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 UofM vs. MSU 

Who wins - UofM or MSU?
Poll ended at November 4th, 2013, 2:23 pm
Michigan 67%  67%  [ 2 ]
Michigan State 33%  33%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 3

 UofM vs. MSU 
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Rich Rod, destroyed himself with his pourous non existent defense. If he could have figured out how to hire a DC, field a strong defense, and still run that kind of an offense, you'd have well OSU. But now U of M, is in the middle of an overhaul from spread, back to road graders and smash football. Last year they tried to blend their pro program with the spread talent, each year consecutively struggled more than the year before as they made more adjustments. This year you have 3 of 5 OL are freshmen, or new on the line. Just like the Lions, there's no chemistry or experience and so they're pourous. DG does not have the experience after playing 8 games last year, and all of this season. He's doing a Scott Mitchell right now...

It is what it is, and unless Mich could have been like OSU and only needed to replace a coach and not the entire deal, they might still be up there in the rankings. Now we have to stay the course, take our lumps and let you gloat for the time being, but in the end, who OWNS the better record between schools and why? It would take MSU 30 years of winning to tie up or surpass the ownership that has been the truth for YEARS.

So you can keep beating your gums, and flapping your tongues, but in the end, the HISTORICAL records says it all. For what it's worth, you'll still be Green with envy, and have a chip on your shoulder because of your junior status.

Oh and Pablo, it's my understanding that MSU doesn't need a grounds crew because they let their cheer leaders graze on the field... :mrgreen:


I understand what you're saying. But thats what kills me about Michigan. I respect their "tradition" of winning and beating MSU for so many years. I get it, trust me. Thats all UofM fans talk about. But what does the past have to do with "this year". I swear each year someone says, "Who will win between State and UofM?" And I hear several UofM fans say something along the lines of "UofM will because we're the winningest team in history, or because we've done is so many times". Seriously?? Don't know how to break down two teams but can always refer back to history. And NOT ONE UofM fan has ever given credit to MSU for ANYTHING. You can hate them all you want, but give credit to where its due. They are the #1 defense IN THE NCAA. Sure, they havent played Baylor or Alabama. But still, they have an awesome defense. But nooooooo... UofM fans have to say (again, like always) "Wait til next year", or "Wait til we have an offense", or "they havent played anyone". Cant just suck it up and say they are a fierce defense and really does a good job, or how Pat Narduzi is a very intelligent DC. No credit. In a UofM fans eyes, MSU is not or will never be good at any aspect of the game of football. A few years ago, the year after State won (or tied for) the Big Ten Champsionship, a UofM fan, while reading the recruits on signing day on his phone, says to me he has to scroll all the way down and MSU still isnt on the page for any big signings. I was like, didnt they win the Big Ten Championship last year, they must be doing something right. THAT is what changed me from a die hard Michigan fan to a non-fan, their total lack of respect for any other team, especially MSU. Talking to UofM fans last year they seriously thought they had a chance against Alabama. C'mon! Let's be real. No realistic outlook on any game.

So, what you (and every other UofM fan) is saying, is that unless State wins for the next what 30 years against UofM, it doesnt matter whether or not they beat them? Do you really believe that? Do you think the players on the Wolverines are saying "Hey, we lost, but we dont care. We are the winningest team in the history". Do you really believe that?

Im not saying State is a monster of a team to reckon with, by any means. Nor will I go around saying Michigan sucks. Never. And up until State found an actual offense, I was saying that its gonna be super tough against Michigan even though their D isnt good. But State found how to play a little offense and have a very tough D, it won them the game. Who's gonna win next year? I dont know. But i sure as heck am not gonna say "well history says Michigan will win, so probably them". That's a horrible way of looking at it. But I know thats what Wolverine fans are going to say. They dont care about THIS year (regardless of what year we're in), because they always have their recruits to talk about and how they (again) are the winningest team...blah blah blah.

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November 11th, 2013, 4:40 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
kdsberman wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Rich Rod, destroyed himself with his pourous non existent defense. If he could have figured out how to hire a DC, field a strong defense, and still run that kind of an offense, you'd have well OSU. But now U of M, is in the middle of an overhaul from spread, back to road graders and smash football. Last year they tried to blend their pro program with the spread talent, each year consecutively struggled more than the year before as they made more adjustments. This year you have 3 of 5 OL are freshmen, or new on the line. Just like the Lions, there's no chemistry or experience and so they're pourous. DG does not have the experience after playing 8 games last year, and all of this season. He's doing a Scott Mitchell right now...

It is what it is, and unless Mich could have been like OSU and only needed to replace a coach and not the entire deal, they might still be up there in the rankings. Now we have to stay the course, take our lumps and let you gloat for the time being, but in the end, who OWNS the better record between schools and why? It would take MSU 30 years of winning to tie up or surpass the ownership that has been the truth for YEARS.

So you can keep beating your gums, and flapping your tongues, but in the end, the HISTORICAL records says it all. For what it's worth, you'll still be Green with envy, and have a chip on your shoulder because of your junior status.

Oh and Pablo, it's my understanding that MSU doesn't need a grounds crew because they let their cheer leaders graze on the field... :mrgreen:


I understand what you're saying. But thats what kills me about Michigan. I respect their "tradition" of winning and beating MSU for so many years. I get it, trust me. Thats all UofM fans talk about. But what does the past have to do with "this year". I swear each year someone says, "Who will win between State and UofM?" And I hear several UofM fans say something along the lines of "UofM will because we're the winningest team in history, or because we've done is so many times". Seriously?? Don't know how to break down two teams but can always refer back to history. And NOT ONE UofM fan has ever given credit to MSU for ANYTHING. You can hate them all you want, but give credit to where its due. They are the #1 defense IN THE NCAA. Sure, they havent played Baylor or Alabama. But still, they have an awesome defense. But nooooooo... UofM fans have to say (again, like always) "Wait til next year", or "Wait til we have an offense", or "they havent played anyone". Cant just suck it up and say they are a fierce defense and really does a good job, or how Pat Narduzi is a very intelligent DC. No credit. In a UofM fans eyes, MSU is not or will never be good at any aspect of the game of football. A few years ago, the year after State won (or tied for) the Big Ten Champsionship, a UofM fan, while reading the recruits on signing day on his phone, says to me he has to scroll all the way down and MSU still isnt on the page for any big signings. I was like, didnt they win the Big Ten Championship last year, they must be doing something right. THAT is what changed me from a die hard Michigan fan to a non-fan, their total lack of respect for any other team, especially MSU. Talking to UofM fans last year they seriously thought they had a chance against Alabama. C'mon! Let's be real. No realistic outlook on any game.

So, what you (and every other UofM fan) is saying, is that unless State wins for the next what 30 years against UofM, it doesnt matter whether or not they beat them? Do you really believe that? Do you think the players on the Wolverines are saying "Hey, we lost, but we dont care. We are the winningest team in the history". Do you really believe that?

Im not saying State is a monster of a team to reckon with, by any means. Nor will I go around saying Michigan sucks. Never. And up until State found an actual offense, I was saying that its gonna be super tough against Michigan even though their D isnt good. But State found how to play a little offense and have a very tough D, it won them the game. Who's gonna win next year? I dont know. But i sure as heck am not gonna say "well history says Michigan will win, so probably them". That's a horrible way of looking at it. But I know thats what Wolverine fans are going to say. They dont care about THIS year (regardless of what year we're in), because they always have their recruits to talk about and how they (again) are the winningest team...blah blah blah.


This is why MSU is and always will be the little brother. You just can't be happy with a win. You want ever Wolverine fan to come here and blow sunshine up your butt. Get over it and enjoy the wins when you can get them. But, you just want validation from your big brother. Ain't gonna happen.


November 11th, 2013, 6:07 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Talking about historical wins like they mean anything is sad and pathetic, and makes you sound like a Notre Dame fan.


November 11th, 2013, 6:41 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Lol little brother. I know I know, "wait til next year". Maybe by then your big time LT's face and feelings will be healed from the beating he took from Calhoun. But I'll wait til next year, just like I've been doing since Mike Hart said that.

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November 11th, 2013, 9:03 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
kdsberman wrote:
Lol little brother. I know I know, "wait til next year". Maybe by then your big time LT's face and feelings will be healed from the beating he took from Calhoun. But I'll wait til next year, just like I've been doing since Mike Hart said that.


Yeah I know the "wait til next year" thing is getting a little played, here's the thing though, I already can't wait for next year. I look forward to the Spartans playing UofM every year now, because I love the fact Sparty has knocked them down so much over the course of the last 6 years. I already can't wait to go to the Big House and put a hurtin on the next "Heisman" candidate that they have playing QB coming into that game.

Doing with a team that is everything you wish your team could be and I'm loving it right now.


November 11th, 2013, 10:32 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Too funny Blue, and ND fan? Nah, the only reason why the Whining Irish have fans is because they are a Major Catholic University, and they buy all the prime time game spots in order to broadcast, and increase their popularity. In terms of ND I'm amazed how they can continue to play the likes of Air Farce, Navy, and many other sub par schools and because they go undefeated, they are ushered into the BIG game against the likes of Alabama. The hypocrisy is amazing when it comes to them...

In terms of Michigan, the historical win average is all Wolverine fans have as leverage. We've been soundly defeated by a superior Defense 4 out of 5 years. I was really questioning MSU's abilities not because of their team but their offense was suspect until the last few games. I'm glad to see they've pulled it out and are actually gaining momentum. U of M is showing it's freshmen flop, and we are due to get beat badly.

I'm not your typical Wolverine fan, as I don't grind people's face into it because I don't like having my face shoved in it. What you saw above was a retort, but not a very good one. Like Blue said, past wins is like water under the bridge, or listening to people tell stories of the glory days. There's a reason why there's dust on them!

I was actually VERY disappointed that Michigan received a far more valuable bowl game last year than State did. That was HUGE disrespect from NCAA Bowl league officials. MSU was #2 in the Big Ten and they should have gotten the higher game, but it didn't pan out. I don't understand the little brother mentality, I suspect that it's hype solely created to create animosity between the Rivals, and it keeps getting handed down. But to HIS CREDIT, Dantonio has let his team do the talking, and Michigan needs to learn to keep the trap shut.

I will say I can't WAIT for MSU to play OSU in the league championship, and I hope with all my heart that they shut OSU down. I'm so tired of hearing those dreamers talk when all they had to do was bring in a coach, while Michigan had to rebuild from the destruction RR brought in.

IF I had been the AD at Michigan, my order to RR would have been to go out there and get a DC that had a clue. If they could mix Michigans current DC with RR's program, that would have been a dangerous team, but U of M is like the lions, perpetually rebuilding.

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November 12th, 2013, 10:37 am
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
After the Lions defeated the Bears, I went over to a Bears forum to do some reading. What I saw was post after post blaming the refs for the Bears' loss. It was sad; pathetic even. Then I remembered that, in previous years, that's exactly how this board looked. How petty all the posters must've looked.

In the same way, as Michigan fan and alum, I'm not going to cite history in defense of the program. It's just sad. Michigan State has, no question, had the better program over the last 7 years or so, and they'll probably have the better program for at least another 2. I'm big enough to admit this.

That said, do I think Michigan State will ever become nationally relevant? Nope. They don't have the donors, the national recognition, the fan base. Even as bad as Michigan is today, they have a much better chance of winning a national title than Michigan State anytime in the next decade.


November 12th, 2013, 2:58 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Blueskies wrote:
After the Lions defeated the Bears, I went over to a Bears forum to do some reading. What I saw was post after post blaming the refs for the Bears' loss. It was sad; pathetic even. Then I remembered that, in previous years, that's exactly how this board looked. How petty all the posters must've looked.

In the same way, as Michigan fan and alum, I'm not going to cite history in defense of the program. It's just sad. Michigan State has, no question, had the better program over the last 7 years or so, and they'll probably have the better program for at least another 2. I'm big enough to admit this.

That said, do I think Michigan State will ever become nationally relevant? Nope. They don't have the donors, the national recognition, the fan base. Even as bad as Michigan is today, they have a much better chance of winning a national title than Michigan State anytime in the next decade.


I agree with 90% of what is said here. Let's also not forget, MSU is a basketball school first, football second.

I look at this the same way as Suh did against Chicago, he wanted Cutler because he wanted to beat them at their best. Each year State beats Michigan, they look further and further from their best. This year, the game was just awful. I take little pride out of demolishing a proud tradition down on it's luck.

I just hope Michigan can pull out of this tailspin soon. I'd much rather take our chances with a legit top 10 program than continue to beat up on what's coming out of Ann Arbor these days. Somebody please fix the maize and blue, and fast...

BTW - remember how WJB said Michigan would stop MSU this year. And Dom Raiola sucked (having his best year), and Nate sucked (having a solid year until the injury), and Schwartz had to go (having his best coaching year). I could go on, but I miss having him around now that everyone he despised seems to be having a break out year...

Then again, CJ continues to "dog it"...

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November 12th, 2013, 4:00 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Blueskies wrote:
After the Lions defeated the Bears, I went over to a Bears forum to do some reading. What I saw was post after post blaming the refs for the Bears' loss. It was sad; pathetic even. Then I remembered that, in previous years, that's exactly how this board looked. How petty all the posters must've looked.

In the same way, as Michigan fan and alum, I'm not going to cite history in defense of the program. It's just sad. Michigan State has, no question, had the better program over the last 7 years or so, and they'll probably have the better program for at least another 2. I'm big enough to admit this.

That said, do I think Michigan State will ever become nationally relevant? Nope. They don't have the donors, the national recognition, the fan base. Even as bad as Michigan is today, they have a much better chance of winning a national title than Michigan State anytime in the next decade.


Well said. Thank You.

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November 12th, 2013, 4:08 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Blueskies wrote:
That said, do I think Michigan State will ever become nationally relevant? Nope. They don't have the donors, the national recognition, the fan base. Even as bad as Michigan is today, they have a much better chance of winning a national title than Michigan State anytime in the next decade.


I agree with with almost everything you said with the caveat that Michigan will never be nationally relevant either. That time has past and as a national powerhouse they are dead. Not to say they won't compete for Big Ten titles because they will, but the chance of them playing for a national championship are nearly nonexistent. Look at OSU and they are undefeated and they still have to pray that someone loses to allow them to have a shot at the national title.


November 12th, 2013, 6:28 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Hold your horses -- Michigan absolutely could be nationally relevant again. They have the donors (Ross just gave a cool $100M), a broad base of alumni (guys at every major sports/media network), and the name still gets recruits. They're going through a down period, but every major program has (USC, Alabama, Florida State, etc have all had their 40 years in the wilderness, so to speak).

Will Michigan win a national title anytime soon? Probably not. The SEC is just crazy, both for locally-grown talent and their willingness to bend the rules. But after ND made it to the NCG last year, there's no reason to believe that Michigan could never again contend for a title.


November 12th, 2013, 7:02 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Blueskies wrote:
Hold your horses -- Michigan absolutely could be nationally relevant again. They have the donors (Ross just gave a cool $100M), a broad base of alumni (guys at every major sports/media network), and the name still gets recruits. They're going through a down period, but every major program has (USC, Alabama, Florida State, etc have all had their 40 years in the wilderness, so to speak).

Will Michigan win a national title anytime soon? Probably not. The SEC is just crazy, both for locally-grown talent and their willingness to bend the rules. But after ND made it to the NCG last year, there's no reason to believe that Michigan could never again contend for a title.


I appreciate your optimism but I disagree. They haven't been nationally relevant since what 98? That's nearly 15 years ago, that's more than just a down period.


November 12th, 2013, 7:44 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
My definition of nationally relevant would be consistently ranking in the top 10, getting to major bowl games. So 2006.


November 12th, 2013, 10:57 pm
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
aManNamedSuh wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Hold your horses -- Michigan absolutely could be nationally relevant again. They have the donors (Ross just gave a cool $100M), a broad base of alumni (guys at every major sports/media network), and the name still gets recruits. They're going through a down period, but every major program has (USC, Alabama, Florida State, etc have all had their 40 years in the wilderness, so to speak).

Will Michigan win a national title anytime soon? Probably not. The SEC is just crazy, both for locally-grown talent and their willingness to bend the rules. But after ND made it to the NCG last year, there's no reason to believe that Michigan could never again contend for a title.


I appreciate your optimism but I disagree. They haven't been nationally relevant since what 98? That's nearly 15 years ago, that's more than just a down period.

I agree with Blueskies here. As a ND fan, I watched a lot of years of bad football, only to be pleasantly surprised last year when they made the title game. All it takes is 1 year of a good run and Michigan will be back to being relevant. A good year builds tons of hype, which gets better recruits, which leads to more future success. It's a virtuous circle. Look at Alabama. Go back to the years prior to Saban arriving (2007). In the 10 year preceding him, they only finished the season in the top 25 5 times. Their record during that time was 77 & 58 (57% winning percentage), they had 6 winning seasons, 1 conference title, and zero national championships. Then Saban arrives and everything changes. Compare that to Michigan during the same time frame (1996-2006). They finished in the top 25 9 times, their record was 104 & 32 (76% winning percentage), they had 10 winning seasons and zero losing seasons, 5 conference titles, and 1 national championship. They were very much nationally relevant. Then Carr retired, and things went downhill.

In college football, the coach makes a huge difference, and 1 year of success with a good coach (at a major football program) will generally lead to multiple successful years. History shows that across the board.

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November 13th, 2013, 5:42 am
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Post Re: UofM vs. MSU
Touchdown Jesus wrote:
aManNamedSuh wrote:
Blueskies wrote:
Hold your horses -- Michigan absolutely could be nationally relevant again. They have the donors (Ross just gave a cool $100M), a broad base of alumni (guys at every major sports/media network), and the name still gets recruits. They're going through a down period, but every major program has (USC, Alabama, Florida State, etc have all had their 40 years in the wilderness, so to speak).

Will Michigan win a national title anytime soon? Probably not. The SEC is just crazy, both for locally-grown talent and their willingness to bend the rules. But after ND made it to the NCG last year, there's no reason to believe that Michigan could never again contend for a title.


I appreciate your optimism but I disagree. They haven't been nationally relevant since what 98? That's nearly 15 years ago, that's more than just a down period.

I agree with Blueskies here. As a ND fan, I watched a lot of years of bad football, only to be pleasantly surprised last year when they made the title game. All it takes is 1 year of a good run and Michigan will be back to being relevant. A good year builds tons of hype, which gets better recruits, which leads to more future success. It's a virtuous circle. Look at Alabama. Go back to the years prior to Saban arriving (2007). In the 10 year preceding him, they only finished the season in the top 25 5 times. Their record during that time was 77 & 58 (57% winning percentage), they had 6 winning seasons, 1 conference title, and zero national championships. Then Saban arrives and everything changes. Compare that to Michigan during the same time frame (1996-2006). They finished in the top 25 9 times, their record was 104 & 32 (76% winning percentage), they had 10 winning seasons and zero losing seasons, 5 conference titles, and 1 national championship. They were very much nationally relevant. Then Carr retired, and things went downhill.

In college football, the coach makes a huge difference, and 1 year of success with a good coach (at a major football program) will generally lead to multiple successful years. History shows that across the board.


But ND was proved to be a fraud and are mediocre at best this year, my definition is just slightly more strict. I think Blue and your definition defines a really good regional program, not a national one. But I agree a fluke year can happen it would just be that though.


November 13th, 2013, 9:44 am
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