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 Coaching Candidates 
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
Leverage I imagine. Interviewing the whiz tomorrow in SD. We'll see.

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January 9th, 2014, 8:15 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
Just curious, has the Whiz and Gunny ever worked together?


January 9th, 2014, 11:26 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
No, they haven't.

And he interviewed today, tomorrow he interviews with Titans. I think this weekend is going to be telling. Either the Chargers lose Sunday and he's announced right away, or they win and they either announce someone else or they wait which will show Whiz is the choice.


January 9th, 2014, 11:35 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
njroar wrote:
No, they haven't.

And he interviewed today, tomorrow he interviews with Titans. I think this weekend is going to be telling. Either the Chargers lose Sunday and he's announced right away, or they win and they either announce someone else or they wait which will show Whiz is the choice.


I firmly believe that Whiz is the guy the Lions have had targeted since Schwartz was fired. All others have been interviewed to give the Lions some leverage, and to have a fall back plan in case he takes a job elsewhere. I think Caldwell is the second in line. That's just my opinion.

Personally, I don't see an issue with the Lions taking their time on this one. I don't think Gruden was ever a real option. Same with Munchak. I don't think there is genuine interest with him. The Lions don't have to be in a rush. I'd rather they got the right guy than the first readily available guy.

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January 10th, 2014, 1:05 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
Whiz's prospective team is Russ Grim and Ray Horton, so not a bad deal. Horton's a steal.


January 10th, 2014, 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
m2karateman wrote:
njroar wrote:
No, they haven't.

And he interviewed today, tomorrow he interviews with Titans. I think this weekend is going to be telling. Either the Chargers lose Sunday and he's announced right away, or they win and they either announce someone else or they wait which will show Whiz is the choice.


I firmly believe that Whiz is the guy the Lions have had targeted since Schwartz was fired. All others have been interviewed to give the Lions some leverage, and to have a fall back plan in case he takes a job elsewhere. I think Caldwell is the second in line. That's just my opinion.

Personally, I don't see an issue with the Lions taking their time on this one. I don't think Gruden was ever a real option. Same with Munchak. I don't think there is genuine interest with him. The Lions don't have to be in a rush. I'd rather they got the right guy than the first readily available guy.


I was just wondering because I don't blame Gunny for the defenses short comings. Aside from the Dline, he hasn't got much to work with. I view all of our linebackers as average at best. And he has 2 decent DB's and an average DB.


January 10th, 2014, 10:14 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
njroar wrote:
Whiz's prospective team is Russ Grim and Ray Horton, so not a bad deal. Horton's a steal.


Hopefully Grimm wouldn't be more than a position coach. Don't want him as an OC. As for Horton, he runs a 3-4 can he make the change to a 4-3? Also, he's getting looks as a HC candidate again so even if he comes here, how long would he stay?


January 11th, 2014, 1:18 am
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
Unless Whisenhunt doesn't want anything to do with Washburn I can't see them replacing him with Grimm and I hope he wouldn't bring him in as the OC. The players really like Washburn and have said that they hope he is retained. As far as Horton I think Whisenhunt would bring him in if he doesn't land anywhere else but I think he is going to lean towards Butler the LB coach from Pittsburgh. He was the guy Whisenhunt wanted to take with him to Arizona but the Steelers wouldn't let Butler out of his contract. Either way I wouldn't be surprised if you see a hybrid defense this season with a transition to more of a 3-4 style defense.


January 11th, 2014, 8:40 am
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
I've heard nothing about Whisenhunt looking to reunite with Ray Horton instead rumor is he is looking to bring in either Steelers linebacker coach Keith Butler or Ravens secondary coach Teryl Austin as defensive coordinator. I wouldn't be surprised if Horton was a management hire in Arizona.

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January 11th, 2014, 10:36 am
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
I think it's interesting that the 4 candidates the Lions interview all run 4 of the 5 offenses that currently being used in the NFL - Chip Kelly's spread being the other one.

So if the lions want to stick to the same scheme they hire Caldwell.

If they want to switch to the west coast offense they hire Kubiak.

If they want to switch to play action ball controlled offense they hire Whisenhunt.

Munchak was the only guy ran a 'balanced offense' what ever that is - shouldn't matter he interviewing to be Texans line coach a job he better suited for anyway.

I think Whisenunt's offense best suits Stafford's skill set. I'm not in favor of being back the same scheme - I think would rather have the WCO.

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January 11th, 2014, 10:46 am
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
Leo wrote:
I think it's interesting that the 4 candidates the Lions interview all run 4 of the 5 offenses that currently being used in the NFL - Chip Kelly's spread being the other one.

So if the lions want to stick to the same scheme they hire Caldwell.

If they want to switch to the west coast offense they hire Kubiak.

If they want to switch to play action ball controlled offense they hire Whisenhunt.

Munchak was the only guy ran a 'balanced offense' what ever that is - shouldn't matter he interviewing to be Texans line coach a job he better suited for anyway.

I think Whisenunt's offense best suits Stafford's skill set. I'm not in favor of being back the same scheme - I think would rather have the WCO.


Pardon my ignorance, but I have a few questions. Is Kubiak's a traditional WCO? I thought that zone blocking was a big part of it--is that just a twist on the WCO?

Also, where does the 'timing offense' run by Norv Turner and Mike Martz fit into these styles (I know that neither is currently a coach or coordinator)?

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January 11th, 2014, 12:02 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
Leo wrote:
I've heard nothing about Whisenhunt looking to reunite with Ray Horton instead rumor is he is looking to bring in either Steelers linebacker coach Keith Butler or Ravens secondary coach Teryl Austin as defensive coordinator. I wouldn't be surprised if Horton was a management hire in Arizona.


Teryl Austin is linked with Caldwell. And Horton runs a 4-3 hybrid. If you look at what he did in Cleveland, he ran a 3-4 on first and second, and a 4-2 on 3rd downs. It's an attacking defense and he blitzed a lot, so if you keep Tully and Levy as the inside in 3-4 set, and use Ansah and Young on the outside, with Suh/Fairley/Jones up front, you add a pass rusher, yet can mix up who goes where.

The problem he had in Cleveland is much the same problem Gunny had when after the previous regime. Marinelli built the personnel for the Tampa 2 with small guys, and in Cleveland Horton replaced Jauron's bend don't break 4-3. With the wrong personnel, it's always going to be tough to run your scheme. We have the people up front to run Horton's style. He was also the DB coach here in 2002-2003 as well as in Pittsburg prior to becoming Arizona's DC. I doubt you'd see much back up 30 yards off receiver and rush up and miss type coverages. We've got a lot of young corners that could use some decent coaching up. The potential of Slay, Bentley, Greene and Greenwood is there.. it's up to the coaching staff to have the players live up to it.

Also, don't forget that we ran a bit of 3-4 sets this year with Suh on the outside. More than the 2012 season. Defenses are forcing teams to play 4-2 more often with the passing what it is, so upgrading Palmer might be a higher priority if Whiz hires Horton and they want to run a 4-3 more, unless Ansah or Young are a decent fit for his style.


January 11th, 2014, 12:26 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Leo wrote:
I think it's interesting that the 4 candidates the Lions interview all run 4 of the 5 offenses that currently being used in the NFL - Chip Kelly's spread being the other one.

So if the lions want to stick to the same scheme they hire Caldwell.

If they want to switch to the west coast offense they hire Kubiak.

If they want to switch to play action ball controlled offense they hire Whisenhunt.

Munchak was the only guy ran a 'balanced offense' what ever that is - shouldn't matter he interviewing to be Texans line coach a job he better suited for anyway.

I think Whisenunt's offense best suits Stafford's skill set. I'm not in favor of being back the same scheme - I think would rather have the WCO.


Pardon my ignorance, but I have a few questions. Is Kubiak's a traditional WCO? I thought that zone blocking was a big part of it--is that just a twist on the WCO?

Also, where does the 'timing offense' run by Norv Turner and Mike Martz fit into these styles (I know that neither is currently a coach or coordinator)?


Kubiak is under Shanahan's branch of the WCO yes. It added the zone blocking scheme so relied on the running game more. Walsh's initial WCO was the short controlled passing game to open up the field. Pass to setup the run. Shanahan's version just made the running game more reliable, but it was the same overall style.

I've always thought Norv's system was a dummies guide to football version of offense. The timing takes the thought out of it, so even an average QB can run it. Problem is it becomes easier for defenses to figure it out also.

Martz was just a always attack offense. But like the run and shoot, wildcat and read option offenses, they're successful because they're new, and once figured out become easily neutralized.

I think if you look at the failures at some of these, it's been when they either didn't have the personnel to run their offense effectively (Whiz's QB's) or they become too set in their scheme that they can't adjust accordingly (Norv, Kubiak and Martz) when defenses matchup with and counter their system.


January 11th, 2014, 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
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Also, where does the 'timing offense' run by Norv Turner and Mike Martz fit into these styles


Martz and Turner both run different versions of the Air Coryell offense (Turner's is more running based) the same one the Lions and Ravens run. Why was the Lions offense so horrible the second half of the season? The timing was off between Stafford and the receivers - since the entire passing game is predicated on timing and rhythm which is achieved with repletion and coaching in practice - picking up receivers off the waiver wire or not practicing all week will throw off the timing and rhythm of this offense. Teams also no longer felt the need to double and triple an injured Calvin Johnson that allowed them mix up coverages and blitz more.

The Panthers, Chargers and Bears all went away from the Air Coryell System this past season. Though not as 'explosive' - side effects of this were lower interception totals, higher completion percentages, lower sack totals and in some cases the playoffs.

In case you can't tell I'm 100% against hiring Jim Caldwell - as good as Peyton Manning was in the Colts Air Coryell offense he is even better in the Broncos' system the same one Ken Whisenhunt (100% in favor of) runs with Chargers the same one as the Broncos, Panthers, Giants, Steelers and Patriots run.

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January 11th, 2014, 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Coaching Candidates
With the Chargers out, whats the chances the Lions push for Whisenhunt now?

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January 12th, 2014, 10:04 pm
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