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 Crisis in the Secondary 
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
Hope Xander can use some of his magic on the next draft, but I believe not picking in the top 5 will give us some wiggle room to trade up and/or allow us to use a position of need/bpa combo.

C Stork is projected as a 4th rounder right now. Depending on the depth of position in this year's draft, I say: CB, WR, S or LB, C. Too bad it can't be like fantasy where you load up a certain position then trade for what you need!

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November 19th, 2013, 1:07 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
Even if we bumble our way into a playoff spot, there's no way we're going anywhere with this secondary. Absolutely pathetic.

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November 24th, 2013, 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
The secondary was bad today, and gave up 2 inexcusable big plays, but Overall the D played well (but is horrible at forcing TOs - its been over 2 games). The offense gave up 5 TOs, and ST a blocked Punt, and thats why we lost.


November 24th, 2013, 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
DJ-B wrote:
The secondary was bad today, and gave up 2 inexcusable big plays, but Overall the D played well (but is horrible at forcing TOs - its been over 2 games). The offense gave up 5 TOs, and ST a blocked Punt, and thats why we lost.


I agree completely. The defense only gave up 17 points, which doesn't seem unreasonable for a team where the bulk of the talent is on offense. The game was lost by the 5 turnovers and blocked punt (a 6th turnover IMHO). If anything, the defense deserves some props for keeping a 6-turnover offense in the game until the end of the fourth quarter.


November 24th, 2013, 7:07 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
Growler wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
The secondary was bad today, and gave up 2 inexcusable big plays, but Overall the D played well (but is horrible at forcing TOs - its been over 2 games). The offense gave up 5 TOs, and ST a blocked Punt, and thats why we lost.


I agree completely. The defense only gave up 17 points, which doesn't seem unreasonable for a team where the bulk of the talent is on offense. The game was lost by the 5 turnovers and blocked punt (a 6th turnover IMHO). If anything, the defense deserves some props for keeping a 6-turnover offense in the game until the end of the fourth quarter.


100% agree. The secondary has been suspect all season, so them giving up a couple really long passes is to be expected. The offense giving up the ball is what lost this game. Predominantly, Matt Stafford lost this game...not because of the last pick, but because of all the other BS before that.

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November 24th, 2013, 7:16 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
m2karateman wrote:
Growler wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
The secondary was bad today, and gave up 2 inexcusable big plays, but Overall the D played well (but is horrible at forcing TOs - its been over 2 games). The offense gave up 5 TOs, and ST a blocked Punt, and thats why we lost.


I agree completely. The defense only gave up 17 points, which doesn't seem unreasonable for a team where the bulk of the talent is on offense. The game was lost by the 5 turnovers and blocked punt (a 6th turnover IMHO). If anything, the defense deserves some props for keeping a 6-turnover offense in the game until the end of the fourth quarter.


100% agree. The secondary has been suspect all season, so them giving up a couple really long passes is to be expected. The offense giving up the ball is what lost this game. Predominantly, Matt Stafford lost this game...not because of the last pick, but because of all the other BS before that.


i dont see how you can pin it ALL or MOSTLY on stafford? was he taking balls off his facemask, ducking throws to allow them to go for a pick 6, jumping early on 3rd and 1, fumbling amazingly out of bounds, getting punts blocked. did he have anything to do with a 95 yard drive by tampa? sure he had two picks on him and missed a couple open throws but this team is pathetic its not 1 guy. i know you think your winning some argument on the best franchise QB thread but IMO ur seeing what you want to see. maybe they should go back and get ur boy culpepper again


November 24th, 2013, 7:28 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Growler wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
The secondary was bad today, and gave up 2 inexcusable big plays, but Overall the D played well (but is horrible at forcing TOs - its been over 2 games). The offense gave up 5 TOs, and ST a blocked Punt, and thats why we lost.


I agree completely. The defense only gave up 17 points, which doesn't seem unreasonable for a team where the bulk of the talent is on offense. The game was lost by the 5 turnovers and blocked punt (a 6th turnover IMHO). If anything, the defense deserves some props for keeping a 6-turnover offense in the game until the end of the fourth quarter.


100% agree. The secondary has been suspect all season, so them giving up a couple really long passes is to be expected. The offense giving up the ball is what lost this game. Predominantly, Matt Stafford lost this game...not because of the last pick, but because of all the other BS before that.


i dont see how you can pin it ALL or MOSTLY on stafford? was he taking balls off his facemask, ducking throws to allow them to go for a pick 6, jumping early on 3rd and 1, fumbling amazingly out of bounds, getting punts blocked. did he have anything to do with a 95 yard drive by tampa? sure he had two picks on him and missed a couple open throws but this team is pathetic its not 1 guy. i know you think your winning some argument on the best franchise QB thread but IMO ur seeing what you want to see. maybe they should go back and get ur boy culpepper again


Stafford was horrible yesterday. Ball off the facemask? Probably because he zipped it from 10 yards away, more out of frustration than need. Duck the pass? How about Stafford throws the ball in FRONT of the receiver, rather than behind him. If he throws it to the right spot, no way that ball gets picked. That's WHAT HE GETS PAID FOR! And he missed a lot more than just a couple open throws. I agree that drops have obviously been a problem. And while he isn't responsible for the long passes for Tampa, or the long drives, he IS responsible for the turnovers. Call it what you want, I'll call it what I want. I've been saying the entire season that Stafford is very inconsistent, and I stand by my assertion. It's not my fault you can't pry yourself away from his nutsack.

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November 25th, 2013, 9:47 am
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
m2karateman wrote:
The Legend wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
Growler wrote:
DJ-B wrote:
The secondary was bad today, and gave up 2 inexcusable big plays, but Overall the D played well (but is horrible at forcing TOs - its been over 2 games). The offense gave up 5 TOs, and ST a blocked Punt, and thats why we lost.


I agree completely. The defense only gave up 17 points, which doesn't seem unreasonable for a team where the bulk of the talent is on offense. The game was lost by the 5 turnovers and blocked punt (a 6th turnover IMHO). If anything, the defense deserves some props for keeping a 6-turnover offense in the game until the end of the fourth quarter.


100% agree. The secondary has been suspect all season, so them giving up a couple really long passes is to be expected. The offense giving up the ball is what lost this game. Predominantly, Matt Stafford lost this game...not because of the last pick, but because of all the other BS before that.


i dont see how you can pin it ALL or MOSTLY on stafford? was he taking balls off his facemask, ducking throws to allow them to go for a pick 6, jumping early on 3rd and 1, fumbling amazingly out of bounds, getting punts blocked. did he have anything to do with a 95 yard drive by tampa? sure he had two picks on him and missed a couple open throws but this team is pathetic its not 1 guy. i know you think your winning some argument on the best franchise QB thread but IMO ur seeing what you want to see. maybe they should go back and get ur boy culpepper again


Stafford was horrible yesterday. Ball off the facemask? Probably because he zipped it from 10 yards away, more out of frustration than need. Duck the pass? How about Stafford throws the ball in FRONT of the receiver, rather than behind him. If he throws it to the right spot, no way that ball gets picked. That's WHAT HE GETS PAID FOR! And he missed a lot more than just a couple open throws. I agree that drops have obviously been a problem. And while he isn't responsible for the long passes for Tampa, or the long drives, he IS responsible for the turnovers. Call it what you want, I'll call it what I want. I've been saying the entire season that Stafford is very inconsistent, and I stand by my assertion. It's not my fault you can't pry yourself away from his nutsack.


wait wha? 2 picks bounce off a reciever (both VERY CATCHABLE) and thats somehow Staff's fault? Pett ducks a (albiet not perfect) pass and thats Staff's fault? one pick..ONE...was on Stafford. Out of 6 T.O.'s, (counting the blocked kick) 1 was on Staffords shoulders. How is he responsible for the loss? He didnt play great, but he played pretty decently....decently enough to win yesterday thats for certain.

Im not sure how any one person can shoulder the blaim for yesterdays catastrophy.

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November 25th, 2013, 3:41 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
Well, I am pretty much a Stafford slappy. Yesterday he was as bad as he gets in some ways. He's a risk taker, and you will get some picks from him that you don't want. What keeps me in his camp, is that with the game in the balance at the end in the clutch he delivered the ball to CJ's hands with time to win the game should the play be made as expected. Lots of stuff preceded that, and he made lots of bad throws prior.

It's kind of simple with the Lions. If Staff craps the bed, they lose. He just about overcame his own lousy game and won it anyhow thanks to TB not finishing the job earlier. He has kind of an icy confidence that I think serves him and the team well. The Lions blew their chance at walking away with the division with these last two losses, but its done. They still can win that title if they get their act together. I think we are going to learn a lot on Thursday about where the Lions are at and what they can get done.

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November 25th, 2013, 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
jrd66 wrote:
Well, I am pretty much a Stafford slappy. Yesterday he was as bad as he gets in some ways. He's a risk taker, and you will get some picks from him that you don't want. What keeps me in his camp, is that with the game in the balance at the end in the clutch he delivered the ball to CJ's hands with time to win the game should the play be made as expected. Lots of stuff preceded that, and he made lots of bad throws prior.

It's kind of simple with the Lions. If Staff craps the bed, they lose. He just about overcame his own lousy game and won it anyhow thanks to TB not finishing the job earlier. He has kind of an icy confidence that I think serves him and the team well. The Lions blew their chance at walking away with the division with these last two losses, but its done. They still can win that title if they get their act together. I think we are going to learn a lot on Thursday about where the Lions are at and what they can get done.



I agree Stafford had a below average game but not nearly as bad as the stat line would indicate. the bottom line is in the 4th quarter, Stafford made the throws the Lions needed him to make to win the game but other players on the Lions let the team down. Whether it was Chris Houston getting beat deep while Louis Delmas tried to come up and set up a kill shot on an already covered receiver who wasnt even a threat for a first down, blowing field position with a blocked punt, the unbelievable fumble or false start by Kris Durham, or Calvin Johnson not hanging on to that final pass inside the 5 yard line. Stafford - whether he was at fault for plays that occurred earlier in the game or not - he was not part of the process of choking down the stretch to seal defeat and eliminate any chance at victory.


November 25th, 2013, 11:10 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
When you only get beat by 3 points, and you have:

1. INTs off tipped balls

2. INT thrown to a DB

3. INT from a ducked ball

4. a bizarro fumble

5. a blocked punt

6. an 85 yard reception with blown coverage and an awful missed tackle

7. another long TD drive

There are plenty of people you can point to and say "if X does that differently, we win". That doesn't mean you can pin the loss on player X, IMO. That also doesn't mean that you can excuse player X by saying "but if player Y does that differently, we win, so it can't be player X's fault". Frankly they are all at fault. All responsible for this loss. CJ, Pett, Staff, Durham, Delmas, Houston, Bush (secure the f*cking first down you idiot - in all the crap, this infuriating moment has gone under the radar) etc etc.

Any given game, you'll get one or two mistakes like that. Having this many all in one game made it virtually impossible to win. We lost by sheer team effort.


November 26th, 2013, 6:22 am
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
I agree that nearly everyone had a hand in this loss. There could have been more pressure on TBs quarterback, less pressure on our quarterback, a game plan that involved running the ball more, etc. However, if you are going to credit a QB when his team wins, even if he played a mediocre game, then you credit him with the loss when he plays a mediocre game. Doesn't mean it is all his fault, any more than the win is all his doing. Stafford has gone on record to say he underperformed on Sunday. And while I applaud his efforts at the end of the game, he needs to make that type of effort THROUGHOUT the game. His efforts remain inconsistent, week to week, drive to drive. Up and until he becomes a more consistent quarterback, the Lions offense will continue to have its struggles. That is the nature of the quarterback driven NFL for EVERY team. I don't excuse the drops, or the long TDs given up, or the missed tackles, etc. But quarterbacks are the highest paid position, on average, in the NFL for a very good reason. They have to shoulder the blame. Sorry if you don't agree with that, but that's the way it is. Stafford screwed the pooch on Sunday, and the Lions lost. Had he played better, that last drive would have been to run out the clock, instead of to try and steal a win.

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November 26th, 2013, 3:21 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
m2karateman wrote:
I agree that nearly everyone had a hand in this loss. There could have been more pressure on TBs quarterback, less pressure on our quarterback, a game plan that involved running the ball more, etc. However, if you are going to credit a QB when his team wins, even if he played a mediocre game, then you credit him with the loss when he plays a mediocre game. Doesn't mean it is all his fault, any more than the win is all his doing. Stafford has gone on record to say he underperformed on Sunday. And while I applaud his efforts at the end of the game, he needs to make that type of effort THROUGHOUT the game. His efforts remain inconsistent, week to week, drive to drive. Up and until he becomes a more consistent quarterback, the Lions offense will continue to have its struggles. That is the nature of the quarterback driven NFL for EVERY team. I don't excuse the drops, or the long TDs given up, or the missed tackles, etc. But quarterbacks are the highest paid position, on average, in the NFL for a very good reason. They have to shoulder the blame. Sorry if you don't agree with that, but that's the way it is. Stafford screwed the pooch on Sunday, and the Lions lost. Had he played better, that last drive would have been to run out the clock, instead of to try and steal a win.

I agree 100%. My take on Stafford is basically this: early in the year I found myself regularly thinking that he was playing really well and noticing that he really wasn't missing many throws. Now, I consistently see him miss on swing passes to RBs, he throws behind guys a lot, is missing CJ on open deep routes, etc. In the past 3 weeks he has missed at least 3 open throws in which the player had a clear path to the end zone. All of those could have been the difference between winning and losing.

There are basically two ways (in terms of QB play) that teams generally win. Either they have an elite QB who makes all the key throws and leads the team, or they have a dominant other aspect (e.g. a defense like Chicago's when they went to the SB against Indy, or the Ravens D from a few years ago) and the QB is basically just tasked with not making critical mistakes. Very rarely does a team achieve any real success with a QB who makes some big throws, but misses easy ones, and occasionally makes critical turnovers. Especially with a team structured like the Lions. They need a QB who makes big plays and leads the team. Stafford needs to step it up and play better if this team is to have any chance.

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November 26th, 2013, 3:35 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
Stafford has never been overly accurate, we knew this coming out of college. He is also a pretty big risk taker, we knew this as well. Reminds me of a guy who used to play in Green Bay a little bit.

Key for us is going to have Staff get hot at the right time, end of year heading into playoffs.

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November 26th, 2013, 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Crisis in the Secondary
This belongs in one of the Stafford threads but I've said it since they drafted him, "he is an Aikman type of QB." Stafford needs a consistent running game that can shorten a game and soften up defenses. Aikman was never one of the most accurate QBs in the league, but it wasn't as obvious as it is with Stafford because he wasn't asked to chuck the ball 40-50 times every game. The Lions don't need Emmitt Smith but they do need a running game that can pick up short yardage 1st downs at least enough to make defenses respect it. The way things have been and continue to be, have the Lions facing defenses that focus on coverage even in short yardage 3rd downs with confidence that the Lions don't even have enough faith in the running game to regularly attempt running. Until the Lions get a reliable running game and make opposing LBs and Ss at least respect the run in short yardage situations it's going to be hard for them to consistently put drives together. With a better run game they could reduce Stafford's pass attempts to around 30-35 a game, open up a play action pass game, and keep a suspect secondary off the field.

Aikman like Stafford could make the big plays down the field but he wasn't asked to constantly throw the ball on long sustained drives like Stafford is asked to do. This is a new NFL where the league wants teams to throw the ball but consistent running games and solid defenses still win championships. How many Super Bowls has Brady won since the defense became suspect and they became a pass happy team? Yeah they've been high powered and in contention every year but they have zero championships. It's the balanced teams that win and until the Lions find that balance Stafford will continue to look suspect and amazing from game to game if not possession to possession.


November 26th, 2013, 10:48 pm
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