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 Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go 
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
HechePipe wrote:
Only the Detroit Lions have a fan base whose coach takes a winless and historically terrible and depleted team from 0-16 to making the playoffs 2/3 years only to send him packing after their 40-10 drubbing of the Packers on Thanksgiving day.
I'm beginning to think that Lions fans just like having different head coaches. For you guys, the game is more about the head coaching position than about the game being played on the field.
I've said it a million times... If the Lions ever win a Superbowl, Lions fans would marginalize it somehow. Either they'll get too many penalties during the win or they'll sit your favorite lineman on 3rd down and you'll want a new head coach after winning it. Ridiculous.
I hate Linehan and wish they'd do something about the predictable playcalling, but whatever has been going on, it's working. The Lions have beaten their division opponents at least one time this season for the first time since 1999. But let's fire everyone and start rebuilding again because the wins didn't come in the fashion that I wanted them to.
When the Lions draft a player, if it's not who Lions fans want, I think they don't root for the player to become the player they want to see. I think they root for the player to suck, just so they're "right" about their mock drafts. People still want Suh to be traded, Calvin to be traded, and Hill to start. Funny bunch of squirrels, Lions fans are.


HechePipe, Lions fans want the team to win. But they also want to see them succeed in the playoffs. Taking a team to the playoffs isn't enough. And let's face facts here...do you REALLY think the Lions get into the playoffs this season if the Packers and Bears wouldn't have had injury issues? I don't believe they would have, and I certainly know others believe the same way. So watching this team beat up on Green Bay was great, but it doesn't erase the stumbling of this team the previous two weeks against teams that were struggling before they faced the Lions. We Lions fans aren't a funny bunch of squirrels, we are loyal to a team who hasn't sniffed a championship in 56 years. Playoffs are good, but not enough. And the feeling is, and I share it, that Schwartz is NOT the guy to take this team to the pinnacle of professional football. Talent on the field is great, but you also have to have talent on the sidelines. There have been plenty of super talented teams who have done squat during a given season, and often it can be traced to a head coach just not doing a good enough job.

So tell me HechePipe, how much longer do you want to wait? How much longer before you accept that Schwartz isn't the guy to take this team to a Super Bowl? Do we wait until Calvin retires? Until Suh and/or Fairley leave for bigger paychecks? Do we wait until Stafford gets to a point where he wants to win it all, rather than continue to play for this franchise?

Detroit has the talent NOW, and there is no guarantee they'll have this talented a roster again any time soon.

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November 29th, 2013, 6:22 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
m2karateman wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
Only the Detroit Lions have a fan base whose coach takes a winless and historically terrible and depleted team from 0-16 to making the playoffs 2/3 years only to send him packing after their 40-10 drubbing of the Packers on Thanksgiving day.
I'm beginning to think that Lions fans just like having different head coaches. For you guys, the game is more about the head coaching position than about the game being played on the field.
I've said it a million times... If the Lions ever win a Superbowl, Lions fans would marginalize it somehow. Either they'll get too many penalties during the win or they'll sit your favorite lineman on 3rd down and you'll want a new head coach after winning it. Ridiculous.
I hate Linehan and wish they'd do something about the predictable playcalling, but whatever has been going on, it's working. The Lions have beaten their division opponents at least one time this season for the first time since 1999. But let's fire everyone and start rebuilding again because the wins didn't come in the fashion that I wanted them to.
When the Lions draft a player, if it's not who Lions fans want, I think they don't root for the player to become the player they want to see. I think they root for the player to suck, just so they're "right" about their mock drafts. People still want Suh to be traded, Calvin to be traded, and Hill to start. Funny bunch of squirrels, Lions fans are.


HechePipe, Lions fans want the team to win. But they also want to see them succeed in the playoffs. Taking a team to the playoffs isn't enough. And let's face facts here...do you REALLY think the Lions get into the playoffs this season if the Packers and Bears wouldn't have had injury issues?

I think the same thing can be said for EVERY team that earns a wildcard spot. Hey, injuries kill a lot of teams. That's not an "if," that's a fact of professional football. What if Cutler didn't get injured in the playoffs? What if Tom Brady didn't tear his ACL that year? What if Roethlisberger didn't get hurt that year? What if Adrian Peterson didn't wreck his knee? Better yet, what if Calvin wasn't hurt during the first matchup? Could've been the first win in GB in a long time. That's why the games are played on the field and not on paper. And so on and so on...

Quote:
I don't believe they would have, and I certainly know others believe the same way.

Hey, believe what you want, but injuries happen. If Stafford goes down tomorrow, I think Hill can carry the Lions better than Flynn carried the Pack. Should've gotten a better #2 if you're a GB fan. I don't even think the absence of Rodgers was their biggest difficulty. The biggest difficulty for the Pack for years has been their offensive line. I guess if their line was better, maybe this discussion would sound different. That defense is atrocious too. Flynn didn't allow the Lions to score 40 points. Did he?
Quote:
So watching this team beat up on Green Bay was great, but it doesn't erase the stumbling of this team the previous two weeks against teams that were struggling before they faced the Lions. We Lions fans aren't a funny bunch of squirrels, we are loyal to a team who hasn't sniffed a championship in 56 years. Playoffs are good, but not enough. And the feeling is, and I share it, that Schwartz is NOT the guy to take this team to the pinnacle of professional football. Talent on the field is great, but you also have to have talent on the sidelines. There have been plenty of super talented teams who have done squat during a given season, and often it can be traced to a head coach just not doing a good enough job.

Sure and I think Schwartz has made some bad calls. I'm not even in his camp, but who is the guy that can get them to the pinnacle? If you're calling for his head, surely you have the solution available, right? If you know he's gotta go, then you must have some sort of idea about who can do a better job. I mean, if not, then how do you know he's doing so terribly? His record isn't reflecting a terrible fire-worthy head coaching performance, given what he's inherited. Has there been a coach available that could undoubtedly have done a better job than Schwartz has? If not, then you're just changing coaches simply for the sake of changing coaches, which is what the Lions have done for the last 50 years and I'd like you to take a look at where it has gotten them.

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So tell me HechePipe, how much longer do you want to wait? How much longer before you accept that Schwartz isn't the guy to take this team to a Super Bowl? Do we wait until Calvin retires? Until Suh and/or Fairley leave for bigger paychecks? Do we wait until Stafford gets to a point where he wants to win it all, rather than continue to play for this franchise?

Detroit has the talent NOW, and there is no guarantee they'll have this talented a roster again any time soon.

Well, you're assuming that the Lions can't get another dominant DT or WR. Who's to say that any of these players are going to leave? I'm sure some of the talent will leave, but that's why you have a GM that can replace talent. Will we ever get another CJ? Probably not. Will we get another DT like Suh? Maybe, maybe not. But I see the Lions adding pro-bowlers every year. In a few years, will we be able to get another Warford or Ansah? Will we be able to get another Bush, etc?
You're making the assumption that the Lions are as good as they will ever be. And that doesn't have to be true. They may not have the best DT combo in the league, maybe by then it will be the 2nd best with the best DBs, or the best WR core that doesn't include Calvin... What you're essentially saying is that the Lions can not get any better than they are today and of course that's just not necessarily true. Given the picks we've made in this year's draft, the overall team seems like it can only get better.


November 29th, 2013, 6:37 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
m2karateman wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
Only the Detroit Lions have a fan base whose coach takes a winless and historically terrible and depleted team from 0-16 to making the playoffs 2/3 years only to send him packing after their 40-10 drubbing of the Packers on Thanksgiving day.
I'm beginning to think that Lions fans just like having different head coaches. For you guys, the game is more about the head coaching position than about the game being played on the field.
I've said it a million times... If the Lions ever win a Superbowl, Lions fans would marginalize it somehow. Either they'll get too many penalties during the win or they'll sit your favorite lineman on 3rd down and you'll want a new head coach after winning it. Ridiculous.
I hate Linehan and wish they'd do something about the predictable playcalling, but whatever has been going on, it's working. The Lions have beaten their division opponents at least one time this season for the first time since 1999. But let's fire everyone and start rebuilding again because the wins didn't come in the fashion that I wanted them to.
When the Lions draft a player, if it's not who Lions fans want, I think they don't root for the player to become the player they want to see. I think they root for the player to suck, just so they're "right" about their mock drafts. People still want Suh to be traded, Calvin to be traded, and Hill to start. Funny bunch of squirrels, Lions fans are.


HechePipe, Lions fans want the team to win. But they also want to see them succeed in the playoffs. Taking a team to the playoffs isn't enough. And let's face facts here...do you REALLY think the Lions get into the playoffs this season if the Packers and Bears wouldn't have had injury issues? I don't believe they would have, and I certainly know others believe the same way. So watching this team beat up on Green Bay was great, but it doesn't erase the stumbling of this team the previous two weeks against teams that were struggling before they faced the Lions. We Lions fans aren't a funny bunch of squirrels, we are loyal to a team who hasn't sniffed a championship in 56 years. Playoffs are good, but not enough. And the feeling is, and I share it, that Schwartz is NOT the guy to take this team to the pinnacle of professional football. Talent on the field is great, but you also have to have talent on the sidelines. There have been plenty of super talented teams who have done squat during a given season, and often it can be traced to a head coach just not doing a good enough job.

So tell me HechePipe, how much longer do you want to wait? How much longer before you accept that Schwartz isn't the guy to take this team to a Super Bowl? Do we wait until Calvin retires? Until Suh and/or Fairley leave for bigger paychecks? Do we wait until Stafford gets to a point where he wants to win it all, rather than continue to play for this franchise?

Detroit has the talent NOW, and there is no guarantee they'll have this talented a roster again any time soon.


Or we can go through it all again from the firing of Wayne Fontes on to the 0-16 season.


November 29th, 2013, 6:58 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
HechePipe wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
HechePipe wrote:
Only the Detroit Lions have a fan base whose coach takes a winless and historically terrible and depleted team from 0-16 to making the playoffs 2/3 years only to send him packing after their 40-10 drubbing of the Packers on Thanksgiving day.
I'm beginning to think that Lions fans just like having different head coaches. For you guys, the game is more about the head coaching position than about the game being played on the field.
I've said it a million times... If the Lions ever win a Superbowl, Lions fans would marginalize it somehow. Either they'll get too many penalties during the win or they'll sit your favorite lineman on 3rd down and you'll want a new head coach after winning it. Ridiculous.
I hate Linehan and wish they'd do something about the predictable playcalling, but whatever has been going on, it's working. The Lions have beaten their division opponents at least one time this season for the first time since 1999. But let's fire everyone and start rebuilding again because the wins didn't come in the fashion that I wanted them to.
When the Lions draft a player, if it's not who Lions fans want, I think they don't root for the player to become the player they want to see. I think they root for the player to suck, just so they're "right" about their mock drafts. People still want Suh to be traded, Calvin to be traded, and Hill to start. Funny bunch of squirrels, Lions fans are.


HechePipe, Lions fans want the team to win. But they also want to see them succeed in the playoffs. Taking a team to the playoffs isn't enough. And let's face facts here...do you REALLY think the Lions get into the playoffs this season if the Packers and Bears wouldn't have had injury issues?

I think the same thing can be said for EVERY team that earns a wildcard spot. Hey, injuries kill a lot of teams. That's not an "if," that's a fact of professional football. What if Cutler didn't get injured in the playoffs? What if Tom Brady didn't tear his ACL that year? What if Roethlisberger didn't get hurt that year? What if Adrian Peterson didn't wreck his knee? Better yet, what if Calvin wasn't hurt during the first matchup? Could've been the first win in GB in a long time. That's why the games are played on the field and not on paper. And so on and so on...

Quote:
I don't believe they would have, and I certainly know others believe the same way.

Hey, believe what you want, but injuries happen. If Stafford goes down tomorrow, I think Hill can carry the Lions better than Flynn carried the Pack. Should've gotten a better #2 if you're a GB fan. I don't even think the absence of Rodgers was their biggest difficulty. The biggest difficulty for the Pack for years has been their offensive line. I guess if their line was better, maybe this discussion would sound different. That defense is atrocious too. Flynn didn't allow the Lions to score 40 points. Did he?
Quote:
So watching this team beat up on Green Bay was great, but it doesn't erase the stumbling of this team the previous two weeks against teams that were struggling before they faced the Lions. We Lions fans aren't a funny bunch of squirrels, we are loyal to a team who hasn't sniffed a championship in 56 years. Playoffs are good, but not enough. And the feeling is, and I share it, that Schwartz is NOT the guy to take this team to the pinnacle of professional football. Talent on the field is great, but you also have to have talent on the sidelines. There have been plenty of super talented teams who have done squat during a given season, and often it can be traced to a head coach just not doing a good enough job.

Sure and I think Schwartz has made some bad calls. I'm not even in his camp, but who is the guy that can get them to the pinnacle? If you're calling for his head, surely you have the solution available, right? If you know he's gotta go, then you must have some sort of idea about who can do a better job. I mean, if not, then how do you know he's doing so terribly? His record isn't reflecting a terrible fire-worthy head coaching performance, given what he's inherited. Has there been a coach available that could undoubtedly have done a better job than Schwartz has? If not, then you're just changing coaches simply for the sake of changing coaches, which is what the Lions have done for the last 50 years and I'd like you to take a look at where it has gotten them.

Quote:
So tell me HechePipe, how much longer do you want to wait? How much longer before you accept that Schwartz isn't the guy to take this team to a Super Bowl? Do we wait until Calvin retires? Until Suh and/or Fairley leave for bigger paychecks? Do we wait until Stafford gets to a point where he wants to win it all, rather than continue to play for this franchise?

Detroit has the talent NOW, and there is no guarantee they'll have this talented a roster again any time soon.

Well, you're assuming that the Lions can't get another dominant DT or WR. Who's to say that any of these players are going to leave? I'm sure some of the talent will leave, but that's why you have a GM that can replace talent. Will we ever get another CJ? Probably not. Will we get another DT like Suh? Maybe, maybe not. But I see the Lions adding pro-bowlers every year. In a few years, will we be able to get another Warford or Ansah? Will we be able to get another Bush, etc?
You're making the assumption that the Lions are as good as they will ever be. And that doesn't have to be true. They may not have the best DT combo in the league, maybe by then it will be the 2nd best with the best DBs, or the best WR core that doesn't include Calvin... What you're essentially saying is that the Lions can not get any better than they are today and of course that's just not necessarily true. Given the picks we've made in this year's draft, the overall team seems like it can only get better.


Well done Hechepipe. I completely agree.


November 29th, 2013, 7:03 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
i would just say there is such a thing as a salary cap and a draft in the NFL and the fact that most player careers are short. besides those factors, i agree w everything hechepipe says also...


November 29th, 2013, 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
m2karateman wrote:
And let's face facts here...do you REALLY think the Lions get into the playoffs this season if the Packers and Bears wouldn't have had injury issues? I don't believe they would have, and I certainly know others believe the same way. So watching this team beat up on Green Bay was great, but it doesn't erase the stumbling of this team the previous two weeks against teams that were struggling before they faced the Lions.


I agree with M2K. Also, the Lions have NOT made the playoffs yet. Given the way they've been playing lately (multiple turnovers in each game) they could lose to any of the Eagles, Giants, and/or Ravens. What if they cough up four turnovers against any of those three teams like they just did to the Packers? Heck, they lost to rookie-quarterback-helmed Tampa Bay (!!!) (at home after a disappointing road loss in Pittsburgh), so Minnesota could beat them too. What happens if they have a couple turnovers and the opposing team has a semi-competent offense?

Furthermore, they've now put themselves in a position where if Chicago runs the table against a relatively easy schedule (and I think they have the capability to do it) the Lions will not win the division and make the playoffs unless they, too, run the table. Assuming that Chicago beats the Vikings, the Lions will have to at least match Chicago's record for the final four games.

I think the Lions can (and should) win all four of their remaining games. Unfortunately, they've also demonstrated that they also have the ability to lose any and/or all of those games. The only real consistency with this team so far is their ability to throw and fumble games away. Also, keep in mind that but for a boneheaded inopportune holding penalty on a Dallas offensive lineman, the Lions would have a 6-6 record right now.

...And that's the problem. They don't have any kind of consistency and they continuously suffer from self-destructive game-killing errors. It isn't happening in an isolated single-game, nor even two games. We've now seen four games like this from them (Dallas, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Green Bay). I know they won in convincing fashion yesterday, but they also had 4 turnovers. I don't know what kinds of issues Green Bay is having, but they seemed to have the talent of a 2-14 team or worse. Against an average team they probably would have lost. (Teams that have 4 turnovers normally lose.) What would have happened if they played the same team but with an average-skill starting quarterback and an at least competent offensive line?

I don't know how much of that is on the coach or if it's also dumb luck, but when this happens consistently, game after game, you have to start wondering what sort of a role coaching plays in it. The Lions are consistently failing to play up to their potential, and that seems like a coaching issue. They need someone who can coach them to consistently play closer to their potential. I don't know who that coach is or if such a coach is available, but I don't think Schwartz is the answer.


November 30th, 2013, 4:06 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Growler wrote:
m2karateman wrote:
And let's face facts here...do you REALLY think the Lions get into the playoffs this season if the Packers and Bears wouldn't have had injury issues? I don't believe they would have, and I certainly know others believe the same way. So watching this team beat up on Green Bay was great, but it doesn't erase the stumbling of this team the previous two weeks against teams that were struggling before they faced the Lions.


I agree with M2K. Also, the Lions have NOT made the playoffs yet. Given the way they've been playing lately (multiple turnovers in each game) they could lose to any of the Eagles, Giants, and/or Ravens. What if they cough up four turnovers against any of those three teams like they just did to the Packers? Heck, they lost to rookie-quarterback-helmed Tampa Bay (!!!) (at home after a disappointing road loss in Pittsburgh), so Minnesota could beat them too. What happens if they have a couple turnovers and the opposing team has a semi-competent offense?

Furthermore, they've now put themselves in a position where if Chicago runs the table against a relatively easy schedule (and I think they have the capability to do it) the Lions will not win the division and make the playoffs unless they, too, run the table. Assuming that Chicago beats the Vikings, the Lions will have to at least match Chicago's record for the final four games.

I think the Lions can (and should) win all four of their remaining games. Unfortunately, they've also demonstrated that they also have the ability to lose any and/or all of those games. The only real consistency with this team so far is their ability to throw and fumble games away. Also, keep in mind that but for a boneheaded inopportune holding penalty on a Dallas offensive lineman, the Lions would have a 6-6 record right now.

...And that's the problem. They don't have any kind of consistency and they continuously suffer from self-destructive game-killing errors. It isn't happening in an isolated single-game, nor even two games. We've now seen four games like this from them (Dallas, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, and Green Bay). I know they won in convincing fashion yesterday, but they also had 4 turnovers. I don't know what kinds of issues Green Bay is having, but they seemed to have the talent of a 2-14 team or worse. Against an average team they probably would have lost. (Teams that have 4 turnovers normally lose.) What would have happened if they played the same team but with an average-skill starting quarterback and an at least competent offensive line?

I don't know how much of that is on the coach or if it's also dumb luck, but when this happens consistently, game after game, you have to start wondering what sort of a role coaching plays in it. The Lions are consistently failing to play up to their potential, and that seems like a coaching issue. They need someone who can coach them to consistently play closer to their potential. I don't know who that coach is or if such a coach is available, but I don't think Schwartz is the answer.

=D>

Also, I'll add in response to an earlier question about what coach we'd like to see here instead of Schwartz, I can think of one person right away who has won at the NFL level and has recently indicated he'd like to eventually get back into coaching: John Gruden. He's won a Super Bowl, and has consistently gotten his teams deep into the playoffs when he hasn't been saddled with horrible draft situations (post super bowl win in Tampa) or really bad injuries. All that said, he's not a perfect coach. Very few people are. But I think he's an upgrade over Schwartz.

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November 30th, 2013, 6:37 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
I'm going to get hate for saying this but Lovie would be a nice upgrade. He can forge a great defense with mostly average talent, if we can retain Linnahan, or get an OC of equal talent and get a coach who can get our D to play better we would be a contender.

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November 30th, 2013, 10:23 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
The thing that bothers me about Schwartz is that he doesn't show emotion. If I got a team on the field that's screwing up, then I want him to come unglued a little like he did against Harbaugh. But he doesn't! He is so stoic that it seems to affect the team. There were times in that game that he needed to tear someone's door out of the frame and he didn't. I don't get it....

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November 30th, 2013, 11:10 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The thing that bothers me about Schwartz is that he doesn't show emotion. If I got a team on the field that's screwing up, then I want him to come unglued a little like he did against Harbaugh. But he doesn't! He is so stoic that it seems to affect the team. There were times in that game that he needed to tear someone's door out of the frame and he didn't. I don't get it....


I dont know if I agree with your statement but I think I know what you are saying. It does seem Swartz is pretty complacent on the things that upset me...But he blows his top about other things...I dont think I'd ever call him Stoic! lol

IMO he is the personifacation of the team..inconsistant and erratic.

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November 30th, 2013, 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
WarEr4Christ wrote:
The thing that bothers me about Schwartz is that he doesn't show emotion. If I got a team on the field that's screwing up, then I want him to come unglued a little like he did against Harbaugh. But he doesn't! He is so stoic that it seems to affect the team. There were times in that game that he needed to tear someone's door out of the frame and he didn't. I don't get it....

Of all the things that could possibly bother someone about an NFL head coach and your main thing is that he "doesn't show emotion?" I guess, first of all, I have to disagree in general with that statement. From the Harbaugh incident to throwing headsets, I think he has shown plenty of emotion.
Also, you do realize that the camera isn't always on the coach during the game, right? Just because you didn't see something on FOX's cameras, doesn't mean it's not happening on the sidelines. You... do... understand that, right?
This is maybe the most ridiculous reason to fire someone. Even if it were true and the guy didn't show emotion (which he has and continues to do), a lot of fans would say that they want their team to be coached by someone who stays cool and doesn't show emotion from the sidelines. A lot of players and fans at the NFL level see it as a bad thing when the coach is constantly blowing up and screaming like a baby.
Man, if Belichick were coaching here, you'd be calling for his head every week. The dude is always the same monotone non-emotional guy week in and week out. His rings prove you don't need to scream and cry on the sidelines to coach an NFL team. Cheating aside, he is the quintessential winning NFL head coach and the only person who shows less emotion than The Hoodie would be someone in a coma. Blowing up on the sidelines has absolutely nothing to do with winning NFL games, yet you'd rather see that than a guy who takes a team from 0-16 to making the playoffs and is currently atop the NFCN late in the season on the cusp of making the playoffs again. I'm simply dumbfounded.

This is exactly what I'm talking about... Firing a coach for the sake of firing a coach. This is why Lions fans will always be unhappy with the product on the field, no matter the results. Firing a coach because the FOX cameras don't show you enough of his emotion... I seriously can't believe someone thinks that way. Oh well... Typical Lions fan.


November 30th, 2013, 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
regularjoe12 wrote:
I'm going to get hate for saying this but Lovie would be a nice upgrade. He can forge a great defense with mostly average talent, if we can retain Linnahan, or get an OC of equal talent and get a coach who can get our D to play better we would be a contender.

Couple things here...
First of all, Lovie didn't take "average talent" and turn them into a great defense. Lovie had great players and forged a great defense. Briggs, Urlacher, Tank Johnson, Tillman... The guy wasn't given scrubs to work with, he was given great defensive talent and the offense grossly underachieved. He's no Mike Babcock, just for the record.
What, exactly, is killing the Lions? I'll give you a hint: It rhymes with schmurnovers.
They have the best front 7 in football right now. The coaching staff has done a beautiful job with the development of the rookies on defense and I'm convinced that if you had just two CBs that can intercept passes, they would be head and shoulders above the majority of NFL teams. Right now, they are allowing less than 90 YPG to opponents rushing attacks. This defense is OVERachieving and is hardly the reason the Lions have lost these games. If anything, Linehan's offense that habitually gets off to sloth-like starts is what's killing the team. Methinks you have it backwards.
This defense is overachieving and I sincerely doubt that bringing in Lovie Smith is going to make it any better. The defense is doing their job. The offense is what's lacking. And I think we can agree that even components of the offense are overachieving. Who expected this offensive line to perform as well as they have? Nobody, that's who. I didn't, you didn't and I think even Linehan didn't know they'd be this good.
Who expected the RB core to perform this well? Bell, Riddick and Bush have done more than their share (Bush's fumbles aside).
Bringing in Lovie is a step backwards. There's a reason that Chicago couldn't wait to get rid of him.


November 30th, 2013, 2:08 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
You know, it just kills me...
Everyone was preaching, "BUILD FROM THE TRENCHES!!! BUILD FROM THE TRENCHES!!!!!" Here they are, built from the trenches. All-pro defensive linemen, all-pro offensive linemen. Arguably the best offensive line in the NFCN and without a doubt, the best defensive line in the entire NFL and maybe the best defensive line the NFL has ever seen. Here it is, folks... It's what you've been clamoring for. The Lions are still missing pieces because it's a work in progress. The results are on paper, winning records 2 of the last 3 years.
But hey, let's fire the coach and start all over again. They're on the cusp of making the playoffs again, but hey... It's not good enough. After going 0-16 a few years ago, we're all expecting the 1972 Miami Dolphins, but not just that... We want you to show emotion the way we want from the sidelines, we expect your press conferences to go exactly how we want and we want you to pick the players in FA and the draft that make fans happy, even when it's the wrong choice for the football team. When Stafford throws picks, we want you to put in the backup and win with him.
If the coach doesn't deliver these things in the manner in which we want, boom... You're gone. New head coach.
Utterly stupefying. I'll never understand it.


November 30th, 2013, 2:28 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
HechePipe wrote:
regularjoe12 wrote:
I'm going to get hate for saying this but Lovie would be a nice upgrade. He can forge a great defense with mostly average talent, if we can retain Linnahan, or get an OC of equal talent and get a coach who can get our D to play better we would be a contender.

Couple things here...
First of all, Lovie didn't take "average talent" and turn them into a great defense. Lovie had great players and forged a great defense. Briggs, Urlacher, Tank Johnson, Tillman... The guy wasn't given scrubs to work with, he was given great defensive talent and the offense grossly underachieved. He's no Mike Babcock, just for the record.
What, exactly, is killing the Lions? I'll give you a hint: It rhymes with schmurnovers.
They have the best front 7 in football right now. The coaching staff has done a beautiful job with the development of the rookies on defense and I'm convinced that if you had just two CBs that can intercept passes, they would be head and shoulders above the majority of NFL teams. Right now, they are allowing less than 90 YPG to opponents rushing attacks. This defense is OVERachieving and is hardly the reason the Lions have lost these games. If anything, Linehan's offense that habitually gets off to sloth-like starts is what's killing the team. Methinks you have it backwards.
This defense is overachieving and I sincerely doubt that bringing in Lovie Smith is going to make it any better. The defense is doing their job. The offense is what's lacking. And I think we can agree that even components of the offense are overachieving. Who expected this offensive line to perform as well as they have? Nobody, that's who. I didn't, you didn't and I think even Linehan didn't know they'd be this good.
Who expected the RB core to perform this well? Bell, Riddick and Bush have done more than their share (Bush's fumbles aside).
Bringing in Lovie is a step backwards. There's a reason that Chicago couldn't wait to get rid of him.

First I would argue that we don't even have close to the best front 7 in the league. We don't even have the best front 4 and our line is significantly stronger than our LBers.

2nd Lovie had Urlacher and Tillman. That's it for great players. Briggs is overrated and has been exposed as such everytime urlacher was out. Tank was only " great" for a year and a half. After his injury he was mediocre at best.

And finally a team defense that has allowed 20 points or more in all but 2 of its games is NOT overachieving. It's on the wrong side of average. They have played decently, only allowing 30+ points twice, but still far from overachieving.

As you pointed out turnovers are a big part of our losses...where has the defense contribution been over the past 4-5 weeks?
And didn't you find it hard to type " they couldn't wait to get rid of" a tenyered coach? He was there for like 12 years!

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November 30th, 2013, 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
HechePipe wrote:
You know, it just kills me...
Everyone was preaching, "BUILD FROM THE TRENCHES!!! BUILD FROM THE TRENCHES!!!!!" Here they are, built from the trenches. All-pro defensive linemen, all-pro offensive linemen. Arguably the best offensive line in the NFCN and without a doubt, the best defensive line in the entire NFL and maybe the best defensive line the NFL has ever seen. Here it is, folks... It's what you've been clamoring for. The Lions are still missing pieces because it's a work in progress. The results are on paper, winning records 2 of the last 3 years.
But hey, let's fire the coach and start all over again. They're on the cusp of making the playoffs again, but hey... It's not good enough. After going 0-16 a few years ago, we're all expecting the 1972 Miami Dolphins, but not just that... We want you to show emotion the way we want from the sidelines, we expect your press conferences to go exactly how we want and we want you to pick the players in FA and the draft that make fans happy, even when it's the wrong choice for the football team. When Stafford throws picks, we want you to put in the backup and win with him.
If the coach doesn't deliver these things in the manner in which we want, boom... You're gone. New head coach.
Utterly stupefying. I'll never understand it.


You and me both. =D> :idea: :arrow: :cheers:


November 30th, 2013, 2:51 pm
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