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 Stafford's Contract 
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
thelomasbrowns wrote:
My brother-in-law is a Seattle fan and he was absolutely shocked to see Durham starting at WR for us.



yet there are total fools on this website who think durham is good...so is pettigrew.....they will have you believe big fumbles by bell and bush didnt contribute to losses...dropped ball by calvin johnson turning into INTs inside the 5 yard line did NOT directly result in a loss. angry fools with an agenda simplify things to match there intelligence level. no big deal...


January 9th, 2014, 7:00 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
The Legend wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
My brother-in-law is a Seattle fan and he was absolutely shocked to see Durham starting at WR for us.



yet there are total fools on this website who think durham is good...so is pettigrew.....they will have you believe big fumbles by bell and bush didnt contribute to losses...dropped ball by calvin johnson turning into INTs inside the 5 yard line did NOT directly result in a loss. angry fools with an agenda simplify things to match there intelligence level. no big deal...


What were the Lions options beyond Durham? Did anyone else in the receiving corps outplay him? No. I don't blame Durham for being the player he is, I blame the front office and coaching staff for not finding better options. I blame Schwartz for deciding to waive Matt Willis and keep Durham. That was one of my biggest complaints after those final cuts.

However, once those decisions were made and Durham was on the roster, you have to move on, right? Durham didn't light the world on fire, and he should be no better than a fourth or fifth receiver on ANY squad, talent wise. But with Burleson and Broyles gone, who was left to step up? Ogletree never made an impact, neither did anyone else.

Place the blame where it belongs. In this case, you don't blame the player for playing to his potential. That's what Durham did. He wasn't going to play as well as an NFL second receiver should.

As for Pettigrew, he's a good blocker. That's what most people say. I don't see anyone talking about how great a receiver he is. And the fact is, the Lions need to take a close look at whether they even want to make him an offer. It will all depend on the new coach and what they expect from the TE position. With Whisenhunt, his offenses in Arizona never demanded much receiving need from that position. However, now that he's in San Diego, he's modified his offense so that they get production from the TE position, given the talent they have there. It's why I like Whiz as our new coach (hopefully). It seems he can make those changes to fit the personnel, rather than the other way around. If he does take the job here, I don't think the Lions are going to make Pettigrew an offer he will accept. I think he's going to want to be one of the higher paid TEs in the league, and there's no way he's entitled to a contract like that.

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January 10th, 2014, 12:14 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
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Overpaid or not, what other option are there out there this year? The top 5 qb's will most likely be gone by #10, and the #5 has a busted ACL. Free Agent options? He's cheap on the cap for the first 3 years, and the guaranteed money was the average. No one's going to get less.

The key thing with Stafford is he's 25, which is still younger than some of the guys still on their rookie contracts. It's why the emphasis is on an offensive coach with QB experience. He can be coached up. And they have 2 more seasons to do it, or they'll cut the final 2 years and draft a replacement.


Wow somebody who gets it - I guess the rest of you are missing the point all starting QB in the NFL are ALL overpaid! Only journeyman/backup types or rookies are not. Stafford's contract could be so much worse than it is - just look at what Cutler just signed for.

Stafford through the first half of the season was top 10 or top 5 QB in all categories. But the Lions offense is centered around Calvin Johnson not Matt Stafford.

It became apparent the CJ was hurt and no longer requiring double and triple teams. Teams were able to sit back in zone and take away Stafford's passing lanes. For some reason the coaches never adjusted the game plan and continued to have him throw the ball into coverage - I'm pretty sure this the #1 reason LInehan got fired the same day as Schwartz.

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January 11th, 2014, 10:28 am
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
The Legend wrote:
yet there are total fools on this website who think durham is good...so is pettigrew.....they will have you believe big fumbles by bell and bush didnt contribute to losses...dropped ball by calvin johnson turning into INTs inside the 5 yard line did NOT directly result in a loss. angry fools with an agenda simplify things to match there intelligence level. no big deal...


Are these the same total fools that ignore the great catches on poorly thrown balls? Maybe it is the total fools that ignore the diving grab (by Durham) of the overthrown ball in the Dallas game that set up the pass to Calvin that allowed Stafford to make his 'awesome' dive for the game winning score. Perhaps, they are the total fools that ignore the play by Durham that saved a pick 6 on a poorly thrown ball by Stafford? Most certainly they have to be the total fools with an agenda that ignored the simple fact that Stafford threw moving backwards, and off his back foot, floating the ball, making Calvin wait, giving the safety time to recover and hit Calvin as the ball arrived, that resulted in the ball coming loose and landing in the hands of a defender that sealed the game. On a play in which the ball could have easily been thrown away and another down played. Odd, how those dropped balls and INT's through the hands of receivers were all Harrington's fault when he was here, but are now the excuses for defending Stafford.

Criticizing Stafford's play doesn't mean I'm against him. As I read the topic this has to do with his contract, a contract that pays him like a top five quarterback and he isn't a top five quarterback. All I hear about is his talent. Big deal. Think about all the talented failures that have come through the NFL. Talent and $2.00 gets you a cup of coffee. Talent doesn't make you a success. Working hard, persistently striving for excellence and learning from your mistakes makes you a success. What is different about Stafford since he came into the league? He knows the playbook now and he is better at reading pro defenses. That is about it. Mayhew asserts Stafford was great in 2011, but that isn't true. Stafford hasn't changed. Mayhew claims Schwartz didn't develop Stafford, yet Mayhew rewarded Stafford with a massive, guaranteed contract like he had developed. Stafford hasn't regressed. It is how he has played throughout his career. That contract now shackles this team. You can argue that Calvin's contract is worse because he is 'just a receiver', but I will point out that this team suffered as Calvin's injures limited him and even more so when he was out of the game. If Stafford was the quarterback his supporters claim, and Mayhew paid for, that shouldn't have happened to nearly the degree it did.

Stafford now has tens of millions of guaranteed reasons to keep on keeping on. He is 25 and been allowed to do what he has been doing because the coaching staffs at all levels have been so desperate to have his talent on the field that they were willing to put up with the mistakes. Stafford is inconsistent and he is like that because he has gotten away with doing things this way because he does have so much talent. Yet, if the quarterback, the leader of the offense, is inconsistent, how do you expect the offense, and the team, to perform consistently?


January 11th, 2014, 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
Leo wrote:
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Overpaid or not, what other option are there out there this year? The top 5 qb's will most likely be gone by #10, and the #5 has a busted ACL. Free Agent options? He's cheap on the cap for the first 3 years, and the guaranteed money was the average. No one's going to get less.

The key thing with Stafford is he's 25, which is still younger than some of the guys still on their rookie contracts. It's why the emphasis is on an offensive coach with QB experience. He can be coached up. And they have 2 more seasons to do it, or they'll cut the final 2 years and draft a replacement.


Wow somebody who gets it - I guess the rest of you are missing the point all starting QB in the NFL are ALL overpaid! Only journeyman/backup types or rookies are not. Stafford's contract could be so much worse than it is - just look at what Cutler just signed for.

Stafford through the first half of the season was top 10 or top 5 QB in all categories. But the Lions offense is centered around Calvin Johnson not Matt Stafford.

It became apparent the CJ was hurt and no longer requiring double and triple teams. Teams were able to sit back in zone and take away Stafford's passing lanes. For some reason the coaches never adjusted the game plan and continued to have him throw the ball into coverage - I'm pretty sure this the #1 reason LInehan got fired the same day as Schwartz.


That bolded statement is ridiculous. Calvin can't do a damn thing unless he's got a QB who can get him the ball. EVERY NFL OFFENSE is centered around the QB. Even Minnesota, who has the best RB in the league still needs to have a QB that runs the offense efficiently so that a defense can't simply stack against Peterson. The quarterback is the focal point of every offense in the NFL, and THAT is why they get paid more money than every other position on the field. They touch the ball nearly every snap, and without them being able to make the handoffs, throws and calls necessary to beat the defense, the offense goes nowhere.

Coaches don't choose for the quarterback to throw into coverage, that is the quarterbacks choice. It is the quarterback who reads the coverages on the field, and it is the quarterback throwing the ball to the open (or not) receiver. They choose the trajectory, the speed and even the distance of the ball travel. Other teams face zone coverage and succeed. It comes down to the play of the quarterback. You can have a great game plan, but without a QB who can execute it, your offense is dead in the water. I agree that the Lions offense needed to make adjustments, and that is the reason Linehan was given the boot. But he also got booted for not demanding more from his QB, and for wanting to give him a hug rather than a kick in the butt.

Make all the excuses you want, but it's no coincidence that when Stafford's play declined considerably in the second half of the season, the team went with him.

The Lions won't be parting ways with Stafford. They have him included in the interview process for the new coach, and his contract guarantees him too much money for them to swallow. The issues with Stafford are entirely fixable. Getting him some receivers other than Calvin to throw to is important for the offense, regardless of who the coaches are.

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January 11th, 2014, 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
Jafo wrote:
The Legend wrote:
yet there are total fools on this website who think durham is good...so is pettigrew.....they will have you believe big fumbles by bell and bush didnt contribute to losses...dropped ball by calvin johnson turning into INTs inside the 5 yard line did NOT directly result in a loss. angry fools with an agenda simplify things to match there intelligence level. no big deal...


Are these the same total fools that ignore the great catches on poorly thrown balls? Maybe it is the total fools that ignore the diving grab (by Durham) of the overthrown ball in the Dallas game that set up the pass to Calvin that allowed Stafford to make his 'awesome' dive for the game winning score. Perhaps, they are the total fools that ignore the play by Durham that saved a pick 6 on a poorly thrown ball by Stafford? Most certainly they have to be the total fools with an agenda that ignored the simple fact that Stafford threw moving backwards, and off his back foot, floating the ball, making Calvin wait, giving the safety time to recover and hit Calvin as the ball arrived, that resulted in the ball coming loose and landing in the hands of a defender that sealed the game. On a play in which the ball could have easily been thrown away and another down played. Odd, how those dropped balls and INT's through the hands of receivers were all Harrington's fault when he was here, but are now the excuses for defending Stafford.

Criticizing Stafford's play doesn't mean I'm against him. As I read the topic this has to do with his contract, a contract that pays him like a top five quarterback and he isn't a top five quarterback. All I hear about is his talent. Big deal. Think about all the talented failures that have come through the NFL. Talent and $2.00 gets you a cup of coffee. Talent doesn't make you a success. Working hard, persistently striving for excellence and learning from your mistakes makes you a success. What is different about Stafford since he came into the league? He knows the playbook now and he is better at reading pro defenses. That is about it. Mayhew asserts Stafford was great in 2011, but that isn't true. Stafford hasn't changed. Mayhew claims Schwartz didn't develop Stafford, yet Mayhew rewarded Stafford with a massive, guaranteed contract like he had developed. Stafford hasn't regressed. It is how he has played throughout his career. That contract now shackles this team. You can argue that Calvin's contract is worse because he is 'just a receiver', but I will point out that this team suffered as Calvin's injures limited him and even more so when he was out of the game. If Stafford was the quarterback his supporters claim, and Mayhew paid for, that shouldn't have happened to nearly the degree it did.

Stafford now has tens of millions of guaranteed reasons to keep on keeping on. He is 25 and been allowed to do what he has been doing because the coaching staffs at all levels have been so desperate to have his talent on the field that they were willing to put up with the mistakes. Stafford is inconsistent and he is like that because he has gotten away with doing things this way because he does have so much talent. Yet, if the quarterback, the leader of the offense, is inconsistent, how do you expect the offense, and the team, to perform consistently?


Talent and $2.00 gets you $53 million dollars and a cup of coffee in the NFL. No one knows how a player is going to perform from year to year. They are paid on talent, potential, past performance, and a gamble on future performances. Stafford being "overpaid" is irrelevant because he's a product of the old rookie deals and his extension was the only viable option the Lions had at the time. Releasing him would have been the most moronic move in history and when signing him to an extension they had to somehow work in the money he was already owed. They found a way to spread out their losses by extending him and in 2016 they can release him and move on with only 10M in dead money and saving 10M from his 20M cap hit that year. Stafford is half the reason the team is even relevant right now, so even if he never truly becomes elite or a top 5 QB he's still been worth the money they are giving him because he's given them more of a chance than they have managed to get in previous decades.


January 11th, 2014, 2:49 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
Here's the deal, Stafford has work to do and a lot of it has to do with his footwork and making sure he keeps a solid base underneath him. But with that said Stafford is getting basically what every starting QB with top notch potential is either making or will be making. Has anybody that is looking for Stafford's head seen Flacco's career numbers? The only difference between the two of them is Flacco along with the Raven's defense and running game got hot for a four game stretch. If the Ravens blew that Super Bowl and Flacco signs his deal making him the highest paid player in the league how many more people are looking at his deal and shaking their heads? Flacco's numbers look more like a career journeyman than the guy signing a record contract, but a team gets hots and a Bronco S blows his deep coverage responsibility and Flacco is a great QB.

At the end of the day the QBs get too much praise, too much blame, and too much money and nothing is going to change. Tom Brady is easily in the top five of all time greats yet how many Super Bowls has he won since he started chucking the rock all over the place and putting up video game numbers? His greatness and three Super Bowl wins were built on a strong defense and a ball control offense. If anybody thinks they can go down to the five and dime and just pick up a QB that is better than Stafford then be my guess. As soon as that happens there will be about 16 teams jockeying for position to sign him.

I get just about as frustrated as those that have hated Stafford since the day the Lions drafted him and have been looking for and jumping on any opportunity to throw him under the bus. However I also know guys with his ability don't come along every day. As much as I can't deal with him and his sloppy footwork and how it leads to so many poor throws I also can't blame him for being drafted before rookie contracts were reigned in. I can't wait to see what the Redskins, Colts, Seahawks, and 49ers are going to do when the chickens come home to roost and those QBs are going to have to get paid.


January 11th, 2014, 11:31 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
jrd66 wrote:
That's pretty fair. I get exasperated when the $90M QB throws it just high and wide enough for the TE to extend and deflect the pass for a pick six, but I also get equally annoyed when the $134M WR fumbles away a sure catch at the end of the game for a pick to seal the loss. When the QB is struggling with confidence, the HOF WR has to make those catches when the ball is delivered in essentially the perfect spot. Stafford played like crap in the last 5 games say. CJ didn't help him out when the ball was delivered on at least 3 separate occasions. Folks still want to run Pettigrew out of town for the same things. Bush and Bell each had more fumbles this year than Sanders probably had in his career. I personally think the Tampa game was a big deal. I think that might be when Stafford might have lost his edge. He didn't play well overall in that game, but when the chips were all in he made key throws on target to get it done. Durham's bizzaro magical fumble and CJ's non-catch sealed the deal. I don't think he was the same after that.
Stafford needs to play better, by a lot. He's not the only one.

well said. i think CJ is getting too much of a pass for his putrid play after the 2nd CHI game. But i think coaching failed Stafford and he will become a great QB, he just needs to grow up. I do curse Stafford however, whenever durham screws up because he has absolutely no business playing in the NFL but stafford lobbied for a guy who is 6'6 and never catches jump balls because he shared a bathroom with the guy.

but stafford was the 2nd to last #1 pick to get the giant rookie contract, he got a hefty extension last year and will probably get another huge deal when he's 28-29. Stafford has a very realistic chance to make more money than anyone in NFL history. Lets just hope we get the right people around him to bring out the best in him.

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January 12th, 2014, 7:12 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
Killwill25 wrote:
But i think coaching failed Stafford and he will become a great QB, he just needs to grow up.


I agree with this 100%. There was a press conference after one of the last games in the season, and the reporters pressed Stafford on what he could do to avoid turnovers and improve. He kept saying "I don't know." He couldn't even muster a "I'll go back and look at the tape" or "I have to work on my fundamentals." IMO if one of your key players doesn't know how he can improve, you've failed as a coach.

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January 12th, 2014, 10:38 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
But i think coaching failed Stafford and he will become a great QB, he just needs to grow up.


I agree with this 100%. There was a press conference after one of the last games in the season, and the reporters pressed Stafford on what he could do to avoid turnovers and improve. He kept saying "I don't know." He couldn't even muster a "I'll go back and look at the tape" or "I have to work on my fundamentals." IMO if one of your key players doesn't know how he can improve, you've failed as a coach.


That also shows a lot of frustration if he can't even reflect on what went wrong during the game. A good QB focused HC/OC or legit QB coach could have a good calming effect on him and maybe give him the support he needs to have better decision making during a game.


January 13th, 2014, 11:30 am
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
But i think coaching failed Stafford and he will become a great QB, he just needs to grow up.


I agree with this 100%. There was a press conference after one of the last games in the season, and the reporters pressed Stafford on what he could do to avoid turnovers and improve. He kept saying "I don't know." He couldn't even muster a "I'll go back and look at the tape" or "I have to work on my fundamentals." IMO if one of your key players doesn't know how he can improve, you've failed as a coach.


That also shows he was coddled, and wasn't held accountable by the coaching staff. Those are all questions the coaching staff should have been asking him, and demanding answers to, beyond his 'I don't know' response. This is supposed to be a team leader, and he's acting like a puppy who just peed the floor, with his tail between his legs and his head hung low.

He needs a dose of guts.

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January 13th, 2014, 10:25 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
m2karateman wrote:
thelomasbrowns wrote:
Killwill25 wrote:
But i think coaching failed Stafford and he will become a great QB, he just needs to grow up.


I agree with this 100%. There was a press conference after one of the last games in the season, and the reporters pressed Stafford on what he could do to avoid turnovers and improve. He kept saying "I don't know." He couldn't even muster a "I'll go back and look at the tape" or "I have to work on my fundamentals." IMO if one of your key players doesn't know how he can improve, you've failed as a coach.


That also shows he was coddled, and wasn't held accountable by the coaching staff. Those are all questions the coaching staff should have been asking him, and demanding answers to, beyond his 'I don't know' response. This is supposed to be a team leader, and he's acting like a puppy who just peed the floor, with his tail between his legs and his head hung low.

He needs a dose of guts.


Time out. This make no sense to me.

Stafford has no guts?

Stafford now plays with no fear of making a mistake. He makes plays where I think the guy must have brass balls for attempting that throw. You seem to have decided that this loose play is due to the staff coddling him. I know as little about what was said to them as you do but my guess is that he had license to take those chances. They got picks from some of those risky throws and got touchdowns and completions on some others. In any case, I think you want him to pass on those risky throws and not take those chances thereby protecting the ball. You sound like want him to play with the fear of being yanked if he turns the ball over. We had that scenario with Joey and Mooch. You need to make plays without risking anything. That doesn't always work so well.

I thought Trent Dilfer recently summed up very well what needs to happen with our boy Matt. I could give a rats rectum if he gives good answers to the reporter who's asking him questions. Find a way to take better care of the ball without going into a shell and losing out on the extra stuff that he can bring to the game in certain spots. I personally don't want him playing scared, but I want a better sense of when not to take the risk.

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January 13th, 2014, 11:36 pm
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Post Re: Stafford's Contract
jrd66 wrote:
Time out. This make no sense to me.

Stafford has no guts?

Stafford now plays with no fear of making a mistake. He makes plays where I think the guy must have brass balls for attempting that throw. You seem to have decided that this loose play is due to the staff coddling him. I know as little about what was said to them as you do but my guess is that he had license to take those chances. They got picks from some of those risky throws and got touchdowns and completions on some others. In any case, I think you want him to pass on those risky throws and not take those chances thereby protecting the ball. You sound like want him to play with the fear of being yanked if he turns the ball over. We had that scenario with Joey and Mooch. You need to make plays without risking anything. That doesn't always work so well.

I thought Trent Dilfer recently summed up very well what needs to happen with our boy Matt. I could give a rats rectum if he gives good answers to the reporter who's asking him questions. Find a way to take better care of the ball without going into a shell and losing out on the extra stuff that he can bring to the game in certain spots. I personally don't want him playing scared, but I want a better sense of when not to take the risk.


Yes, guts. It takes guts to admit your mistakes, not pass them off on someone else or say 'I don't know' what went wrong. Courage isn't the absence of fear, it is the ability to overcome that fear. Not being afraid of making a mistake doesn't excuse you for making that mistake over and over again. Einstein's definition of insanity. Simply because Stafford believes he can throw a ball into traffic and make the play doesn't mean that he should. And when it mattered most this season, he attempted those passes far too often than he should have, and it cost the team. He wasn't held accountable by the coaching staff for making those mistakes, over and over again. Are you happy with those results? Somewhere down the line, the mistakes have to be punished, and not rewarded with the continued pat on the back and being handed the game ball to go out and make them all over again.

Having a modicum of fear is a good thing. Stafford SHOULD be playing with one eye over his shoulder, and he SHOULD be aware that his mistakes won't be tolerated over and over. He was coddled this year, flat out. He should have never been given as much slack to screw up as much as he did. He should have been pulled, a number of times. Not necessarily because of the picks he threw, but often times because of the throws he shouldn't have made or weren't able to make. He lost his confidence in the second half of the season, and was forcing the ball when he shouldn't have been. That doesn't take guts to do. It takes stupidity, it takes foolishness, and it takes being spoiled.

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January 14th, 2014, 12:01 am
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