group, as well, but they have been all but exterminated by the Democratic Party far left extremists.

So, where does this leave us? We've got one side marching us toward bankruptcy and another attempting to put on the brakes. There is no room for compromise, unless you're an Establishment Republican who wants slightly less socialism and is tapping on the brakes every now and then. The biggest economic catastrophe in our nation's history is staring us in the face, yet most people are too blind, stupid, or indifferent to see it.

Oh well. In 5-20 years, we will have a second Civil War. It's just a matter of which straw will break the camel's back. Wonder why Obama wants to take our guns? Because the side opposed to him has most of the guns. Duh. It's a battle that the Democrats/Socialists/Marxists can't or won't win and they know it. So, they're just trying to grab as much free candy at the taxpayer's expense while they can. Wake up, people.

Gotta leave for work (which I'm actually rather fortunate to do in this Obama economy), so later.

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October 24th, 2013, 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
regularjoe12 wrote:
TheRealWags wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
wags, I can give you an example of a company that switched the way it hires due to rising costs of healthcare. In an effort to curb the high cost of H.I. (as my company tries to "eat" as much of that as possible, passing off a relativly low bill to the empoyees compared to our compatition) we have stopped hiring full time employees altogether. We offer it to those who achive success after a year, but let there be no mistake about it, we never used to do this and upper managment flat out told us rising insurance costs are why. we have hired over 30 people this year...not one of them gets a minute over 29 hours.
Where exactly is ObamaCare making them do this? Again, they chose to make a business decision; no different than if they decided update any other part of their compensation package(s) or change their hours of operation.
Not trying to be a Sly here, but are you not seeing teh connection? or refusing to admit it?

H.I. Costs are rising pretty tramatically. up to 2 years ago, the company PAID for our H.I. in full (I work for a great company) but in the last 2 years we have seen a cost, but this year a pretty steep increase for covereage lesser than the BCBS that we used to have. we never used to hire part timers outside of the co-op kids in highschool...and now the year the mandates start we ONLY hire part timers?

EDIT TO ADD: and this is comming off a year where we made more income than before the bubble bursted!

Common man, please dont make me do the math for you.
You very well could be right. Obviously I do not know who you work for and how they run their business. All I'm saying is that just because Company A says they're making changes because of ObamaCare, doesn't mean they're actually doing that. I'm sure we can agree that businesses have multiple paths they can choose to take.

Also, let's not forget that the Employer Mandate doesn't go into effect until 2015. That said, I think they'll likely modify or do away with this provision at some point in the next year.

regularjoe12 wrote:
therealwags wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
EDIT TO ADD: we also did the part time hiring as a way to save money on vacation time too. I guess I should be fair and not point to just part of the picutre on the reasoning behind our recent outbreak of part timers.
Indeed there could be several reasons as to why the Company's hierarchy decided to make these changes and I would venture to say that unless you're part of said hierarchy, you likely wouldn't have access to the facts behind these changes.
Actually i do. I my office/workspace is right across the hall from said Heirarchy. The VP is my football buddy, and the CEO is about as much of an open book as I have ever seen in a boss. (genuinly a good caring person, but not affriad to give bad news when it's there). Plus all company descisions like this are voted on by the board. Since every one of our credit union members is also an owner, those board meeting are public access to members...as is the minutes from said meetings.

you can try and find other reasons for our changes if you want...and I belive so far I am being fair and pointing those out as well....but to not see any connection at all? Thats like sayin yer best girlfriend is incapable of lying...you've got the blinders on bro.
If you think I've got blinders on, then I'm not sure what to say; I have been trying to approach this topic with an open mind and no bias'. Admittedly it is difficult, but I believe I've been rather fair in my responses using the facts as I understand them. I don't recall anywhere that I said ObamaCare is the end all / be all, what I did say and still believe to be accurate is that the pre-ObamaCare system was broken and unsustainable.

Further, I'm trying to say that for most of the law, it is too early to know its effect, either positive or negative.

I also think that we would've been better served by Congress if they would've tried to fix any shortcomings in ObamaCare. Instead, several of them have spent the past few years since the laws passage and confirmation via SCOTUS, trying to repeal and defund it. There was even a time when they said they wanted to replace it, tho I'm still not sure what they were going to replace it with. As I sit on the sidelines watching the political theater in DC, I can't help but imagine how much more robust 'ObamaCare' could be had the time, energy and money spent on the repealing and defunding of it had been spent on strengthening, modifying and fixing it.

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October 25th, 2013, 9:41 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
I will say, from an employers standpoint, Obamacare will have a big impact and already is but to a small degree since it really hasn't launched yet.

Sitting on the management team, there are some types of business that my company will no longer pursue once this goes into place (and we are already starting to adopt this strategy). Pretty much anything that involves lower paid workers (think around $10/hr) we will no longer touch. The increased costs due to Obamacare just chew up the already thin margins in this type of work.

What will be the overall impact of such thinking by companies, not sure, but it will be felt.

Sly, your response was better. I understand your frustration. I love the passion you feel. But if you really want to be heard you just have to massage the message a little bit. Great content with a poor delivery is a waste of your time as the message is lost. Everyone will tune out and no change will ever occur. I want to make sure they hear your message bro.

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October 25th, 2013, 12:32 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Six people enrolled on day one through healthcare.gov

According to the presidents statements in 2008, that leaves only 45,994 uninsured left to go...

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November 1st, 2013, 10:14 am
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
This thing will collapse in a year or two, and then we'll go to single-payer. Perhaps the goal all along.


November 7th, 2013, 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
BTW - I'm so pissed at BO. My flight home from Houston was late because the Prez was in town. Once I finally got home the freeways were completely shut down so I was stuck forever. Way to kill hours and hours of my life Mr. Prez and this wasn't the first time. Remember the incident 3 years ago when you did the same thing to me in LA. Ugh!

And I was in Houston discussing Obamacare and how it is going to impact our business - too much there to discuss. In looking at various outcomes of this plan, we can envision fairly significant increases in healthcare under this plan. For example, what happens when people who haven't had healthcare in some time actually get it? Well, they start going to the doctors for all sorts of stuff that they didn't before (and most of the time it isn't necessary).

Not only that, I found out that the Prez will be killing off my wife's current affordable healthcare plan. You see, most employers cover some of their employees healthcare costs. They also cover some of the children. But not so for the spouse - employers do not want to encourage putting spouses on their HC plan when they probably have one of their own at their own work. As a result, covering a spouse through a comprehensive health plan at work is very expensive.

Since my wife is a stay at home Mom and healthy, it doesn't make sense for me to pay about $10K in annual coverage when she only goes to the doctor for her annual checkup. Instead, we purchase catastrophic coverage through einsurance.com for about $120/month. They cover some minor things, but essentially I'm out of pocket for the first $10K in health costs should something go worng. So I can either pay about $10K for sure and purchase her health ins through work, or I can pay $10K in a worst case health scenario. Pretty easy choice until now.

Under Obamacare, her current plan doesn't meet Obamas new "minimum essential benefits" that every plan must offer and will be eliminated.

There goes affordable health care for my wife that meet our needs fully!!!

And let's not forget your promise that "Americans can definitely keep their coverage" even once your plan has been implemented. Then again, I'm not one to beLIEve any politicians promises - but unfortunately many do.

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November 7th, 2013, 2:08 pm
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Post Re: Obamacare is here to stay.
Pablo wrote:
Sly, your response was better. I understand your frustration. I love the passion you feel. But if you really want to be heard you just have to massage the message a little bit. Great content with a poor delivery is a waste of your time as the message is lost. Everyone will tune out and no change will ever occur. I want to make sure they hear your message bro.


I hear ya, Pablo, but I can't help myself. I'm probably one of the most politically incorrect, in your face, offensive, belligerent, profane, and hostile persons you've ever encountered in your life. I didn't used to be this way though. Many remember me as the mild mannered Lion poster and moderator of two sites who advocated for civil discussion/disagreements on the boards. Not any more. Obama changed that. And he changed me.

The main reason why conservatives/Republicans lose is that they attempt to play by the rules. Democrats/liberals/progressives/communists/socialists have no such restrictions. They lie, bully, intimidate, coerce, commit fraud, waste, and abuse, and whatever else it takes to further their agenda. Meanwhile, they use projection to accuse the other side of doing exactly what they're doing to deflect criticism. Like them, I've read Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals and am using their own techniques against them. Like it or not, it is effective in certain situations/circumstances.

With that said, I am perfectly capable of tailoring my argument/tirade/debate to my audience. I am much better at doing this in person than on the internet where you don't know exactly who your audience is. Keep in mind that more people read this site than actually post, so take that into consideration before deeming that my rants are ineffective.

If nothing else, I want to get across to the people that the Democratic Party is no longer the party of JFK. They have moved so far to the left that they are indistinguishable from the self-proclaimed socialists in Europe. Socialism has failed everywhere it has ever been tried and it will fail here too. Do you want freedom or government control? Your choice.

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November 12th, 2013, 1:51 pm
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