View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently October 2nd, 2014, 2:52 am



Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Nate done as a Lion? 
Author Message
League MVP

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 3657
Location: WSU
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
well with boldin - the cardinals did draft a 1st rd WR the same year as him, the infamous and mostly worthless Bryant Johnson. But even when Boldin appeared to be a big time WR, it didnt stop them from grabbing Larry Fitzgerald the next season. Young and Broyles werent necessarily stupid picks but both have turned out to be major letdowns and the Lions have to go solidify the WR position if they want to give Stafford a chance.


January 3rd, 2014, 12:30 am
Profile
3rd Round Selection

Joined: October 19th, 2005, 1:24 pm
Posts: 1149
Location: Nottingham, England
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
The Legend wrote:
both have turned out to be major letdowns and the Lions have to go solidify the WR position if they want to give Stafford a chance.

I think M2 agrees with all of that - he's just saying (and I agree) that just because 2 2nd rd WRs have failed here recently doesn't mean another 2nd rd WR will. There's always an element of chance/luck in drafting, and letting previous misfortune influence your decision making in the future would be a mistake. When it comes to drafting, IMO it's more important to look at the process than the result.

Could Titus Young have been a good NFL player if he didn't have mental health issues? Absolutely, I think so - he showed more than enough when healthy to believe that. Should we have been able to tell at the time we drafted him that those issues would arise? I don't think so. So I'm happy with the process that led to him being drafted. Similar with Broyles (just substitute physical health issues). So I'm happy if this front office goes through a similar process to select another 2nd rd WR in the upcomming draft - those past two failures don't mean the next one will be (any more than our history with Johnson, Williams or Williams meant that CJ was destined to be a failure).


January 3rd, 2014, 5:45 am
Profile
League MVP

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 3657
Location: WSU
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
both have turned out to be major letdowns and the Lions have to go solidify the WR position if they want to give Stafford a chance.

I think M2 agrees with all of that - he's just saying (and I agree) that just because 2 2nd rd WRs have failed here recently doesn't mean another 2nd rd WR will. There's always an element of chance/luck in drafting, and letting previous misfortune influence your decision making in the future would be a mistake. When it comes to drafting, IMO it's more important to look at the process than the result.

Could Titus Young have been a good NFL player if he didn't have mental health issues? Absolutely, I think so - he showed more than enough when healthy to believe that. Should we have been able to tell at the time we drafted him that those issues would arise? I don't think so. So I'm happy with the process that led to him being drafted. Similar with Broyles (just substitute physical health issues). So I'm happy if this front office goes through a similar process to select another 2nd rd WR in the upcomming draft - those past two failures don't mean the next one will be (any more than our history with Johnson, Williams or Williams meant that CJ was destined to be a failure).


i agree with all that but im saying you cant afford to settle for a guy with blemishes on the track record this time. they either find a way to get Sammy Watkins or Mike Evans in Rd 1 or they go after Eric Decker or a thoroughly evaluated Hakeem Nicks as a free agent. Calvin Johnson is deteriorating before our eyes, Bush is unreliable, Pettigrew and Burleson appear to have run out of time.

are there plenty of solid players coming out in the 2nd and 3rd round at WR? sure there are but time and time again Mayhew falls in love with the wrong prospects there.

History lesson:

2009 Draft: 82nd pick Derrick Williams, Detroit Lions
84th pick Mike Wallace, Pittsburgh Steelers

2011 Draft : 44th pick Titus Young, Detroit Lions
57th pick Mikel Leshoure, Detroit Lions (trade up)
58th pick Torrey Smith, Baltimore Ravens
64th pick Randall Cobb, Green Bay Packers
71st pick Demarco Murray, Dallas
73rd pick Stevan Ridley, NE Patriots

2012 Draft: 54th pick Ryan Broyles, Detroit Lions
63rd pick Reuben Randle, Giants
92nd pick TY Hilton, Colts

Derrick Williams wasnt even a good player at Penn State and finished his career on a downswing compared to how it started. It was a major bust of a bonus 3rd rd pick. With Young, maybe they were confident that character issues were a thing of the past but Smith and Cobb were more intriguing and more well known talents at the time of the draft. Even without the mental issues both Smith and Cobb are and were more talented than Young. I follow the draft prospects closely in the time leading up to the draft and was pretty shocked when they took Young with Smith and Cobb still on the board and then wanted to cry when GB took Cobb. The Leshoure pick, Im understanding of. The mistake was trading up for him when there was still very good value at RB left on the board and not digging anything up about LeShoure's lack of work ethic and drug issues. Broyles is a tough one, bc an ACL as an isolated injury is something that can be recovered from but the Lions didnt downgrade him for it and not yet knowing that Young was going to go off the deep end they probably werent looking for someone with Randle's outside potential or Hilton's deep speed. Then again, Mayhew does claim that he s taking BPA.


January 3rd, 2014, 9:50 am
Profile
Player of the Year - Defense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pm
Posts: 2671
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
Quote:
With Young, maybe they were confident that character issues were a thing of the past but Smith and Cobb were more intriguing and more well known talents at the time of the draft


Revisionist history. There's lots of people that considered Titus Young the third best receiver going into the draft:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6803 ... -prospects

Moreover, of the people who had Young ranked four or five, he was widely considered to be a poor man's DeSean Jackson -- a quick, speedy WR that the Lions needed to compliment big Calvin Johnson. There was also a lot of people who had Jon Baldwin ranked very high, and he's done nothing in the NFL.

Titus Young wasn't a bad pick at the time. You, personally, might've liked Cobb or Smith more, but they weren't considered to be obviously better choices.


January 3rd, 2014, 10:17 am
Profile
Hall of Fame Player
User avatar

Joined: May 7th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Posts: 7395
Location: Earth/Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
both have turned out to be major letdowns and the Lions have to go solidify the WR position if they want to give Stafford a chance.

I think M2 agrees with all of that - he's just saying (and I agree) that just because 2 2nd rd WRs have failed here recently doesn't mean another 2nd rd WR will. There's always an element of chance/luck in drafting, and letting previous misfortune influence your decision making in the future would be a mistake. When it comes to drafting, IMO it's more important to look at the process than the result.

Could Titus Young have been a good NFL player if he didn't have mental health issues? Absolutely, I think so - he showed more than enough when healthy to believe that. Should we have been able to tell at the time we drafted him that those issues would arise? I don't think so. So I'm happy with the process that led to him being drafted. Similar with Broyles (just substitute physical health issues). So I'm happy if this front office goes through a similar process to select another 2nd rd WR in the upcomming draft - those past two failures don't mean the next one will be (any more than our history with Johnson, Williams or Williams meant that CJ was destined to be a failure).


Speaking of Titus. Now that it is known that he has a chemical imbalance, (A) Is it treatable? (B) Is he undergoing treatment? (C) if he is in treatment, is it worth looking into seeing if he wants to play again?

I think he is a very good WR that is capable of being a #1 on most other teams, at least physically. Mentally, that's another story. But, if he is properly medicated? He can resume where he was before he lost his mind. And we plug a hole without breaking the bank or burning a draft pick on it.


January 3rd, 2014, 11:16 am
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 am
Posts: 9466
Location: Dallas
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
BillySims wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
both have turned out to be major letdowns and the Lions have to go solidify the WR position if they want to give Stafford a chance.

I think M2 agrees with all of that - he's just saying (and I agree) that just because 2 2nd rd WRs have failed here recently doesn't mean another 2nd rd WR will. There's always an element of chance/luck in drafting, and letting previous misfortune influence your decision making in the future would be a mistake. When it comes to drafting, IMO it's more important to look at the process than the result.

Could Titus Young have been a good NFL player if he didn't have mental health issues? Absolutely, I think so - he showed more than enough when healthy to believe that. Should we have been able to tell at the time we drafted him that those issues would arise? I don't think so. So I'm happy with the process that led to him being drafted. Similar with Broyles (just substitute physical health issues). So I'm happy if this front office goes through a similar process to select another 2nd rd WR in the upcomming draft - those past two failures don't mean the next one will be (any more than our history with Johnson, Williams or Williams meant that CJ was destined to be a failure).


Speaking of Titus. Now that it is known that he has a chemical imbalance, (A) Is it treatable? (B) Is he undergoing treatment? (C) if he is in treatment, is it worth looking into seeing if he wants to play again?

I think he is a very good WR that is capable of being a #1 on most other teams, at least physically. Mentally, that's another story. But, if he is properly medicated? He can resume where he was before he lost his mind. And we plug a hole without breaking the bank or burning a draft pick on it.


Yeah, let's bring back CRog to line up on the opposite side of him. Bringing back Titus Young would be akin to taking back your ex-girlfriend after she slept with your best friend, in front of you, and got pregnant with triplets, caught HIV and then thrown into jail for prostitution.

You gotta really love that woman to take her back Billy!

_________________
Image
LB Tweet


January 3rd, 2014, 11:29 am
Profile WWW
Hall of Fame Player
User avatar

Joined: May 7th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Posts: 7395
Location: Earth/Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
Pablo wrote:
BillySims wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
both have turned out to be major letdowns and the Lions have to go solidify the WR position if they want to give Stafford a chance.

I think M2 agrees with all of that - he's just saying (and I agree) that just because 2 2nd rd WRs have failed here recently doesn't mean another 2nd rd WR will. There's always an element of chance/luck in drafting, and letting previous misfortune influence your decision making in the future would be a mistake. When it comes to drafting, IMO it's more important to look at the process than the result.

Could Titus Young have been a good NFL player if he didn't have mental health issues? Absolutely, I think so - he showed more than enough when healthy to believe that. Should we have been able to tell at the time we drafted him that those issues would arise? I don't think so. So I'm happy with the process that led to him being drafted. Similar with Broyles (just substitute physical health issues). So I'm happy if this front office goes through a similar process to select another 2nd rd WR in the upcomming draft - those past two failures don't mean the next one will be (any more than our history with Johnson, Williams or Williams meant that CJ was destined to be a failure).


Speaking of Titus. Now that it is known that he has a chemical imbalance, (A) Is it treatable? (B) Is he undergoing treatment? (C) if he is in treatment, is it worth looking into seeing if he wants to play again?

I think he is a very good WR that is capable of being a #1 on most other teams, at least physically. Mentally, that's another story. But, if he is properly medicated? He can resume where he was before he lost his mind. And we plug a hole without breaking the bank or burning a draft pick on it.


Yeah, let's bring back CRog to line up on the opposite side of him. Bringing back Titus Young would be akin to taking back your ex-girlfriend after she slept with your best friend, in front of you, and got pregnant with triplets, caught HIV and then thrown into jail for prostitution.

You gotta really love that woman to take her back Billy!


The problem with your analogy is that Titus has a certifiable Mental disorder. He is not a cheating whore.


January 3rd, 2014, 4:37 pm
Profile
RIP Killer
User avatar

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pm
Posts: 9866
Location: Where ever I'm at now
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
BillySims wrote:
Pablo wrote:

Yeah, let's bring back CRog to line up on the opposite side of him. Bringing back Titus Young would be akin to taking back your ex-girlfriend after she slept with your best friend, in front of you, and got pregnant with triplets, caught HIV and then thrown into jail for prostitution.

You gotta really love that woman to take her back Billy!


The problem with your analogy is that Titus has a certifiable Mental disorder. He is not a cheating whore.


And some would say that the cheating whore may very well have an undiagnosed mental instability.

Titus Young has a laundry list of legal problems awaiting him if and when he can get his head on straight. The problem with someone on medication is that they have to WILLINGLY take that medication as prescribed. If that person decides they don't need the medication any longer, which often seems the case with folks who have a mental disorder, then you have to fight that battle all over again.

Would it really be worth it? I say no, particularly given the fact that other WR prospects without those problems, and equally or more talented, will be available via draft or free agency.

_________________
Driver of the 'we need a coaching change' bandwagon. Climb aboard.


January 3rd, 2014, 10:00 pm
Profile
League MVP

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pm
Posts: 3657
Location: WSU
Post Re: Nate done as a Lion?
BillySims wrote:
UK Lion wrote:
The Legend wrote:
both have turned out to be major letdowns and the Lions have to go solidify the WR position if they want to give Stafford a chance.

I think M2 agrees with all of that - he's just saying (and I agree) that just because 2 2nd rd WRs have failed here recently doesn't mean another 2nd rd WR will. There's always an element of chance/luck in drafting, and letting previous misfortune influence your decision making in the future would be a mistake. When it comes to drafting, IMO it's more important to look at the process than the result.

Could Titus Young have been a good NFL player if he didn't have mental health issues? Absolutely, I think so - he showed more than enough when healthy to believe that. Should we have been able to tell at the time we drafted him that those issues would arise? I don't think so. So I'm happy with the process that led to him being drafted. Similar with Broyles (just substitute physical health issues). So I'm happy if this front office goes through a similar process to select another 2nd rd WR in the upcomming draft - those past two failures don't mean the next one will be (any more than our history with Johnson, Williams or Williams meant that CJ was destined to be a failure).


Speaking of Titus. Now that it is known that he has a chemical imbalance, (A) Is it treatable? (B) Is he undergoing treatment? (C) if he is in treatment, is it worth looking into seeing if he wants to play again?

I think he is a very good WR that is capable of being a #1 on most other teams, at least physically. Mentally, that's another story. But, if he is properly medicated? He can resume where he was before he lost his mind. And we plug a hole without breaking the bank or burning a draft pick on it.


it really depends what the diagnosis is and the severity. if its something like bipolar disease, he could be pretty functional if he agrees to take meds but those meds have side effects and might be difficult to play pro football on them. if he has shizophrenia (he s at just about the age where that typically shows symptoms and is diagnosed) than I would say he has zero shot at pro football and less than 30% shot of being a functional human being again.


January 3rd, 2014, 11:35 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.