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 Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. 
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I thought this little read from a fairly popular daily devotional called Experiencing God, might shed some light on the changes you've seen in my character alone, but it also speaks for the other side of the coin as well. (The charts and graphs)



Experiencing God: Day By Day (Daily Devotional)


SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2013

Not in Word but in Prayer

For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. (1 Corinthians 4:20)

Christianity is not moral platitudes, lofty intentions, and noble thoughts. The fundamental characteristic of God’s kingdom is power. Paul faced constant criticism about his work among the early churches. Some of his detractors would travel to cities such as Corinth and speak extensively about all that Paul was doing incorrectly. At times, people in the churches were enticed to believe the slanderous criticisms against the apostle.


Paul responded with a reminder that the test of a kingdom citizen’s authenticity was not the persuasiveness of his words, but the spiritual power of his life. Paul candidly acknowledged that some did not find him eloquent in speech (2 Cor. 10:10). Yet they could not question God’s power in his life. He had seen many people converted, and many churches were started through his ministry. He had been used to heal the sick and raise the dead through God’s power. Regardless of whether his words were eloquent, they carried spiritual power and authority that came from God.

You will encounter many people who seek to convince you of their opinions concerning the kingdom of God. They may speak passionately. They may even bring charts and graphs to prove their points! But the test of the validity of their words is the spiritual power of their lives. If a person speaks forcefully about a point of doctrine but is habitually sinning, his words are discredited by his life. If a person talks of the power of God but gives no evidence of victory in her life, her words are empty. It is much easier to talk about the victorious Christian life than it is to live it.

If you only have the appearance of godliness without any corresponding spiritual power (2 Tim. 3:5), ask God to cleanse you of your sin and to fill you with His Spirit so that your life is characterized by power.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 24th, 2013, 8:41 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Well, no one can have a personal relationship with god -- it's impossible to have a relationship with something that doesn't exist.

You may think you have a relationship with god, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that people who don't share your delusion cannot point out the absurd fairly tale nature of Christianity.

And no, I'm not British. And if I was, I'd support abolishing the royal family.


November 24th, 2013, 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Blue,

I'm saddened to hear you speak with such authority on something you've never experienced. It is the same as if you were to tell me that being a Marine is the easiest job in the world, having never experienced boot camp, the crucible, forced marches up and down Mount Moutha, Grim Reaper, and oh yes combat! But that's okay, because I'm praying that in some way, some how, the Lord will bring a moment into your life that you can not explain away, reason, nor understand outside of Him. Will He do it? I can't say. Can He do it? Absolutely! But that's something for Him to decide, but I can tell you that some people need to get knocked off their horses and struck blind before they'll see, and maybe that's the kind of man that you are. I don't know but I'll continue to pray for you, because I can say with ABSOLUTE surety, that God does exist and you can have a relationship with Him.

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 25th, 2013, 1:51 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
GOD or No GOD,

I went through one of the darkest times of my life recently. Prayed a lot/spoke to GOD. This, weather or not GOD exists, gave me comfort and things are starting to look up. Coincidence, maybe maybe not. But praying gave me comfort and things in my life are getting better. So weather or not one believes in a higher power, positive thinking and belief in something can make a difference.

Frok

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November 27th, 2013, 11:40 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
frok wrote:
GOD or No GOD,

I went through one of the darkest times of my life recently. Prayed a lot/spoke to GOD. This, weather or not GOD exists, gave me comfort and things are starting to look up. Coincidence, maybe maybe not. But praying gave me comfort and things in my life are getting better. So weather or not one believes in a higher power, positive thinking and belief in something can make a difference.

Frok


This! 100 times over this. I have found that when people have faith in something bigger than themselves, when times get tough, they tend to be stronger due to their beliefs. I'm having trouble putting into words the reasons why, but I'll try it like this... When things are at their worst, people with faith never feel like their truly alone. They have that sense somewhere there is someone who has their back, and is looking out for them. That there is an unseen help getting them through this troubled time, and will help them be better for having gone through it. In the end whether we are right or wrong in our beliefs doesn't really matter...that answer will provide itself to us all when it's time to take the dirt nap, but in the meantime, I personally have found comfort I would not have found elsewhere when the waters got troubled in my life.

I thinks it comes down to hope maybe? When we are all alone and the world is against us, faith gives us hope where, logically, none should be found.

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November 28th, 2013, 10:50 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I respect and understand that. That's more personal spirituality than anything else.

What I don't respect is religious wackos who attempt to influence government policy. Things like:

-Give the Israeli army because the bible says so
-Ban the teaching of evolution because the bible says so
-Discriminate against gay people..
etc. etc.


November 28th, 2013, 10:57 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Blue,

Did I read that right? Give to the Israeli army because the Bible says so? Where? Get rid of the teaching of Evolution, because the Bible says so? Again Where? Discriminate against Gay people?

I understand your Anti-religion bent! NEWSFLASH, I AGREE WITH YOU. I AM ANTI-RELIGION. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times over, I don't want to introduce ANYONE to rules, and regulations, traditions and do this do that. I WANT to introduce you to a man/God who's changed my life. There IS a difference. But that's another point.

Israel, the Jews, have been God's chosen people since the beginning. They were called OUT of the land of the Chaldeans (modern day Iraq) and set aside for a purpose. They are the ONLY race of people to survive as an INTACT people since antiquity. They have not intermingled nor lost their identity. Persians, Hittites, Perusites, Philistines and so on, no longer exist. And Scripture does say, if you Bless Israel you will be blessed, and if you curse you will be cursed and so on. But let's look at what Israel HAS done for the good of the people around them since being back in their homeland? Medical care and technology, farm lands that are BLOOMING, and much more. And Israelis don't board buses and blow themselves up, killing innocent women, children, and non-combatants. But that all leads to a corrupt Muslim thinking anyway...

Ban teaching evolution? Not sure where you got that one from, but it might be out there. However, from all of those EQUAL RIGHTS crowd, why is there NO EQUAL RIGHTS for teaching Intelligent Design? Where's the tolerance there? Yeah, it doesn't exist, so there really is a misconstrued perspective here, sorry.

Discriminate against Gay people: I AGREE WITH YOU. Many Christians are so SADLY mistaken in how they are handling these scenarios. If we would love more and fight less, the chance exists that we could work out the differences without the negativity. As a man who is saved by grace, I realize that I am a sinner! I have sinned in more ways that you can count, I guarantee it, and if I shared my personal sins I'd be a pariah in many Christian circles. Not that they are disgusting, but because all sin is disgusting. BUT, my sin, and the fact that I'm saved by grace allows me to be sensitive to others who walk that same path, and I can minister to them as the Lord leads. I have been saying for a LONG TIME, that as a Blood Bought Born Again Christian, I have no rights! So I have nothing to defend! What I do have is a responsibility to love, and minister as I'm led! Can you see the difference between your perspective on Christianity as YOU understand it, and what I'm talking about? Just asking.

fellas, here is a link to a podcast I was able to do back in August. I hope you'll give it a listen, and I come in about the 20 minute mark. It's a good listen all the way through... http://themasculinejourney.com/TheMascu ... e_Sun.html

Here's a link to the book I've been blessed to write and open to the market that describes many of life's circumstances from a different perspective. I hope you'll check it out.
HAPPY EARLY THANKSGIVING!

Paul Sheldon is your run of the mill, common man, whom the Lord has led through a wide variety of circumstances that are now bearing themselves out in his recent book, "A Voice from the Pews: Insights from a Common Man". Realizing that not everyone is a professional Pastor, Mr. Sheldon sought to share many of the word pictures and perspectives that the Lord has given him, that cover a wide variety of topics. It is his hope that you'll be able to identify with the topics from which he speaks, and draw closer in your own walk with the Lord, based upon being able to see the circumstances of our individual lives from a different perspective. So pull up a chair, sit back, and let's listen to "A Voice from the Pews: Insights from a Common Man"

BARNES AND NOBLES IN BATTLE CREEK WILL BE HOSTING A BOOK SIGNING IN JANUARY! Date TBD

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A ... =VAQF0pLP0

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


November 28th, 2013, 12:54 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I thought this was VERY interesting, especially since it came from Paul Harvey in 1965. Please take the 3 minutes to listen to it and see how the very things he talked about have come to pass. It's very interesting how he talks about many of the discussions we've had in this room, and he did this from 1965. 48 years, and a generation ago. Probably right at the height of the fall of our society because of the age of enlightenment.

See what you think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rysHrMClDE

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 11th, 2013, 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
WarEr4Christ wrote:
I thought this was VERY interesting, especially since it came from Paul Harvey in 1965. Please take the 3 minutes to listen to it and see how the very things he talked about have come to pass. It's very interesting how he talks about many of the discussions we've had in this room, and he did this from 1965. 48 years, and a generation ago. Probably right at the height of the fall of our society because of the age of enlightenment.

See what you think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rysHrMClDE


If I were the Devil, I would convince the world that my word was the word of God. I'd create huge organizations to promote my words and convince others it was the truth - through force if necessary. I'd ensure man felt my words "in his heart", that would give me the control and power over him that I seek. I disguise this control of his free will with words like "love" make him think my lies were the "truth". I'd make him follow my way for his entire human life without any way of verifying if it was really true with a promise of eternal life that he could never cash in.

Perhaps that is just me. Let me ask you this, if you were the Devil who would you pretend to be? What character(s) would you create to control and influence man? What means would you try to do this? If I was the Devil, I would be so bold as to say "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves" to throw you off my scent.

If I were the Devil, I'd be full of mystery instead of the truth. That way, man fills in the "mystery" part for you and the truth never has to come out.

If I were the Devil, I'd create an army of believers who seek to reinforce my message instead of seeking out the truth.

If I were the Devil, I'd create religion and worship because a real God would have no interest in those because he wouldn't have the ego of the Devil. I create a "word" so full of interpretation that no truth could really be ascertained.

If I were the Devil, I'd sit back now and see all the distractions I've caused man over the years through false worship and smile down upon thee. I'd laugh at all the things I'd caused "in the name of God". I'd create Paul Harvey and his message because if you sprinkle in just enough to hit a cord, the lamb will follow you blindly to the slaughterhouse. I'd tell you all these distractions were bad, but tempt enough of you to create "economies of scale" within the human race.

If I were the Devil, I'd pit you against one another in petty differences with the illusion of choice. You would fight over Coke and Pepsi, without ever seeing that both parties support my agenda.

If I were the Devil, I'd infiltrate your heart and make you believe I was God and you were doing my will. If I was the Devil, I'd try to create a world were people blindly believe things to whom the "truth" is my own teachings.

If I were the Devil, I'd have all those that opposed my words viewed as the "Devil" - this act of misdirection is so genius in its simplicity that very few could actually decipher it.

If I were the Devil, I'd create a world in which some of the most basic human instincts and urges would be labeled as sin. Want to procreate - sin. Want to eat an apple - sin. Want to bet on a football game - sin. Want to "fill in the blank" - sin. I'd then make man suffer for his wants and desires, but then tell him if he believes in me (or who I pretend to be), that those sins are "overlooked" and you will be welcomed into my kingdom.

I'd create a world where we "judged" our fellow man more than helping him... I'd create a world where if my rules weren't followed, there would be an illusion of eternal punishment. I'd create a world with lots of pain and suffering, but with my distractions only my creation of the false devil (you know, the hot red guy with horns and a tail - lol) gets the blame and I (pretending to be your God) only gets the glory - what a deal...

If I were the Devil I'd create a world in which man believes rather than thinks for himself.

Question is, who do you "believe" thinks more like the Devil - this Paul or that Paul?

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December 11th, 2013, 6:33 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Quote:
If I were the Devil, I'd be full of mystery instead of the truth. That way, man fills in the "mystery" part for you and the truth never has to come out.

If I were the Devil, I'd create an army of believers who seek to reinforce my message instead of seeking out the truth.

If I were the Devil, I'd create religion and worship because a real God would have no interest in those because he wouldn't have the ego of the Devil. I create a "word" so full of interpretation that no truth could really be ascertained.
Quote:

First, let me ask you what your definition of truth is? Because you are making an assumption based upon your 2000 plus years post Jesus, that what was said, done, and experienced by those that were there, is untrue.

Second, you are mixing 2000 plus years of Religious Intervention from Christianity (There IS a difference) Prior to the 3rd Century Christianity existed according to Acts 2: 42 - 45, "42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need." About the 3rd Century, the rise of the church via Constantine removed the WORD from the people, and centralized it into a Church with a hierarchy and leadership that created a class difference. See the Catholic Model.

Third, you are making assumptions based upon an outside perspective. Your familiarity with Christianity is based upon a broken religious model (see #2) that is NOT Christianity, but IS Religion. Again, there is a difference. One is relationally driven between God and man through Jesus Christ, the other is based upon works, ie. traditions, rituals, canned prayers, canned sermons, rules and regulations meant to keep the "flock" in line.

Quote:
If I were the Devil, I'd sit back now and see all the distractions I've caused man over the years through false worship and smile down upon thee. I'd laugh at all the things I'd caused "in the name of God". I'd create Paul Harvey and his message because if you sprinkle in just enough to hit a cord, the lamb will follow you blindly to the slaughterhouse. I'd tell you all these distractions were bad, but tempt enough of you to create "economies of scale" within the human race.

If I were the Devil, I'd pit you against one another in petty differences with the illusion of choice. You would fight over Coke and Pepsi, without ever seeing that both parties support my agenda.

If I were the Devil, I'd infiltrate your heart and make you believe I was God and you were doing my will. If I was the Devil, I'd try to create a world were people blindly believe things to whom the "truth" is my own teachings.

If I were the Devil, I'd have all those that opposed my words viewed as the "Devil" - this act of misdirection is so genius in its simplicity that very few could actually decipher it.

If I were the Devil, I'd create a world in which some of the most basic human instincts and urges would be labeled as sin. Want to procreate - sin. Want to eat an apple - sin. Want to bet on a football game - sin. Want to "fill in the blank" - sin. I'd then make man suffer for his wants and desires, but then tell him if he believes in me (or who I pretend to be), that those sins are "overlooked" and you will be welcomed into my kingdom.


Fourth, you are again making assumptions that there is no devil to influence through deception, deceit, trickery, and slight of hand. The Devil does not need to corrupt 100% of the truth to make it a lie, he just needs anything less than 100%. So if you were in a spaceship returning to earth, and your trajectory was off by the most minor of percentages would you return home safely? Or would you bounce into space or burn up in the atmosphere? The answer lies in the purity of the 100%, in the above example IF you don't come in at 100% of the known trajectory to return, either of the two examples happen, and both end in death.

Fifth, the petty differences you speak of are based around believers who have grown up in the broken model, and have suffered AND inflicted much harm along the years. However, if you are a blood bought born again Christian, you learn to HATE the sin, but love the sinner. So in living as a Blood Bought Born Again Christian you understand that you have NO RIGHTS to defend, you are OWNED by the one who bought you with the Blood, and so your duty is to live by HIS example. What did Jesus do? He disagreed with the religious establishment, loved the people, ministered to the people, met their needs, healed the sick, and paid a price for all humanity. Are you willing to do that?

Sixth, again you are making another assumption off of the broken model, a BBBAC makes the choice not to argue, not to fight, but to love, and serve; by following the example of Jesus Christ. So there are no disagreements, no arguing, only a constant learning to sacrifice self, and the perceived rights to self, that are encountered everyday. Grace is the rule, and love is the fuel...

Seventh, sins aren't overlooked, they're paid for. Our basic human instincts are born out of a corrupted flesh. This returns us to another discussion in that prior to humanity, on a Spiritual level, there was a war in Heaven. Satan and his followers, fought against Michael and the armies of Heaven, they were defeated and cast to earth. Upon the entrance of man, Satan realizing he could not attack God and win, attacked those who bore His image...

I'll finish later when I have more time

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2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 12th, 2013, 11:49 am
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a
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Blood Bought Born Again Christian
and what's the difference between that and a regular, for lack of a better term, Born Again Christian?

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December 12th, 2013, 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
Blood Bought Born Again Christian is a term I coined based upon my experience and learning. I used to claim the Born Again Christian moniker but in recent months as I was in prayer the Lord began to expand my understanding. As a blood bought born again Christian, I have no rights of my own. Think in terms of a slave. A slave stands in the market and then is purchased, he now belongs to the one who bought him. Well, if you look at Romans 12:1-2, " Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

Here's another descriptor: Romans 6: 15, "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord."


So basically, it is a perspective that I'VE chosen to see my walk with Jesus as, and having made that decision, I will let you know that it does run contrary to church culture, as well as American Culture. Church culture is such as we know it, and many are busy drawing their lines in the sand and putting up their fences, and arguments. But as I learn to follow Jesus, and walk as He walked, doing as He did, I learn to cross through barriers, love as He loved, and not respond with anger and fighting, but choosing to see the person as He see's them, and choosing to love them. It is difficult, because it is a lifestyle that catches it from both sides, but it is better in my opinion, because it allows me to reach more people through love, as compared to beating people with a Bible. I hope this makes sense!

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December 12th, 2013, 12:57 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I think you missed the point of my post, I'm just giving you another path one might take as the Devil. Paul Harvey gave you another perspective, obviously one drawn from your belief system.

As for my definition of the truth, I let Webster's do the defining "the real facts about something". What I posted I would do as the Devil had nothing to do with the truth, it was a made up story of a path he might take. Could it be really what happened, unlikely.

What I really liked you said "Fourth, you are again making assumptions that there is no devil to influence through deception, deceit, trickery, and slight of hand. The Devil does not need to corrupt 100% of the truth to make it a lie, he just needs anything less than 100%."

So let me ask you this, if you belief system is less than 100% could it be the work of the Devil? Based on your own statement this has to be true. Now, if I can prove that your belief system is less than 100%, well I don't think you really want to go here... But you talk about the purity of the 100%, yet the book you worship is full of issues and errors making far less than 100% pure (this is indisputable). I'm willing to bet you will overlook those issues or make some excuse for all the errors. Sounds like the work of the devil to me...

Quote:
Seventh, sins aren't overlooked, they're paid for.
You neglect to mention how.

Quote:
Our basic human instincts are born out of a corrupted flesh.
This is such a sad way of looking at things to me, one of the big issues I have with certain faiths. Our flesh isn't corrupted, a newborn baby isn't corrupted, he/she is corrupted by man and his teaching. We are not born to hate, we are taught to hate. We aren't born to believe in Jesus, that must also be taught. Our basic human instincts are born out of evolution, rewarding those behaviors that encourage the proliferation of our species. If we were so special, we would have different "instincts" than those of other species but yet we are genetically programed very similar.

Quote:
What did Jesus do? He disagreed with the religious establishment, loved the people, ministered to the people, met their needs, healed the sick, and paid a price for all humanity. Are you willing to do that?


I'm willing to disagree with the religious establishment. That is a start. I'm certainly not will to "pay a price for all humanity" as I don't believe a "loving" God would require that of me nor his supposed son. While I'm not willing to "pay the price" as Jesus did, many other so called "Gods" did pre-Jesus yet we discount ever single one of them. Could this be the work of some wanting to "influence through deception, deceit, trickery, and slight of hand"? I mean, if not there surely would be tons of proof supporting your claims, but like those who came beforehand that proof doesn't exist. Then again, the Devil doesn't care about proof or truth. He cares about power and control - no imagine inventing something that didn't require proof and 80-90% of people would fall in line believing. Now that sounds like the work of the Devil to me.

Disclaimer - I don't actually believe in the devil! I'm just using the Christian version of him (he also has many past incarnations pre-Christianity much like Jesus - go figure) to illustrate a point. Once again, assuming you have the correct version of God and all others are wrong, you think he (God) would have come up with a more creative and original concept than stealing what many previous and obviously wrong versions of faith man had created.

Now I have difficulty imagining a God so original and creative as to create the entire universe, our planet, the wide variety of forms of life we have just here, but then have to plagiarize the stories of his own offspring and arch enemy. Those are simply one set of many different facts that leads me to a different conclusion and version of the "truth". I guess it is just very easy for you to accept your God, the most creative being of all time, just ran out of good ideas and had to start stealing ideas from us simple men a couple of thousand years ago.

BTW - I let the scientist and their detailed measurements guide me back on my rocket ship, I hope your faith/prayer get's you back on yours... :shock:

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December 12th, 2013, 1:19 pm
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Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
I'll try to take this one quote at a time, so that I don't mess it up.

Quote:
So let me ask you this, if you belief system is less than 100% could it be the work of the Devil? Based on your own statement this has to be true. Now, if I can prove that your belief system is less than 100%, well I don't think you really want to go here... But you talk about the purity of the 100%, yet the book you worship is full of issues and errors making far less than 100% pure (this is indisputable). I'm willing to bet you will overlook those issues or make some excuse for all the errors. Sounds like the work of the devil to me...



If you're looking to draw me into a discussion about Scripture and it's validity, it will not work. The reason, it's a perspective thing! You see it from your view, standing outside. I see it from my view based upon experience. I have experience along the lines that can not be described, nor substantiated by "science." Can science detect, prove or study Spirit? The very book you claim is filled with errors, is DIVINELY inspired, created by 40 individuals from all walks and educations, from 4 separate continents, over roughly 1600 years. It is the biggest seller in human history, most copied, and still it remains true to form. Although there are now versions translated to enhance learning and such.

I'm not going to overlook said issues, because I know HOW to read it, and I know HOW to let the Spirit lead me through said reading.

2. Sins are paid for by the Blood of Jesus Christ. Are you ready for the history lesson?
1. Genesis 1: 26-27, "God said let US make man in OUR image, male and female He made them." The God (title not person) of Relationships, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, forming the trinity but acting in submission according to purpose. (another discussion maybe) made man FOR relationship. Angel's were already in existence at this point in time. God created a being that had complete free will, so the right of choice is there to accept or deny if man so chooses. This brings in the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This was the tree Adam was supposed to avoid, but yet it was still kept there.
2. Genesis 3: Eve is tempted by Lucifer, in the garden, in Adam's presence. Eve's deceived by Lucifer, "Did God REALLY SAY....." Then Eve, not being directly given instruction by God, embellished God's instruction. Adam remained silent, and did not defend Eve. (Again another discussion about failure of man).
3. Genesis 3 again I believe: Adam and Eve are now aware of Good and Evil, they attempt to cover their nakedness with "fig leaves". God searches for Adam and Eve, whom He used to WALK WITH IN THE GARDEN, and THEY TALKED FACE TO FACE. Now SIN has been brought forth by Adam and Eve because they did not keep God's requirement. Sin brings a penalty, death. Because of their current position, they must now be covered. God takes SKINS of animals and makes coverings, the first NOTED shedding of Blood in the Bible.
4. From that time forth, as a covering for sin, Blood is required of a PURE sacrifice. Lambs were chosen for and needed to meet the standard in purity of color and health. The blood was to be shed and their also needed to be a "scapegoat" in later years that received the penalty due the person(s).
5. This set the stage for Abraham, who later had to sacrifice his son Isaac because God said so. At the very moment Abraham was to sacrifice the son of promise, God intervenes and provides a sacrifice, giving Abraham his son back. Again, setting the stage for years later.
6. Years later, Mary is a young virgin bride, due to be married. In a vision she receives the promise, and the Holy Spirit comes upon, (don't be nasty, it was a physical change done by a Spiritual being, nothing sexual). So you have one part God, one part human. Therefore, Jesus is born being completely man, but without the SIN NATURE as passed down by the father. His Father, divinely inspired his birth.
7. Jesus lives his life, demonstrates who He is, and what He is therefore. At the appointed time he fulfills ALL of the previous prophecies about Him, some in Isaiah and elsewhere I believe. He then dies a death that is described in Psalms as well. The shedding of His innocent blood was the LAST sacrifice required by God for the forgiveness of Sin.
8. This forgiveness is a free gift open to anyone who wishes to receive. Jesus offers, we receive, it's free, no strings attached.

Next Quote:
Quote:
This is such a sad way of looking at things to me, one of the big issues I have with certain faiths. Our flesh isn't corrupted, a newborn baby isn't corrupted, he/she is corrupted by man and his teaching. We are not born to hate, we are taught to hate. We aren't born to believe in Jesus, that must also be taught. Our basic human instincts are born out of evolution, rewarding those behaviors that encourage the proliferation of our species. If we were so special, we would have different "instincts" than those of other species but yet we are genetically programed very similar.

Because of Adam and Eve's failure a sin nature was born IN man, because of the curse that was instituted upon man, for the failure and rebellion in the garden. This is where we began our downfall and process of dying. Notice the ages slide increasingly downward from Adam to present day. Unbelievable? Understood, but a perfect being (adam and eve) having now sinned, are infected with the penalty of death, and so that perfection fades over time. Make sense?

I'll need more time to get back to the rest, but I will get back to them.

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 12th, 2013, 3:17 pm
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Location: Elkhart, In.
Post Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.
For the record, I want to say thank you Pablo for allowing me to dig deep and provide the information I've learned along the way. We may not agree and I completely understand that, and respect your perspective, but I also appreciate the challenge in having to work to get the information across. Please do not assume there are any condescending tones in the above responses, (especially as it relates to a history lesson) none were meant in what I said. I will try to stop back by this evening and finish up my perspective on this. Thanks again....

_________________
2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."


December 12th, 2013, 5:39 pm
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