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 Lose to 6 FGs? 
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Post Lose to 6 FGs?
Are you ****ing kidding me?!

Flacco played a horrendous game. Worse than Stafford.

Wow. Just wow.


December 17th, 2013, 2:36 am
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
Blueskies wrote:
Are you ****ing kidding me?!

Flacco played a horrendous game. Worse than Stafford.

Wow. Just wow.

Well he didn't throw it directly to the defender.....twice.

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December 17th, 2013, 3:02 am
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
Blueskies wrote:
Are you ****ing kidding me?!

Flacco played a horrendous game. Worse than Stafford.

Wow. Just wow.


Flacco played a horrendous game? How so? Did he put the ball into the hands of the defense three times? No. Did he fail to move his team into scoring position? No. All that Flacco failed to do was put the ball in the end zone.

Flacco has a Super Bowl ring, and an MVP in that game. Stafford has excuses and a look of confusion on his face. I'd take the former.

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December 17th, 2013, 11:31 am
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
You're right. For some reason when I posted this I forgot about the INTs.

Flacco outplayed Stafford, but it was duel of extreme incompetence. The whole time I was thinking, "If this guy was actually accurate, the Lions would be down by double-digits."


December 17th, 2013, 11:43 am
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
Blueskies wrote:
You're right. For some reason when I posted this I forgot about the INTs.

Flacco outplayed Stafford, but it was duel of extreme incompetence. The whole time I was thinking, "If this guy was actually accurate, the Lions would be down by double-digits."


I can agree with that. Flacco definitely didn't have his best game. But his ability to avoid the rush and make some plays on the run is what put them in FG range. And yes, the Ravens definitely got help from the officials. But as I've said before, good teams don't put themselves in a position where one mistake by anyone can change the outcome.

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December 17th, 2013, 3:51 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
Wags,

I'm curious how often good teams get these kind of calls? It's hard to beat two teams on the field, the opposing and the refs. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but Detroit really seems to be in the spotlight of the NFL. The refs, the Executives that can impose unwarranted fines for unflagged offenses, (my perspective) the lack of ESPN coverage post game even when the Lions do well. (I've told this to my wife for a while. In watching the post game coverages, the will tra la la on othere teams across the country, and as soon as it gets to the Lions, it's either commercial time, or some brief snippet and then they move on.) It just really seems like the Lions have a target on their back, but again that's my perspective.

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December 18th, 2013, 9:23 am
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Wags,

I'm curious how often good teams get these kind of calls? It's hard to beat two teams on the field, the opposing and the refs. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but Detroit really seems to be in the spotlight of the NFL. The refs, the Executives that can impose unwarranted fines for unflagged offenses, (my perspective) the lack of ESPN coverage post game even when the Lions do well. (I've told this to my wife for a while. In watching the post game coverages, the will tra la la on othere teams across the country, and as soon as it gets to the Lions, it's either commercial time, or some brief snippet and then they move on.) It just really seems like the Lions have a target on their back, but again that's my perspective.

It's because you focus on the Lions. being a Fantasy Football fanatic I watch a TON of games, and it's actually discouraging how often HORRIBLE calls and non-calls are being made. I actually hope that central reviews also lead to putting a ref in the press booth who can look at plays and if something obvious is noticed BEFORE the ball is placed back on the turf that they will be able to call down to the field and overturn the REALLY BAD and REALLY OBVIOUS missed/bad calls. I dont think it would slow down the game one bit. they would have about 3 seconds to look at it, so the questionable calls would still stand, but it would put a backup system in place for the calls like the Durham non call.

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December 18th, 2013, 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
regularjoe12 wrote:
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Wags,

I'm curious how often good teams get these kind of calls? It's hard to beat two teams on the field, the opposing and the refs. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but Detroit really seems to be in the spotlight of the NFL. The refs, the Executives that can impose unwarranted fines for unflagged offenses, (my perspective) the lack of ESPN coverage post game even when the Lions do well. (I've told this to my wife for a while. In watching the post game coverages, the will tra la la on othere teams across the country, and as soon as it gets to the Lions, it's either commercial time, or some brief snippet and then they move on.) It just really seems like the Lions have a target on their back, but again that's my perspective.

It's because you focus on the Lions. being a Fantasy Football fanatic I watch a TON of games, and it's actually discouraging how often HORRIBLE calls and non-calls are being made. I actually hope that central reviews also lead to putting a ref in the press booth who can look at plays and if something obvious is noticed BEFORE the ball is placed back on the turf that they will be able to call down to the field and overturn the REALLY BAD and REALLY OBVIOUS missed/bad calls. I dont think it would slow down the game one bit. they would have about 3 seconds to look at it, so the questionable calls would still stand, but it would put a backup system in place for the calls like the Durham non call.

Yep, exactly. Having lived outside of Michigan for over 10 years now, I've watched a ton of other teams' games, and the officiating is horrible across the board. I've never noticed the Lions getting any worse treatment than anyone else. As regularjoe12 said, it only seems that way because most people here mostly watch/pay close attention to the Lions.

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December 18th, 2013, 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
Almost every game has some questionable or bad officiating, but that wasnt the question. The question is if there is a bias that these bad calls affect one team more than others. Even if it isnt the Lions we are talking about.. and to me their is no doubt. It is not as bad as the calls/no calls for stars in the NBA, but there are definetly teams that get flagged unfairly more than others, and others that get away with poop.

Eagles game anyone? 9 penalties on lions (2 blatantly bogus agaisnt, 1 blatant no call also agaisnt eagles [out of endzone]) and just 1 ont he Eagles. In A Blizzard? etc.

The Lions arent the only team tog et "overly victimized" but they are a good example of it, and it is obvious.


December 18th, 2013, 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
DJ-B wrote:
Almost every game has some questionable or bad officiating, but that wasnt the question. The question is if there is a bias that these bad calls affect one team more than others. Even if it isnt the Lions we are talking about.. and to me their is no doubt. It is not as bad as the calls/no calls for stars in the NBA, but there are definetly teams that get flagged unfairly more than others, and others that get away with poop.

Eagles game anyone? 9 penalties on lions (2 blatantly bogus agaisnt, 1 blatant no call also agaisnt eagles [out of endzone]) and just 1 ont he Eagles. In A Blizzard? etc.

The Lions arent the only team tog et "overly victimized" but they are a good example of it, and it is obvious.


I'll take your conspiracy theory one step farther. How does a team have the fewest in the league for a year, then in the offseason gets busted for the biggest bounty hunting scandal in NFL history?...lookin at you New Orleans....

thats is all i need to know to know the refs ARE indeed biased. to at least some extent anyhow.

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December 18th, 2013, 5:33 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
There is no doubt that in ANY professional sports, certain players and to a less extent certain teams, are going to build a reputation for making penalties. If a player starts to get called for personal fouls, the refs are going to be looking for that player to commit one. And if they see the slightest thing even reminiscent of a personal foul, they are going to flag them.

The only way to stop that is either fix the reputation, or take the human element out of officiating the games.

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December 18th, 2013, 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
It's human nature to make judgement calls based somewhat on reputation or what we expect to see.

I can give many examples of how I do this. One example, I have coached my son's soccer team and most of the boys for 3+ years now. Tomorrow night I will be running practice, we will have about 13-14 kids there. Some of my forwards/midfielders are very clever little players, they fake defenders out and push the ball by them as they head into space. I have one particular defender who is the biggest kid on my team and has a slower reaction time than the rest. I've seen him "hack" guys who get by him, I know this in the back of my mind. Now, I can't always keep my eye on 14 young boys at one time so if I see a talented player grabbing his knee anywhere near this player - my mind quickly fills in what happened, true or not. My mind doesn't fill it in the same for other players.

This happens every day at work as well, I have been a manager for the past 20 straight years. I often have to make quick judgement calls based on limited information. While I try to leave bias out of the equation, my mind still fills in the blank about people often based on my perceptions of them. I see this when one of my employees is looking to hire someone as well, it is called the halo effect. We judge a persons character based upon one or two dominant things we learn about them.

We see what we expect to see. Reputation or preconceived notions do play a part, how can they not. For those of you with "strong faiths", I see this all the time as you mind jumps to conclusions based on your convictions - credit goes to the almighty, blame goes to devil. I see it with teachers and their students. I see it with cops and the "person of interest". I see it everyday, in almost every aspect of our lives. And I certainly see it with refs in every sport.

What do you expect to see when the Lions play?

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December 18th, 2013, 6:31 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
Boneheaded Penalties, Undisciplined Play and Bad Coaching.


December 18th, 2013, 6:41 pm
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
The fact is, Schwartz and Mayhew built this team, and the penalty issues can be attributed to them. Actually more Schwartz than Mayhew, but the GM has something to do with it as well. Schwartz keeps talking about the aggressive nature of the team. Aggression is often perceived as illegal activity on the football field. Combine that with some of the off-field behavior issues that will become well known to the officials, the Lions get a reputation as a bunch of over-aggressive cheaters who are obviously committing penalties when there are none that exist, and are complaining about penalties on their opponents because, afterall, they are cheaters.

Schwartz loved the idea of having a team that was viewed as being on the edge of control. He put them in the position they are in. He's never even come close to attempting to change the common view people have of this team. He embraced the 'bad boy' image, and so did some of the players, and they have gone overboard at times. Whether the reputation is deserved or not, it is a common perception. And perception is everything.

Now, that said the officials are not supposed to be biased in that way. In regards to the Durham non-call, there were TWO officials who had a clear view of what was going on, and neither threw the flag. There has been some backlash due to that non call, which is a good thing. Playoff berths were affected, and the NFL is getting an even bigger black eye over this. I doubt the NFL will ever take the human officials out of the equation. But hopefully they do one of three things....either put even more officials on the field, make sure you get officials who are MUCH younger, or make EVERYTHING reviewable to get it right. And I mean EVERYTHING. If some idiot official calls holding, it should be auto reviewed to make sure it was an actual hold. On game changing/scoring plays, any non-calls should be equally as reversible as a call that was wrong.

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December 19th, 2013, 12:45 am
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Post Re: Lose to 6 FGs?
Penalties hurt, no doubt, but are extremely overrated.

The Ravens were the most penalized team in football last year. They won the Superbowl. The Raiders in the 80s built a dynasty on dirty play.

You can win with an aggressive, penalty-drawing team. What has really killed the Lions is not the penalties, but the turnovers. The Lion's turnover ratio is -13. If that was 0, the Lions would be 10-4 right now and everyone on this board would be expecting them to win their final two games.


December 19th, 2013, 12:43 pm
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