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 Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go 
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
liontrax wrote:
Agreed, Mayhew did build this roster.


I find it funny that Schwartz seems to get no credit for the roster overhaul. Remember, he started out in scouting/personnel. Did Mayhew sit in KVB's driveway until midnight hit for FA? Did Mayhew coach Ziggy or Warford at the Sr. Bowl?

Schwartz has his fingerprints all over the personnel on this team. The Lions have upgraded from one of the worst rosters in the history of the NFL to one of the most talent laden teams in the league. Let's give the coach a little bit of credit and realize we could actually take a bit of a step back in terms of talent evaluation going forward.

Not saying the Lions don't need to change coaches, the writing is on the wall should they miss the playoffs. Sometimes, however, you take the good things for granted and don't realize until they are gone as you are focused on the perceived negatives.

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December 20th, 2013, 5:38 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
well said Pablo

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December 20th, 2013, 7:39 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Pablo wrote:
liontrax wrote:
Agreed, Mayhew did build this roster.


I find it funny that Schwartz seems to get no credit for the roster overhaul. Remember, he started out in scouting/personnel. Did Mayhew sit in KVB's driveway until midnight hit for FA? Did Mayhew coach Ziggy or Warford at the Sr. Bowl?

Schwartz has his fingerprints all over the personnel on this team. The Lions have upgraded from one of the worst rosters in the history of the NFL to one of the most talent laden teams in the league. Let's give the coach a little bit of credit and realize we could actually take a bit of a step back in terms of talent evaluation going forward.

Not saying the Lions don't need to change coaches, the writing is on the wall should they miss the playoffs. Sometimes, however, you take the good things for granted and don't realize until they are gone as you are focused on the perceived negatives.


Who makes the final decisions Pablo, when it comes to who gets signed or not? Who makes the final decision on who gets drafted? Schwartz is NOT in charge of that. He doesn't sign the free agents, but instead was given PERMISSION to do what he did with KVB. His getting insight on Ziggy Ansah was a product of his complete ineptitude as a coach and leading his roster to a stellar 4-12 record in 2012. We are supposed to applaud him for keeping his eyes open and seeing just how talented and coachable Ansah was? Sorry, don't think so.

I understand that Schwartz has some say so, as does every coach and scout on the staff. But the addition and subtraction of talent is the final say so of the GM, and therefore that's who either gets the credit or the criticism.

I agree that Schwartz has his fingerprints on this team. That's exactly why they have underachieved the past two seasons.

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December 20th, 2013, 10:32 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
BillySims wrote:
njroar wrote:
IF they win the next two AND GB loses one AND Chicago loses one. Winning out doesn't guarantee anything.

Mayhew wanted Schwartz gone last year, but Jr. wouldn't pay the buyout, as reported by ESPN wednesday. Even if they make the playoffs, I think Schwartz is gone unless they win 6 in a row, which they haven't done since 1995, and make it to the Super Bowl.


And ESPN knows this how? I think they are making news now just to pile on and have something to talk about.


Ed Werder reported it from a league source. As much as I hate the "must be first" competition among the sports journalists out there, Werder doesn't just spread junk news. It's also curious that after he said it, none of the Detroit media scheduled him for an interview. Sounds more like the source called in that he was getting pressure and to put a lid on it. No retraction or denials either.

Tim Twentyman, the mouthpiece of the Lions didn't even deny it. When people tweeted "Schwartz needs to be fire" He simply replied, "Many feel the same way." When the official news voice of the Lions is saying it, there's something to it.

As to the coach and the roster... c'mon man. The coach coaches, he doesn't micromanage the roster. That's the GM's job. Coaches can have input, but unless they're also the GM like Parcells, all final decisions are coming from GM with input from scouts. Coaches get say in who's playing week to week. Not who gets signed, for how much, and who's finally drafted.


December 20th, 2013, 11:01 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
UK Lion wrote:
I'm happy to give Schwartz a pass on his first two years here. Calculating his "batting average" based on those seasons is unfair, IMO.

10-6, 4-12 and 9-7 (on the hypothetical that's where we end up) isn't same old Lions to me (although that may be because my "formative years" as a Lions fan were the Millen years). Is it good enough to keep his job? IMO, if Schwartz compiles that record he's been an average NFL coach - in the playoffs one year, miss by a lot another, contend another is about the batting average an average NFL team should hit (based on 12 out of 32 teams a year making the playoffs).


I agree that you really can't factor in Schwartz' first two years here, as that was not even a process of rebuilding. It was more a process of demolition, then rebuilding. He had nothing really to start with.

So I look at it this way, in his 10-6 season, he started 5-0. Since then, his team has gone 16-25 up to this point. 16-26 if you want to count the playoff loss. But during that time, most everyone agrees this roster has improved in adding talent. So you tell me, why should the Lions continue to accept this level of production. The NFL is a win now league. Even if you dismiss his first two seasons AND add on the five wins, he's still less than .500 as a coach here. He's simply not getting the job done. He's had more than enough time, and this roster isn't getting younger. Calvin is showing signs of wear and tear. I'd say he has one, maybe two more elite seasons in him, and then he's going to be falling off very quickly. Reggie Bush doesn't have long to be a difference maker either. They either get lucky and somehow reload with equitable talent, or they get dismantled. Bringing in a new head coach with a talented roster DOES make a difference. It happened in San Fran, in New Orleans, in Seattle and in KC. Why can't it happen here?

UK Lion wrote:
The NFL is a damn tough league. Everything is geared for teams to be lifted off the bottom, and dragged down from the top. Is compiling an average record so bad the guy must go? Are we so confident we can get someone better? Doesn't the history of the NFL show that chopping and changing constantly is not the way to build a successful franchise?


While the NFL may want parity in the league, they don't get it. That's due to several different factors. There is a reason why some teams are perennial playoff teams and others aren't. Quarterback is probably the most significant reason why a team remains competitive. If you believe Stafford has the potential to be one of those elites, then the Lions have that taken care of. Leadership in the locker room. I'm not sure the Lions really have this. They supposedly have a "Leadership Council" made up of players, but unless ALL the players are buying into that leadership, and the system the coaches have in place, then it's not worth anything. Lastly, the coaching. Most of the teams that are constantly winning their division, or competing at a high level, have great coaches. Look at San Fran and KC, as examples. They both had talented rosters, but the coaching wasn't that good. Harbaugh arrives at SF, using basically the same roster and close to the same systems, and the team becomes a powerhouse. Alex Smith is not what most would define as an elite level QB. But that roster had leaders on it, and they all bought into the system, or were let go. Now look at KC. Same thing. Talented roster with some natural leaders on it. Suspect QB play was corrected with the addition of Alex Smith. He plays within the system and isn't asked to carry the team. Reid comes in and using basically the same roster, they are going from a 2-14 team to already being a playoff lock. THAT is what I call coaching.

In the last three seasons, in the second half of the season, the Lions have gone 4-4, 0-8, and now are 2-4 in the second half of this season. Good teams peak in the second half of the season, not start out strong then die at the end. It can't be blamed on injuries. And if the Lions are just 'tired' then they aren't doing enough to be in shape.

I can't exactly put my finger on what Schwartz is or isn't doing. But I do know that he hasn't been very good in game or clock management. I would have hoped that over the course of the past five seasons he would have done a better job year after year. He hasn't. I would have hoped that the coaching staff would learn how to make better half time or in game adjustments. Sometimes they do a good job of that, but other times their actions or lack of actions are mind boggling. The second half of the Philly game was a great indication of another team making an adjustment and taking advantage of it, while the Lions coaching staff sat on their hands and did nothing, only to watch the Eagles decimate them.

That all falls on the head coach. Whether it is warranted or not, that's what happens in the NFL and in big business. You can't fire the whole team. Therefore, the coach needs to go.

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December 20th, 2013, 11:01 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
the only year im willing to not count is Schwartz first season. in the 2nd season there were major injuries and they limped to the 2-10 start losing many winnable games but it seemed they figured something out when they won 4 in a row with backup QBs and then started the 2011 season on fire. since then the lions have reverted to an extremely frustrating version of football filled with mistakes and major blunders.


December 20th, 2013, 11:11 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
The Legend wrote:
the lions have reverted to an extremely frustrating version of football filled with mistakes and major blunders.

Coaches are to blame for this if it's repetitive. Nobody else.

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December 21st, 2013, 10:36 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
49ers wrote:
The Legend wrote:
the lions have reverted to an extremely frustrating version of football filled with mistakes and major blunders.

Coaches are to blame for this if it's repetitive. Nobody else.


We'll look what the cat dragged in. LOL


December 21st, 2013, 11:09 am
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Adam S of ESPN is saying that the Lions are shopping around for coaches, and that Penn State's Coach is on the list. Thoughts?

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December 22nd, 2013, 4:42 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
WarEr4Christ wrote:
Adam S of ESPN is saying that the Lions are shopping around for coaches, and that Penn State's Coach is on the list. Thoughts?

He worked his way up through the Patriots organization to be offensive coordinator, and served in that capacity during one of their super bowl runs. Then he took over Penn State and made them relevant despite their sanctions. I'd say he's shown success at every level so far, and seems to be a strong candidate. On that basis alone I'd be interested. I have to look more into him to get a full opinion, but at a surface level, he seems like a solid candidate.

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December 22nd, 2013, 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
The fact that he worked for the Patriots is actually a strike against him. I don't think a single Belichek disciple has become a good coach.


December 22nd, 2013, 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Blueskies wrote:
The fact that he worked for the Patriots is actually a strike against him. I don't think a single Belichek disciple has become a good coach.

confusing the cause and effect

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December 22nd, 2013, 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Can we change the thread title?

Schwartz needs to go, Lions do not have the talent?

Stafford was absolute crap again today. 6-3. We would have made the playoffs if we'd played Shaun Hill from then on. F*cking awful. 20-13 up, 8 total yards, what's the one thing that can kill us? Thanks Matt, really appreciate you f*cking us over again.


December 22nd, 2013, 8:47 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
BillySims wrote:
49ers wrote:
The Legend wrote:
the lions have reverted to an extremely frustrating version of football filled with mistakes and major blunders.

Coaches are to blame for this if it's repetitive. Nobody else.


We'll look what the cat dragged in. LOL

lol. If you look at the "who's online" section of these forums, I'm on quite a bit. I just don't say anything because "it's none of my business" and most of my opinions went against that of the majority. I never liked Schwartz and thought he should be fired. I said that prior to the start of this season. He's the kind of coach you need to get you out of the basement, not the kind to take you to the promised land.

And now that my opinion seems to be more popular, yeah I'll pop my head back in the door. :P

I also don't think the Lions have as much talent as some people here think they do. I mean, they have a STUD WR and a really good QB... good linebacker and D-line.... but it ends there. I hope this team gets enough talent in free agency and fix the rest through the draft. CJ deserves a damn chance!

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December 22nd, 2013, 8:49 pm
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Post Re: Lions Have the Talent, Schwartz Needs to Go
Yup, don't care about the $12M, so the fords can't get another Ivory backscratcher. Schwartz needs to pack his office tonight and be escorted off the premises.

Inexcusable that you play it so safe with 27 secs, 2 timeouts, and you need 20-30 yards for a FG.

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December 22nd, 2013, 8:50 pm
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